The Trials of Ted Haggard

  • Thriller83

    Posts: 71

    Feb 03, 2009 12:25 AM GMT
    Did anyone see the documentry on HBO? I actualy found myself pittying this man dispite the things he has said and done. Talk about falling hard. I especialy felt bad for his family. Seems rather crule to actualy banish Ted Haggard AND his family from the entire state of CO. Why are they being punished for HIS actions?

    If also found it interesting that he still admits to having same sex attraction, he just doesn't act upon them (as far as we know)
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    Feb 03, 2009 1:31 AM GMT
    LMAO.

    Ted Haggard. An example of how false belief systems can really make you a mess.
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    Feb 03, 2009 1:36 AM GMT
    I'll admit throwing out the whole family was a bit nuts. Regardless, he still has to take responsibility for his gimmick and live with the consequences.

    Moral of the story: don't be a lying, hypocritical sack of shit. It all comes right back around to fuck you hard up the ass--literally.
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    Feb 03, 2009 1:41 AM GMT
    I haven't seen the documentary, but I have a question. How does the church have any authority to expel Ted Haggard and his family from the state of Colorado? The church has no civil authority.
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    Feb 03, 2009 1:42 AM GMT
    Perhaps you should ponder all the pain and anguish that false belief systems and folks like Haggard have caused weak-minded folks.

    He got less than he deserved. He's a liar. He's a hypocrite. He's all the wrong things that a person should be. He got a dose of his own medicine, and it served him right.

    He was laughable on Larry King Live.
  • drakutis

    Posts: 586

    Feb 03, 2009 1:42 AM GMT
    I saw him on "Oprah" and that was enough for me! There is something very disarming about him though, and I felt sorry for him and his family. There is no way that I would have gone back to that church after making an entire family go through that hardship.

    As far as acting on them, if he isn't, he's probably choking the chicken every day and twice on Sundays!
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    Feb 03, 2009 1:43 AM GMT
    drakutis saidI saw him on "Oprah" and that was enough for me! There is something very disarming about him though, and I felt sorry for him and his family. There is no way that I would have gone back to that church after making an entire family go through that hardship.

    As far as acting on them, if he isn't, he's probably choking the chicken every day and twice on Sundays!


    And the only woman he's thinking about when he does is Liza Minnelli.
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    Feb 03, 2009 2:10 AM GMT
    I've read that the New Life Church gave Haggard a severance package as part of his resignation deal. The church insisted on a clause that required him to leave the Colorado Springs area, not the entire state.

    But he owns a house in Colorado Springs, still unsold I believe, and having no better place to live in a state where he'd become so unpopular, he looked elsewhere for a home & employment. His family accompanied him.

    That's how I understand the story. The church had no civil authority to compel him to relocate, but used the severance package to induce him to accept those terms "voluntarily."
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    Feb 03, 2009 2:43 AM GMT
    My understanding is that after the HBO documentary was made, it emerged that Haggard had lied about a relationship he also had with a young congregation member. The church learned about it when the initial scandal broke and kept it quiet, essentially paying off the young guy. I read that the documentary was going to add something at the end of the film acknowledging the additional material.

    I find it difficult to feel sorry for someone who preached hate and added to the difficulty of gay people. Haggard had a choice about how to respond to this. He could have been open and made an effort to relate his own struggle in a positive way to the difficulty of other gay people made miserable by religion. But nooooo......



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    Feb 03, 2009 2:47 AM GMT
    the irony here is beyond human comprehension, seriously. He doesn't need any kind of punishment, his misery will consume him for living such a worthless life



    I think I know what you did last night
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    Feb 03, 2009 5:31 AM GMT
    I hope those posting 'false belief system' are not bashing Christians. Seems to be the most popular game in the gay culture. I assume new age religions (which are popular in the gay culture) and other belief systems are not 'false belief systems', just Christianity, because it does require a little self control. I have come to the realization Christians can come to terms with their homosexaulity, just need to exercise some self control. The Bible does not condemn being gay, just the irresponsible behavior. This does not mean no sex, maybe just trying to be monogamous, actually love your partner, avoiding all night barebacking parties and other dangerous, self serving behavior.

    Even though I can be considered conservative (I consider myself more centralist), I can and will get along with others who do not have the same 'belief system'. All you have to do is bond on the traits that you have in common, avoid the disagreements, and do not be a hypocrite. I find many, if not most, liberals can not do this. Nobody is exactly like anyone else.

    I do agree Haggard is a hypocrite. He needs to come to terms with his homosexuality. The phrase "I am an heterosexual man with issues" just does not cut it.

    Little John
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    Feb 03, 2009 5:57 AM GMT
    I haven't seen the HBO documentary, but I did see the Larry King and Oprah interviews, and the feature stories on AC360. I think the man is genuinely warm and repentant, but more than a little bit naive. I don't see anything diabolical in his nature, but also keep in mind that the latent are usually the most outspoken opponents of homosexuality (a real catch-22 when you're finally outed, to be sure). I do believe that he's fooling himself believing that reparative therapy will "cure" him, and his claim that he manages his thought life by "dismissing" homo-erotic thoughts is a recipe for future disaster. You can't overcome being gay by sheer willpower. I know from personal experience. I do empathize, though, with the shunning he experienced. Although the circumstances were quite different, I experienced the shame of shunning during my own coming out episode. (I say eff 'em all, now, but back then, it was devastating.)

