CNN: ISIS planted bomb in plane

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 04, 2015 10:50 PM GMT
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/04/politics/us-isis-planted-bomb-russian-plane/index.html

    Not that most of us didn't suspect this from the beginning.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 04, 2015 10:51 PM GMT
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/03/new-tsa-chief-vows-fixes-after-ig-airport-inspections-find-missing-security/
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 04, 2015 11:45 PM GMT
    If was a bomb - how do we know who planted it?

    Lots of people hate Putin and the Russians - Chechnians, Georgians, Ukranians, ISIS, Free Syrian Army to list a few.

    All we can know now is that ISIS was close by - but the city the airliner took off from is hardly muddy jungle strip - In a major tourist area . Any terrorist could have gotten to it. Maybe the bomb was first planted in Russia, and only set to detonate after a certain number of altitude changes.

  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Nov 05, 2015 2:26 PM GMT
    This is pretty scary stuff, but I don't doubt that it's a precursor to the evils and nasty things to come probably sooner rather than later. These terrorists are a cancer on civilization
  • trvlmscl

    Posts: 136

    Nov 05, 2015 10:07 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    CuriousJockAZ saidThis is pretty scary stuff, but I don't doubt that it's a precursor to the evils and nasty things to come probably sooner rather than later. These terrorists are a cancer on civilization



    "ISIS is the JV league in terms of terrorist groups."

    - Barack Obama



    Why do you feel the need to bring this up?

    How about "I am saddened by the loss of the victims in this catastrophe" instead of an outdated quote from someone we ALL KNOW you don't like. Get over it.

    How about:

    "WMD"
    - George Bush

    I'd love to see how many people have blocked your posts on this site. I'll probably be next on the list.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 05, 2015 10:17 PM GMT
    trvlmscl said
    southbeach1500 said
    CuriousJockAZ saidThis is pretty scary stuff, but I don't doubt that it's a precursor to the evils and nasty things to come probably sooner rather than later. These terrorists are a cancer on civilization



    "ISIS is the JV league in terms of terrorist groups."

    - Barack Obama



    Why do you feel the need to bring this up?

    How about "I am saddened by the loss of the victims in this catastrophe" instead of an outdated quote from someone we ALL KNOW you don't like. Get over it.

    How about:

    "WMD"
    - George Bush


    I'd love to see how many people have blocked your posts on this site. I'll probably be next on the list.



    Sorry I'm late



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 12:48 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Sorry I'm late




    Now why bring up 13-year-old statements, that were in response to the disinformation being disseminated by Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld? That we now know were total lies, meant to deceive Congress, the US people, the United Nations, and the world at large?

    Why aren't you blaming the Bush Administration for perpetrating this travesty, that resulted in 2 unnecessary wars, the deaths of thousands of US service members, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans, at a cost of trillions to US taxpayers, and a skyrocketing US debt.

    And Bush never did take out Osama bin Laden, the real author of 9/11. It took Obama to do it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 12:52 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    freedomisntfree said
    Sorry I'm late




    Now why bring up 13-year-old statements, that were in response to the disinformation being disseminated by Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld? That we now know were total lies, meant to deceive Congress, the US people, the United Nations, and the world at large?



    Funny though, 1998? You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe George W. was governor of Texas. I had no idea that he had that kind of clout over international 'intelligence' collection' and dissemination.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 12:53 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Art_Deco said
    freedomisntfree said
    Sorry I'm late




    Now why bring up 13-year-old statements, that were in response to the disinformation being disseminated by Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld? That we now know were total lies, meant to deceive Congress, the US people, the United Nations, and the world at large?



    Funny though, 1998? You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe George W. was governor of Texas in 1998. I had no idea that he had that kind of clout over international 'intelligence' collection' and dissemination.

