Hate Overcomes All?

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    Nov 17, 2015 2:28 PM GMT
    Its really shocking the level of outright hate shown by some people. Its really easy to say "look at us, evolved society and all" but in the same breath we're capable of spewing the most disgusting diatribe against whole swaths of the global population.

    Guess what? We have absolutely zero right to judge anyone, no matter what anyone thinks. Someone commits a crime? There's proof? Fine. One person commits a crime and you take it out on 1,000 others who happen to come from the same place he did? Is there any way to describe that without using the word "immature" and "racist"?

    The wild right like to point at illegal immigrants as the bane of civilization, painting them as leeches and devious pretenders after free handouts. I hope you haven't eaten any produce grown in the USA today. You'd be hard-pressed to find an agricultural industry that doesn't depend heavily on low wages, long hours, and fuzzy background checks. Before you cry foul on the "handouts" these people get, why don't you go bend over in a field in Californa for 8 hours a day.
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    Nov 17, 2015 2:31 PM GMT
    TheStreetcarWhisperer saidIts really shocking the level of outright hate shown by some people. Its really easy to say "look at us, evolved society and all" but in the same breath we're capable of spewing the most disgusting diatribe against whole swaths of the global population.

    Guess what? We have absolutely zero right to judge anyone, no matter what anyone thinks. Someone commits a crime? There's proof? Fine. One person commits a crime and you take it out on 1,000 others who happen to come from the same place he did? Is there any way to describe that without using the word "immature" and "racist"?

    The wild right like to point at illegal immigrants as the bane of civilization, painting them as leeches and devious pretenders after free handouts. I hope you haven't eaten any produce grown in the USA today. You'd be hard-pressed to find an agricultural industry that depends heavily on low wages, long hours, and fuzzy background checks. Before you cry foul on the "handouts" these people get, why don't you go bend over in a field in Californa for 8 hours a day.


    "we're capable of spewing the most disgusting diatribe against whole swaths of the global population."

    Think we have a little competition

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    "why don't you go bend over"

    And take your little

    photo Miata1207283097.jpg

    with you so they'll know for certain that you're a homosexual. And then we'll see how you do.

    "racist"

    And one more thing ... it's a religion not a race, you idiot.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Nov 17, 2015 4:14 PM GMT
    Totally agree. Ignorance and fear, preyed upon by power and money hungry politicians. Travel helps. I guess fear of the unknown is always a primal fear.
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    Nov 17, 2015 4:15 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidTotally agree. Ignorance and fear, preyed upon by power and money hungry politicians. Travel helps. I guess fear of the unknown is always a primal fear.


    Point is .... this is far from 'unknown'.
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    Nov 17, 2015 5:08 PM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    Sharia will not be undoing the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights any time soon.
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    Nov 17, 2015 6:01 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said

    "racist"

    And one more thing ... it's a religion not a race, you idiot.


    I never referred to any specific group, as it was meant as broad social commentary.

    *mic drop*
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    Nov 17, 2015 6:09 PM GMT
    you notice typically governors of states that did not support marriage equality are up front with the refugee issue.

    some of Colorado history:
    conservative Republican Governer Ralph Carr 1942 decision to accept Japanese; following roosevelt's Japanese war relocation authority decision to resettle / intern evicted Japanese Americans from the west coast went against popular anti-Japanese sentiment. He stubbornly proclaimed Coloradans are to welcome the evacuees:

    "They are not going to take over the vegetable business of this state, and they are not going to take over the Arkansas Valley. But the Japanese are protected by the same Constitution that protects us. An American citizen of Japanese descent has the same rights as any other citizen... If you harm them; YOU MUST FIRST HARM ME"

    For his legacy of racial tolerance and that he stood up to what was obviously correct. We have Sakura Square downtown, also named the State Law Offices building after him.

