Rock Hudson, memorializing his death 30 Years later

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    Oct 03, 2015 6:25 AM GMT
    Rock Hudson, became the first major celebrity to die of AIDS related symptoms. He passed away on 2 October 1985 at age 59. He also suffered from a rare disorder called 'Pariah's'. He was scheduled to be a host on 'Doris Day and friends' which aired for the first time in 1989. A great icon and a true legend. He will be sadly missed.http://www.cnnmobile.com/entertainment/2015/10/01/rock-hudsons-death-30-years-later
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    Oct 03, 2015 7:59 PM GMT



    I know that life is eternal, something good is going to come from this experience.
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    Oct 04, 2015 8:29 AM GMT
    I was listening to an item about Rock Hudson on the radio last night. It was explaining that before Rock Hudson's illness, people with HIV/AIDS tended to be categorized by most people, between those who contracted it "innocently" -e.g. from blood transfusions and pre-birth - and those who had "brought it upon themselves" - i.e. gay men. Hudson's illness and death brought it home to many people that the disease could happen to anyone.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p033n9sg#play
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    Oct 04, 2015 3:49 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidI was listening to an item about Rock Hudson on the radio last night. It was explaining that before Rock Hudson's illness, people with HIV/AIDS tended to be categorized by most people, between those who contracted it "innocently" -e.g. from blood transfusions and pre-birth - and those who had "brought it upon themselves" - i.e. gay men. Hudson's illness and death brought it home to many people that the disease could happen to anyone.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p033n9sg#play


    I categorize people and how they've contracted HIV. A baby born with HIV is as innocent as you can get. Ryan White and so many others like him never got to live a full life. All they needed was blood. They're very much in the innocent infection category.

    This actor from "Who's the Boss" who just announced he's been poz for over 10 years brought it on himself and who knows how many others he infected in the process. He's far from innocent. Even though Rock Hudson was a closeted gay man I read some time ago that it's possible he contracted HIV from a blood transfusion when he had heart bypass, which was prior to HIV blood testing. If that's the case he was an innocent victim of tainted blood.

    Either way, it's heartbreaking Rock and others never got to live a longer life.
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    Oct 04, 2015 6:58 PM GMT
    Compaq said
    Ex_Mil8 saidI was listening to an item about Rock Hudson on the radio last night. It was explaining that before Rock Hudson's illness, people with HIV/AIDS tended to be categorized by most people, between those who contracted it "innocently" -e.g. from blood transfusions and pre-birth - and those who had "brought it upon themselves" - i.e. gay men. Hudson's illness and death brought it home to many people that the disease could happen to anyone.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p033n9sg#play


    I categorize people and how they've contracted HIV. A baby born with HIV is as innocent as you can get. Ryan White and so many others like him never got to live a full life. All they needed was blood. They're very much in the innocent infection category.

    This actor from "Who's the Boss" who just announced he's been poz for over 10 years brought it on himself and who knows how many others he infected in the process. He's far from innocent. Even though Rock Hudson was a closeted gay man I read some time ago that it's possible he contracted HIV from a blood transfusion when he had heart bypass, which was prior to HIV blood testing. If that's the case he was an innocent victim of tainted blood.

    Either way, it's heartbreaking Rock and others never got to live a longer life.


    Do you belong to a Southern Baptist church?

    You sound like someone from the christian right in you proclamation of "innocent" or "brought it on himself"....which is an ignorant value judgement.

    Sex is human, sex is normal. So is gay sex. How about your 'judgement' in the age of GRID or even before that? Stigma is still the biggest problem with HIV. Get over it, deal with the issues at hand. It doesn't matter HOW someone got it.

    It's always interesting to see puritanical gay men, grasping at straws for their own moral rationalizing.
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    Oct 04, 2015 7:02 PM GMT
    BTW what if you don't know how they got HIV? Do you judge more harshly if they are Gay?

    Presumptuous to say the least.
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    Oct 04, 2015 8:23 PM GMT
    The problem with “I’m entitled to my opinion” is that, all too often, it’s used to shelter beliefs that should have been abandoned. It becomes shorthand for “I can say or think whatever I like” – and by extension, continuing to argue is somehow disrespectful. And this attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse.


    http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978
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    Oct 04, 2015 11:34 PM GMT
    The more things change, the more they remain the same.

