Another Mass Shooting ... wake up U.S.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 02, 2015 10:51 AM GMT
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/02/us/obama-oregon-shooting-umpqua-community-college-gun-control.html?_r=0

    https://www.reddit.com/r/GunsAreCool/comments/3n55tl/the_guy_who_shot_up_umpqua_community_college_was/

    It seems more and more that mass shootings are becoming routine and the more frequent, it seems the more numb or "used to it" the nation is becoming.

    Enough with the whole bullshit of "how does taking guns away take away the criminal" and stop solely blaming mental health issues.
    They exist as they do in every country, yet the U.S. seems to be the only advanced country with this much needless gun violence that even now is refused a solution.

    It's obvious and factually evidenced with results in so many other countries that having less guns and more stringent gun laws ACTUALLY DO reduce the rate of mass shootings.
    It's not rocket science for crying out loud.

    What's the current insight into this matter?
    The ridiculous and extremely stupid belief that having more guns and less strict gun laws will decrease gun violence icon_eek.gif

    Please read that statement again and understand just how moronically stupid it sounds.
    Like this year alone should disprove that notion BIG TIME!

    People need to get over that fucking lame constitutional right to bear arms because people have more of a constitutional right to not be shot and killed in a mass shooting, basically being painted as targets by a law that pretty much allows anybody easy access to guns.

    I mean you go to LAX airport and you're basically treated like a terrorist criminal.
    It's horrendous and I'd say the worst airport ever but the more poignant fact is that you are so strict on catching a terrorist when what's killing most of the American people are fellow Americans.

    Not terrorists, not ISIL, nope it's your own citizens simply getting a gun and planning a mass shooting because having guns is just wayyyyyyy too important to change.

    I don't know how else to say GET A FUCKING CLUE because at this rate, you're all going to kill each other before ISIL even has a chance.

    Sorry for the harshness but at this rate and from this year alone, grace is just not going to cut it here.

    Wake the fuck up.
    /End rant.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 02, 2015 1:02 PM GMT
    Even if they changed the law now, how do you get the guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them? There are so many out there, and it's not like they expire.

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    Oct 02, 2015 1:13 PM GMT
    Your impassioned rant is much needed sir and here is the evidence to back up your claim that deaths from gun violence in America are more prevalent than deaths from terrorism in America.

    http://www.vox.com/2015/10/1/9437187/obama-guns-terrorism-deaths

    Furthermore, it is discomforting to know that attempts to research the underlying causes of gun violence is being blocked by the Republican controlled congress. As evidenced by this source and Obama's frustrations.

    http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence

    "We spent over a trillion dollars, and passed countless laws, and devote entire agencies to preventing terrorist attacks on our soil, and rightfully so" Obama said. "And yet we have a Congress that explicitly blocks us from even collecting data on how we could potentially reduce gun deaths. How can that be?"

    I also find it interesting that citizens against common sense gun control laws assert that the underlying causes are mental illnesses and not the guns but those same people are against implementing the funding needed to diagnose and treat those disorders.

    Personally, I think mental illness is often used as a scapegoat to allow policymakers and the public ignore bigger, more complicated contributors to gun violence.

    But what do I know. I am just a kid, right? icon_wink.gif*insert sarcasm*
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    Oct 02, 2015 1:24 PM GMT
    smrtnfit22 saidYour impassioned rant is much needed sir and here is the evidence to back up your claim that deaths from gun violence in America are more prevalent than deaths from terrorism in America.

    http://www.vox.com/2015/10/1/9437187/obama-guns-terrorism-deaths

    Furthermore, it is discomforting to know that attempts to research the underlying causes of gun violence is being blocked by the Republican controlled congress. As evidenced by this source and Obama's frustrations.

    http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence

    "We spent over a trillion dollars, and passed countless laws, and devote entire agencies to preventing terrorist attacks on our soil, and rightfully so" Obama said. "And yet we have a Congress that explicitly blocks us from even collecting data on how we could potentially reduce gun deaths. How can that be?"

    I also find it interesting that citizens against common sense gun control laws assert that the underlying causes are mental illnesses and not the guns but those same people are against implementing the funding needed to diagnose and treat those disorders.

    Personally, I think mental illness is often used as a scapegoat to allow policymakers and the public ignore bigger, more complicated contributors to gun violence.

    But what do I know. I am just a kid, right? icon_wink.gif*insert sarcasm*


    I hope we can survive until your generation is in charge, and then hopefully these changes can happen.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14295

    Oct 02, 2015 1:47 PM GMT
    It is time to get rid of the second amendment for good. I don't want to hear that happy horseshit that "if guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns". That is just a glorified excuse to maintain the unacceptable status quo and pander to the tea party and the NRA.
  • gymnerd

    Posts: 133

    Oct 02, 2015 1:49 PM GMT
    Couple of my coworkers and friends are gun "enthusiasts," and after countless arguments on the issue I honestly think change may never happen. It's almost as if guns are a religion to some people, and in religion beliefs dont need to be supported by facts or experience.

