CDC Says 1 in 4 Gay Men Should Be on PrEP

  • metta

    Posts: 39107

    Nov 25, 2015 6:28 AM GMT
    CDC Says 1 in 4 Gay Men Should Be on PrEP


    http://www.towleroad.com/2015/11/cdc-says-1-in-4-gay-men-should-be-on-prep/
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    Nov 25, 2015 1:14 PM GMT
    metta saidCDC Says 1 in 4 Gay Men Should Be on PrEP


    http://www.towleroad.com/2015/11/cdc-says-1-in-4-gay-men-should-be-on-prep/


    Drug resistant strains of HIV are still evolving, do you think people in the western world can avoid contact with those in the currently poorer countries??? If western countries either deliberately or by lack of attention to what is happening in the community, promotes the use of PREP as the only protection from HIV, the next outbreak will be so much worse.

    The message of PREP as an extra tool is commendable, but (PREP) it's going to become a lost opportunity if the message that it's OK to sleep with as many people as you can become a normalized part of mainstream Gay culture.

    It is one thing to acknowledge the 'high risk' proportion of the community Gay or Straight, but this message that people should not 'slut shame', is not evidence based and furthermore it has the potential of mainstreaming high 'risk behavior' without changing any of the problematic elements which result from communities who's testing rates are inadequate to control the spread of HIV, never mind the already verified explosions of other STI's.

    Nobody should be making judgments of other peoples sexual behaviors who have overactive sex lives, but that doesn't mean they should be condoned as a healthy behavioral trait either.
  • JackNNJ

    Posts: 1051

    Nov 25, 2015 1:58 PM GMT
    The CDC says a lot of things, many of which are ridiculous.
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    Nov 25, 2015 2:24 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    The message of PrEP as an extra tool is commendable, but (PrEP) it's going to become a lost opportunity if the message that it's OK to sleep with as many people as you can become a normalized part of mainstream Gay culture.

    Here's what the US CDC say:

    When taken every day, PrEP is safe and highly effective in preventing HIV infection. PrEP is even more effective if it is combined with other ways to prevent new HIV infections like condom use... [Emphasis mine]

    PrEP works well IF you take it without fail every day. Reminds me of the first generation of the birth control pill in the mid-1960s. Women had to carry a monthly daily pill holder with them as a means of remembering to take their dose, timed to their period. A sudden pregnancy was often accompanied by an exclaimed: "Oppps! I forgot to take my pill!" and "What do you mean, you forgot your pill???" Nor did the pill guarantee 100% absolute prevention even taken properly.

    Except with HIV the condition will never pass, it's for life. Nor are there intervention methods, unless you have access to very expensive morning-after procedures that doctors can be reluctant to begin. And even those are not reliable.

    Guys will forget their daily pill. They'll also forget, in a haze of alcohol & lust, to insist their top use a condom, or simply choose not to. But the more layers of protection you have, the more safety nets you employ, the more you can reduce your HIV risk to virtually zero.

    It also bears repeating that PrEP has not been shown to be effective against all other STDs. For which condom use is still good protection from a number of them. You may have dodged the HIV bullet with PrEP, great, but then you find out you've gotten something else. Not so great. icon_sad.gif
  • FitBlackCuddl...

    Posts: 802

    Nov 25, 2015 4:37 PM GMT
    metta saidCDC Says 1 in 4 Gay Men Should Be on PrEP


    http://www.towleroad.com/2015/11/cdc-says-1-in-4-gay-men-should-be-on-prep/


    I'll be one of the 3 NOT on an unneeded drug.
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    Nov 25, 2015 7:15 PM GMT


    This recommendation will certainly piss off Aids Healthcare Foundation who is feverishly trying to curb PrEP use within the porn industry and or drive the entire business out of the state of California icon_confused.gif

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    Nov 25, 2015 7:57 PM GMT
    Obviously for people who are suffering from the virus, they have no choice. But for healthy people, this really seems like an unnecessary gamble. The manufacturer's literature states condoms should still be used and long-term effects are still unknown. So basically all these folks are kinda guinea pigs if you think about it. Scary!
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1034

    Nov 25, 2015 8:40 PM GMT
    The article also says PrEP decreases HIV transmission by "70 to 90 percent". Taking the lowball figure, 30% chance of contracting HIV doesn't sound too attractive to me - it sure wouldn't make me quit using a condom!

