Frustration, Hesitation & Butterflies?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 01, 2015 10:49 AM GMT
    Hi everyone,

    I'm new here and also to the gay community. I came out on the 2nd of June this year (I'm 24 years of age). I find myself in a conflicting position regarding a guy I have been speaking to online for just over a week now. When we first began chatting online he had asked me how many guys I had been with so I told him that I'm "new" and that I had only been with one guy but for less than a month as we just didn't "click".

    Before I get to the matter at hand I would just like to give you all an idea of the kind of person that I am. I'm looking for long term relationships and hopefully even life long. I was brought up "old school" so I have a strong moral compass regarding sex and how I go about it. I'm also spiritual so I like to get to know the person and who they are over time and then see where it leads therefore, I don't just jump into bed with random guys.

    Here's my problem: I asked this guy that I have been chatting to how many guys he's been with and was rather shocked at the number and also disappointed. He told me that he's had 10 to 15 flings and 4 long term relationships (he's 25 years of age). We continued chatting throughout the week but this bothered me greatly and made me sad. Although to me that's a lot of "flings" I was somewhat ok with that as growing up in high school the kids do that. He ends up telling me that he's on good terms with all of his ex's and this concerned me so I asked how.

    Ex No 1: Lives/Works overseas (that's fine)

    Ex No 2: Had children and was a lot older than him and it was causing problems. (this freaked me out) - No offence intended to readers that may be older.

    Ex No 3: Had HIV but they dated for 2 years and used protection etc (This was weird but at the same time commendable as I thought it interesting that he accepted this guy even though he was ill)

    Ex No 4: Friend since high school and also a "fuck buddy" on and off for years (this was highly disappointing for me and I felt grossed out that he's so casual about his sexuality)

    So since I found out about this I've been hesitant to accept this guy as I don't feel I can trust him and my heart feels funny. At the same time I get excited when I chat to him and get butterflies but his past concerns me greatly. We also have a lot of disagreements and we haven't even met.

    Last night we had another confrontation where he went about saying that he wouldn't change his past and that he cant cut the people that he loves out of his life cause he is not like that (referring to his "fuck buddy" to whom he is still friends).

    I don't know why I like him or why I get butterflies but I need guidance on this. I'm very hesitant and I don't like his past, do I already have my answer?


    "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, your my only hope..."
  • transient

    Posts: 198

    Oct 01, 2015 1:47 PM GMT
    If you have doubts after talking online for a few weeks, just walk away.

    If you have butterflys its because you and this guy have conflicting ideas over morality.

    He isnt wrong for his ideas, neither are you.

    But if you have waited 24 years and are sincere in searching for commitment, just pass this guy by..............
    OR
    just have fun with him - your first 'fling'.

    I think this is the only choice.

    You are not going to change him...... so you take him as he is, or not at all.

    Hope that helps?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 01, 2015 1:57 PM GMT
    Yeah I guess you're right, I think it will cause problems down the line. I don't want to be another number to him, think im worth more than that.
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 872

    Oct 01, 2015 2:56 PM GMT
    You may also want to revise your idea about male sexuality.

    So, you are 'old school', have a strong moral compass when it comes to having sex with other guys, etc.

    Fine. This is who you are. So far, the other dudes around have been having fun, making friends, having sex, sometimes falling in love, experiencing life on their own terms. Sure, with all of is ups and downs, too.

    You are 24, 'new', and basically wondering why is it that you are getting butterflies, and all, but are not willing to act on your desires?

    Spend some time thinking this over. Aren't your 'old school morals' really anything else but a heteronormative concept that you are unsuccessfully trying to import into the gay world?

    Remember, it is your life, and you are calling the shots. If you want to stick to your guns, by all means...

    Yet, we all know that if you keep on doing the same thing, the chances are that the results will always be the same.

    If you decide to swim in gay waters you may as well want to understand the basic rules of engagement.

    #1
    By far, most of the dudes you'll ever meet have a history: a HS buddy, a FwB, a lover, an Ex, and any number of NSA hookups. This comes with the territory. You may not really like it, but this is how it is.

    #2
    Great relations are not found but rather carefully built over the time. Experience is a major construction material of the relationships that so many gay men seek, and so few really understand. Two clueless guys stand a lesser chance of creating something meaningful than two experienced dudes who have been around the block for more than couple of times, and have deep understanding of how m2m relationships function.

    #3
    Gay world is a very transient world. The fact that you wish to practice great restraint, use your moral compass, deny yourself the pleasures of NSA sex, is all good and fine for you. It really does not touch anyone else in the gay world, and very few people will find your personal attitude to be a great asset in building a meaningful and happy relationship.