  • interestingch...

    Posts: 694

    Oct 02, 2015 1:57 PM GMT
    While travelling in Australia in 95/96 there was a mass shooting in Hobart Tasmania and there were around 35 killed and 23 wounded, the Aussie government put a bill through parliament within 3 months and during the next 3 months rounded all guns up with very strict laws on shotguns only, farmers were allowed but have to have psyche tests done regularly to keep their licence. In the UK we have very strict laws regarding guns, the only mass shootings we ever had were Dunblane, Scotland, 16 children and 1 teacher killed and Cumbria where 12 were shot dead, in our whole history, that is still an unacceptable number in my view. There have been terrorist attacks also but that is a slightly different scenario. Usually political.
    It is never too late to ban guns and this isn't the wild west any more and guns have no place in modern society, it is not civilised, I don't know if any people reading this have been around Europe or any of the commonwealth countries but it so much safer and the people are happier and way more secure, you don't, to a certain degree have to worry about your safety, I have recently been in London, Rennes in France and Lisbon Portugal and frequently get in at 4 in the morning after walking back after a night on the town and nothing happened and neither did I ever think it would, the worst that could happen is someone could pull a knife and ask for your wallet which can be replaced, you cannot replace a life and a gun shot is final usually, if a stabbing occurs it is much more personal as it takes a physical act to commit the crime whereas a gun being shot, there is a detachment to the act of firing it and its too easy, quick if its an automatic weapon, devastating to a group of people and the person using doesn't have to reload so cannot be apprehended whilst doing this. In the UK, our police don't even carry guns apart from a few anti terrorist squads in London, The police are here to protect the public and to stop crime not to abuse their powers of authority over the people but that is another topic entirely.
    Stop making bullets as well as banning the guns, if people couldn't buy them then they will run out eventually, make it illegal for any weapon, when are we going to start looking after each other, life isn't all about competing against each other, kindness costs nothing.
    Laws can be changed.
    Life is sacred.
    My thoughts are with all those affected, family and friends, teachers and students.
    Lets not see this happen again.
    The UK have on average 50 gun murders per year in the whole country and thats mainly drug gang related rather than random crime, NYC have that on average per month and thats just one city, enough said.




  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 02, 2015 2:07 PM GMT
    Yea, I don't disagree with you that it would make for a safer environment. I just fear a bunch of militia type showdowns... "they're gonna take away our guns" is one of the rallying cries.

    Also, it was explained to me by a Wyoming resident that people in that part of the country feel very differently about gun possession than those of us in urban/populated areas. There are counties where law enforcement consists of 2-3 people and if something happens on your land, nobody is coming to help (at least not fast enough to make a difference). I could understand why someone in that situation would resist being told they couldn't own a gun.

    I think the idea of requiring psych tests, safety courses and registration would go a long way to solving the problem, but again they would have to know you had the gun to enforce it, and the market has been so loose up til now it will be difficult if not impossible to track them all down. I don't think door-to-door searches would go over very well.
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    Oct 02, 2015 2:12 PM GMT
    ShiftyJK08 saidEven if they changed the law now, how do you get the guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them? There are so many out there, and it's not like they expire.



    nics_bg_stats_zpsdjbyj0gn.jpg

    Over 200 million guns were sold in the US in the past 15 years. These are background checks, and each background check may include more than one firearm.

    This doesn't take into account those existing prior to 1998.

    Good luck in confiscating all of them and keeping them out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them.

    I predict this this incident and Obama's "before the bodies are cool" response will spike gun sales in Octover.
  • biathlete01

    Posts: 81

    Oct 02, 2015 2:27 PM GMT
    http://namelesscynic.blogspot.com/2013/11/debunking-tale-of-two-cities.html

    A Tale of Two Cities

    Chicago, IL Houston, TX
    Population 2.7 million 2.15 million
    Median HH Income $38,600 $37,000
    % African-American 38.9% 24%
    % Hispanic 29.9% 44%
    % Asian 5.5% 6%
    % Non-Hispanic White 28.7% 26%

    Pretty similar until you compare the following:

    Chicago, IL Houston, TX
    Concealed Carry gun law no yes
    # of Gun Stores 0 184 - Dedicated gun stores plus 1500 - legal places to buy guns- Walmart, K-mart, sporting goods, etc.
    Homicides, 2012 1,806 207
    Homicides per 100K 38.4 9.6
    Avg. January high temperature (F) 31 63

    Conclusion: Cold weather causes murder
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 02, 2015 2:36 PM GMT
    ShiftyJK08 saidThere are counties where law enforcement consists of 2-3 people and if something happens on your land, nobody is coming to help (at least not fast enough to make a difference). I could understand why someone in that situation would resist being told they couldn't own a gun.