    There is optimism for the future you just got to look for it.
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    Nov 17, 2015 6:16 PM GMT
    you are an idiot, liberal dummies like you is what is wrong with this world, it does not matter if all of them are extremest terrorists ready to blow up themselves any time or beahead someone, stone a woman to death ( normal every day thing in some more extreme islamic countries ), marry a child like prophat mohammad did, cut an arm, give 100 lashes or etc, it only takes one out of all of those potential terrorists to kill hundreads of innocent lives, and what matters that islam make people more prone to it than buddhism, hindiusm and christianity, atheism any other way of life which controlls masses if you want to move to one of those islamic shitholes and experience all the joys of islam go ahead, don't forget to tell you are gay or you can just move to paris or any otehr place with large muslim populations, thanks to retards like yourself, europe is already becoming an islamic shithole


    islam is the worst of the worst, most brutal aggressive force and main thrat to any freedom and democracy and those refugees are no refugees those are illegal immigrants ready to parasite on welfare if they would be refugees they would stay in the first safe country, yet they are all moving to Europe, because they know, Europe is weak, we have democracy and it works in their favor, and terrorism in Europe will only progress, more of those degenerates will come to Europe, worse it will get, because they are part of the problem, part of the reason why west fights middle east, they are warriors of the holy war and terrorists, they don't care about their own country, they have no will to make progress there, and peoplelike you will be the reason europe will stop ecisting, it will be just another islamic shithole, muslims detest democracy, Europeans need to fight for their rights and their lives. and some of those ''poor''refugess have the newest iphones and best of the best and they complain that the internet conection is slow and ther eis no palystation''

    Now shut up, you are stupid

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    Nov 17, 2015 6:22 PM GMT
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    Nov 17, 2015 6:30 PM GMT
    theantijock saidtheantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    Sharia will not be undoing the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights any time soon.



    there are districts in Europe already with high muslim population, they love to live together and get benefits, handouts from government, no integration ( called no go zones ) where sharia s forced to people and others do not go there, not even police go there often, that is what is becoming of Europe

    Ban Islam in USA or one day it will be too late
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    Nov 17, 2015 6:39 PM GMT
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    Nov 17, 2015 7:56 PM GMT
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    Nov 17, 2015 9:33 PM GMT
    TheStreetcarWhisperer said
    freedomisntfree said

    "racist"

    And one more thing ... it's a religion not a race, you idiot.


    I never referred to any specific group, as it was meant as broad social commentary.

    *mic drop*


    And the rest of it:

    "One person commits a crime and you take it out on 1,000 others who happen to come from the same place he did?"

    Who the fuck else did you mean?

    " *mic drop* "

    That's not all you drop. (cheap meninlove imitator )
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    Nov 17, 2015 9:55 PM GMT
    bonaparts said
    theantijock saidtheantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    Sharia will not be undoing the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights any time soon.


    there are districts in Europe already with high muslim population, they love to live together and get benefits, handouts from government, no integration ( called no go zones ) where sharia s forced to people and others do not go there, not even police go there often, that is what is becoming of Europe

    Ban Islam in USA or one day it will be too late


    Apparently, you haven't met us yet. Muslim Arabs have been immigrating here for 70 years already. So far the big cultural changes are hummus, falafel and women dressed early for Halloween.

    I've not lived in one of the main centers of Arab-American concentration but I have in a minor one where at school in the 70s we protested against the Shah and others of us helped immigrants from Iran.

    The largest community here is in Dearborn, home of Ford Motor Company, somewhat American, 40% Arab American. I've never even looked at this before but lets just random google and see if there are any problems showing...

    [url]http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/sharia.asp
    [/url]
    Claim: Dearborn, Michigan, has become the first U.S. city to implement Sharia law.
    FALSE


    How about if we random news google. Maybe that's where the bad stuff is hiding...

    http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/politics-and-prejudice-the-happiest-gay-buddhist-under-sharia-law/Content?oid=2297123
    Brian Stone is a gay Buddhist college student who has lived almost his whole life in Dearborn, except for four years in the Navy. He's also cheerfully mad as hell over Sharia law.

    Last week, he and his buddy and fellow veteran Adam ran around the city and took pictures of Adam grinning and holding a sign saying "DEARBORN SHARIA LAW!" The pictures show him outside notorious Muslim institutions like a Catholic school, a Honeybaked Ham store, and, ahem, a strip club.

    "We'd have gone to more places," Stone told me, "but we got to Buffalo Wild Wings, and Adam had to have beer. He'd be up for invading the moon if it involved beer."


    Yeah, like I said, you haven't met us yet. Sharia? Our big concern is wings and beer.

    Here's another...

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/neal-rubin/2015/02/04/ham-liquor-dearborn-sharia-law/22907225/
    You'll find ham and liquor in Dearborn — but no Shariah

    Our mosques are all on heavily traveled roads," O'Reilly points out. "They're commercial streets. How are you going to have a no-go zone?"

