RJ cliché: Young guys can use a mentor... sexually

  • bifocaled

    Posts: 28

    Dec 03, 2015 1:46 AM GMT
    Every couple of weeks I hang out with 2 guys in their 20's, who just came out of the closet. They sought me out for my life experience and advice, as a sort of catch-up to the level of maturity that a straight person would have had the exposure to years sooner.

    If you have been reading up on enough age-gap threads on this froum, you might be surprised to hear that all of this is strictly platonic - as platonic as my piano lessons with my niece. I volunteer part time as a mentor with an LGBT program.

    Many of the older men here advocating for sexual relationships with 20 year olds often cite the "mentoring" factor "we offer life experience" etc. What a load of self-serving bullcrap! The reason why it's taboo for professors to sleep with students or bosses to sleep with employees, is because of the inherent conflict of interest that come with mixing sex and authority figures. If what's best for a sexual protégé is really to have a relationship with one of his peers, will the "mentor" tell him?

    Without going into the myriad of statistical arguments based on rates of success/exploitation/regret in age-gap relationships, this has to be one of the biggest examples of disingenuousness openly perpetuated on RJ
  • dilfforrent

    Posts: 207

    Dec 04, 2015 2:14 AM GMT
    ^^100% agree! If it's just about the sex, which it always is, we should at least be honest about it.
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 873

    Dec 04, 2015 4:00 AM GMT
    MuchmorethanHIV said

    Many of the older men here advocating for sexual relationships with 20 year olds often cite the "mentoring" factor "we offer life experience" etc. What a load of self-serving bullcrap! The reason why it's taboo for professors to sleep with students or bosses to sleep with employees, is because of the inherent conflict of interest that come with mixing sex and authority figures. If what's best for a sexual protégé is really to have a relationship with one of his peers, will the "mentor" tell him?

    Without going into the myriad of statistical arguments based on rates of success/exploitation/regret in age-gap relationships, this has to be one of the biggest examples of disingenuousness openly perpetuated on RJ


    No doubt, the best thing for all adults is to have consensual sex with whomever they want to have sex with.

    Mentoring is mentoring. NOT conducting life of other adults on their behalf. It is one thing to be a guardian, and as such rightly perceived as a figure of authority, and quite another thing to be a mentor who is free to opine but cannot call any shots. Hence, whatever two or more consenting adults decide to do between/among themselves is really only for them to be concerned with.

    It is only too easy to cross the line and stop being a mentor, AND start acting as a guardian. Whereas this may or may not be well-intentioned, it is actually defeating the very purpose of mentoring which is to enable a young or less experienced adult to make his own qualified decisions, and NOT for the mentor to take it upon himself to do so on his behalf.

    SC
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    Dec 04, 2015 4:27 AM GMT
    SilverRRCloud said
    Mentoring is mentoring. NOT conducting life of other adults on their behalf. It is one thing to be a guardian, and as such rightly perceived as a figure of authority, and quite another thing to be a mentor who is free to opine but cannot call any shots. Hence, whatever two or more consenting adults decide to do between/among themselves is really only for them to be concerned with.

    It is only too easy to cross the line and stop being a mentor, AND start acting as a guardian. Whereas this may or may not be well-intentioned, it is actually defeating the very purpose of mentoring which is to enable a young or less experienced adult to make his own qualified decisions, and NOT for the mentor to take it upon himself to do so on his behalf.

    SC

    I had a mentor, when I was 46, an extreme late bloomer. He was 36, much younger than me. But a veteran in the gay world, what I needed starting out. In fact, he was an editor/writer of the Seattle Gay News (SGN), who specialized in HIV/AIDS issues. What he taught me still serves me well.

    We never had sex. Both of us knew that would poison our relationship. And yet we went everywhere together. He introduced me to the gay club scene, essentially being my wingman. And many times we'd be told we made a lovely couple. Which of course was awkward, since we were never a romantic couple.

    So a mentor relationship can be non-sexual. The mentor can even be younger. Just more experienced and knowledgeable. I don't understand how the term mentor can be misconstrued to automatically imply a predatory arrangement.

    It can actually be a very helpful, generous, selfless, and commendable role. I hate to see the word taken to be something it's not, associated exclusively with sex.
  • bifocaled

    Posts: 28

    Dec 04, 2015 4:30 AM GMT
    SilverRRCloud saidNo doubt, the best thing for all adults is to have consensual sex with whomever they want to have sex with.