    I don't see how that's any kind of valid argument. You think there aren't places in the UK where there are no police anywhere near? We seem to cope without having a fully stocked arsenal of automatic weapons on hand.

    Having said that, if there's a zombie apocalypse we're fucked.

    I don't know when the US will wake up and realise that their gun laws need to change. Am I right in thinking that this 'amendment' that the psychos cling to so desperately was written many many years ago, before the invention of automatic weapons etc? Times change, it's a shame that the US is such a progressive nation in some respects but seems to want to cling to the dark ages with this.
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    Oct 02, 2015 2:43 PM GMT
    PulseFit said
    ShiftyJK08 saidThere are counties where law enforcement consists of 2-3 people and if something happens on your land, nobody is coming to help (at least not fast enough to make a difference). I could understand why someone in that situation would resist being told they couldn't own a gun.


    I don't see how that's any kind of valid argument. You think there aren't places in the UK where there are no police anywhere near? We seem to cope without having a fully stocked arsenal of automatic weapons on hand.

    Having said that, if there's a zombie apocalypse we're fucked.

    I don't know when the US will wake up and realise that their gun laws need to change. Am I right in thinking that this 'amendment' that the psychos cling to so desperately was written many many years ago, before the invention of automatic weapons etc? Times change, it's a shame that the US is such a progressive nation in some respects but seems to want to cling to the dark ages with this.


    I'm not saying I agree with it, it's just an ingrained culture that is going to be hard to shift since it has been in place for so long, and it was a viewpoint I hadn't considered since I've always lived in suburban areas where the cops show up in minutes when called.

    Yes, it was in place since much of the country was effectively lawless and there were private militias who filled the void of a proper military or police force. It is still in place because the gun manufacturers have managed to keep enough congresspeople in their pockets and foment the kind of paranoia among the public that leads to weapons stockpiling.

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    Oct 02, 2015 3:03 PM GMT
    robbaker saidLiberal America at it's finest this is obamas hope and change policy lol you voters voted for him simply because he was black .you've all been deceived .yea american people wake up time to vote for donald trump for president icon_mad.gif


    It is amusing that men your age exist who take this man seriously. Did you even see the recent Republican debate? The man lacks substance and relies on his status as a celebrity. Furthermore, the reason he is popular with rather uneducated voters, hopefully you are not one of them but your comment proves the contrary, because of his controversial and rather racist statements that people want to voice but fear the repercussions.
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    Oct 02, 2015 3:05 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn said
    ShiftyJK08 saidEven if they changed the law now, how do you get the guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them? There are so many out there, and it's not like they expire.



    nics_bg_stats_zpsdjbyj0gn.jpg

    Over 200 million guns were sold in the US in the past 15 years. These are background checks, and each background check may include more than one firearm.

    This doesn't take into account those existing prior to 1998.

    Good luck in confiscating all of them and keeping them out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them.

    I predict this this incident and Obama's "before the bodies are cool" response will spike gun sales in Octover.


    The NRA and gun manufacturers will love that. Why do people in America equate gun control with gun banning? I swear I bet we are the laughing stock of the developed world.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 02, 2015 3:07 PM GMT
    As a Canadian, living with fairly strict gun control, I've never understood the argument "We need a gun to be safe". I grew up in a rural area...and not once did anyone need a gun to protect themselves. Kill a coyote going after the turkeys, yes, but not to protect themselves.

    I know we have about 1/10 the US population, *but*:

    Take our total # of multiple-victim(dead *or* injured, since the NRA likes to argue that if you're not dead it doesn't count) shootings.
    Multiply by 10.

    Compare to US numbers.

    Still convinced gun control doesn't do *anything* to reduce gun violence?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 02, 2015 3:19 PM GMT
    if the government started to restrict gun ownership, what new personal freedom could replace the 2nd amendment?
    and
    Society is so grid locked you know nothing is possible. Someone let the cat out of the bag, needed the votes, deal with it.
  • metta

    Posts: 39075

    Oct 02, 2015 3:29 PM GMT
    The data speaks for itself....


    Gun Law Score Card by State

    http://gunlawscorecard.org/
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Oct 02, 2015 3:51 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said"if guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns".


    But this is true. I'm not in favor of guns at all. I've never even held a real gun. That said, changing gun laws will not stop people who want guns from obtaining them. All it will really do is increase the size of the "Black Market" out there for anyone who wants a gun to obtain one.
  • MarcelP

    Posts: 12

    Oct 02, 2015 4:00 PM GMT
    I'm thrilled to see this necessary discussion.