    I was contacted on Grindr the other day by a guy who bragged he's "Vers and on PrEP" - I guess he was saying he takes it raw. I responded that I'm drug free. He seemed confused - told me he doesn't do recreational drugs either (except for the one that lets him bareback worry-free, I guess).
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    Nov 26, 2015 3:44 AM GMT
    bro4bro saidThe article also says PrEP decreases HIV transmission by "70 to 90 percent". Taking the lowball figure, 30% chance of contracting HIV doesn't sound too attractive to me - it sure wouldn't make me quit using a condom!

    I was contacted on Grindr the other day by a guy who bragged he's "Vers and on PrEP" - I guess he was saying he takes it raw. I responded that I'm drug free. He seemed confused - told me he doesn't do recreational drugs either (except for the one that lets him bareback worry-free, I guess).


    They say it reduces it by 92% actually (though I've also read 96% from other sources). The 70% you quoted from the article is regarding needle injections, not sex.

    Condoms reduce it by ~85%. You can still get HIV using a condom.

    "Condoms used 100% of the time, though not necessarily 100% perfectly (i.e. with usual rates of breakage and slippage) provide protection of 80 to 85% against HIV (uncertainty range: 76 to 93%). In other words, for every 100 cases of HIV infection that would happen without condom use, about 15 (range: 7 to 24) would happen when condoms are used consistently."

    http://www.aidsmap.com/Do-condoms-work/page/1746203/

    Your best protection against HIV it to be on Prep and use a condom (outside of abstaining from sex).
  • mar0302

    Posts: 273

    Nov 26, 2015 5:35 AM GMT
    PrEP efficacy is somewhere between 92 and 100% when taken daily.. the challenge has been that people won't take it daily, everyone forgets.. and therein lies the problem.. however, I think it's a good option for people that are already practicing at risk behaviour, as it provides added protection... Condoms are good protection as well, but prep is better.

    Slut shaming is another issue.. if people are doing it already, then I'd recommend they use PrEP.. although it does open them up to other diseases..

    http://www.hivplusmag.com/treatment/prevention/2015/09/02/exactly-zero-men-prep-contract-hiv-25-year-study
  • Antarktis

    Posts: 213

    Nov 26, 2015 6:30 AM GMT
    no shit Sherlock.

    Thank you for stating the obvious.
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    Nov 26, 2015 10:36 AM GMT
    S34n05 said
    bro4bro saidThe article also says PrEP decreases HIV transmission by "70 to 90 percent". Taking the lowball figure, 30% chance of contracting HIV doesn't sound too attractive to me - it sure wouldn't make me quit using a condom!

    I was contacted on Grindr the other day by a guy who bragged he's "Vers and on PrEP" - I guess he was saying he takes it raw. I responded that I'm drug free. He seemed confused - told me he doesn't do recreational drugs either (except for the one that lets him bareback worry-free, I guess).


    They say it reduces it by 92% actually (though I've also read 96% from other sources). The 70% you quoted from the article is regarding needle injections, not sex.

    Condoms reduce it by ~85%. You can still get HIV using a condom.

    "Condoms used 100% of the time, though not necessarily 100% perfectly (i.e. with usual rates of breakage and slippage) provide protection of 80 to 85% against HIV (uncertainty range: 76 to 93%). In other words, for every 100 cases of HIV infection that would happen without condom use, about 15 (range: 7 to 24) would happen when condoms are used consistently."

    http://www.aidsmap.com/Do-condoms-work/page/1746203/

    Your best protection against HIV it to be on Prep and use a condom (outside of abstaining from sex).


    Where is your source of the outright deliberate misinformation about condom use preventing HIV. Please also declare your percentage of stock in the Gillead Company. Condom failure rates you quote would look so much different when you provide the qualifying information like for instance, it's based on self reporting, an inaccurate way of gauging anything at best
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    Nov 27, 2015 12:09 AM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    S34n05 said
    bro4bro saidThe article also says PrEP decreases HIV transmission by "70 to 90 percent". Taking the lowball figure, 30% chance of contracting HIV doesn't sound too attractive to me - it sure wouldn't make me quit using a condom!

    I was contacted on Grindr the other day by a guy who bragged he's "Vers and on PrEP" - I guess he was saying he takes it raw. I responded that I'm drug free. He seemed confused - told me he doesn't do recreational drugs either (except for the one that lets him bareback worry-free, I guess).


    They say it reduces it by 92% actually (though I've also read 96% from other sources). The 70% you quoted from the article is regarding needle injections, not sex.

    Condoms reduce it by ~85%. You can still get HIV using a condom.

