How Is It Possible To Be HIV Positive and "Absolutely Healthy"?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 21, 2015 6:47 PM GMT
    It's been an amazing 2 years for HIV news. Two years ago I was castigated for even mentioning that an HIV undetectable person was 'safest."

    Art Deco wanted to railroad me out of RJ for expressing what has been coming out of EVERY HIV study since 2008. I was "evil" I "must be stopped", I should be banned from RJ.

    Charlie Sheen (although NOT the best role model) has turned a lot of attention to ART Therapy, and UVL status.
    Nothing new as far a I am concerned, but here is another item to consider.

    http://gawker.com/how-is-it-possible-to-be-hiv-positive-and-absolutely-h-1743356926

    The last time I checked Art Deco, and the naysayers like him revert to "how do you know they have a UVL?" Which isn't a scientific question, it's a social question. It doesn't refute medical science.

    People do learn. The above author previously wrote "Please Don't Infect Me, I'm Sorry".
    http://gawker.com/5935651/please-dont-infect-me-im-sorry
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Nov 22, 2015 5:49 AM GMT
    I appreciate every good news about HIV, having lived through it as a young man in SF in San Francisco when I was a young man. New drugs, new protocals, be that as it may. I went through it. I don't sleep with guys that are HIV positive. I went through it. I was hyper careful then, in 1983. I am careful now.
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    Nov 22, 2015 3:59 PM GMT
    It's encouraging that many more HIV-positive men and women are becoming "undetectable" due to major advances in antiretroviral drugs (ARV). It is true that HIV-positive people whose viral load is undetectable because of HIV-suppressing meds have a very low risk of infecting their partners. I believe recent studies show that the rate of HIV infection for HIV negative partners was 96% lower if the positive partner was on ARVs. Nevertheless, it is also true that viral load tests measure the amount of HIV virus in one's blood, while one can also get HIV infection from sexual fluids, such as semen or vaginal or anal secretions. Unfortunately, the viral load in these sexual fluids can be high even when the viral load in one's blood is low. I still believe that sex with HIV-positive people (undetectable or not) is eminently safe if necessary precautions are undertaken--and these include using condoms, vaginal/anal dams, etc.
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    Nov 22, 2015 6:41 PM GMT
    bradsmith saidJust another note: after 35 years since testing positive, never being on meds and being undetectable still...yes, it is possible to be HIV+ and healthy! ;)

    And most praise to all my partners who haven't been afraid to consort with us diseased pariahs... icon_smile.gif


    Good for you. You are one of the 2% who don't progress at all. I was a slow progressor. More common but relatively rare. It was slow ailenough that I was still around for the new "cocktail" or ART in 1999.

    DOMINUS is confusing 96% with 4% chance of infection. 96% is the confidence rate. There have been ZERO infections with a fully suppressed viral load.

    A confidence rate of an operation, say bi-pass surgery, of 90% means it is very safe.

    http://hivforum.tumblr.com/page/2


    Anonymous Asked
    Question:
    One qualifier I hear about transmission w/undetectable viral load is that "just because it's not at detectable levels in blood does not mean it is not present in [semen, other tissues, etc.]." The implication is that someone who is undetectable could still have transmissible levels in semen. Is this pure speculation? Or are there actually studies with data that support statements like this?

    Answer:

    The statement is true, but since there has never been a reported case of transmission from someone with an undetectable viral load in the blood, the discrepancy doesn’t seem to matter. While the viral load in semen might sometimes be detectable in someone with an undetectable plasma viral load, it’s would still (be) very low. People don’t talk about this as much as they used to now that we have so much data on the preventive benefit of an undetectable plasma viral load.

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    Nov 22, 2015 7:00 PM GMT
    The whole conversation about 'blips' and the qualifiers about levels in semen and other areas are moot when the person is fully suppressed, after six months or more.

    These occurrences are from either not being suppressed (just starting medications) or going off medications.

    Nor does having an STD make HIV infection more likely, as has been warned. The occurrence of HIV and STD co-infection has been common, but is not a cause and affect. In PrEP users (Kaiser Permanente) the HIV incidence rate was zero, yet there were STD infections.

