Free Market and True Capitalism, vs Government and Crony Capitalism

  • 6packabs

    Posts: 216

    Oct 13, 2015 6:59 AM GMT
    I saw this post on FB, and I agree with the poster who agrees with Friedman. Anyone advocating socialism is a dumb-ass, or employed by the moneychangers who behind closed doors always advocate soul destroying socialism, for it enslaves all of us to the state, eradicates our independence, and seeks to make us slaves, dependent upon the good intentions of government and its officials:



    Now, from one of my political hero's who as Dwight Eisenhower's Secretary of Agriculture was hell bent against socialism being implemented in America, which had many hating him. But despite the religious tone or references, his stance and logic are spot on in my view. And yes, if you can't see this and you still advocate more and bigger government as a solution to your problems, excuse the offense, but you are a dumb-ass. Government is the greatest plague upon humanity today and poses the greatest threats we have to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness.

    Enjoy this gem and excerpt of a speech given by Benson:

    QUOTE AUTHOR GOES HERESocialism Disguised under Welfare State Measures
    As citizens of this noble land, we have marched a long way down the soul-destroying road of socialism. If you question that statement, consider the recent testimonial from the Nobel prize-winning economist, Milton Friedman. He indicated that government spending in the United States at all levels amounts to over forty percent of today’s total national income. If we continue to follow the trend in which we are heading today, two things will inevitably result: first, a loss of our personal freedom, and second, financial bankruptcy. This is the price we pay when we turn away from God and the principles which he has taught and turn to government to do everything for us. It is the formula by which nations become enslaved.

    This nation was established by the God of heaven as a citadel of liberty. A constitution guaranteeing those liberties was designed under the superintending influence of heaven. I have recounted here before what took place in the St. George Temple when the Founding Fathers of this nation visited President Wilford Woodruff, who was then a member of the Twelve and not president of the Church. The republic which was established was the most nearly perfect system which could have been devised to lead men toward celestial principles. We may liken our system to the law of Moses which leads men to the higher law of Christ.

    Today, two hundred years later, we must sadly observe that we have significantly departed from the principles established by the founders of our country. James Madison opposed the proposal to put Congress in the role of promoting the general welfare according to its whims in these words:

    If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every state, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasure; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor. . . . Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for [and it was an issue then], it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America. [quoted in Donald L. Newquist, Prophets, Principles, and National Survival, p. 342]

    That statement, given as a warning, has proved prophetic. Today Congress is doing what Madison warned about. Many are now advocating that which has become a general practice since the early 1930s: a redistribution of wealth through the federal tax system. That, by definition, is socialism!

    Americans have always been committed to taking care of the poor, aged, and unemployed. We have done this on the basis of Judaic-Christian beliefs and humanitarian principles. It has been fundamental to our way of life that charity must be voluntary if it is to be charity. Compulsory benevolence is not charity. Today’s socialists—who call themselves egalitarians—are using the federal government to redistribute wealth in our society, not as a matter of voluntary charity, but as a so-called matter of right. One HEW official said recently, “In this country, welfare is no longer charity, it is a right. More and more Americans feel that their government owes them something” (U.S. News and World Report, April 21, 1975, p. 49). President Grover Cleveland said—and we believe as a people—that though the people support the government the government should not support the people.

    The chief weapon used by the federal government to achieve this “equality” is the system of transfer payments. This means that the federal governments collects from one income group and transfer payments to another by the tax system. These payments are made in the form of social security benefits, Medicare and Medicaid, and food stamps, to name a few. Today the cost of such programs has been going in the hole at the rate of 12 billion dollars a year; and, with increased benefits and greater numbers of recipients, even though the tax base has been increased we will have larger deficits in the future.

    Today the party now in power is advocating and has support, apparently in both major parties, for a comprehensive national health insurance program—a euphemism for socialized medicine. Our major danger is that we are currently (and have been for forty years) transferring responsibility from the individual, local, and state governments to the federal government—precisely the same course that led to the economic collapse in Great Britain and New York City. We cannot long pursue the present trend without its bringing us to national insolvency.

    Edmund Burke, the great British political philosopher, warned of the threat of economic equality. He said,

    A perfect equality will indeed be produced—that is to say, equal wretchedness, equal beggary, and on the part of the petitioners, a woeful, helpless, and desperate disappointment. Such is the event of all compulsory equalizations. They pull down what is above; they never raise what is below; and they depress high and low together beneath the level of what was originally the lowest.

    https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/ezra-taft-benson_vision-hope-youth-zion/
  • gymnerd

    Posts: 136

    Oct 13, 2015 12:27 PM GMT
    I'm a dumb-ass...
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Oct 13, 2015 1:15 PM GMT
    lol yeah life was so wonderful under the thumbs of douche bags like John Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie

    idiot
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 13, 2015 1:19 PM GMT
    The moneychangers?

    El_Greco_Christ_Driving_the_Money_Change

    Have you been sniffing chemtrails again?

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4124873
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 13, 2015 1:29 PM GMT
    My opinion has always been that capitalism is a great system *if* it's tinged with just enough socialism to compensate for the inherent flaws in the design.

    Socialism tinged with capitalism doesn't work *nearly* as well - you need a profit-making core to be able to make the socialist add-ons work.