    "We have lived through the most devastating years of the AIDS pandemic, lost many friends and colleagues, and witnessed the destructive power of social stigma. But in those days, the stigma and shaming came mostly from the outside world — from people who already hated us for being queer or black or poor.

    Today, much of the shaming comes from our own LGBT community — from people we hope would have more empathy and a sense of solidarity. It comes from those who regard newly infected people with smug contempt, who wag their fingers and say "You knew the risk!" or "You must be on meth!" or "You should have used a condom!" We need to stop shaming people — we need to stop talking at them and start listening to them."


    http://www.advocate.com/6in10men/2015/9/25/dear-white-lgbt-people-prove-black-lives-matter
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    Oct 05, 2015 9:06 AM GMT
    timmm55 saidThe problem with “I’m entitled to my opinion” is that, all too often, it’s used to shelter beliefs that should have been abandoned. It becomes shorthand for “I can say or think whatever I like” – and by extension, continuing to argue is somehow disrespectful. And this attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse.


    http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978


    QFT^: This problem is endemic in American society today, this "entitled to my opinion" crap. No, one is not entitled to an illiterate, illogical, stupid, ignorant, erroneous opinion without being condemned for it. He may continue to hold it, but his opinion is not entitled to any dignity or respect.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Oct 05, 2015 6:03 PM GMT
    I was obsessed with Doris Day as a kid (I'm sure that was my parents first clue that I was gay - ha) and I remember the movie "Pillow Talk" well. They were a great screen team together. I also loved the movies Doris Day made with James Garner.
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    Oct 05, 2015 7:15 PM GMT
    Sulla said
    timmm55 saidThe problem with “I’m entitled to my opinion” is that, all too often, it’s used to shelter beliefs that should have been abandoned. It becomes shorthand for “I can say or think whatever I like” – and by extension, continuing to argue is somehow disrespectful. And this attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse.


    http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978


    QFT^: This problem is endemic in American society today, this "entitled to my opinion" crap. No, one is not entitled to an illiterate, illogical, stupid, ignorant, erroneous opinion without being condemned for it. He may continue to hold it, but his opinion is not entitled to any dignity or respect.
    Is a glass of water full, when it's half empty, or do you just say, "Here's some water."? Is it possible to swallow a Thesaurus Dictionary?
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    Oct 05, 2015 7:31 PM GMT
    No, maybe, no.
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    Oct 05, 2015 7:34 PM GMT
    '....Even though Rock Hudson was a closeted gay man I read some time ago that it's possible he contracted HIV from a blood transfusion when he had heart bypass, which was prior to HIV blood testing. If that's the case he was an innocent victim of tainted blood...'Rock Hudson was not closeted, he revealed to the World he was Gay. Much to the dismay of millions of female fan's. It was after the movie 'Starstruck'. The testing of blood used for transfusions has always been a priority. There have been few cases where patients have received 'Tainted blood', as opposes to Drug addicts using dirty needles or prositutes having unprotected sex. You do not get AIDS by accident. A head-on-collission is an accident.
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    Oct 05, 2015 8:14 PM GMT
    Fine_Young_Cannibal said'....Even though Rock Hudson was a closeted gay man I read some time ago that it's possible he contracted HIV from a blood transfusion when he had heart bypass, which was prior to HIV blood testing. If that's the case he was an innocent victim of tainted blood...'Rock Hudson was not closeted, he revealed to the World he was Gay. Much to the dismay of millions of female fan's. It was after the movie 'Starstruck'. The testing of blood used for transfusions has always been a priority. There have been few cases where patients have received 'Tainted blood', as opposes to Drug addicts using dirty needles or prositutes having unprotected sex. You do not get AIDS by accident. A head-on-collission is an accident.


    You can't be serious! There have been more than a few people who got AIDS from blood transfusions. People all over the world got AIDS from infected blood as it wasn't tested at that time. Some of the known ones were Ryan White, Elizabeth Glaser, and Arthur Ashe. People like this are innocent victims of AIDS.

    A Look-back For Aids In Transfusions
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-04-14/news/8701280407_1_blood-banks-blood-transfusions-aids-virus
    "The Centers for Disease Control estimates that of about 30 million people who received at least one blood transfusion between 1978 and April, 1985, about 12,000 may have been infected with the AIDS virus."

    It's still happening but extremely rare.

