Does anyone deserve happiness

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    Nov 26, 2015 9:15 PM GMT
    I'm listening to a group of lectures on world mythology and the book of Job came up. I really love the message Job sends which is that as humans we don't simply deserve happiness and prosperity simply by being or even by being goood. Its not that I want to suffer but its a very humbling and provocative question to ask. Do I deserve happiness. Do I deserve a boyfriend, a hot boyfriend, a fulfilling career, wealth, good looks or even a support network. As an American I grew up indoctrinated with the idea that hard work is rewarded. While this can be comforting and motivating it can also lead to frustration, misunderstanding and anger. I think this is particularly important in the dating world when so many of us approach dating from a sense of entitlement.
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    Nov 26, 2015 9:27 PM GMT
    The term "deserve" reeks of entitlement. Very millennial angst.
    You have the choice everyday you wake up. You can make it Heaven or Hell. It's your choice...

    I try and make the most of everyday, knowing that there are stumbling blocks that I'll encounter. You can either jump the hurdles or fall to the ground and cry about it.

    I also know there's smooth sailing ahead and try and focus on that as much as possible. If you fall, get your ass up and don't look back.

    Smooth sailing ahead...icon_cool.gif
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 872

    Nov 26, 2015 10:03 PM GMT
    Thanks Lord and my old folks for raising me in an anti-entitlement environment.

    Sure, things can go my way, too. And many times, they do. And oft times, they don't.

    So, you learn how to shrug with your shoulders, and learn how to make the best out of each and every situation that you encounter on your way.

    You also strive to learn how to turn the tables, and make the circumstances you found yourself in work in your favor.

    So, the less time you spend thinking how nice it would have been if all the forces of the universe had conspired to work in your favor the better it isicon_lol.gif

    SC
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    Nov 26, 2015 10:29 PM GMT
    It's hard to say that I deserve anything when I think about those even less fortunate. Kids born into countries where the risk of bombing, shootings, theft and rape are imminent and unlike me, they don't have as many resources to tap into to turn the tides.

    So I can't really say I deserve because what about them? All I can say is that I was fortunate to be born into a country,family and generation that gave me the amount of opportunities that I would not have had if things were different.

    All I can do is accept the cards i've been dealt and play the best hand that I can.....At least until the next set of hands come.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Nov 26, 2015 10:45 PM GMT
    Depends. Some people deserve what they get, and sometimes we have to take the initiative create our own happiness. We are very fortune here in the US. Fortunate that we were not born in an oppressive country where dictators and the wealthy are the only ones considered to deserve anything and the masses are nothing more than carbon based objects to be used as desired.
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    Nov 26, 2015 11:05 PM GMT
    MrFuscle said... Do I deserve a boyfriend, a hot boyfriend, a fulfilling career, wealth, good looks or even a support network...

    -hot boy friend; well maybe just a kind confidant lover?
    -fulfilling career; 6 years in med school?
    -wealth; maybe a new tv?
    -support network; the Book of Job?
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    Nov 26, 2015 11:05 PM GMT
    What about the Truth?....Shouldn't all people deserve the truth?
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    Nov 27, 2015 12:11 AM GMT
    no, nobody deserves happiness
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    Nov 27, 2015 12:48 AM GMT
    No. You don't deserve happiness. If you run around thinking you're deserving you're going to be sadly disappointed a lot in life. You may work hard to impress your boss so you'll get that promotion you think you deserve and that boss is transferred and the new boss promotes someone less deserving instead. You may take care of your health and not smoke yet die of cancer.

    Life is full of twists and turns. You might think you're deserving but that doesn't mean you'll get it.
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    Nov 27, 2015 12:52 AM GMT
    Awesomepossum saidWhat about the Truth?....Shouldn't all people deserve the truth?

    not all people can handle the truth

    What is happiness?

    My 20 year old self would think ill of the happiness I find at 40...
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Nov 27, 2015 1:34 AM GMT


    It is a provocative question, that's a good word for it.