    #4
    And last but not least, m2m sexuality is mostly (not always), just what the word says, 'sexuality'. It does usually involve couple of guys who are trying to get their rocks off, and have some fun in the process of doing so. If the fun is great, the chances are that they may want to go for the seconds and the thirds, and see if they can work out some kind of a more permanent arrangement out of it, if other basic issues seem to work fine, too.

    Male sexuality is rooted in the idea that having sex with other males does not involve any further commitments per se, unless the guys involved wish to create them. This is the point where your mostly heteronormative view of the things shows its incompatibility with the gay world. Typically, girls would want some commitment, some romance, some assurance of the long-term viability of your relationship before they agree to go as far as to play between the sheets. Typically, gay men first want to see if the sex part works for them before they even start thinking about the longevity of their relationships, the new home, and the new, proverbial curtains, if it gets that far.

    SC


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 01, 2015 3:11 PM GMT
    SilverRRCloud saidYou may also want to revise your idea about male sexuality.

    So, you are 'old school', have a strong moral compass when it comes to having sex with other guys, etc.

    Fine. This is who you are. So far, the other dudes around have been having fun, making friends, having sex, sometimes falling in love, experiencing life on their own terms. Sure, with all of is ups and downs, too.

    You are 24, 'new', and basically wondering why is it that you are getting butterflies, and all, but are not willing to act on your desires?

    Spend some time thinking this over. Aren't your 'old school morals' really anything else but a heteronormative concept that you are unsuccessfully trying to import into the gay world?

    Remember, it is your life, and you are calling the shots. If you want to stick to your guns, by all means...

    Yet, we all know that if you keep on doing the same thing, the chances are that the results will always be the same.

    If you decide to swim in gay waters you may as well want to understand the basic rules of engagement.

    #1
    By far, most of the dudes you'll ever meet have a history: a HS buddy, a FwB, a lover, an Ex, and any number of NSA hookups. This comes with the territory. You may not really like it, but this is how it is.

    #2
    Great relations are not found but rather carefully built over the time. Experience is a major construction material of the relationships that so many gay men seek, and so few really understand. Two clueless guys stand a lesser chance of creating something meaningful than two experienced dudes who have been around the block for more than couple of times, and have deep understanding of how m2m relationships function.

    #3
    Gay world is a very transient world. The fact that you wish to practice great restraint, use your moral compass, deny yourself the pleasures of NSA sex, is all good and fine for you. It really does not touch anyone else in the gay world, and very few people will find your personal attitude to be a great asset in building a meaningful and happy relationship.

    #4
    And last but not least, m2m sexuality is mostly (not always), just what the word says, 'sexuality'. It does usually involve couple of guys who are trying to get their rocks off, and have some fun in the process of doing so. If the fun is great, the chances are that they may want to go for the seconds and the thirds, and see if they can work out some kind of a more permanent arrangement out of it, if other basic issues seem to work fine, too.

    Male sexuality is rooted in the idea that having sex with other males does not involve any further commitments per se, unless the guys involved wish to create them. This is the point where your mostly heteronormative view of the things shows its incompatibility with the gay world. Typically, girls would want some commitment, some romance, some assurance of the long-term viability of your relationship before they agree to go as far as to play between the sheets. Typically, gay men first want to see if the sex part works for them before they even start thinking about the longevity of their relationships, the new home, and the new, proverbial curtains, if it gets that far.

    SC



    THANK YOU for this! I needed this because I was (and still am) feeling the same way as the OP. This has given me a greater understanding into the gay male mindset of relationships. It's scary as f*ck to put yourself out there like that, though.
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    Oct 01, 2015 3:23 PM GMT
    SciFiDude3 said...I would just like to give you all an idea of the kind of person that I am. I'm looking for long term relationships and hopefully even life long. I was brought up "old school" so I have a strong moral compass...
    buy a puppy on-line and in a week you will have a functional companion.
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    Oct 01, 2015 3:50 PM GMT
    @SilverRRCloud

    Thank you for taking the time to read my dilemma and for taking the time to create such and informative response. I understand what you are saying but at the same time it just doesnt "feel" right you know? The life you have conveyed in your reply seems so "animalistic". I've always prided myself in knowing im more spiritually "advanced" then most of the people my age.

    The world is getting darker and thing's that where valued and cherished in years gone by are no longer held in high esteem. It's just that the gay community in general from my perspective makes sex into a cheap thrill which is something I cannot understand. I guess I don't want to fall with the rest of humanity?