    Must have been that 'other' party

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 12:58 AM GMT
    Since you have a mac and your vid player obviously doesn't work, I'll do it this way

    http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm

    Democrat Quotes on Iraq

    Weapons of Mass Destruction

    "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
    --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

    "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
    --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

    "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
    --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

    "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
    --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

    "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
    Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
    -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

    "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
    -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

    "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
    -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

    "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
    Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
    -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

    "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
    -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

    "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
    -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
    -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
    -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

    "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
    -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

    "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
    -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

    "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
    -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

    "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
    -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
    -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

    "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
    -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

    "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
    -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 1:03 AM GMT
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

    "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
    President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

    "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
    President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

    "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
    Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

    "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
    Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

    "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
    Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.

    "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
    Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

    "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
    Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.

    "There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
    Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.

    "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
    Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.

    "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
    Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

    "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
    Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction."
    Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

    "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
    Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

    "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
    Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

    "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
    Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,

    "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
    Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.

    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
    Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

    "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
    Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 1:05 AM GMT
    http://www.independentsentinel.com/democrats-and-bush-were-right-there-were-wmds-in-iraq/

    Democrats and Bush Were Right! There Were WMDs in Iraq!
    by S. Noble • June 20, 2014



    Iraqi Prime Minister Al-Maliki with President Barack Obama

    We were told two days ago that ISIS now has control of a WMD factory with chemical weapons. This is after being told there were no WMDs in Iraq and then being told they were all destroyed by the US and coalition forces. Now that Iraq is a complete disaster, we are again being told George W. Bush is solely responsible. We are being fed lies.

    There were WMDs found in Iraq as late as 2008 according to The Atlantic which went through a trove of documents uncovered by wikileaks. From 2004 – 2008, WMDs were unearthed. In 2011, Hillary admitted that there were WMDs in Iraq.

    They were relatively small stockpiles, according to The Atlantic, a liberal publication.

    They were supposedly all destroyed.

    Now we are being told that ISIS occupied Saddam’s loaded chemical weapons facility in Muthanna, Iraq and they were in control of the weapons.

    That must be a nonexistent WMD factory since George Bush was demonized for saying there were WMDs in Iraq.

    The factory contains mustard gas, sarin, Tabun and VX.

    The toxins are allegedly degraded and not usable. They would present more of a danger to anyone trying to use them, we are being told.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 1:06 AM GMT
    SO .......



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 1:09 AM GMT
    http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/bombshell-new-york-times-reports-wmds-found-iraq/

    BOMBSHELL: New York Times Reports WMDs WERE Found in Iraq!
    By Alexa Coombs


    How many times have we been told that there were no weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq? I’m pretty sure I’ve heard it millions of times. I’ve read stories here and there over the last several years about WMDs being found, but of course it never got much news coverage – until now.

    The New York Times shockingly admitted in an explosive front page report that thousands of WMDs were found in Iraq since the start of the war:

    From 2004 to 2011, American and American-trained Iraqi troops repeatedly encountered, and on at least six occasions were wounded by, chemical weapons remaining from years earlier in Saddam Hussein’s rule.
    In all, American troops secretly reported finding roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs, according to interviews with dozens of participants, Iraqi and American officials, and heavily redacted intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.
    So, now it needs to be repeated millions of times: there WERE WMDs found in Iraq! But of course The Times couldn’t admit that their discovery vindicates President Bush. Instead they claim that these WMDs don’t count and that an active WMD program was the only rationale for the Iraq War:

    The discoveries of these chemical weapons did not support the government’s invasion rationale.
    After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Mr. Bush insisted that Mr. Hussein was hiding an active weapons of mass destruction program, in defiance of international will and at the world’s risk. United Nations inspectors said they could not find evidence for these claims.
    Oh, really? Well, it sounds to me in UN Resolution 1441, adopted November 8, 2002, that there was concern about an active WMD program, but a key point of contention with Iraq in the decade after the 1991 Gulf War was the WMDs that had been left over (the ones The Times reports as being found during the Iraq War). Iraq had repeatedly refused to disarm and destroy its WMDs, even kicking out UN inspectors between 1998 and 2002. Some key excerpts from the resolution:

    Deploring the fact that Iraq has not provided an accurate, full, final, and complete disclosure, as required by resolution 687 (1991), of all aspects of its programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles with a range greater than one hundred and fifty kilometres, and of all holdings of such weapons, their components and production facilities and locations, as well as all other nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to nuclear-weapons-usable material …
    3. Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material; …

    – UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to be provided by Iraq the names of all personnel currently and formerly associated with Iraq’s chemical, biological, nuclear, and ballistic missile programmes and the associated research, development, and production facilities;
    In President Bush’s speech to the UN on September 12, 2002, a huge chunk of his case was about Iraq violating its agreement to be transparent and disarm and destroy all WMDs after the Gulf War, maintaining stockpiles (like the thousands that The New York Times reported on!), improving facilities that could be used to produce WMDs, and not complying with UN weapons inspectors:

    In 1991, the Iraqi regime agreed to destroy and stop developing all weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles, and to prove to the world it has done so by complying with rigorous inspections. Iraq has broken every aspect of this fundamental pledge.
    From 1991 to 1995, the Iraqi regime said it had no biological weapons. After a senior official in its weapons program defected and exposed this lie, the regime admitted to producing tens of thousands of liters of anthrax and other deadly biological agents for use with Scud warheads, aerial bombs, and aircraft spray tanks. U.N. inspectors believe Iraq has produced two to four times the amount of biological agents it declared, and has failed to account for more than three metric tons of material that could be used to produce biological weapons. Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.

    United Nations’ inspections also revealed that Iraq likely maintains stockpiles of VX, mustard and other chemical agents, and that the regime is rebuilding and expanding facilities capable of producing chemical weapons. …

    In 1991, Iraq promised U.N. inspectors immediate and unrestricted access to verify Iraq’s commitment to rid itself of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles. Iraq broke this promise, spending seven years deceiving, evading, and harassing U.N. inspectors before ceasing cooperation entirely. Just months after the 1991 cease-fire, the Security Council twice renewed its demand that the Iraqi regime cooperate fully with inspectors, condemning Iraq’s serious violations of its obligations. The Security Council again renewed that demand in 1994, and twice more in 1996, deploring Iraq’s clear violations of its obligations. The Security Council renewed its demand three more times in 1997, citing flagrant violations; and three more times in 1998, calling Iraq’s behavior totally unacceptable. And in 1999, the demand was renewed yet again.
    On the eve of the Iraq War, President Bush laid out his case to the American people. Again, the focus was on disarmament and Iraq’s possession of WMDs:

    My fellow citizens, events in Iraq have now reached the final days of decision. For more than a decade, the United States and other nations have pursued patient and honorable efforts to disarm the Iraqi regime without war. That regime pledged to reveal and destroy all its weapons of mass destruction as a condition for ending the Persian Gulf War in 1991. Since then, the world has engaged in 12 years of diplomacy. We have passed more than a dozen resolutions in the United Nations Security Council. We have sent hundreds of weapons inspectors to oversee the disarmament of Iraq. Our good faith has not been returned.
    The Iraqi regime has used diplomacy as a ploy to gain time and advantage. It has uniformly defied Security Council resolutions demanding full disarmament. Over the years, U.N. weapon inspectors have been threatened by Iraqi officials, electronically bugged, and systematically deceived. Peaceful efforts to disarm the Iraqi regime have failed again and again — because we are not dealing with peaceful men.

    Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. This regime has already used weapons of mass destruction against Iraq’s neighbors and against Iraq’s people.
    For The New York Times to say, “The disco
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 1:10 AM GMT
    https://theintercept.com/2015/04/10/twelve-years-later-u-s-media-still-cant-get-iraqi-wmd-story-right/


    TWELVE YEARS LATER, US MEDIA STILL CAN’T GET IRAQI WMD STORY RIGHT

    Jon Schwarz
    Apr. 10 2015, 12:09 p.m.