    I guess the proof's in the pudding. Like latent men from prior generations, he may well be able to live the heterosexual married life for the rest of his days. His orientation, though, is virtually set for life.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Feb 03, 2009 6:08 AM GMT
    I saw it tonight. Yes, I'm empathetic. But he brought it on himself. And it made me all the more mad at the church. He obviously still has an attraction to men. But, he views himself as a straight man who has gone off course because they don't believe homosexuality is real.
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    Feb 03, 2009 6:18 AM GMT
    Well Haggard is another example of a professed Christian that does not follow what he preaches and then when he's caught is in total denial and that allows non-Christians to draw the conclusion (inappropriately) that he represents all Christians in their thinking, acting and belief. That could NOT be further from the truth. This man continues to be in total denial of his sexuality and until he owns up to who he is, he will live a miserable life. A life of frustration sexually, devastating emotionally and spiritually in conflict with his own god. He is to pitied.
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    Feb 03, 2009 6:51 PM GMT
    Just to clear things up: when I reference false belief systems / fable / myth, I make no direct reference to Christians, or the like, as somehow construed by yorkpowerlifter. How he could mistake that, I'm uncertain.

    When I refer to false belief systems, I refer to all of them as a group, whatever their label. That is, belief systems that have no basis in fact. I.e., faith. Faith is not truth. Faith is faith. It's considered false, at least by most clear-thinking folks, until a preponderance of proof holds otherwise.

    Whatever your deity (God, Satan, Einstein, Birds, Nature, Cows, a monk, a dictator, a Mormon prophet, money, canabis, snakes, or whatever the deity) and whatever leap of faith you've taken, unless it can hold up to scientific theory, I consider it a false belief system.

    I can't generally see electricity, but, it's, of course, very real, and through a variety of scientific methods, and critical-thinking, I can prove it. The same can't be said for false belief systems (pick your flavor).

    In general, false belief systems indoctrinate their believers from a very young age. When you ask them to say why their belief system is better than some other belief system they'll almost always contend "because it just is."

    I'm not so sure that much of the perceived "bashing" stated by yorkpowerlifter, isn't so much an expression of "bashing" as it is that more folks are engaged in critical thinking, and logic. As you become more knowledgeable it's harder to buy off on these false belief systems. Clear-thinking / logical thinking leads down a completely different path.

    As we grow more knowledgeable, we know these false belief systems are increasingly hard to defend with any coherence.
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    Feb 03, 2009 7:07 PM GMT
    Like I've said before, Its sad the gay community never reached out to him to help him understand himself. He's never going to get anyone to tell him that gay is OK. All he hears is how evil and disgusting it is to be one.
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    Feb 04, 2009 1:27 AM GMT
    The brainwashing of false belief systems at work.
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Feb 04, 2009 1:42 AM GMT
    chuckystud saidJust to clear things up: when I reference false belief systems / fable / myth, I make no direct reference to Christians, or the like, as somehow construed by yorkpowerlifter. How he could mistake that, I'm uncertain.

    When I refer to false belief systems, I refer to all of them as a group, whatever their label. That is, belief systems that have no basis in fact. I.e., faith. Faith is not truth. Faith is faith. It's considered false, at least by most clear-thinking folks, until a preponderance of proof holds otherwise.

    Whatever your deity (God, Satan, Einstein, Birds, Nature, Cows, a monk, a dictator, a Mormon prophet, money, canabis, snakes, or whatever the deity) and whatever leap of faith you've taken, unless it can hold up to scientific theory, I consider it a false belief system.


    What a limited and narrow view. Before the invention of the microscope, scientific fact was that disease was caused by imbalances inside the human body. Science can only comment on what it is capable of observing.
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    Feb 04, 2009 3:20 AM GMT
    EricLA saidAnd it made me all the more mad at the church. He obviously still has an attraction to men. But, he views himself as a straight man who has gone off course because they don't believe homosexuality is real.


    Very true, and this is why it's almost impossible to imagine gays gaining acceptance from evangelical Christians. They don't even entertain the notion that homosexuality is a natural sexual orientation, same as heterosexuality. In their world, there is heterosexuality on the one hand and there is sinful perversion and a rebellion against God's will on the other.
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    Feb 04, 2009 3:48 AM GMT
    Haggard preached the biblical concept that you reap what you sow. Sorry, Ted, but this is harvest time, and I have no sympathy to waste on you.
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    Feb 04, 2009 3:53 AM GMT
    styrgan saidWhat a limited and narrow view. Before the invention of the microscope, scientific fact was that disease was caused by imbalances inside the human body. Science can only comment on what it is capable of observing.
    Not true. Science relies on preponderance of evidence AND opinion. All opinion must withstand scrupulous review, a burden too great for faith to bear.
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Feb 04, 2009 4:25 AM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    styrgan saidWhat a limited and narrow view. Before the invention of the microscope, scientific fact was that disease was caused by imbalances inside the human body. Science can only comment on what it is capable of observing.
    Not true. Science relies on preponderance of evidence AND opinion. All opinion must withstand scrupulous review, a burden too great for faith to bear.


    Science does not rely on opinion at all. Science relies on quantifiable, observable measurements. Science has in good faith believed many false things over its history, mostly because it lacked the ability to accurately record or measure them. Similarly, there is no way for science to measure things that transcend the known physical universe. That includes concepts such as "God" or "heaven" or "goodness" or "happiness" or "evil" - and so these things are outside the realm of science as we know it today.