    It does highlight the need to still use condoms for STDs.
  • Joeyphx444

    Posts: 2382

    Nov 22, 2015 9:58 PM GMT
    HIV is so 80s

    It's about cancer and muscle/nerve diseases now
  • Sincityfan

    Posts: 409

    Nov 22, 2015 11:21 PM GMT
    lol.
    When I saw the post I knew it was going to be a "timmmmmmmmmm" post.
    So predictable.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 22, 2015 11:55 PM GMT
    timmm55 saidIt's been an amazing 2 years for HIV news. Two years ago I was castigated for even mentioning that an HIV undetectable person was 'safest."

    Art Deco wanted to railroad me out of RJ for expressing what has been coming out of EVERY HIV study since 2008. I was "evil" I "must be stopped", I should be banned from RJ.

    Charlie Sheen (although NOT the best role model) has turned a lot of attention to ART Therapy, and UVL status.
    Nothing new as far a I am concerned, but here is another item to consider.

    http://gawker.com/how-is-it-possible-to-be-hiv-positive-and-absolutely-h-1743356926

    The last time I checked Art Deco, and the naysayers like him revert to "how do you know they have a UVL?" Which isn't a scientific question, it's a social question. It doesn't refute medical science.

    People do learn. The above author previously wrote "Please Don't Infect Me, I'm Sorry".
    http://gawker.com/5935651/please-dont-infect-me-im-sorry

    I've always agreed that an HIV+ guy could be healthy in all other regards. I know lots.

    The question is whether they are infectious. And how to have safe sex with them. timmm55 is trying to tell us that they aren't infectious, and you can bareback. If you wanna take that risk, go right ahead

    I lived with a poz guy for years, where he was the top, and I blew him. I remain negative to this day. Safe sex works.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 23, 2015 12:15 AM GMT
    Even though someone who is undetectable and medicated is the safest person to have unprotected sex with regarding transmission of HIV, it isn't completely safe still, and I would rather have unprotected sex with someone who has been tested negative and answers confidently about his level of safety since testing, though not having unprotected sex is the best option all around. If people with HIV go off of the medication they still have a virus in them that will kill them and can kill other people, so they are not naturally healthy, and most medications always induce some side effects that can cause ailments in other aspects of health, so I am always skeptic.

    Also studies are good references, but many studies are bias and people don't think critically enough to even realize it.
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    Nov 23, 2015 2:53 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    timmm55 saidIt's been an amazing 2 years for HIV news. Two years ago I was castigated for even mentioning that an HIV undetectable person was 'safest."

    Art Deco wanted to railroad me out of RJ for expressing what has been coming out of EVERY HIV study since 2008. I was "evil" I "must be stopped", I should be banned from RJ.

    Charlie Sheen (although NOT the best role model) has turned a lot of attention to ART Therapy, and UVL status.
    Nothing new as far a I am concerned, but here is another item to consider.

    http://gawker.com/how-is-it-possible-to-be-hiv-positive-and-absolutely-h-1743356926

    The last time I checked Art Deco, and the naysayers like him revert to "how do you know they have a UVL?" Which isn't a scientific question, it's a social question. It doesn't refute medical science.

    People do learn. The above author previously wrote "Please Don't Infect Me, I'm Sorry".
    http://gawker.com/5935651/please-dont-infect-me-im-sorry

    I've always agreed that an HIV+ guy could be healthy in all other regards. I know lots.

    The question is whether they are infectious. And how to have safe sex with them. timmm55 is trying to tell us that they aren't infectious, and you can bareback. If you wanna take that risk, go right ahead

    I lived with a poz guy for years, where he was the top, and I blew him. I remain negative to this day. Safe sex works.



    I am as infectious as you are. Perhaps less so.

    Read ACON. Safe sex IS having a UVL.

    http://www.acon.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/What-is-Safe-Sex-Position-2014.pdf

    [b]Experts Say Positive People on Effective HIV Meds Are Not Sexually Infectious

    That was said in 2008, and is just as true today. With MORE evidence to confirm it.


    http://www.poz.com/articles/hiv_meds_not_sexually_infectious_1_13922.shtml

    You continue to use bareback as some sort of a negative meaning. It is a sexual activity that predates AIDS, was still happening during the AIDS crisis and continues still.