    2 in Florida Get HIV From Transfusions

    http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/news/20020719/2-in-florida-get-hiv-from-transfusions

    "July 19, 2002 -- Two Florida residents have HIV after getting blood from an infected donor. Because the chance of this happening is about 1 in 2 million, health authorities say the U.S. blood supply remains safe."

    I'm looking at the IMDB and I don't see any movie named "Starstruck" with Rock Hudson. He was closeted as were all the big stars in those days. He was threatened by a tabloid magazine in the 50's, and in exchange for keeping his sexuality quiet, his agent revealed personal information about other actors to the tabloid. If Hudson was out he wouldn't have had the successful career he had.

    He had a brief marriage to his secretary and there was a silly rumor he married Jim Nabors, which didn't even make sense seeing there was no such thing as gay marriage back then. When he got sick his handlers said he had cancer, especially after his sickly appearance with Doris Day. When it was finally announced he did have AIDS, many people in Hollywood came forward to admit they knew he was gay for years and his secret was out.

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    Oct 05, 2015 8:20 PM GMT
    3 young brothers infected with AIDS from blood transfusions 1987



    How can anyone say they're not innocent victims?
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    Oct 05, 2015 9:17 PM GMT
    Fine_Young_Cannibal said If that's the case he was an innocent victim of tainted blood...' as opposes to Drug addicts using dirty needles or prositutes having unprotected sex. You do not get AIDS by accident. A head-on-collission is an accident.


    That is all ridiculous!

    If doesn't matter HOW they got HIV.

    If doesn't matter HOW they got HIV.

    If doesn't matter HOW they got HIV.

    If doesn't matter HOW they got HIV.
    X1000

    When I moved to LA in 1978 condoms were rare. GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency) wasn't coined until 1982 or so. The AIDS definition came later.

    Most of the 1.2 MILLION who have HIV in the USA didn't get it from blood transfusions, or sex workers....and a small minority, 8%, are from IV drug users.

    Saying "You do not get AIDS by accident," are you implying it was intentional? That's absurd. 1 in 5 U.S. adults with HIV do not know they are infected.

    HIV is spread by not knowing, not by intention. Of the 50,000 new infections few are from 'bug chasers' or intentional transmissions. A young 13-24 YO black man in DC who contracts HIV is still innocent today. Just as Rock Hudson was innocent in 1980.

    Innocence is not based on HIV status. A sex worker may have 10,000 clients and still be negative. They are Pros. It has nothing to do with innocence or guilt.
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    Oct 05, 2015 10:16 PM GMT
    timmm55 saidHIV is spread by not knowing, not by intention. Of the 50,000 new infections few are from 'bug chasers' or intentional transmissions. A young 13-24 YO black man in DC who contracts HIV is still innocent today. Just as Rock Hudson was innocent in 1980.


    If Rock Hudson got HIV from a blood transfusion he was an innocent victim. He needed the blood to survive. If he got it from bareback sex that was his choice, his gay lifestyle. If he got raped that's another story altogether or stuck with a tainted needle, and in those cases he'd be innocent. It's not fair to compare the innocent, like babies born with HIV, to adults who know better. Look at those three brothers who were hemophiliacs and got HIV from blood. They didn't deserve a death sentence.

    If the black man you refer to is a minor then he's innocent. If he's of legal age and it was his choice there's nothing more to be said.
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    Oct 06, 2015 1:07 AM GMT
    Compaq said
    timmm55 saidHIV is spread by not knowing, not by intention. Of the 50,000 new infections few are from 'bug chasers' or intentional transmissions. A young 13-24 YO black man in DC who contracts HIV is still innocent today. Just as Rock Hudson was innocent in 1980.


    If Rock Hudson got HIV from a blood transfusion he was an innocent victim. He needed the blood to survive. If he got it from bareback sex that was his choice, his gay lifestyle. If he got raped that's another story altogether or stuck with a tainted needle, and in those cases he'd be innocent. It's not fair to compare the innocent, like babies born with HIV, to adults who know better. Look at those three brothers who were hemophiliacs and got HIV from blood. They didn't deserve a death sentence.

    If the black man you refer to is a minor then he's innocent. If he's of legal age and it was his choice there's nothing more to be said.


    A lot more needs to be said.

    Stop with the whole victim and innocence bull shit. The blame game does not do anything constructive.