    The mayor since 2007, he was the city council president for 17 years before that. One of his yes-go zones is Lile's, where his standard order is corned beef.

    Along with ham, that makes up two-thirds of the entire sandwich menu. Lile says his Muslim customers, including his barber and his car repair guy, typically order turkey. They're all $6.50, tax included.


    So, you're absolutely right: this is outrageous. Where our USA population is 40% Muslim, still, $6.50 for ham sammich? Outrageous!
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    Nov 17, 2015 10:00 PM GMT
    Thank you for your post. Until now I've seen on this website only angry people using what happened in my city to spit their venom on Muslim and French people.
    Their answer to terrorism is even more hatred, even more bombings, even more killing. The terrorists in the Bataclan were yelling "we do it to revenge Syria".

    Until Jacques Chirac, all the muslim countries were allies of France. We were respecting them and defending peace. That's why we refused to go to Iraq war in 2003.
    But since Sarkozy, we became America's little dog. Now we try to force to those countries a "democracy" and a "civilization" they don't even want, using bombs... Well, at least, that's how we put it, but in reality we do it for petrol and for being able to sell weapons, just like the USA. Now we harvest the results of our seeds, with thousands and thousands of people who want to kill our innocent people, just like we did to them.

    We need to leave the Middle East alone. Stop going there to knock down a government and then put even more chaos. It has NEVER worked since 1990. Not in a SINGLE place. We need to stop thinking we are civilized and they are barbaric. A war against terrorism is lost in advance.

    When I read here comments made by (mostly) American people, I remember that cartoon in Bowling for Columbine.



    People are scared, ignorant, and they answer with more violence. They've never seen or even talked to a Muslim and yet, they have their little opinion about it...
    I'm happy here in France most of the people are more pacifist.

    You can call us stupid for fighting guns with flowers and peace, but that's what makes me love my country right now.
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    Nov 18, 2015 12:21 AM GMT
    Keep in mind that most of these guys are the same angry people who bitch and moan about everything from circumcision to someone dating adults 20 years their junior. Pick a topic. They're so fucking predictable.

    They complain about fearing Sharia law but mostly I think they're just worried that there'll be less uncut dick for them. Of course they'll blame that on the world's 14 million Jews. The 0.2% vs the 22%, the 1.6 billion Muslims.

    This is why you'll see morons post crap about worrying how Muslims might treat gay men in the Western world where we have protections of law and of culture, instead of being happy for gay people born into Muslim families who would now be raising their kids in the West, under the protection of our laws, where maybe they've a chance to live as their true selves without being so-called honor killed.

    Not that immigration might benefit Muslim gay children and Muslim gay men & Muslim lesbians & Muslim bisexuals and Muslim transgendered. Not one mention of that, is there?

    Just some stupid as fuck commentary that they might throw us off the roof of Macy's Department Store.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 18, 2015 12:24 AM GMT
    (I should make consciencious, well-reasoned statements more often! What perfect bait to lure out the assholes so I can block them!)
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    Nov 18, 2015 12:43 AM GMT
    Isugemi saidThank you for your post. Until now I've seen on this website only angry people using what happened in my city to spit their venom on Muslim and French people.
    Their answer to terrorism is even more hatred, even more bombings, even more killing. The terrorists in the Bataclan were yelling "we do it to revenge Syria".

    Until Jacques Chirac, all the muslim countries were allies of France. We were respecting them and defending peace. That's why we refused to go to Iraq war in 2003.
    But since Sarkozy, we became America's little dog. Now we try to force to those countries a "democracy" and a "civilization" they don't even want, using bombs... Well, at least, that's how we put it, but in reality we do it for petrol and for being able to sell weapons, just like the USA. Now we harvest the results of our seeds, with thousands and thousands of people who want to kill our innocent people, just like we did to them.

    We need to leave the Middle East alone. Stop going there to knock down a government and then put even more chaos. It has NEVER worked since 1990. Not in a SINGLE place. We need to stop thinking we are civilized and they are barbaric. A war against terrorism is lost in advance.

    When I read here comments made by (mostly) American people, I remember that cartoon in Bowling for Columbine.



    People are scared, ignorant, and they answer with more violence. They've never seen or even talked to a Muslim and yet, they have their little opinion about it...
    I'm happy here in France most of the people are more pacifist.

    You can call us stupid for fighting guns with flowers and peace, but that's what makes me love my country right now.


    "We need to leave the Middle East alone."