    You fail to grasp "Treatment as Prevention"

    You called Dr. Fauci a fraud. Do you remember that?

    The model, says Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, is based on the observation that, "When you follow couples—one who's infected, the other who's not—the probability of infection diminishes when the viral load is very low," as when drugs have been administered. So, the study intends to get infected individuals' viral loads down to levels where they cannot infect their sexual partners#8212;even in the absence of a condom. "The philosophy," Fauci says, "is if you test everybody, and treat everybody who has HIV, you could use treatment as prevention."

    I kept one of your more ludicrous comments on my profile for reference sake.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 23, 2015 3:18 AM GMT
    BTW anyone who says "I know lots" can't be taken seriously.
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    Nov 24, 2015 1:14 AM GMT
    "Absolutely healthy" and healthy for someone living with HIV are two different things!

    I first read that passive-aggressive Gawker article a few years ago. This guy I was casually dating sent it to me after telling me he was poz. It helped me realize I was dealing with an extremely manipulative individual. Since then, I've seen many other poz guys online use that same article to kind of guilt people into dating them.
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    Nov 24, 2015 1:40 AM GMT
    CODY4U said"Absolutely healthy" and healthy for someone living with HIV are two different things!

    I first read that passive-aggressive Gawker article a few years ago. This guy I was casually dating sent it to me after telling me he was poz. It helped me realize I was dealing with an extremely manipulative individual. Since then, I've seen many other poz guys online use that same article to kind of guilt people into dating them.


    Nice try (not). The article was written 11/15 not a few years ago
    Education is not passive/aggressive. He was doing it as a test. Your knowledge is lacking, worse you see it as something negative. I'm glad he passed on you. Trust me it was mutual.

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    Nov 24, 2015 1:41 AM GMT
    Sincityfan saidlol.
    When I saw the post I knew it was going to be a "timmmmmmmmmm" post.
    So predictable.


    Good, at lest you get the gist then.
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    Nov 24, 2015 1:45 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    CODY4U said"Absolutely healthy" and healthy for someone living with HIV are two different things!

    I first read that passive-aggressive Gawker article a few years ago. This guy I was casually dating sent it to me after telling me he was poz. It helped me realize I was dealing with an extremely manipulative individual. Since then, I've seen many other poz guys online use that same article to kind of guilt people into dating them.


    So, are you still single?

    How is it that you've seen "many" other poz guys use that article for guilting others? Is there some source where HIV negative men are sharing this very experience with you in order for you to reach that conclusion?


    Apparently Cody thinks he is a prized possession that POZ guys want to acquire him for their nefarious needs.

    They will guilt HIM, and be deviousness (passive/aggressive) in doing so.

    What an EGO!
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    Nov 24, 2015 2:02 AM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Sincityfan saidlol.
    When I saw the post I knew it was going to be a "timmmmmmmmmm" post.
    So predictable.

    Good, at lest you get the gist then.

    Yep, the gist of committing suicide.

    Sorry, but the idea of a guy who got himself infected with HIV, as you tell us in your RJ profile, is not someone I would rely upon on as a credible source of information for avoiding HIV infection. Especially since you are advising guys to undertake the same risky behavior that made you poz in the first place.

    We've been around and around with this before, but it bears repeating, since you keep putting out the same dangerous misinformation. That may especially mislead newer RJ members who haven't seen these discussions before and may be under-informed.

    Newer medical approaches do indeed lower the risk of HIV transmission. But they do not ELIMINATE the risk. The US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) continue to state this fact, and recommend utilizing safe sex practices that includes condom use for anal sex (which also reduces transmission of other STDs besides HIV).

    The CDC do NOT approve barebacking under ANY circumstances. Please show me where they do.