    We're taught that if we work hard, we will get rewarded. Of course, in the case of Job, the message here was to teach that you get what you're given and you shouldn't question it. No doubt an easy way to explain away many of the logical fallacies in the books of the hebrew bible.



    I am not sure how i approach dating. I suppose i must approach it from a sense of entitlement. Though i am not sure if it's entitlement as much of a sense of validation. As in, " i saw my life turning out like this" and not having happily ever after as i envisioned it is scary. But then i guess it begs the question, do i deserve to be validated? Or can i live without validation to the degree i am searching for?


    It's certainly something always worth thinking about.


    @dustin

    No doubt. My 18 year old self would want to murder the 34 year old me for how my life turned out. I remember jobs i laughed at "ending up with" in highschool look pretty damn good to me now. And my expectations at what a satisfying relationship would look like/be like.....my god. 18 year old me was lucky he was really good at denial.





  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Nov 27, 2015 1:56 AM GMT
    Happiness is a state of mind. Not something that is given, deserved, earned. Happiness comes from within and not from some external entity. It is a highly personal sense. Poor people can be happy and rich not happy. The individual decides. Happiness, without getting hippy dippy, is a personal sense of satisfaction. So, to my belief, nothing external has any effect on happiness. Happiness is an internal feeling about yourself, external influences can affect your life, make it easier or more difficult, but how you like yourself is the source of happiness. It is a mindset, not an external situation.
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Nov 27, 2015 2:22 AM GMT
    I don't get the whole Bible thing. Well, I do, Romans adopting pre and post Hebrew to control their Empire, but that being said...

    Why would I, in California, USA. 2015 base my lifestyle on the lifestyle of semi nomadic desert dwellers in the Middle East 2,000 plus years ago? What was important to them, reproducing when most babies died in two years, has nothing to do with me today? Sharing water sources? Sure.

    I don't get it all. I will change my view on religion when someone somewhere can show me anything Jesus said that was not known but was then proven to be true and only he knew it.

    Hey, Apostles, just between you and me, the Earth is not flat, it is round!

    And, keep this to yourselves, you did not hear it from me, but the Earth rotates around the sun. No! Not kidding! But you did not hear it from me...ssshhh.

    And in 1981, I know that number means nothing now but believe me it will, the Forty Niners will win the Super Bowl! bet as many fish and such as you can! It is a sure bet.
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    Nov 27, 2015 3:28 AM GMT
    TheGuyNextDoor saidThe term "deserve" reeks of entitlement. Very millennial angst.
    You have the choice everyday you wake up. You can make it Heaven or Hell. It's your choice...

    I try and make the most of everyday, knowing that there are stumbling blocks that I'll encounter. You can either jump the hurdles or fall to the ground and cry about it.

    I also know there's smooth sailing ahead and try and focus on that as much as possible. If you fall, get your ass up and don't look back.

    Smooth sailing ahead...icon_cool.gif


    I think every generation views younger generations as being more entitled but its probably not so. Its easy to judge others we don't understand but assume we understand because we've had our own struggles.
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    Nov 27, 2015 3:32 AM GMT
    tmac saidIt's hard to say that I deserve anything when I think about those even less fortunate. Kids born into countries where the risk of bombing, shootings, theft and rape are imminent and unlike me, they don't have as many resources to tap into to turn the tides.

    So I can't really say I deserve because what about them? All I can say is that I was fortunate to be born into a country,family and generation that gave me the amount of opportunities that I would not have had if things were different.

    All I can do is accept the cards i've been dealt and play the best hand that I can.....At least until the next set of hands come.


    LOL i have a saying that freaks people out. Sometimes when I am dealing with hardship I'll say, "At least I wasn't raped and shot in my vagina. This is a tactic rebels in the Congo ( and most likely government soldiers as well ) engage in to terrorize local villages. The will rape women, shot them in the vagina with a shot gun and send them back to their village where the village.