    "Condoms used 100% of the time, though not necessarily 100% perfectly (i.e. with usual rates of breakage and slippage) provide protection of 80 to 85% against HIV (uncertainty range: 76 to 93%). In other words, for every 100 cases of HIV infection that would happen without condom use, about 15 (range: 7 to 24) would happen when condoms are used consistently."

    http://www.aidsmap.com/Do-condoms-work/page/1746203/

    Your best protection against HIV it to be on Prep and use a condom (outside of abstaining from sex).


    Where is your source of the outright deliberate misinformation about condom use preventing HIV. Please also declare your percentage of stock in the Gillead Company. Condom failure rates you quote would look so much different when you provide the qualifying information like for instance, it's based on self reporting, an inaccurate way of gauging anything at best


    I linked my source. Where's yours for a rebuttal that I'm stating deliberate misinformation?

    Condoms aren't 100%. If you want the "best" protection, and plan to have sex ... then using both condoms and Prep is ideal.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4864

    Nov 27, 2015 12:20 AM GMT
    From the article:

    "When taken consistently, the one-a-day blue pill — also known as pre-exposure prophylaxis, or PrEP — reduces sexual transmission of HIV by roughly 92%, the agency said."

    There is another blue pill, and it is far more popular. It encourages risky behavior.
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    Nov 27, 2015 6:46 PM GMT
    . Yet the scientific evidence in support of PrEP now appears irrefutable:

    Several independent studies have made it absolutely clear that PrEP works — and not just in clinical trials. In cities like San Francisco, Miami, and Washington D.C., it’s been shown that when given the drug in community healthcare settings, most people will be good about taking it properly, and thus face a near-zero chance of contracting the virus.


    Did anyone READ the article?

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    Nov 27, 2015 7:05 PM GMT
    timmm55 said. Yet the scientific evidence in support of PrEP now appears irrefutable:

    Several independent studies have made it absolutely clear that PrEP works — and not just in clinical trials. In cities like San Francisco, Miami, and Washington D.C., it’s been shown that when given the drug in community healthcare settings, most people will be good about taking it properly, and thus face a near-zero chance of contracting the virus.

    Did anyone READ the article?

    Not only did a number of us read the article, we COMPREHENDED it, objectively. As well as similar linked material posted here. Without applying a personal agenda to distort and misrepresent the findings. You might try doing the same.
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    Nov 27, 2015 7:24 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    timmm55 said. Yet the scientific evidence in support of PrEP now appears irrefutable:

    Several independent studies have made it absolutely clear that PrEP works — and not just in clinical trials. In cities like San Francisco, Miami, and Washington D.C., it’s been shown that when given the drug in community healthcare settings, most people will be good about taking it properly, and thus face a near-zero chance of contracting the virus.

    Did anyone READ the article?

    Not only did a number of us read the article, we COMPREHENDED it, objectively. As well as similar linked material posted here. Without applying a personal agenda to distort and misrepresent the findings. You might try doing the same.


    So what is your agenda? If you COMPREHENDED it you wouldn't have said:

    "PrEP works well IF you take it without fail every day. (WRONG! one day on PrEP led to a 75 to 91 risk reduction, three days meant a 95 to 97 percent risk reduction, and five and seven days translated to a 98 to 99 percent risk reduction. The presumed risk reduction stayed higher than 90 percent for seven days after the last dose.) Reminds me of the first generation of the birth control pill in the mid-1960s. Women had to carry a monthly daily pill holder with them as a means of remembering to take their dose, timed to their period. A sudden pregnancy was often accompanied by an exclaimed: "Oppps! I forgot to take my pill!" and "What do you mean, you forgot your pill???" Nor did the pill guarantee 100% absolute prevention even taken properly."

    You want to compare PrEP to the pill? Great! The Pill was thought to make women promiscuous in the early 60s....like how PrEP users are today. Is stupid slut shaming all over again. PrEP is more effective than the pill. In the Kaiser Permamente study it was 100%.

    You are Gung HO on condoms, I'm not sure why. They are good for preventing STDs, where PrEP isn't, they are not very effective at preventing HIV.

    RESULTS:

    Among MSM reporting any anal sex with an HIV-positive male partner, we found 70% effectiveness with reported consistent condom use (compared with never use) and no significant protection when comparing sometimes use to never use. This point estimate for MSM was less than the 80% effectiveness estimate reported for heterosexuals in HIV-discordant couples reporting consistent condom use. However, the point estimates in the 2 populations are not statistically different. Only 16% of MSM reported consistent condom use during anal sex with male partners of any HIV status over the entire observation period.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25469526
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    Nov 27, 2015 7:34 PM GMT
    Art Deco, how did Thanksgiving go with your "never be healthy HIV friends"? You didn't comment on the last "Healthy HIV" thread.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4141429

    You agenda seems to be nothing more than self-aggrandizement!