    This past fall The New York Times began publishing a powerful, ongoing series revealing the U.S. military’s mistreatment of soldiers who were exposed to decades-old chemical weapons during Operation Iraqi Freedom. According to The Times, between 2004 and 2011 U.S. troops stumbled across about 5,000 Iraqi chemical munitions of various types, and at least 17 American personnel, mostly bomb disposal experts, were wounded by them. All of the ordnance was manufactured by Iraq prior to the 1991 Gulf War, during the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s.

    Much of the conservative media has seized on the Times articles as long-awaited, sweet vindication of Bush’s case for war. According to Rush Limbaugh, it is now proven that “Saddam Hussein was doing and had done pretty much everything he was being accused of that justified that invasion.”

    And the conservative glee is understandable: after all, Bush said Iraq had WMD, and here they are. Unfortunately for the right, however, they are just as wrong about this issue now as they were in 2003 — but for a peculiar, little-understood reason: Saddam Hussein was not trying to hide the chemical munitions found by the U.S. Just the opposite, in fact.

    In an interview with The Intercept, Charles Duelfer, head of the CIA’s definitive post-war investigation of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs, explained that “Saddam didn’t know he had it … This is stuff Iraqi leaders did not know was left lying around. It was not a militarily significant capability that they were, as a matter of national policy, hiding.”

    It is long established that Iraq — with assistance from the U.S. and other Western countries — produced enormous quantities of chemical weapons during its eight-year war with Iran in the 1980s. After Iraq was expelled from Kuwait during the Gulf War in 1991, the United Nations Security Council sent inspectors to ensure that Iraq disclosed and destroyed its entire chemical (and biological and nuclear) weapons programs. Iraq repeatedly said that it had done so, while the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations claimed it was still hiding pre-1991 weaponry.

    Discarded shells and cement filled tanks litter the Al-Muthanna State Establishment 40 miles, 70 kilometers northwest of Baghdad after UN weapon inspectors entered the complex Wednesday Dec. 4, 2002. the Al-Muthanna complex was the main production facility for chemical and biological agent production in the 1990s. Previous weapon inspection teams rendered the facility inoperative. Previous weapon inspection teams rendered the facility inoperative. Looters unleashed last year by the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq overran the sprawling desert complex where a bunker sealed by U.N. monitors held old chemical weapons, American arms inspectors report in Sept. 2004. (AP Photo/Jerome Delay) The inoperative Al Muthanna chemical weapons complex in December 2002, after a visit by U.N. weapons inspectors and shortly before the U.S. invasion. (Photo: Jerome Delay/AP)
    The chemical ordnance described in the Times series falls into two categories:

    The first was munitions that had been sealed in bunkers at Iraq’s Al Muthanna weapons complex by U.N. inspectors during the 1990s. The inspectors destroyed enormous quantities of chemical weapons at Al Muthanna between 1992 and 1994, including 480,000 litres of live chemical weapons agent, but some could not be incinerated because it was too dangerous to move it. The U.N. and U.S. knew these chemical weapons were there, Saddam Hussein knew they knew, and there was no way for the Iraqi military to access them without the world immediately finding out. But after the invasion the U.S. failed to secure the site, and insurgents broke into the bunkers to retrieve some of the munitions. This is well-known to anyone who follows this issue closely. However, the U.S. media, as Duelfer puts it, periodically “rediscover this and get excited about it.” (The Intercept explained some aspects of the remaining Al Muthanna munitions last fall.)

    The second category was simply ordnance that the Iraqi military had lost track of. Says Duelfer, “Keeping in mind that they used 101,000 munitions in the Iran-Iraq War … it’s not really surprising that they have imperfect accounting. I bet the U.S. couldn’t keep track of many of its weapons produced and used during a war.” And as the Times series notes, Iraq’s chemical shells often looked identical to its conventional ones: “An X-ray of internal features was sometimes the only way to tell [the difference].”