    It puts my first world problems, even the most upsetting ones, in perspective.
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    Nov 27, 2015 3:35 AM GMT
    pellaz said
    MrFuscle said... Do I deserve a boyfriend, a hot boyfriend, a fulfilling career, wealth, good looks or even a support network...

    -hot boy friend; well maybe just a kind confidant lover?
    -fulfilling career; 6 years in med school?
    -wealth; maybe a new tv?
    -support network; the Book of Job?


    I am not sure what you are trying to say
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    Nov 27, 2015 3:41 AM GMT
    Awesomepossum saidWhat about the Truth?....Shouldn't all people deserve the truth?


    Its funny you mention the truth. I had a real hard time adapting to the gay men in Houston because Honesty is not a valued trait here. Southerners value getting along and the approval of their pears more than they value honesty. I couldn't understand why guys here had no problem lying to me about their intentions when it came to dating. When I take a step back I really can't say I deserve someone else's honesty. I deserve to seek out honest people. I deserve to have a standard that involves honesty. I deserve the right to enforce that standard. Those entitlements are all based on how I treat myself. Outside of that I'm not sure I deserve honest. I expect it, want it and punish those who deceive me. That doesn't mean I deserve honesty.
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    Nov 27, 2015 3:57 AM GMT
    badbug said

    It is a provocative question, that's a good word for it.


    We're taught that if we work hard, we will get rewarded. Of course, in the case of Job, the message here was to teach that you get what you're given and you shouldn't question it. No doubt an easy way to explain away many of the logical fallacies in the books of the hebrew bible.



    I am not sure how i approach dating. I suppose i must approach it from a sense of entitlement. Though i am not sure if it's entitlement as much of a sense of validation. As in, " i saw my life turning out like this" and not having happily ever after as i envisioned it is scary. But then i guess it begs the question, do i deserve to be validated? Or can i live without validation to the degree i am searching for?


    It's certainly something always worth thinking about.


    @dustin

    No doubt. My 18 year old self would want to murder the 34 year old me for how my life turned out. I remember jobs i laughed at "ending up with" in highschool look pretty damn good to me now. And my expectations at what a satisfying relationship would look like/be like.....my god. 18 year old me was lucky he was really good at denial.







    I disagree on your interpretation of Job. I think its very convenient that many people presume the books of the bible were written in the same way an author would write a novel or a group of authors would write a collection. Its most likely that the books of the bible were written by many different authors of many centuries if not several millennia and consistently edited to fit the culture around them. The book of Job no doubt attempts to answer questions. However I doubt it attempts to simply cover up holes in a particular tradition within a religion that has existed and changed for thousands of years and most likely dates back to oral traditions before writing was invented.

    That is one of the reasons I love Mythology and religion. They are great tools to study the politics and cultures of long dead people. Politics and cultures that affect us in ways we often don't realize. By studying the changes in different mythologies and similar between different mythologies and different religions we can also study when and how certain cultures changed. Its similar to how studying DNA can reveal he migration patterns of a species over the course of millions of years.
  • JackNNJ

    Posts: 1051

    Nov 27, 2015 3:57 AM GMT
    Life does not ask what we want, but it presents us with choices.

    -Thomasio Sowellitus
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    Nov 27, 2015 4:00 AM GMT
    Triggerman saidI don't get the whole Bible thing. Well, I do, Romans adopting pre and post Hebrew to control their Empire, but that being said...

    Why would I, in California, USA. 2015 base my lifestyle on the lifestyle of semi nomadic desert dwellers in the Middle East 2,000 plus years ago? What was important to them, reproducing when most babies died in two years, has nothing to do with me today? Sharing water sources? Sure.

    I don't get it all. I will change my view on religion when someone somewhere can show me anything Jesus said that was not known but was then proven to be true and only he knew it.

    Hey, Apostles, just between you and me, the Earth is not flat, it is round!