    Do they realize what a hypocritical ass you are? You are "friends" for convenience but look down on them. I see rooms and wing of the Desert AIDS Project with plaques of "patrons", some are merely patronizing. They just want adulation from the little people. LOL

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    Nov 29, 2015 2:27 AM GMT
    Studies show people who want to prove their own opinion ... blah blah blah (Kesha). [this is not an academic study so I will not be quoting APA style or Harvard style].

    That approach in an opinion based forums setting smacks of desperation so Timm55 please appreciate that your selective quoting and glaring ommisions of qualifying context which change the complexion of the arguement.

    Truth is Timm55 can say he is for condom and Prep together but he keeps slipping up. That's when the truth comes out that he wants to have an environment with HIV Neg guys willing to engage in BB sex. Despite everything buddy you just cant help yourself. The evidence doesn't need posting because people can look through your forum responses.

    Only just yesterday at my 3 monthly test (rapid test says HIV NEG) and I have been open about being very sexually active and with guys who are openly HIV poz. I take the precautions that certain RJ Members like to pretend don't work or are less effective.

    Let's have a real conversation about condom use/non-use in the community. My guess is Timm55 and others are not going to want the fact based studies being entered into this discussion.

    PS Timm55 is the most vocal not the only one who thinks the same way

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    Nov 29, 2015 10:23 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 saidStudies show people who want to prove their own opinion ... blah blah blah (Kesha). [this is not an academic study so I will not be quoting APA style or Harvard style].

    That approach in an opinion based forums setting smacks of desperation so Timm55 please appreciate that your selective quoting and glaring ommisions of qualifying context which change the complexion of the arguement.

    Truth is Timm55 can say he is for condom and Prep together but he keeps slipping up. That's when the truth comes out that he wants to have an environment with HIV Neg guys willing to engage in BB sex. Despite everything buddy you just cant help yourself. The evidence doesn't need posting because people can look through your forum responses.

    Only just yesterday at my 3 monthly test (rapid test says HIV NEG) and I have been open about being very sexually active and with guys who are openly HIV poz. I take the precautions that certain RJ Members like to pretend don't work or are less effective.

    Let's have a real conversation about condom use/non-use in the community. My guess is Timm55 and others are not going to want the fact based studies being entered into this discussion.

    PS Timm55 is the most vocal not the only one who thinks the same way



    When there are stupid attack dogs like you who denigrate me, personally, and deliberately slander me....you're damn right I'M VOCAL.

    If, as you say " I take the precautions that certain RJ Members like to pretend don't work or are less effective. " you really need to read this:

    51% of New HIV Infections from Condom Failure During Anal Sex, Study Finds

    http://betablog.org/51-new-hiv-infections-condom-failure-anal-sex-study-finds/

    And this http://www.aidsmap.com/Consistent-condom-use-in-anal-sex-stops-70-of-HIV-infections-study-finds-but-intermittent-use-has-no-effect/page/2586976/

    If you are actively having sex with POZ men (not Undetectable) and only using condoms....you are a fool. No wonder there are still 50,000 new cases of HIV in the US every year.

    Australia has stabilized at 1,000 a year, even though condomless anal sex has increased. (So has STDs unfortunately) HIV was increasing yearly. Mostly because of ART Therapy has it stabilized. You do not have PrEP yet. That too will help.

    Your country, in ACON, is leaps and bounds ahead of your 'condoms only' philosophy. Australia ditched their anti-Swiss Statement a few years ago and they are finally making progress.
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    Nov 29, 2015 10:39 PM GMT
    'Truth is Timm55 can say he is for condom and Prep together but he keeps slipping up. That's when the truth comes out that he wants to have an environment with HIV Neg guys willing to engage in BB sex. Despite everything buddy you just cant help yourself. The evidence doesn't need posting because people can look through your forum responses.'

    For YOU or anyone else who is Negative PrEP is the best defense. PERIOD. Condoms are secondary in terms of actually reducing HIV infections.

    For ME, I serosort with other Undetectable men, got it? I am not YOU. And our risk management is very different! And I do use condoms for Undetectable or unknown men I don't know their history....for STDs.

    That's why I stick to my FBs. I know they are Undetectable and get tested 3-4 times a year, including STDs.

    I was talking to a couple from SF yesterday. One is POZ/Undetectable, the other is Negative. They use condoms. The neg guy want to go on PrEP so they can be more intimate.