    The first WTC bombing and 911 prove that works great.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 18, 2015 12:46 AM GMT
    TheStreetcarWhisperer said(I should make consciencious, well-reasoned statements more often! What perfect bait to lure out the assholes so I can block them!)


    Good, then stay the fuck out of my profile.

    ButT you'll still be you

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    Nov 18, 2015 2:37 AM GMT
    Isugemi saidThank you for your post. Until now I've seen on this website only angry people using what happened in my city to spit their venom on Muslim and French people.
    Their answer to terrorism is even more hatred, even more bombings, even more killing. The terrorists in the Bataclan were yelling "we do it to revenge Syria".

    Until Jacques Chirac, all the muslim countries were allies of France. We were respecting them and defending peace. That's why we refused to go to Iraq war in 2003.
    But since Sarkozy, we became America's little dog. Now we try to force to those countries a "democracy" and a "civilization" they don't even want, using bombs... Well, at least, that's how we put it, but in reality we do it for petrol and for being able to sell weapons, just like the USA. Now we harvest the results of our seeds, with thousands and thousands of people who want to kill our innocent people, just like we did to them.

    We need to leave the Middle East alone. Stop going there to knock down a government and then put even more chaos. It has NEVER worked since 1990. Not in a SINGLE place. We need to stop thinking we are civilized and they are barbaric. A war against terrorism is lost in advance.

    When I read here comments made by (mostly) American people, I remember that cartoon in Bowling for Columbine.



    People are scared, ignorant, and they answer with more violence. They've never seen or even talked to a Muslim and yet, they have their little opinion about it...
    I'm happy here in France most of the people are more pacifist.

    You can call us stupid for fighting guns with flowers and peace, but that's what makes me love my country right now.


    Yes, you should have loved the Nazis with flowers into surrendering. It sure would have saved A LOT of British and American lives in the liberation of France. Thankfully your president isn't a pacifist.

    Imagine what Europe and the rest of the world would look like today if the Nazis and Japan faced a world full of pacifist pussies. Sane people do not like killing but realize it is sometimes a terrible necessity for their very survival.
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    Nov 18, 2015 5:41 AM GMT
    UndercoverMan said
    Isugemi saidThank you for your post. Until now I've seen on this website only angry people using what happened in my city to spit their venom on Muslim and French people.
    Their answer to terrorism is even more hatred, even more bombings, even more killing. The terrorists in the Bataclan were yelling "we do it to revenge Syria".

    Until Jacques Chirac, all the muslim countries were allies of France. We were respecting them and defending peace. That's why we refused to go to Iraq war in 2003.
    But since Sarkozy, we became America's little dog. Now we try to force to those countries a "democracy" and a "civilization" they don't even want, using bombs... Well, at least, that's how we put it, but in reality we do it for petrol and for being able to sell weapons, just like the USA. Now we harvest the results of our seeds, with thousands and thousands of people who want to kill our innocent people, just like we did to them.

    We need to leave the Middle East alone. Stop going there to knock down a government and then put even more chaos. It has NEVER worked since 1990. Not in a SINGLE place. We need to stop thinking we are civilized and they are barbaric. A war against terrorism is lost in advance.

    When I read here comments made by (mostly) American people, I remember that cartoon in Bowling for Columbine.



    People are scared, ignorant, and they answer with more violence. They've never seen or even talked to a Muslim and yet, they have their little opinion about it...
    I'm happy here in France most of the people are more pacifist.

    You can call us stupid for fighting guns with flowers and peace, but that's what makes me love my country right now.


    Yes, you should have loved the Nazis with flowers into surrendering. It sure would have saved A LOT of British and American lives in the liberation of France. Thankfully your president isn't a pacifist.

    Imagine what Europe and the rest of the world would look like today if the Nazis and Japan faced a world full of pacifist pussies. Sane people do not like killing but realize it is sometimes a terrible necessity for their very survival.


    Thank you for making the worst comparison possible. Nazi Germany was a murderous, seething blast across Western Europe. It was not "terrorism" as we know it today. Germany formally marched across an entire continent pursuing conquest of other peoples (France included). If you took a jaunt down through Churchill's bunker during the Blitz and asked "Dear fellow, where ought we strike so as to end this nightmare?" he'd probably turn to you and, through a puff of acrid cigar smoke, chastise you for asking such an idiotic question. "Why you miserable little fellow...where else? Berlin! Berlin is where this war will find its end with Her Hitler hanging from a rope!"