    And, keep this to yourselves, you did not hear it from me, but the Earth rotates around the sun. No! Not kidding! But you did not hear it from me...ssshhh.

    And in 1981, I know that number means nothing now but believe me it will, the Forty Niners will win the Super Bowl! bet as many fish and such as you can! It is a sure bet.


    I am happy I was able to give you the opportunity to get that off your chest. I am not sure how t is relevant since at no point did I ask yo to live your life based off of anything. I simply asked a question and pointed to the discussion of a piece of literature that prompted me to ask the question.
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    Nov 27, 2015 4:01 AM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidNo. You don't deserve happiness. If you run around thinking you're deserving you're going to be sadly disappointed a lot in life. You may work hard to impress your boss so you'll get that promotion you think you deserve and that boss is transferred and the new boss promotes someone less deserving instead. You may take care of your health and not smoke yet die of cancer.

    Life is full of twists and turns. You might think you're deserving but that doesn't mean you'll get it.


    You are a very wise man
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Nov 27, 2015 4:11 AM GMT
    MrFuscle-

    I really appreciate your response. You, though I got off topic, and maybe I did, but I was talking to a bigger truth, or maybe not.

    But what I loved was your sweet and respectful response to me. That is class and that is what we lack too often on here and other places. If you disagree, do not attack, ask a question, ask for clarification.

    Anyway, I like you already. You are smart, you ask questions, and you respond respectfully as I hope I do.
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    Nov 27, 2015 4:34 AM GMT
    Triggerman saidMrFuscle-

    I really appreciate your response. You, though I got off topic, and maybe I did, but I was talking to a bigger truth, or maybe not.

    But what I loved was your sweet and respectful response to me. That is class and that is what we lack too often on here and other places. If you disagree, do not attack, ask a question, ask for clarification.

    Anyway, I like you already. You are smart, you ask questions, and you respond respectfully as I hope I do.


    No problem, I love the Diane Rehm Show and I really strive to be like her. She deals with controversial subjects with such grace, humility and respect its hard not to respect her even if you disagree with her.

    As an Agnostic-Christian-Buddhist or in layman's terms a humble follower of Jesus and student of Buddha Shakyumni. I understand how it feels to be a spiritual minority in a society that views your being different as an indication of your value and your morality. Even though I am a religious man, I applaud the people of Australia for electing an Atheist as Prime minister and hope America will one day be able to do the same.

    Even if you don not believe in an spiritual tradition, the bible and all religion and mythology of the world is very important. These are the stories our ancestors, genetically and/or culturally, told themselves to explain their world and their values. We live our lives based on ideas and traditions developed hundreds to thousands of years ago. Our system of government draws its origins from a people who worshiped a thunder God who they believe; cut off the penis of his father, married and slept with his sister, and ate the mother of one of his daughters while she was pregnant with said daughter. Sleep on that.
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Nov 27, 2015 10:37 AM GMT

    I am confused as to what you disagree with?

    My interpretation of Job is a pretty standard one.

    Or is it just my theory as to it being used to explain away inconsistencies in the logic of the tradition?


    If you disagree with my theory, that's perfectly fine.

    If you disagree about a main theme of the actual work, that's less fine. icon_smile.gif
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    Nov 27, 2015 4:31 PM GMT
    badbug said
    I am confused as to what you disagree with?

    My interpretation of Job is a pretty standard one.

    Or is it just my theory as to it being used to explain away inconsistencies in the logic of the tradition?


    If you disagree with my theory, that's perfectly fine.

    If you disagree about a main theme of the actual work, that's less fine. icon_smile.gif


    I disagree that a story that likely evolved over centuries if not longer simply exist to explain away inconsistencies in a particular religion that it self has changed over time. Your interpretation is the common skeptical atheist view of Job but is by far not the only valid interpretation. I interpret the story as a thought exercise on the questions of fairness, entitlement, and the problem of evil. I think it has very little to do with inconsistencies in Judaism and like all religious and mythological works a meditation on the problems of life.