    The Saddam Hussein regime was well aware of this issue when U.N. inspectors returned to Iraq in 2002, and knew that it would be disastrous for the Iraqi government if the U.N. found such prohibited weapons — even if the regime had been unaware such weapons existed. Duelfer’s Iraq Survey Group reported that four months before the March 2003 invasion, Saddam ordered his top officials “to cooperate completely” with inspectors, with army commanders required “to ensure their units retained no evidence of old WMD.” (Colin Powell played intercepted audio of Iraqi soldiers discussing this at his infamous U.N. presentation but doctored the translation to make it appear suspicious; in fact, the soldiers were following Saddam’s orders to make certain they did not accidentally have chemical munitions mixed in with their conventional ones.)

    But to locate all of Iraq’s old chemical ordnance was an impossible task. As Duelfer’s report predicted in 2004, the U.S. would continue to find chemical shells — not because the Saddam Hussein regime had been hiding them, but because they had been “abandoned, forgotten and lost during the Iran-Iraq war [since] tens of thousands of CW munitions were forward deployed along the frequently and rapidly shifting battle lines.”

    As Duelfer points out, the U.S. military itself is itself not immune to losing things; the federal government’s General Accounting Office found $1.2 billion worth of equipment was misplaced in just the first year of Operation Iraqi Freedom. And in a situation oddly analogous to the munitions found in Iraq, in 1993 contractors digging the foundations for new mansions in one of Washington, D.C.’s most expensive neighborhoods discovered a cache of chemical weapons manufactured by the U.S. Army in 1918. Similarly, during the 2004-11 period in which 5,000 chemical munitions were found in Iraq, about the same number dating from World War I were apparently found in Europe.

    But the conservative media is not alone in its confusion about WMD in Iraq — many centrist and liberal media publications also misunderstood the issue. Outlets such as Salon, MSNBC, The New Republic, The Christian Science Monitor, The Washington Post and The Times itself all accurately reported that the Times series did not vindicate the case for war. However, their recollection of what Bush’s justification for war actually was — as the Times put it, “Mr. Bush insisted that Mr. Hussein was hiding an active weapons of mass destruction program” — is not the whole story, either.

    It’s certainly true that most of the Bush administration’s justification for war was that Iraq had active, post-1991 WMD programs. However, the administration also repeatedly claimed that Iraq was hiding elements of its pre-1991 chemical warfare program. In his State of the Union address two months before the invasion, Bush accused Iraq of concealing “30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents” from before the Gulf War. Colin Powell spoke of those munitions in his U.N. address, as well as “550 artillery shells with
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 1:14 AM GMT
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/16/world/cia-is-said-to-have-bought-and-destroyed-iraqi-chemical-weapons.html

    C.I.A. Is Said to Have Bought and Destroyed Iraqi Chemical Weapons
    By C. J. CHIVERS and ERIC SCHMITTFEB. 15, 2015


    United Nations workers prepared for the destruction of Iraqi nerve-agent weapons by sealing leaks in the rockets. Credit British Ministry of Defense

    The Central Intelligence Agency, working with American troops during the occupation of Iraq, repeatedly purchased nerve-agent rockets from a secretive Iraqi seller, part of a previously undisclosed effort to ensure that old chemical weapons remaining in Iraq did not fall into the hands of terrorists or militant groups, according to current and former American officials.



    The extraordinary arms purchase plan, known as Operation Avarice, began in 2005 and continued into 2006, and the American military deemed it a nonproliferation success. It led to the United States’ acquiring and destroying at least 400 Borak rockets, one of the internationally condemned chemical weapons that Saddam Hussein’s Baathist government manufactured in the 1980s but that were not accounted for by United Nations inspections mandated after the 1991 Persian Gulf war.