    But why are we focusing on guns. They seem to be almost a lost cause. Instead we should be focusing on severely regulating access to ammunition.

    In all the gun control discussions, I never hear anything about bullet control. ITALIC TEXT GOES HERE
  • metta

    Posts: 39075

    Oct 02, 2015 4:28 PM GMT
    Armed vet destroys gun nuts’ argument on mass shooters by explaining why he didn’t attack Oregon killer




    "A veteran who says he was carrying a concealed weapon on the UCC campus Thursday when 26-year-old Christopher Harper Mercer went on a murderous rampage, says he didn’t intervene because he knew police SWAT team members wouldn’t know him from the shooter."

    http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/armed-vet-destroys-gun-nuts-argument-on-mass-shooters-by-explaining-why-he-didnt-attack-oregon-killer/
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 02, 2015 4:32 PM GMT
    biathlete01 saidhttp://namelesscynic.blogspot.com/2013/11/debunking-tale-of-two-cities.html

    A Tale of Two Cities

    Chicago, IL Houston, TX
    Population 2.7 million 2.15 million
    Median HH Income $38,600 $37,000
    % African-American 38.9% 24%
    % Hispanic 29.9% 44%
    % Asian 5.5% 6%
    % Non-Hispanic White 28.7% 26%

    Pretty similar until you compare the following:

    Chicago, IL Houston, TX
    Concealed Carry gun law no yes
    # of Gun Stores 0 184 - Dedicated gun stores plus 1500 - legal places to buy guns- Walmart, K-mart, sporting goods, etc.
    Homicides, 2012 1,806 207
    Homicides per 100K 38.4 9.6
    Avg. January high temperature (F) 31 63

    Conclusion: Cold weather causes murder


    LOL! Very good! And, all this time I thought it was due to the lake effect!
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3515

    Oct 02, 2015 4:41 PM GMT
    They should just make one small change, you have the right to bear arms, if you are married only. Would cut way down on the problem. No more teenagers, no more loners, no more sexless losers with problems. If you can convince someone to marry you, that is a simple prequalification as being somewhat less crazy, and gives you a little more to live for. And incentive to be more stable.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 02, 2015 4:43 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn said
    Over 200 million guns were sold in the US in the past 15 years. These are background checks, and each background check may include more than one firearm.

    This doesn't take into account those existing prior to 1998.

    Good luck in confiscating all of them and keeping them out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them.


    That's a bit like arguing a disease epidemic can't be controlled, so why bother trying? And even worse: Why not level the playing field by giving the disease to even more people?
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    Oct 02, 2015 5:38 PM GMT
    smrtnfit22 saidYour impassioned rant is much needed sir and here is the evidence to back up your claim that deaths from gun violence in America are more prevalent than deaths from terrorism in America.

    http://www.vox.com/2015/10/1/9437187/obama-guns-terrorism-deaths

    Furthermore, it is discomforting to know that attempts to research the underlying causes of gun violence is being blocked by the Republican controlled congress. As evidenced by this source and Obama's frustrations.

    http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence

    "We spent over a trillion dollars, and passed countless laws, and devote entire agencies to preventing terrorist attacks on our soil, and rightfully so" Obama said. "And yet we have a Congress that explicitly blocks us from even collecting data on how we could potentially reduce gun deaths. How can that be?"

    I also find it interesting that citizens against common sense gun control laws assert that the underlying causes are mental illnesses and not the guns but those same people are against implementing the funding needed to diagnose and treat those disorders.

    Personally, I think mental illness is often used as a scapegoat to allow policymakers and the public ignore bigger, more complicated contributors to gun violence.

    But what do I know. I am just a kid, right? icon_wink.gif*insert sarcasm*


    Duh. Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid blocked gun control after Sandy Hook.

    Meet The NRA-Backed Senate Democrats Who Oppose Obama’s Gun Violence Prevention Plan:

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/01/17/1463981/meet-the-nra-backed-senate-democrats-who-oppose-obamas-gun-violence-prevention-plan/

    Socialist Democrat Bernie Sanders has a "B" rating from the NRA and opposes most gun control.

    As for Annie Oakley:


    As for Obama, where's his outrage over this targeted execution of Christians.

  • ChicagoSteve

    Posts: 1272

    Oct 02, 2015 6:43 PM GMT
    In July, 2012,12 people were killed and 70 were injured by a gunman at the Century 16 movie theater in Aurora, Colorado.In December, 2012, a gunman shot and killed 20 school children and 6 adult staff members at the Sandy Hook school in Connecticut. After both shootings, there was a mass outcry in the U.S. for changes in gun control. Nothing happened. I'm convinced nothing is ever going to happen with this issue. Republicans are in bed with the NRA and their lobbyists. If 20 murdered school kids can't change policies, nothing will, it's hopeless and absolutely shameful.