    Are you smarter and more informed than the US CDC? If so, then I suggest you apply for a position with them, since you apparently have more skilled knowledge than they do, and they could use someone like you. Your medical talents are being wasted online here.
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    Nov 24, 2015 2:31 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    CODY4U said"Absolutely healthy" and healthy for someone living with HIV are two different things!

    I first read that passive-aggressive Gawker article a few years ago. This guy I was casually dating sent it to me after telling me he was poz. It helped me realize I was dealing with an extremely manipulative individual. Since then, I've seen many other poz guys online use that same article to kind of guilt people into dating them.


    So, are you still single?

    How is it that you've seen "many" other poz guys use that article for guilting others? Is there some source where HIV negative men are sharing this very experience with you in order for you to reach that conclusion?


    Online. A lot of you guys seem to have it in your little link arsenals.

    In reference to that particular loser, I was always single. I said "casually dating". We never did anything more than light kissing (thank God). I would never!
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    Nov 24, 2015 2:36 AM GMT
    timmm55 said
    CODY4U said"Absolutely healthy" and healthy for someone living with HIV are two different things!

    I first read that passive-aggressive Gawker article a few years ago. This guy I was casually dating sent it to me after telling me he was poz. It helped me realize I was dealing with an extremely manipulative individual. Since then, I've seen many other poz guys online use that same article to kind of guilt people into dating them.


    Nice try (not). The article was written 11/15 not a few years ago
    Education is not passive/aggressive. He was doing it as a test. Your knowledge is lacking, worse you see it as something negative. I'm glad he passed on you. Trust me it was mutual.



    Nope! I totally dumped him after he told me. That's why he sent the article. And no bitch, that article says it's from 8/22/12. If you can count, that is more than a few years ago.


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    Nov 24, 2015 2:40 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    timmm55 said
    Sincityfan saidlol.
    When I saw the post I knew it was going to be a "timmmmmmmmmm" post.
    So predictable.

    Good, at lest you get the gist then.

    Yep, the gist of committing suicide.

    Sorry, but the idea of a guy who got himself infected with HIV, as you tell us in your RJ profile, is not someone I would rely upon on as a credible source of information for avoiding HIV infection. Especially since you are advising guys to undertake the same risky behavior that made you poz in the first place.

    We've been around and around with this before, but it bears repeating, since you keep putting out the same dangerous misinformation. That may especially mislead newer RJ members who haven't seen these discussions before and may be under-informed.

    Newer medical approaches do indeed lower the risk of HIV transmission. But they do not ELIMINATE the risk. The US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) continue to state this fact, and recommend utilizing safe sex practices that includes condom use for anal sex (which also reduces transmission of other STDs besides HIV).

    The CDC do NOT approve barebacking under ANY circumstances. Please show me where they do.

    Are you smarter and more informed than the US CDC? If so, then I suggest you apply for a position with them, since you apparently have more skilled knowledge than they do, and they could use someone like you. Your medical talents are being wasted online here.


    Do you know Dr. Fauci's relationship to the CDC?

    You're damn right we've been through before, your insulting attitude is deplorable. In all of the studies where couples do not use condoms (bareback as you prefer) and the one partner is undetectable there is ZERO transmission.

    It isn't a question of CDC "approve barebacking" or not, it will happen.

    But yes, ACON #3 does state that sustained undetectable without a condom IS safe sex.

    http://www.acon.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/What-is-Safe-Sex-Position-2014.pdf

    How is an undetectable partner "suicide"? As noted ZERO transmissions. Of the 50,000 new HIV cases they are not from people on sustained ART or PrEP.

    As for how I've got HIV I've never said.
    And you logic that someone who has survived HIV since 1985 and has studies it for 30 years, and isn't fit to comment is beyond insulting. It's like saying someone who has undergone Chemotherapy is no longer knowledgeable about cancer. That's idiotic.
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    Nov 24, 2015 3:23 AM GMT
    CODY4U said
    timmm55 said
    CODY4U said"Absolutely healthy" and healthy for someone living with HIV are two different things!

    I first read that passive-aggressive Gawker article a few years ago. This guy I was casually dating sent it to me after telling me he was poz. It helped me realize I was dealing with an extremely manipulative individual. Since then, I've seen many other poz guys online use that same article to kind of guilt people into dating them.