    Hm, once again I do understand what you are saying though.
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    Oct 01, 2015 3:51 PM GMT
    pellaz said
    SciFiDude3 said...I would just like to give you all an idea of the kind of person that I am. I'm looking for long term relationships and hopefully even life long. I was brought up "old school" so I have a strong moral compass...
    buy a puppy on-line and in a week you will have a functional companion.


    What do you mean?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 01, 2015 4:14 PM GMT
    SciFiDude3 said
    pellaz said
    SciFiDude3 said...I would just like to give you all an idea of the kind of person that I am. I'm looking for long term relationships and hopefully even life long. I was brought up "old school" so I have a strong moral compass...
    buy a puppy on-line and in a week you will have a functional companion.


    What do you mean?

    He means that what you're looking for is unrealistic and you will find exactly what you are looking for in a furry companion.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 01, 2015 4:57 PM GMT
    swimjammer said
    SciFiDude3 said
    pellaz said
    SciFiDude3 said...I would just like to give you all an idea of the kind of person that I am. I'm looking for long term relationships and hopefully even life long. I was brought up "old school" so I have a strong moral compass...
    buy a puppy on-line and in a week you will have a functional companion.


    What do you mean?

    He means that what you're looking for is unrealistic and you will find exactly what you are looking for in a furry companion.


    Wow...and here i though me wanting to go to space was more unrealistic. Apparently decent men are harder to obtain than interstellar travel it seems...

    Thanks anyway for clearing that up for me.
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 872

    Oct 01, 2015 7:57 PM GMT
    SciFiDude3 said@SilverRRCloud

    Thank you for taking the time to read my dilemma and for taking the time to create such and informative response. I understand what you are saying but at the same time it just doesnt "feel" right you know? The life you have conveyed in your reply seems so "animalistic". I've always prided myself in knowing im more spiritually "advanced" then most of the people my age.

    The world is getting darker and thing's that where valued and cherished in years gone by are no longer held in high esteem. It's just that the gay community in general from my perspective makes sex into a cheap thrill which is something I cannot understand. I guess I don't want to fall with the rest of humanity?


    Hm, once again I do understand what you are saying though.


    Evolving really means leaving your comfort zone. That is never going to feel 'right'. You have your own world of values and beliefs, and moving on will always create internal resistance.

    Sex is one of many things in our daily lives that connect us with the animal world to which we belong. The wise thing here is to embrace it, AND infuse it with your own humanity.

    Consider re-defining your own ideas of being spiritually advanced. Chastity is a simple, dysfunctional way of resolving the issue of your spirituality in sex. Ample historical evidence testifies to its dangerous dysfunctionality.

    Being one of our most basic drives, sex can be infused with spirituality, too.

    A few people do not understand the nature of the NSA, gay hookups, because they see them as cheap thrills with no real personal involvement. At times, the porn industry perpetuates this view, too.

    The reality is however, vastly different. Many of the guys who are out there trying to hook up for sex are fellow men who are at this given point of their lives simply not in a position to go through the dating process, partner selection, etc. The reasons for their position are rarely the lack of personal interest and laziness, as one may assume, but more often specific life circumstances that are imposed, and are usually beyond their control. It is only too easy to jump on the conclusion that all of these guys out there are heartless, sex-starved and sex-focused guys only, looking for some cheap thrill, though, no doubt, some are.

    Most of the people I have encountered are just men who are struggling to lead their lives, and achieve their primary goals: pass their exams, get a second job, pay their bills, move back to their hometowns after they graduate, find a better job, learn a foreign language, get promoted, etc., etc. For a period in their lives, their love life and its complexities have to take the back seat.

    If you enter their world, you'll too become a fellow traveller, who agrees not to judge those people, and agrees not to be judged by them, simply because we know too little about their circumstances, AND because they lead their lives, and their lives are not subject to our judgement.

    A guy who is cruising out there for sex is likely to simply try to go through his day. The fact that someone shows interest in him, finds him appealing and sexually attractive is very likely to be the highlight of his day. If you connect with him, you are connecting with another human being who is simply trying to satisfy his basic sexual urge. You are, most likely in a similar position, too. Your sexual union may be void of deep feelings of love and reciprocal dependency but you are still connecting with a fellow human being, and you are helping someone out, while helping yourself out, too. Bringing some light and pleasure into the lives of other guys and into your own life is usually frowned down upon by the society, religion, etc., but there is really nothing intrinsically wrong about it. Just because two people are helping each other out to face the next day, no harm is done to anyone. And, more likely than not, both guys are benefitting from it.

    SC

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 01, 2015 10:11 PM GMT
    Hm, an interesting perspective. I will think further on this matter. I have all the time I need. Thank you for your insights. I really do appreciate this.