    So if he is 17 and 11 months and 28 days (a minor) he is an innocent, but a week later he's guilty of something? Rock Hudson is guilty of what? Having sex? It's historical revisionism to apply AIDS awareness before the fact. While a few did use condoms (STDs were higher back then) it was not the norm. There was no "knew better" then, GRID didn't even exist.

    You're no better than Kim Davis, asserting her moral judgement.

    "his gay lifestyle"???? Is this 1980?
    "They (the innocents) didn't deserve a death sentence." So I assume a Gay man having sex DOES deserve to die? It's still not too late to lock us all up (sarcasm).

    Perhaps we should only give treatment to people who are deserving?


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    Oct 06, 2015 3:40 AM GMT
    Yes, you are all correct. I stand corrected. Blood was not tested properly for Transfusions in the 60's up to the 90's. Thankfully is is today. It is tested for Hepatitis B and C and HIV. Donors are also reuired to reveal their medical history as well as their sexual orientation prior to donating. On the other hand Condoms have been around longer than we can imagine, since the 1600's, even before that:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_condoms
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    Oct 06, 2015 3:53 AM GMT
    Fine_Young_Cannibal saidYes, you are all correct. I stand corrected. Blood was not tested properly for Transfusions in the 60's up to the 90's. Thankfully is is today. It is tested for Hepatitis B and C and HIV. Donors are also reuired to reveal their medical history as well as their sexual orientation prior to donating. On the other hand Condoms have been around longer than we can imagine, since the 1600's, even before that:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_condoms


    Yes, condoms have been around for centuries.
    You aren't making your point.

    Till the advent of penicillin STDs were deadly.
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    Oct 06, 2015 6:36 AM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Fine_Young_Cannibal saidYes, you are all correct. I stand corrected. Blood was not tested properly for Transfusions in the 60's up to the 90's. Thankfully is is today. It is tested for Hepatitis B and C and HIV. Donors are also reuired to reveal their medical history as well as their sexual orientation prior to donating. On the other hand Condoms have been around longer than we can imagine, since the 1600's, even before that:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_condoms


    Yes, condoms have been around for centuries.
    You aren't making your point.

    Till the advent of penicillin STDs were deadly.
    Where has this Forum gone to...everyone seems to have a medical degree. So we have concluded there are cases of accidental exposure to HIV, also having unprotected sex, sharing dirty needles with other drug users, etc. The Forum is about a great actor, let me reiterate 'Rock Hudson'. Please stop quoting and unquoting, it is senseless. Also please stick to the Forum's content and heading. Instead of adding things about this legendary actor, as some users have, one user even commented about 'loving Doris Day's Pillow Talk'. I am now hating even posting this Forum. Note to self: 'beware of trolls and schmuck's'. This Forum has now been ruined, thanks!
  • mar0302

    Posts: 273

    Oct 06, 2015 11:56 AM GMT
    Rock Hudson helped change the image and the face of HIV and AIDS. In that, it did lead to something better for all of us. It's a shame that the commentary is so wound up on whether he's guilty for getting AIDS, or innocent. It really doesn't matter. The reality is that a great actor died after getting a disease which was not well known, understood or accepted. His death helped to change public perception of gay people and helped set the stage for the rights that we enjoy today. I'm sad for his suffering and shameful that it took the AIDS crisis (and millions of deaths) to create a world which is more accepting of gay rights and gays as people.
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    Oct 06, 2015 12:35 PM GMT
    Thank you 'mar0302', finally the Forum gets back on topical course. You're a star...make that a double star. Maybe my Forum is not ruined after all.
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    Oct 06, 2015 1:31 PM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Compaq said
    timmm55 saidHIV is spread by not knowing, not by intention. Of the 50,000 new infections few are from 'bug chasers' or intentional transmissions. A young 13-24 YO black man in DC who contracts HIV is still innocent today. Just as Rock Hudson was innocent in 1980.


    If Rock Hudson got HIV from a blood transfusion he was an innocent victim. He needed the blood to survive. If he got it from bareback sex that was his choice, his gay lifestyle. If he got raped that's another story altogether or stuck with a tainted needle, and in those cases he'd be innocent. It's not fair to compare the innocent, like babies born with HIV, to adults who know better. Look at those three brothers who were hemophiliacs and got HIV from blood. They didn't deserve a death sentence.

    If the black man you refer to is a minor then he's innocent. If he's of legal age and it was his choice there's nothing more to be said.


