The "RIGHT TO WORSHIP" differs from RELIGIOUS FREEDOM

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    Sep 29, 2015 3:51 PM GMT
    these words are much more than a distinction w/o a difference; it restricts citizens to do what they may with in the 4 walls a government sanctioned house of worship and only for specific times & events. Out side they are just another peep.

    The constitution uses the words "Right to Worship" but no one has additional religious freedoms. For example no god given right to refuse/ restrict public services. Churches have branched out as religious corporations and now want to protect their investment$.

    civic law trumps all higher powers; people can not select which laws apply to them.

    The religious citizens are not a protected class and possess no additional freedoms other than the Right to Worship like everyone...

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    Sep 29, 2015 4:05 PM GMT
    So Muhammad Ali should have been drafted despite his beliefs?
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    Sep 29, 2015 6:11 PM GMT
    everyone has a belief system:
    Dick Cheney and George Bush and Bill Clinton and Al Gore all dodged the draft. Any way law of the land he and all these people and more got off. Being stupid or poor made you 2x as likely to serve.

    About 2 million served in combat.
    This was life 50 years ago.
    Some means of draft avoidance:
    gay
    health
    married
    college student
    farmers were usually exempt


    Ali initially registered for the draft 1964, he failed the literacy test, and thus wasn't required to register. Too bad, in 1966 the draft standards were lowered, and he became eligible.


    on the other side do you really want your self and gay men go to the back of the bus?
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    Sep 29, 2015 6:35 PM GMT
    Our Founding Fathers wanted religious freedom to be more than a right to worship.
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    Sep 29, 2015 7:48 PM GMT
    libertpaulian saidOur Founding Fathers wanted religious freedom to be more than a right to worship.



    NO, they did not, trouble with right wing lunatics is they tend to "interpret" everything that is vague, much like their propaganda and spin news channel, to make it sound favorable when they refuse to separate their religion from state, their interpretation gives them 'reason' to exist. Founding fathers made sure, and clear, that anyone's religion, that they are free to examine and practice, cannot be imposed upon anyone else, that everyone's religion is separate from government interference or vise versa. The current problem is religion(s) role in everything else that is not government related (aka Kim Davis), such as private employment. (aka Hobby Lobby).

    "religion cannot be imposed upon anyone else", if our system would just stick to this as law of the land, then regardless of government entities or private employers, it would apply to all.


    ELNathB said
    Boehner departure blamed on "conservative extremists" "christian terrorists"
    http://news.yahoo.com/video/boehner-departure-blamed-conservative-extremists-052921702.html





    Yes, separation as recommended and required icon_smile.gif
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    “If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”

    ~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789




    “Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.”

    ~Founding Father George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792




    “The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.”

    ~John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” 1787-1788




    “Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”

    ~Founding Father John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” (1787-8icon_cool.gif




    “We should begin by setting conscience free. When all men of all religions shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance for honors and power we may expect that improvements will be made in the human character and the state of society.”

    ~Founding Father John Adams, letter to Dr. Price, April 8, 1785


    “When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, it’s a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”

    ~Founding Father Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780




    “In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.”

    ~Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists (1771)


    “In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.”

    ~Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists (1771)




    “A man of abilities and character, of any sect whatever, may be admitted to any office or public trust under the United States. I am a friend to a variety of sects, because they keep one another in order. How many different sects are we composed of throughout the United States? How many different sects will be in congress? We cannot enumerate the sects that may be in congress. And there are so many now in the United States that they will prevent the establishment of any one sect in prejudice to the rest, and will forever oppose all attempts to infringe religious liberty. If such an attempt be made, will not the alarm be sounded throughout America? If congress be as wicked as we are foretold they will, they would not run the risk of exciting the resentment of all, or most of the religious sects in America.”

    ~Founding Father Edmund Randolph, address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 10, 1788




    “No religious doctrine shall be established by law.”

    ~Founding Father Elbridge Gerry, Annals of Congress 1:729-731




    “Knowledge and liberty are so prevalent in this country, that I do not believe that the United States would ever be disposed to establish one religious sect, and lay all others under legal disabilities. But as we know not what may take place hereafter, and any such test would be exceedingly injurious to the rights of free citizens, I cannot think it altogether superfluous to have added a clause, which secures us from the possibility of such oppression.”

    ~Founding Father Oliver Wolcott, Connecticut Ratifying Convention, 9 January 1788



    “Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”

    ~Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man, 1791


    “God has appointed two kinds of government in the world, which are distinct in their nature, and ought never to be confounded together; one of which is called civil, the other ecclesiastical government.”

    ~Founding Father Isaac Backus, An Appeal to the Public for Religious Liberty, 1773


    “Congress has no power to make any religious establishments.”

    ~Founding Father Roger Sherman, Congress, August 19, 1789


    “The American states have gone far in assisting the progress of truth; but they have stopped short of perfection. They ought to have given every honest citizen an equal right to enjoy his religion and an equal title to all civil emoluments, without obliging him to tell his religion. Every interference of the civil power in regulating opinion, is an impious attempt to take the business of the Deity out of his own hands; and every preference given to any religious denomination, is so far slavery and bi
  • tj85016

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    Sep 29, 2015 10:35 PM GMT
    libertpaulian saidSo Muhammad Ali should have been drafted despite his beliefs?


    nah, muslims don't shoot Vietnamese, they primarily shoot each other (for some idiotic reason that is beyond me)
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    Sep 30, 2015 3:47 PM GMT
    The only worship I do is "muscle worship" and I do/follow it very religiously.icon_redface.gif

    And yes. It's a right. No questions asked.
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    Sep 30, 2015 5:05 PM GMT
    libertpaulian saidSo Muhammad Ali should have been drafted despite his beliefs?


    Not only SHOULD he have been: he WAS drafted: he simply appealed the induction, and even showed up to his induction and got arrested in protest. There is no religious registry the government is supposed to keep before deciding who's eligible to draft.

    What Ali SHOULD have been, however, was granted status as a Conscientious Objector (which allows for much more than merely religious objections). The reasons the local draft board denied him CO status had to do with much more than his "deeply-held" religious beliefs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_v._United_States
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    Sep 30, 2015 5:30 PM GMT
    had nothing to do with religion:
    not a lot of positive sentiment for the war back then ~50 years ago.
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    Sep 30, 2015 9:10 PM GMT
    libertpaulian saidSo Muhammad Ali should have been drafted despite his beliefs?


    "The religious citizens are not a protected class and possess no additional freedoms other than the Right to Worship like everyone..."

    And during the years of prohibition, weren't Christian churches allowed to use wine in its services? Sounds protected to me.

    "...alcoholic beverages for medicinal and sacramental use were exempt under the Volstead Act, which allowed many people to avoid the spirit of the law."
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    Oct 01, 2015 3:04 PM GMT
    libertpaulian saidOur Founding Fathers wanted religious freedom to be more than a right to worship.
    that was like 200-300 years ago. None this was even invented back than. Tho better than quoting a bible passage.


    bottom line:
    religious freedom thingy insures they can continue to maintain their exposed corporate investment$ that exist in the public sector with out modification.