    That is their business. and it's an effective strategy for THEM. Maybe not for you, and not for me.
  • FitBlackCuddl...

    Posts: 802

    Nov 30, 2015 6:59 PM GMT
    timmm55 said

    If you are actively having sex with POZ men (not Undetectable) and only using condoms....you are a fool.


    I agree...and will take it further: ANY sexual antic with a POZ person involving the ass or the cock where there is fluid exchange, regardless of the circumstances is foolish. Sexual activity based on statistics in a medical journal/treatise isn't enough to risk the dramatic shift in the quality of life that HIV brings.
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    Nov 30, 2015 7:30 PM GMT
    FitBlackCuddler said
    timmm55 said

    If you are actively having sex with POZ men (not Undetectable) and only using condoms....you are a fool.


    I agree...and will take it further: ANY sexual antic with a POZ person involving the ass or the cock where there is fluid exchange, regardless of the circumstances is foolish. Sexual activity based on statistics in a medical journal/treatise isn't enough to risk the dramatic shift in the quality of life that HIV brings.


    We know how well abstinence works.

    The problem is so many don't know they are Positive. It is no longer just hypotheticals. It is testing done with real people in real world situations. Like the Kaiser Permanente study on PrEP. They are Real people who were prescribed PrEP. 650+ people and no HIV transmissions.
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    Dec 01, 2015 11:52 AM GMT
    Since you insist on posting these highly disputable so call 'facts', lets examine them.
    1. MythThere has been infections for people on Prep. Qualify that real life fact how you will but it doesn't change the truth

    2. Myth Undetectable people cannot pass on HIV. I will quote the nurse who carried out my testing at ACON's A-Test on Friday. "There is only 92% protection of persons with an undetectable viral load" she also added "there are also blips in between testing which make that person able to transmit the virus during that blip period". That is a direct quote in response to me fact checking of your assertions and two other men I no longer have any sexual relations with due to their lack of care for the health of others while hiding behind a false claim of being undetectable

    3. Myth condoms fail 51% of the Time. Self reporting is highly inaccurate and subject to cultural expectations. Some self reporting based studies are less unreliable than others but still unreliable

    4. Truth Condoms use and effectiveness during anal sex is not based on verified data and you are very very disingenuous not to mention dangerous to imply other wise

    5 Truth manipulating data and study findings to suit a point of view is a skill and one you possess in abundance

    6. Reducing Slut shaming if that can even be done has not been proven to have even causal link to reducing HIV infections

    7. The Swis statement provided an impetus for relaxed attitudes to HIV infections and the rise in HIV transmissions coincided with it

    8. Prep has caused a large increase in STI infections (no brainer that 1)

    9. The only way to defeat HIV is through education and for POZ guys to take responsibility for theirs and the sexual health of others.

    10. The most important reason any region has made a dent in HIV transmission is free testing and for the results to remain confidential to the person

    Now over to you for a Blah blah blah response
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 01, 2015 11:52 AM GMT
    Since you insist on posting these highly disputable so call 'facts', lets examine them.
    1. MythThere has been infections for people on Prep. Qualify that real life fact how you will but it doesn't change the truth

    2. Myth Undetectable people cannot pass on HIV. I will quote the nurse who carried out my testing at ACON's A-Test on Friday. "There is only 92% protection of persons with an undetectable viral load" she also added "there are also blips in between testing which make that person able to transmit the virus during that blip period". That is a direct quote in response to me fact checking of your assertions and two other men I no longer have any sexual relations with due to their lack of care for the health of others while hiding behind a false claim of being undetectable

    3. Myth condoms fail 51% of the Time. Self reporting is highly inaccurate and subject to cultural expectations. Some self reporting based studies are less unreliable than others but still unreliable

    4. Truth Condoms use and effectiveness during anal sex is not based on verified data and you are very very disingenuous not to mention dangerous to imply other wise

    5 Truth manipulating data and study findings to suit a point of view is a skill and one you possess in abundance

    6. Reducing Slut shaming if that can even be done has not been proven to have even causal link to reducing HIV infections

    7. The Swis statement provided an impetus for relaxed attitudes to HIV infections and the rise in HIV transmissions coincided with it

    8. Prep has caused a large increase in STI infections (no brainer that 1)

    9. The only way to defeat HIV is through education and for POZ guys to take responsibility for theirs and the sexual health of others.

    10. The most important reason any region has made a dent in HIV transmission is free testing and for the results to remain confidential to the person

    Now over to you for a Blah blah blah response