What's the latest & most accurate info on BJ's on POS guys and/or swallowing his load?

  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Oct 06, 2015 3:54 PM GMT
    I've been hanging out with a HIV+ guy, in shape, seemingly normal, healthy, handsome (to my eyes), who appears to like me also.

    The first time we met he told me he was positive, undetectable viral load, in good health. After a couple of get togethers (coffee, dinner, movie) his positive status faded into the background of my mind.

    It's a distinct possibility that we will be in bed this weekend, for the first time.

    What is the latest opinion on neg guys giving pos guys blow jobs and/or swallowing the load of a HIV Positive man?



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    Oct 06, 2015 4:21 PM GMT
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    Oct 06, 2015 4:23 PM GMT
    By the way, just wondering, how do you know he's undetectable?

    Also with this scenario I suppose you're on PrEP, right? If you're not you should..
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Oct 06, 2015 9:16 PM GMT
    I know this topic has been covered here in the recent past, did several searches, cannot find any information.

    Any serious and informative replies and/or advice?
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    Oct 06, 2015 9:48 PM GMT
    rnch saidI know this topic has been covered here in the recent past, did several searches, cannot find any information.

    Any serious and informative replies and/or advice?

    Dude my reply was serious and quite informative, you're completly lost.
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    Oct 07, 2015 2:24 AM GMT
    Fast Facts from the CDC:

    The risk of HIV transmission through oral sex is much less than that from anal or vaginal sex—but it is not zero.
    Performing oral sex on an HIV-infected man, with ejaculation in the mouth, is the riskiest oral sex activity.
    Factors that may increase the risk of HIV transmission through oral sex are oral ulcers, bleeding gums, genital sores, and the presence of other sexually transmitted diseases.


    The following things can reduce the risk of getting HIV through oral sex:

    If giving oral sex, avoid having your partner ejaculate in your mouth.
    Use barriers, such as condoms, natural rubber latex sheets, dental dams, or cut-open nonlubricated condoms between your mouth and your partner’s genitals or rectum.
    The risk of getting HIV from oral sex is lower if you are already taking pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP) consistently and correctly or if your partner is living with HIV and is taking antiretroviral therapy (ART) consistently and correctly. PrEP is a drug (Truvada) that can be prescribed to people at substantial risk of HIV to prevent infection. ART is a combination of drugs to treat HIV in people who already have HIV.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4864

    Oct 07, 2015 7:06 AM GMT
    Probably most of us have had oral conditions including the ones listed by a previous poster. These conditions can easily be present without our being aware of them. This is an issue that receives inadequate attention.

    The medical professionals concerned with the spread of HIV seem to assume that all gay men have only anal sex which, of course, is not true. Actually, until the late 1970s or later, anal sex was not even popular. It would be helpful if medical professionals adequately addressed the matter of oral sex. All they say now is to use a condom every time one has sex, but trying to get men to use condoms for oral sex is not very successful.
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    Oct 07, 2015 7:23 PM GMT
    The latest opinions ALL confirm the Swiss Statement of 2008.

    "Swiss experts say individuals with undetectable viral load and no STI cannot transmit HIV during sex."

    http://www.aidsmap.com/Swiss-experts-say-individuals-with-undetectable-viral-load-and-no-STI-cannot-transmit-HIV-during-sex/page/1429357/


    Back then a lot of people went ape shit!

    In 2008 Australasians reject Swiss statement - model predicts fourfold increase in HIV transmission over 10 years!!!!!

    http://www.aidsmap.com/The-Swiss-Statement-and-its-repercussions/page/1746478/


    What does Australia say now (2014)?
    http://www.acon.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/What-is-Safe-Sex-Position-2014.pdf

    There are now at least five strategies that reasonably constitute‘safe sex’, provided that certain parameters are met.
    They are:
    1.The use of Condoms during casual encounters between men of unknown or discordant serostatus.
    2.HIV negative men taking effective pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP).
    3.Men living with HIV who only have sex without condoms when they have a sustained undetectable viral load (UVL) and in the absence of sexually transmissible infections (STIs).
    4.Effective use of serosorting between HIV positive men.
    5.Effective negotiated safety agreements.

    (2015)


    The medications suppress HIV and can render it virtually harmless, unable to transmit to a sexual partner.
    "Let me say it another way: We never saw a case of HIV transmission in a person who is stably suppressed on ART."