    Nice try (not). The article was written 11/15 not a few years ago
    Education is not passive/aggressive. He was doing it as a test. Your knowledge is lacking, worse you see it as something negative. I'm glad he passed on you. Trust me it was mutual.



    Nope! I totally dumped him after he told me. That's why he sent the article. And no bitch, that article says it's from 8/22/12. If you can count, that is more than a few years ago.




    Bitch it was the same author, he was updating the old article. He has changed his opinion.

    That's the point!
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    Nov 24, 2015 4:10 AM GMT
    timmm55 said
    CODY4U said
    timmm55 said
    CODY4U said"Absolutely healthy" and healthy for someone living with HIV are two different things!

    I first read that passive-aggressive Gawker article a few years ago. This guy I was casually dating sent it to me after telling me he was poz. It helped me realize I was dealing with an extremely manipulative individual. Since then, I've seen many other poz guys online use that same article to kind of guilt people into dating them.


    Nice try (not). The article was written 11/15 not a few years ago
    Education is not passive/aggressive. He was doing it as a test. Your knowledge is lacking, worse you see it as something negative. I'm glad he passed on you. Trust me it was mutual.



    Nope! I totally dumped him after he told me. That's why he sent the article. And no bitch, that article says it's from 8/22/12. If you can count, that is more than a few years ago.




    Bitch it was the same author, he was updating the old article. He has changed his opinion.

    That's the point!


    No bitch. That wasn't what you were trying to get cute about. You were clearly confused about which link I was referring to in the first place. Scroll up and review.
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    Nov 24, 2015 4:17 AM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Apparently Cody thinks he is a prized possession that POZ guys want to acquire him for their nefarious needs.

    They will guilt HIM, and be deviousness (passive/aggressive) in doing so.

    What an EGO!


    It was certainly the case with this particular individual. He told me he was poz. I told him I wasn't interested. He e-mails me an article titled "Please Don't Infect Me, I'm Sorry". Turned me off even more than his poz status.
  • stratavos

    Posts: 1831

    Nov 24, 2015 6:20 AM GMT
    well... without reading anything that's been posted, I'm assuming that they mean aside from their HIV, they're absolutely healthy.
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    Nov 24, 2015 5:28 PM GMT
    CODY4U said
    timmm55 said
    CODY4U said
    timmm55 said
    CODY4U said"Absolutely healthy" and healthy for someone living with HIV are two different things!

    I first read that passive-aggressive Gawker article a few years ago. This guy I was casually dating sent it to me after telling me he was poz. It helped me realize I was dealing with an extremely manipulative individual. Since then, I've seen many other poz guys online use that same article to kind of guilt people into dating them.


    Nice try (not). The article was written 11/15 not a few years ago
    Education is not passive/aggressive. He was doing it as a test. Your knowledge is lacking, worse you see it as something negative. I'm glad he passed on you. Trust me it was mutual.



    Nope! I totally dumped him after he told me. That's why he sent the article. And no bitch, that article says it's from 8/22/12. If you can count, that is more than a few years ago.




    Bitch it was the same author, he was updating the old article. He has changed his opinion.

    That's the point!


    No bitch. That wasn't what you were trying to get cute about. You were clearly confused about which link I was referring to in the first place. Scroll up and review.


    The older article was linked in the new 11/15 piece....by the author.

    He says "Given the amount of ignorance and stigma with which HIV is regarded in our culture, these are big concepts for people to wrap their heads around. Through the years, I’ve written frequently on this topic (starting in 2012, when my thinking was far more fearful, ignorant, and just plain incorrect)"




    That is where you, Art Deco, Sydney and others are stuck. In ignorance, fear and stupidity.
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    Nov 24, 2015 5:52 PM GMT
    stratavos saidwell... without reading anything that's been posted, I'm assuming that they mean aside from their HIV, they're absolutely healthy.


    So you are assuming someone with HIV can't be absolutely healthy?

    Perhaps you should read it! lol