    The tricky part is balancing how *much* you want - too much socialism and it falls apart. Not enough, and it's just as bad as pure capitalism - there is a happy medium in there.

    Doctor9
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 13, 2015 1:33 PM GMT
    Phishing for Phools @ 0:44

    "People can be manipulative and deceptive...an economy actually incentivizes that...unless there's a civil society watching...It's a fundamental problem...with...free markets...That's why we need Heroes, people who stand up for what's right in business"~~Robert Shiller
  • MarvinMartian

    Posts: 128

    Oct 13, 2015 2:36 PM GMT
    Ignorant hogwash.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 13, 2015 2:37 PM GMT
    It's funny to see people extolling the wonders of capitalism over socialism. Socialism wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the horror show of unchecked capitalism.

    You want children working in mines? Construction workers dying because of lack of safety measures? Rivers so polluted, they start spontaneously burning? Power companies charging you twice the usual fee just because they can?

    Government regulation doesn't come from oppressive government. It comes from the unbearable consequences of greed. Any particular regulation may be wrong, but it is generally in reaction to something far worse.

    And, frankly, anyone who seeks the solution to today's problems in the opinion of someone who wrote 50 years ago is plain weird. Nostalgia is great when it comes to high school proms and first loves, but to take Milton Freedman's advice today would be like for him to take advice from pre-Depression economists.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 13, 2015 3:05 PM GMT
    A socialistic system funded by capitalistic economy is a successful model on many countries that share or exceed our standard of living. Canada for one. The trick is to maintain the balance and be mature enough to know that one philosophy does not solve all problems.
    We do not have to reinvent the wheel here, there are many working successful prototypes to crib from.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 13, 2015 8:19 PM GMT
    Capitalism is great - as long as there are laws and regulations in place to keep corrupt and greedy bastards from abusing the system and destroying the economy.
    Because there are ALWAYS going to be corrupt and greedy bastards on Wall Street and in corporate boardrooms.

    We saw all too well in the last decade what happens when the Repubs are able to go on an orgy of reckless deregulation.

    The GOP's "American Dream Downpayment Act" of 2003 - and other deregulation measures - brought on a housing crisis and a banking crisis and caused the worst economic meltdowm since the Great Depression.

    NEVER AGAIN.

  • ASHDOD

    Posts: 1057

    Oct 13, 2015 9:30 PM GMT
    fridman was a dumb ass' he ruined countries with his cruel capitalistic ideas
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 14, 2015 12:48 AM GMT
    The world doesn't fall into neat little categories or ideologies. It basically comes down to people that have money, and people that don't. Everyone here is the latter. People that have money are counting on us to fight amongst ourselves, while they keep profiting from us from behind the scenes.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 14, 2015 2:06 AM GMT
    The_Polaris saidCapitalism is great - as long as there are laws and regulations in place to keep corrupt and greedy bastards from abusing the system and destroying the economy.
    Because there are ALWAYS going to be corrupt and greedy bastards on Wall Street and in corporate boardrooms.

    We saw all too well in the last decade what happens when the Repubs are able to go on an orgy of reckless deregulation.

    The GOP's "American Dream Downpayment Act" of 2003 - and other deregulation measures - brought on a housing crisis and a banking crisis and caused the worst economic meltdowm since the Great Depression.

    NEVER AGAIN.




    +1, I agree, balance

    "corrupt and greedy bastards". If the "rest of us" are fair, honest and have a conscience, how do the corrupt and greedy become this way? It must take "a lot of evil thought" to chose to be corrupt and greedy? Its not something you are born with, is it? a cure?


    scales__15_


  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 14, 2015 5:27 PM GMT
    Capitalism incentivizes. It is creative, it spurs innovation and is responsible for the growth of civilization. But capitalism is heartless. Socialism tempers that.
  • rip12

    Posts: 63

    Oct 15, 2015 1:10 AM GMT
    NEVER AGAIN.

    this is laughable - obviously a whole lot of people either dont understand basic economics, arent paying attention, or a combination of both

    its happening "again" right in front of your eyes and you dont even see it coming

    this is whats really scary
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3529

    Oct 17, 2015 1:28 AM GMT
    So in a capitalist society wouldnt most of the rich people be DEAD? With no police, firemen, vaccines, contracts, obligations, to protect all their assets from the peasants? I mean you could just go up to the rich guy's house, shoot his family and just LIVE There. (Or with a long rifle when he leaves the fortress). Capitalists cry for socialism at the first hint of its disappearance. Remember, all the RULES are socialism, and they and their lawyers really like rules, it is how they stay rich.

    cf. THE PURGE
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Oct 17, 2015 1:38 AM GMT

    We're all socialists. "Socialism" is a buzz word used to frighten children and inflame non-thinkers and right-wingers.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/16/opinion/guess-who-else-is-a-socialist.html?ref=opinion
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14380

    Oct 20, 2015 6:05 PM GMT
    Doctor9 saidMy opinion has always been that capitalism is a great system *if* it's tinged with just enough socialism to compensate for the inherent flaws in the design.

    Socialism tinged with capitalism doesn't work *nearly* as well - you need a profit-making core to be able to make the socialist add-ons work.

    The tricky part is balancing how *much* you want - too much socialism and it falls apart. Not enough, and it's just as bad as pure capitalism - there is a happy medium in there.

    Doctor9
    Good, valid points +2,000,000