    [url]

    http://www.hivplusmag.com/treatment/2015/07/23/breakthrough-study-shows-zero-hiv-transmissions-when-undetectable[/url]


    It doesn't matter if it's oral or anal sex. Oral is relatively low risk to begin with, with a partner on ART HIV transmission is virtually impossible.

    The Partners Study, Opposites Attract, etc. etc.....they all have the same results. No infections from a stable undetectable partner.
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    Oct 07, 2015 7:58 PM GMT
    David666k said
    rnch saidI know this topic has been covered here in the recent past, did several searches, cannot find any information.

    Any serious and informative replies and/or advice?

    Dude my reply was serious and quite informative, you're completly lost.


    This was informative? >>>
    "By the way, just wondering, how do you know he's undetectable?

    Also with this scenario I suppose you're on PrEP, right? If you're not you should."



    Below is an article I found interesting from a NEG perspective. It's a little dated (2012) and doesn't even mention PrEP.

    Please Don't Infect Me, I'm Sorry

    http://gawker.com/5935651/please-dont-infect-me-im-sorry





  • EDRock

    Posts: 20

    Oct 07, 2015 8:43 PM GMT

    "Performing Oral Sex On A Man
    The risk of getting HIV by performing oral sex (your mouth on someone’s penis or “fellatio”) is low, but it is not zero risk. It is difficult to measure the exact risk because people who practice oral sex may also practice other forms of sex during the same encounter.
    Performing oral sex on an HIV-infected man, with ejaculation in the mouth, is the riskiest type of oral sex activity.
    If the man you are performing oral sex on has HIV, his blood, semen, or pre-seminal fluid may contain the virus.
    Performing oral sex also puts you at risk for getting other STDs, including herpes.
    Your risk of getting HIV or other STDs is reduced if you do not have open sores or cuts in your mouth.
    You can reduce your risk of getting HIV and other STDs through oral sex if you avoid having your partner ejaculate (cum) in your mouth, and if you use a condom."
    For more, see http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/riskbehaviors/oralsex.html

    https://www.aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/prevention/reduce-your-risk/pre-exposure-prophylaxis/index.html


    Dude. Please google, or Poz magazine/ POZ.com among other sources.
    There are variables but if you ensure the "donor" is otherwise healthy, HIV "undetectable" and you are not gargling with their semen-with open sores, you are remarkably safe. latest research would say into the less than 1 or 3 % chance of inefection or infinitesimally low risk? something like that. Assuming you are gay or having sex with men, you should already know this ; )
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    Oct 07, 2015 9:36 PM GMT
    EDRock said
    "Performing Oral Sex On A Man
    The risk of getting HIV by performing oral sex (your mouth on someone’s penis or “fellatio”) is low, but it is not zero risk. It is difficult to measure the exact risk because people who practice oral sex may also practice other forms of sex during the same encounter.
    Performing oral sex on an HIV-infected man, with ejaculation in the mouth, is the riskiest type of oral sex activity.
    If the man you are performing oral sex on has HIV, his blood, semen, or pre-seminal fluid may contain the virus.
    Performing oral sex also puts you at risk for getting other STDs, including herpes.
    Your risk of getting HIV or other STDs is reduced if you do not have open sores or cuts in your mouth.
    You can reduce your risk of getting HIV and other STDs through oral sex if you avoid having your partner ejaculate (cum) in your mouth, and if you use a condom."
    For more, see http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/riskbehaviors/oralsex.html

    https://www.aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/prevention/reduce-your-risk/pre-exposure-prophylaxis/index.html


    Dude. Please google, or Poz magazine/ POZ.com among other sources.
    There are variables but if you ensure the "donor" is otherwise healthy, HIV "undetectable" and you are not gargling with their semen-with open sores, you are remarkably safe. latest research would say into the less than 1 or 3 % chance of inefection or infinitesimally low risk? something like that. Assuming you are gay or having sex with men, you should already know this ; )


    Just to add to the 1-3%, it's not as if you had sex 100 times you'd get HIV. It's a a confidence level. If a medical procedure had a 97% success rate, it means the risk is extremely low.

    Factored into some studies, by design, are people who either don't actually take the meds, are not yet fully suppressed or have stopped taking their meds. Or even outside affairs (the 4 who became POZ in the Partner;s Study). Efficacy includes real world events.

    One of the early PrEP studies stated 44%.....but most weren't even taking their meds!
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    Oct 08, 2015 12:03 AM GMT
    Without quoting a bunch of sources, it is very unlikely to transmit HIV by oral sex. It is even less likely if the the positive guy is undetectable. Since responsible poz guys are regularly tested for all sexually transmitted diseases it is equally unlikely to transmit other std's by oral sex.
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    Oct 08, 2015 7:07 AM GMT
    FRE0 said
    Actually, until the late 1970s or later, anal sex was not even popular.


