Man commits suicide after court-ordered Christian drug treatment program tried to ‘un-gay’ him

  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Nov 08, 2015 11:20 PM GMT
    Man commits suicide after court-ordered Christian drug treatment program tried to ‘un-gay’ him


    "Instead of being a nation founded on religious freedom, we are becoming a nation sentencing its citizens to religion."


    http://deadstate.org/man-commits-suicide-after-court-ordered-christian-drug-treatment-program-tried-to-un-gay-him/
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    Nov 09, 2015 1:36 AM GMT
    One has to read just about the whole article in the NY Times, before one is finally be able to figure out that the guy was in a court in Knoxville, Tennessee, and it was the prosecutor who offered the deal: Enter this religious indoctrination program or spend a year in jail. And we know that in Tennessee the officials haven't heard of the first amendment.

    What is outrageous, is that judges ruled that the mother could''t sue in court, because he had "voluntarily" entered the program, and the religious program had an "arbitration" clause, saying that all disputes with them had to be ruled on by some rinkey-dink religious arbitration system.

    (The dead guy was subjected to all kinds of abuse in the program long hours of phyiscal labor with no pay to make money for the organization, religious indoctrination, forced to take "herbal remedies" - and nobody would tell anyone how he ended up hundreds of miles away from where he was supposed to be staying, dying of a drug overdose.)

    Christian fundies - you've got to hand it to them - they have some good rackets.
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    Nov 09, 2015 1:56 AM GMT
    How is that legal for a judge to order such a thing?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 09, 2015 4:57 AM GMT

    icon_rolleyes.gif


    ""A lot of people who go into prison Straight Atheist and when they come out, they’re Gay Christian, so did something happen while they were in there? Ask yourself that question""

    tumblr_mjsgpy8kjc1qla2fdo1_500.gif


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 09, 2015 12:09 PM GMT
    This is a very sad story and is only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak...."Arbitration Clauses" are widely used in many types of business dealing instead of traditional litigation....This "religious brand" is just a new wrinkle in a legal remedy system, that has gotten way out of hand.
    The next time you open a credit card, or even your current credit cards, check the small print governing your rights to dispute.....It may very well NOT be in the courts, but in the ARBITRATION process the company owns and runs. Als, your employer may use an arbitration process, that will preclude any court involvement...sometimes this is part of being in a Union......there are many more examples....Be careful when you sign paperwork , the Arbitration clauses will effect your rights....and religion is just another corrupt institution that is using this as a way to skirt a justice system it sees as too secular....
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 09, 2015 1:13 PM GMT
    problem is that treatment is based on religion, not science. take 12 steps for instance.

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    Nov 09, 2015 5:16 PM GMT
    From the article...tragically found the next morning dead from drugs and alcohol by a stranger he’d met the night before.


    I found absolutely nothing in the article that confirms this is a suicide and not an accidental overdose. I agree with the point that courts should not order people to undergo religious brainwashing, but sensationalist claims really don't help.

    One way to read the article is: kid has a drug and alcohol problem. Commits some crime, for which he's sentenced. Violates parole by driving drunk into four cars. The judge offers him a last chance in a religious program. He starts there and things are getting better (the excerpt from the letter is hopeful). Then he has some kind of falling out, leaves the program, goes on a bender, and dies.

    How is that a suicide?

    Also not clear: what was the outcome of the arbitration? The mother may not be able to go to secular court, but she can ask the questions she wants and needs to ask at arbitration.
  • Whipmagic

    Posts: 1481

    Nov 10, 2015 1:24 AM GMT
    Plain and simple: courts should not be allowed to require anyone to take part in any religion-based activity. District Attorneys everywhere use the threat of serious jail time to force minor offenders into religious programs all the time - courts should not condone any such deals.
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    Nov 11, 2015 4:24 PM GMT
    themachine said
    From the article...tragically found the next morning dead from drugs and alcohol by a stranger he’d met the night before.


    I found absolutely nothing in the article that confirms this is a suicide and not an accidental overdose. I agree with the point that courts should not order people to undergo religious brainwashing, but sensationalist claims really don't help.

    One way to read the article is: kid has a drug and alcohol problem. Commits some crime, for which he's sentenced. Violates parole by driving drunk into four cars. The judge offers him a last chance in a religious program. He starts there and things are getting better (the excerpt from the letter is hopeful). Then he has some kind of falling out, leaves the program, goes on a bender, and dies.

    How is that a suicide?

    Also not clear: what was the outcome of the arbitration? The mother may not be able to go to secular court, but she can ask the questions she wants and needs to ask at arbitration.


    good point. also, who's to say he wouldn't have committed suicide if he hadn't been in the treatment? lgbt suicide rates are generally higher. but even by this story, it sounds like he just pnp'ed too hard. this guy died the same way lots of gay porn stars die. sad.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2015 5:41 PM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    I'd agree with themachine that it's not suicide per se but I think that goes to a bigger question of what is suicide, death by hanging, too many pills, death by cigarettes, death by soda. Then as an aside, the religious aspect to that being so stupid that they'd bless the guy dead of lung cancer but damn the guy who consciously overdosed. Such judgmental bullshit.

    Whether suicide consciously attempted or simply fate tempted or not, was that incline increased by any anti-gay harassment of the "therapy". So even if not a technical suicide as is the holy reprieve of those who knowingly smoke themselves to death, is there a contributory factor which might be criminally investigated?

    I'm not sure about the arbitration here. Did the kid sign himself in, being an adult or did the mother sign something as well. And if he was an adult, did her signature mean anything. Why would she be bound to the technical legalities of something her adult kid signed up for? Had he been declared incompetent that she had to sign for him or did she sign under duress? Was she scammed into signing? She hadn't signed herself up for the program which would bind her to arbitration so what stops her from suing those assholes?

    As to the courts ordering the kid to a religious institution, this is fucking bullshit. The separation of church and state needs to be reinstalled into the framework of this country as was intended by our founders and from which it has been aborted.