    Continue reading the main story
    RELATED COVERAGE

    Army and Navy technicians prepare unexploded ordnance for demolition in 2003 near Baghdad.The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical WeaponsOCT. 14, 2014
    Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel at a news conference last week. A review he ordered uncovered the reports of exposure.More Than 600 Reported Chemical Exposure in Iraq, Pentagon AcknowledgesNOV. 6, 2014
    Thousands of Iraq Chemical Weapons Destroyed in Open Air, Watchdog Says NOV. 22, 2014
    A Navy explosive ordnance disposal team in 2004, sealing the sarin shell that had wounded Sergeant Burns and Private Yandell.Reporters' Notebook: Examining a Rare Nerve-Agent Shell That Wounded American Troops in IraqDEC. 4, 2014
    Daniel Mould, a former member of an explosive ordnance disposal team, was wounded by a chemical round in Delaware in 2004.A Veteran’s Chemical Burns Expanded Military Doctors’ Knowledge, but His Care FalteredDEC. 30, 2014
    The effort was run out of the C.I.A. station in Baghdad in collaboration with the Army’s 203rd Military Intelligence Battalion and teams of chemical-defense and explosive ordnance disposal troops, officials and veterans of the units said. Many rockets were in poor condition and some were empty or held a nonlethal liquid, the officials said. But others contained the nerve agent sarin, which analysis showed to be purer than the intelligence community had expected given the age of the stock.

    Continue reading the main story
    Weapons Bought
    The buying of nerve-agent rockets from an Iraqi seller in 2006 was the most significant recovery of chemical weapons until that point in the Iraq War.


    Chemical weapons
    recovered monthly
    250
    200
    Weapons bought
    Earlier recoveries
    150
    100
    50
    May
    2004
    Jan.
    2005
    Jan.
    2006
    Source: Interviews. Data by the Organization
    A New York Times investigation published in October found that the military had recovered thousands of old chemical warheads and shells in Iraq and that Americans and Iraqis had been wounded by them, but the government kept much of this information secret, from the public and troops alike.

    These munitions were remnants of an Iraqi special weapons program that was abandoned long before the 2003 invasion, and they turned up sporadically during the American occupation in buried caches, as part of improvised bombs or on black markets.

    The potency of sarin samples from the purchases, as well as tightly held assessments about risks the munitions posed, buttresses veterans’ claims that during the war the military did not share important intelligence about battlefield perils with those at risk or maintain an adequate medical system for treating victims of chemical exposure.

    The purchases were made from a sole Iraqi source who was eager to sell his stock, officials said. The amount of money that the United States paid for the rockets is not publicly known, and neither are the affiliations of the seller.

    Most of the officials and veterans who spoke about the program did so anonymously because, they said, the details remain classified. The C.I.A. declined to comment. The Pentagon, citing continuing secrecy about the effort, did not answer written questions and acknowledged its role only obliquely.

    “Without speaking to any specific programs, it is fair to say that together with our coalition partners in Iraq, the U.S. military worked diligently to find and remove weapons that could be used against our troops and the Iraqi people,” Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary, said in a written statement.

    Advertisement

    Continue reading the main story
    Retired Army Lt. Gen. Richard P. Zahner, the top American military intelligence officer in Iraq in 2005 and 2006, said he did not know of any other intelligence program as successful in reducing the chemical weapons that remained in Iraq after the American-led invasion.

    Through the C.I.A.’s purchases, General Zahner said, hundreds of weapons with potential use for terrorists were quietly taken off the market. “This was a timely and effective initiative by our national intelligence partners that negated the use of these unique munitions,” he said.

    Photo

    An image from the 1990s showing the destruction of Iraqi nerve-agent weapons. Credit UNSCOM
    Not long after Operation Avarice had secured its 400th rocket, in 2006, American troops were exposed several times to other chemical weapons. Many of these veterans said that they had not been warned by their units about the risks posed by the chemical weapons and that their medical care and follow-up were substandard, in part because military doctors seemed unaware that chemical munitions remained in Iraq.

    In some cases, victims of exposure said, officers forbade them to discuss what had occurred. The Pentagon now says hundreds of other veterans reported on health-screening forms that they believed they too had been exposed during the war.