    Where did you get that idea?

    It's known that Greeks had anal sex. And in the Middle ages there were Church prohibitions on many sexual acts, especially anal.

    In the Oscar Wilde trial I remember reading graphic details regarding the hotel sheets (semen/fecal matter).

    Victorian smut!

    tumblr_m9l4gisNXl1radmcao4_500.jpg

    tumblr_lrmzg41lua1qd98sho1_400.jpg
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    Oct 08, 2015 11:11 PM GMT
    Why swallow if you can chew? Undetected HIV, just means that the person infected can live a normal life and that the CD4 count has normalized. The infected person has to continue using Anti-retro virals anyway.
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    Oct 08, 2015 11:25 PM GMT
    Fine_Young_Cannibal saidWhy swallow if you can chew? Undetected HIV, just means that the person infected can live a normal life and that the CD4 count has normalized. The infected person has to continue using Anti-retro virals anyway.




    WOW, read some of the links I and others have provided.


    Undetectable VIRAL LOAD. (UVL)
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    Oct 09, 2015 10:13 AM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Fine_Young_Cannibal said....




    WOW, read some of the links I and others have provided.


    Undetectable VIRAL LOAD. (UVL)
    Of course I read all the links. HIV prevention is a big task in our country, together with fighting TB. The Black population do not enjoy practicing safe sex. They get TB, which is rife in Black Townships, this weakens their immune system and makes them more susceptible to contracting HIV. We celebrate International AIDS Day on 2nd December in a big way in order to educate and teach, holding seminars across the country. I did enjoy that link on Oscar Wilde, very graphic. By the way ARV's do limit the risk of infection to another person. I still say, when in doubt, condomize - or better yet, condomize anyway. Other STD's such as Gonnoreah and Syffillus are not pleasant to have either.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Oct 09, 2015 6:06 PM GMT
    jimib saidWithout quoting a bunch of sources, it is very unlikely to transmit HIV by oral sex. It is even less likely if the the positive guy is undetectable. Since responsible poz guys are regularly tested for all sexually transmitted diseases it is equally unlikely to transmit other std's by oral sex.




    My leather Daddy Doctor said basically the same thing as this last night.
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    Oct 09, 2015 6:37 PM GMT
    Fine_Young_Cannibal said
    timmm55 said
    Fine_Young_Cannibal said....




    WOW, read some of the links I and others have provided.


    Undetectable VIRAL LOAD. (UVL)
    Of course I read all the links. HIV prevention is a big task in our country, together with fighting TB. The Black population do not enjoy practicing safe sex. They get TB, which is rife in Black Townships, this weakens their immune system and makes them more susceptible to contracting HIV. We celebrate International AIDS Day on 2nd December in a big way in order to educate and teach, holding seminars across the country. I did enjoy that link on Oscar Wilde, very graphic. By the way ARV's do limit the risk of infection to another person. I still say, when in doubt, condomize - or better yet, condomize anyway. Other STD's such as Gonnoreah and Syffillus are not pleasant to have either.


    OK, I see you are in S Africa. There is a difference in incidence.

    But CD4s are white blood "helper cells" they show how well you immunity is functioning. We all have them. 400-1600 is normal for non-HIV infected persons. MORE IS BETTER!

    Viral Load is the amount of HIV in blood. A negative person doesn't have a Viral load. LESS IS BETTER! It can be crazy big, 700,000. With ART therapy is brought down to 'undetectable' viral load of 200 (the old standard) now it's 50, 40 or less, some tests are detecting 20. Think of it as reducing "War And Peace" edited down to a few nonsensical fragmented words. There are so few particles they are unable to transfer, and CD4 are able to do their job.

    "It's way more than "Undetected HIV, (I think you mean undetectable HIV, undetected is untested HIV) just means that the person infected can live a normal life and that the CD4 count has normalized. The infected person has to continue using Anti-retro virals anyway."

    To me, more importantly it prevents the transmission of HIV.
    "Just" means it merely does something, of little consequence. Prevention is HUGE.










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    Oct 09, 2015 7:02 PM GMT
    rnch said
    jimib saidWithout quoting a bunch of sources, it is very unlikely to transmit HIV by oral sex. It is even less likely if the the positive guy is undetectable. Since responsible poz guys are regularly tested for all sexually transmitted diseases it is equally unlikely to transmit other std's by oral sex.