    A lot more needs to be said.

    Stop with the whole victim and innocence bull shit. The blame game does not do anything constructive.

    So if he is 17 and 11 months and 28 days (a minor) he is an innocent, but a week later he's guilty of something? Rock Hudson is guilty of what? Having sex? It's historical revisionism to apply AIDS awareness before the fact. While a few did use condoms (STDs were higher back then) it was not the norm. There was no "knew better" then, GRID didn't even exist.

    You're no better than Kim Davis, asserting her moral judgement.

    "his gay lifestyle"???? Is this 1980?
    "They (the innocents) didn't deserve a death sentence." So I assume a Gay man having sex DOES deserve to die? It's still not too late to lock us all up (sarcasm).

    Perhaps we should only give treatment to people who are deserving?



    Everyone deserves treatment who has HIV. When a person is treated for HIV there's no discrimination against them as to how they got it, but it's important for doctors to know. And nobody deserves to die from it. Ryan White would be over 40 by now but he only lived to be 18. Two of those three brothers who were HIV positive didn't live long. Have a little empathy. Would you want your child dying before you just because he got a tainted blood transfusion? When people willingly have sex or share needles that is the lifestyle they chose for themselves, they agreed to it. If you're in your car driving and a drunk driver hits your car and kills or paralyzes you, you are an innocent victim. You don't seem to understand what innocent victims are. Think outside the box, outside of your world.

    Rock Hudson was a great looking guy, a good actor, and people who knew him loved him. He did put a face on AIDS but if he were living today I think he'd be horrified with how things have gone in the gay community. In 2015, 30 years after his death, HIV infections rates for adult gay men are at 20%, higher than they've ever been and higher than any other group of people. It doesn't appear Rock's last message worked.
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    Oct 06, 2015 7:31 PM GMT
    Compaq said




    Everyone deserves treatment who has HIV. When a person is treated for HIV there's no discrimination against them as to how they got it, but it's important for doctors to know. And nobody deserves to die from it. Ryan White would be over 40 by now but he only lived to be 18. Two of those three brothers who were HIV positive didn't live long. Have a little empathy. Would you want your child dying before you just because he got a tainted blood transfusion? When people willingly have sex or share needles that is the lifestyle they chose for themselves, they agreed to it. If you're in your car driving and a drunk driver hits your car and kills or paralyzes you, you are an innocent victim. You don't seem to understand what innocent victims are. Think outside the box, outside of your world.

    Rock Hudson was a great looking guy, a good actor, and people who knew him loved him. He did put a face on AIDS but if he were living today I think he'd be horrified with how things have gone in the gay community. In 2015, 30 years after his death, HIV infections rates for adult gay men are at 20%, higher than they've ever been and higher than any other group of people. It doesn't appear Rock's last message worked.


    First your math is horribly flawed.

    U.S. YEAR-END STATISTICS

    1992
    254,147 cases of AIDS reported to date
    194,476 deaths
    1993
    360, 909 cases of AIDS reported to date
    234,225 deaths


    That's 106,762 in one year. Now it is around 50,000 every year. Maybe you are confused. People with HIV are living with the disease a lot longer. 1.3 MILLION are alive and WELL.


    You say "When a person is treated for HIV there's no discrimination against them as to how they got it, but it's important for doctors to know." (Again utterly absurd, I've 'fired' doctors for ignorance, presumptions, and stigma) Then you go on to compare HIV people to being drunk drivers? I am not mentally impaired. HIV is not illegal. HIV is not an inherent danger.

    Someone awhile back referred to me specifically as being a loaded gun. Which is absurd since I'm undetectable. But that sort of pigeon holing and discrimination is rampant.


    You are implying I lack empathy. I have more empathy than you could possibly imagine, but I don't leverage it, making one worse or better. Have you ever been to an AIDS hospice? Have you ever looked into the eyes of your best friend and knew they were not his? The disease took out every spark of life in him, long before he actually died. Michael was the perfect Mormon boy, 20 when I met him. Curly blond hair and blue eyes. 29 when he died.

    Have you ever laid in bed with a dying man to comfort him? He was 6'2" and 210....wasted to 120 lbs. I never thought for a second about 'guilt' and he's the ex who gave me HIV.

    You don't have empathy. You are using them as chess pieces in a game that had no winners.