    Aaron Stein, an associate fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, said the belated acknowledgment of a chemical-rocket purchases, as well as the potentially worrisome laboratory analysis of the related sarin samples, raised questions about the military’s commitment to the well-being of those it sent to war.

    “If we were aware of these compounds, and as it became clear over the course of the war that our troops had been exposed to them, why wasn’t more done to protect the guys on the ground?” he said. “It speaks to the broader failure.”

    The first purchase under Operation Avarice, according to veterans and officials familiar with the effort, occurred in early September 2005, when an Iraqi man provided a single Borak. The warhead presented intelligence analysts with fresh insight into a longstanding mystery.

    During its war against Iran in the 1980s, Iraq had fielded multiple variants of 122-millimeter rockets designed to disperse nerve agents.

    The Borak warheads, which are roughly 40 inches long and attach to a motor compatible with the common Grad multiple rocket launcher system, were domestically produced. But no clear picture ever emerged of how many Iraq manufactured or how many it fired during the Iran-Iraq war.

    In confidential declarations in the 1990s to the United Nations, Iraq gave shifting production numbers, up to 18,500. It also claimed to have destroyed its remaining stock before international inspectors arrived after the Persian Gulf war.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 1:23 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    freedomisntfree said
    Sorry I'm late




    Now why bring up 13-year-old statements, that were in response to the disinformation being disseminated by Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld? That we now know were total lies, meant to deceive Congress, the US people, the United Nations, and the world at large?

    Why aren't you blaming the Bush Administration for perpetrating this travesty, that resulted in 2 unnecessary wars, the deaths of thousands of US service members, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans, at a cost of trillions to US taxpayers, and a skyrocketing US debt.

    And Bush never did take out Osama bin Laden, the real author of 9/11. It took Obama to do it.


    "Why aren't you blaming the Bush Administration for perpetrating this travesty"






    "And Bush never did take out Osama bin Laden, the real author of 9/11. It took Obama to do it."

    ButT he got KSM, the dewd who actually put this (9-11) together. If it weren't for the apparatus that Bush / Cheney put together, Obama would have never gotten OBL either.

    Why didn't Clinton get him after the first trade center bombing in 1993. OBL was the author of that one. He clearly had the chance.

    But much bigger question is how many fukin times would you like to re-litigate this? 10,000? 20,000?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2015 2:44 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    CuriousJockAZ saidThis is pretty scary stuff, but I don't doubt that it's a precursor to the evils and nasty things to come probably sooner rather than later. These terrorists are a cancer on civilization



    "ISIS is the JV league in terms of terrorist groups."

    - Barack Obama



    Obama's Red Line is now at the door of the White House with ISIS taking large parts of Syria:


    Obama has provided himself security for life, where is ours:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-restores-lifetime-secret-service-for-former-presidents/
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 07, 2015 11:52 PM GMT
    I wish I had a £ for every time FIF has posted those vids. Of course, what he won't tell you is that more Dems in Congress voted against the Iraq War resolution than voted for it.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/H.J.Res._114_Iraq_Resolution_Votes_October_2002.png
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 08, 2015 12:28 AM GMT
    Sorry I'm late.






  • Apparition

    Posts: 3525

    Nov 08, 2015 3:30 AM GMT

    dont quote every post please, so annoying. we all read the thread.

    it doesnt matter who said what, when, or whatever. all the terrorists are formerly on the government payroll, and so will the next ones before they turn. The us should just give the army money to the oil companies, and cut out the middle man. Ban travel to anywhere outside the g7 sphere, and there will never be terrorists ever again.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 08, 2015 4:22 AM GMT
    Apparition said
    dont quote every post please, so annoying. we all read the thread.

    it doesnt matter who said what, when, or whatever. all the terrorists are formerly on the government payroll, and so will the next ones before they turn. The us should just give the army money to the oil companies, and cut out the middle man. Ban travel to anywhere outside the g7 sphere, and there will never be terrorists ever again.


    You got a point there, but given that this has come up about 10.000 times since 1998, I thought maybe I should try to be as annoying as possible.