    My leather Daddy Doctor said basically the same thing as this last night.


    I've been saying it for years!

    But on RJ it was heretical, I was a liar, a gift-giver, and I needed to be banned!

    As Dr. Joel said : Yes, the odds of transmission are just about zero. While PrEP is an option, it seems like overkill to me: like wearing a seatbelt during a drive-in movie (for those old enough to understand the reference).
    http://hivforum.tumblr.com/

    tumblr_inline_nvh3d9Mz4k1s0kayn_500.jpg

    Don't bother asking him your question though, he's answered it a million times! He calls these questions "The Worried WELL." Just search or skim through.
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    Oct 17, 2015 8:36 PM GMT
    Swallowing his load? Are you insane? Why are you willing to put your health in jeopardy just to give someone else pleasure? That's crazy. This is what flavored condoms are for.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Oct 17, 2015 8:42 PM GMT
    CODY4U saidSwallowing his load? Are you insane? Why are you willing to put your health in jeopardy just to give someone else pleasure? That's crazy. This is what flavored condoms are for.




    Take a Mydol and chill, Felicia.




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    Oct 17, 2015 9:25 PM GMT
    ^^It's actually Midol. And swallowing a Midol would be much safer than your poz cum gargle, whore.


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  • Rhi_Bran

    Posts: 904

    Oct 19, 2015 11:24 PM GMT
    There are variables but if you ensure the "donor" is otherwise healthy, HIV "undetectable" and you are not gargling with their semen-with open sores, you are remarkably safe. latest research would say into the less than 1 or 3 % chance of inefection or infinitesimally low risk? something like that. Assuming you are gay or having sex with men, you should already know this ; )

    1 to 3% chance of infection is not infinitesimally small.

    It is believed that the risk of contracting HIV from oral sex is incredibly small. Unlike those found in the rectum and colon, the mucous membranes in the mouth / palate are not very absorbent and few substances can pass directly through them into the blood. They are also somewhat thicker than the mucous membranes of the rectum and more resistant to deep tears. However, it is simply not possible to put an exact number or % risk of infection. Obviously, if you suffer from frequent aphthous ulcers (10-25% of the world population does), or if you've recently had any other oral or throat infection, the risk is greater because the cells that the virus requires to replicate are already there, right at the surface, and the virus need not fight through a broken tissue barrier. However, it is important to note that HIV is a very fragile virus and saliva contains denaturing enzymes and mucous that can act to trap and kill viruses.

    It all comes down to the risks you're willing to take for this man. Nobody can decide that for you.
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    Oct 20, 2015 1:24 AM GMT
    Rhi_Bran saidThere are variables but if you ensure the "donor" is otherwise healthy, HIV "undetectable" and you are not gargling with their semen-with open sores, you are remarkably safe. latest research would say into the less than 1 or 3 % chance of inefection or infinitesimally low risk? something like that. Assuming you are gay or having sex with men, you should already know this ; )

    1 to 3% chance of infection is not infinitesimally small.






    In the Partners Study they say 96%

    Does that mean 4% will get HIV from their Undetectable partner? No, in fact 100% of the faithful couples did not transmit HIV. (ZERO for every other study also). The 4% were from an outside source.

    For THAT study, in the real world, the negative person still has a 4% chance of getting HIV.

    Just because your partner is undetectable doesn't mean you CAN'T get HIV.

    Maybe Dr Joel expresses it better:

    "I’ll let you do the web search, but I would point you to the HPTN 052 study, a large randomized trial that found a 96% reduction HIV transmission when the positive partner was on treatment, but ZERO linked* transmissions when the positive partner had an undetectable viral load. The PARTNER study is an observational study (emphasis mine) of heterosexual and gay male couples that has found ZERO linked transmissions from positive partners to negative partners through condomless sex when the viral load is undetectable. Finally, the Australian Opposites Attract study has found ZERO linked transmissions so far among gay male discordant couples when the positive partner has an undetectable viral load. In addition, there have been ZERO case reports of a transmission from a fully suppressed person. Lots of ZEROs!

    *”Linked” means transmissions from the positive partner. There were transmissions due to sex with other partners."
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    Oct 20, 2015 2:58 PM GMT
    The answer to the mch that he was looking for is no don't swallow his load. He says he is undetectable which is great if its actually true, this is an early stage you dont know him yet so while you shouldnt get paranoid you also shouldnt get over confident either