    Its whatever the term for "Tactics 101" that a nation is much easier to wage war against than a movement. Terrorism is organized around an idea, not an empire. You can demolish an empire, burn its buildings, execute its leaders, demoralize its people and yet none of these have any practical effect on an idea. The very attempt to destroy an idea with force merely furthers it. By attempting to persecute based on ideas or irrelevant identity, we alienate those who we wish to liberate and drive them further towards those who would do them and ourselves harm.

    I put this much more elegantly in another post in here (I think the one about Saddam and his sons) but in order to defeat a terrorist movement you not only have to defeat (yes, with force) the current threat but also work to prevent the idea from perpetuating itself. No one would ever suggest something as idiotic as absolute pacifism in this day and age, however it stands to reason (though nobody knows who the hell actually said this) that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

    We have tried coming at this problem with brute force for nearly fifteen years now. Every time we go in and fuck with the government of another country it ends in disaster. We went into Korea...didn't work out the way we'd hoped. We went into Vietnam...didn't work at all (got our asses kicked). We went into the Gulf...gas prices stabilized but look where it got us. We went BACK to the middle-east...HASN'T FUCKING WORKED.

    No one is suggesting we sit on our hands and wish on the North Star that everyone suddenly decides to love and accept one another. Humans are fickle, devious things whose ability to suppress their base desires and drives is directly proportional to their educations, both formal and social. Ever wonder why big cities are perceived as being more friendly to minorities than small towns? Its because just by the act of LIVING in a big city, you are unable to escape exposure to a variety of cultures, beliefs, backgrounds, and ethnicities. A heterogeneous society is healthier in the long run than a homogeneous one.

    Last but not least, on the subject of immigrants. Unless you can trace your bloodline, uninterrupted, to Native American lineage before the arrival of the Europeans and can show that no member of your ancestry ever intermarried with said Europeans...you have no right to deny immigrants. My family arrived in this country in the 1830s and made lives and names for themselves by working hard and doing well by each other (in spite of part of it being kicked out of Canada by the English). Every generation or so there is a large wave of immigration for one reason or another: famine, war, strife, the hope for a better future and life for their children. Every generation finds a way to demonize them. Every generation looks back in shame on these acts of small-minded men and says to itself "How could they do that?".

    And then they do it all over again.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 18, 2015 9:05 AM GMT
    Will Americans never get tired of the "we saved your ass during ww2" card each time their government is criticized? It gets a bit boring.

    Your government always passes its belligerant actions as freedom protection but it's always politically strategic.
    I like how you like to picture France as a country of people who surrender and lose war but look at American wars since WW2 : Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1 and 2, Afghanistan. Only real successes right?
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    Nov 18, 2015 1:12 PM GMT
    It might get a little boring but it's true nevertheless.

    So while I won't call you stupid for fighting guns with flowers, I will call you naive.

    And no, I don't support every armed conflict and war my government involves itself in.
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    Nov 18, 2015 2:20 PM GMT
    TheStreetcarWhisperer said
    UndercoverMan said
    Isugemi said
    .



    ... Terrorism is organized around an idea, not an empire. You can demolish an empire, burn its buildings, execute its leaders, demoralize its people and yet none of these have any practical effect on an idea. The very attempt to destroy an idea with force merely furthers it. By attempting to persecute based on ideas or irrelevant identity, we alienate those who we wish to liberate and drive them further towards those who would do them and ourselves harm.


    We have tried coming at this problem with brute force for nearly fifteen years now. Every time we go in and fuck with the government of another country it ends in disaster. We went into Korea...didn't work out the way we'd hoped. We went into Vietnam...didn't work at all (got our asses kicked). We went into the Gulf...gas prices stabilized but look where it got us. We went BACK to the middle-east...HASN'T FUCKING WORKED.

    ...


    Nazism and fascism were only ideologies at one time also and given the opportunity became empires that had to be defeated militarily. And quite successfully I might add. Yes, there are pockets of society where nazism and fascism hold sway today but they're ineffective fringe wackos who hold no clout. However, governments monitor their activities nevertheless. The civilized world needs to ensure ISIL becomes ineffective, fringe wackos.

    Knowing the past, are we to wait until ISIL creates an empire before the civilized world does anything? I don't think so.

    Your immigrant/Native American argument is so silly it isn't worth responding to.