    That's rather simplistic. Just about everything that isn't criminal is consensual. I'm talking about what's advisable and what's harmful. Young people do all sorts of stupid things they regret later in life, including sleeping with men whom they thought were "mature" and "serious", but were actually just using them for sex. Sometimes they have to find out the hard way, sometimes they don't.
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3525

    Dec 04, 2015 5:36 AM GMT
    MuchmorethanHIV said
    SilverRRCloud saidNo doubt, the best thing for all adults is to have consensual sex with whomever they want to have sex with.


    That's rather simplistic. Just about everything that isn't criminal is consensual. I'm talking about what's advisable and what's harmful. Young people do all sorts of stupid things they regret later in life, including sleeping with men whom they thought were "mature" and "serious", but were actually just using them for sex. Sometimes they have to find out the hard way, sometimes they don't.



    wish i could get used for sex now.

    Funny, it is actually the 20 year olds that are the agressors online for guys in their 40's, as much as id didnt believe it when i was 30, college kids can have a real thing for an adult body. I mean when I was single a couple years ago, I had people in real life and on skype doing things i couldnt GET them to do when i was 25, and for me...really not too special to look at it was really strange. I could just be on skype eating breakfast in bed and really hot frat kid types would beg me to be mean to them and make them do crude things. I didnt even have to be naked or anything, bedhead and all. As long as i was a dom top and showed them my chest hair they would literally stand on their head and cum in their mouths if I told them too. I mean for ME....really....i blame the water supply, but it was fun.
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3525

    Dec 04, 2015 5:41 AM GMT
    I came up with the theory of why later though. So you come out at 22, and everyone you can sleep with is also coming out, and they are all TERRIBLE in bed, so they get someone more experienced and look at the 30 year olds...but everyone 30 HAS bf for 5-10 years...they think well if 30 is okay, a young looking 40 is the same and all the 40 year olds are just getting out the relationships from their 30's ...and that is where the 20 year olds land...in the laps of horny 40 year olds who have been starved for sex at the end and horny, with the libido of a 25 year old, and they know enough about sex to make it work with the 25 year old, whereas another 25 year old would not. It works for a few dates, and then do it with a few others. Then the 40 year old finds a nice boy his age and they go antique shopping for the new house.
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Dec 04, 2015 6:45 AM GMT
    I am 52. I sleep with 31 yo's. Some 25 yo's. A few 21yo's. I do not do it to be a mentor. I love to fuck. I like younger guys. But has that not turned into a mentor relationship? It definitely has for a few. A couple that became non sexual great friends that I trust with my life. Guys I travel with, guys I work out with, a few guys that are actually a mentor to me in life. Sure. It works both ways.
  • christastic

    Posts: 376

    Dec 04, 2015 7:19 AM GMT
    Lol Apparition's "theory"... a sales pitch disguised as a fake explanation to a wishful scenario, that flies in the face of the mountain of anecdotal evidence outside RJ, and even within.

    I've been with a couple of guys in their early 30's and the sex is no different from guys in their 20's. The best sex I've had has almost always been with guys I was dating, regardless of their "skill". Only one hookup was up there, but it was mostly owing to how exceptionally hot the guy was. The worst sex is always with sluts who "know what they're doing" way too well, including one who insisted that I continuously pinch his nipples throughout the ordeal...

  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 873

    Dec 04, 2015 8:11 AM GMT
    MuchmorethanHIV said
    SilverRRCloud saidNo doubt, the best thing for all adults is to have consensual sex with whomever they want to have sex with.


    That's rather simplistic. Just about everything that isn't criminal is consensual. I'm talking about what's advisable and what's harmful. Young people do all sorts of stupid things they regret later in life, including sleeping with men whom they thought were "mature" and "serious", but were actually just using them for sex. Sometimes they have to find out the hard way, sometimes they don't.


    Life is quite often pretty simple unless someone spends time and energy to complicate the matter at hand unnecessarily.

    No one has granted any mentor the right to decide for anyone what is advisable and what is harmful. It is still their life and they are calling the shots.

    A mentor shares his experience, and the other guys calls the shots as he finds fit. He is free to rely on his mentor's experience or disregard it completely as say, being irrelevant in this particular case.

    This is where being a mentor is different from being a guardian.

    ---

    Yup. Some folks have regrets. In the meantime, many 14 year olds already know that later regrets are useless. More so, in the fast living, at times, sexually very charged gay world.

    With all the information flow we enjoy these days, a guy has to be rather disconnected or totally unhinged NOT to be aware of the fact that men of ALL ages would simply want to use them for sex. And many guys whom we may want to perceive here as victims, wish to use other guys, for sex and possibly other fringe benefits, too. Hence, spreading the news that yeah, men, possibly older guys, are lurking out there to use you for sex is very much the same as warning the folks that the sun rises in the east, and that the Pope is Catholic.

    SC

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    Dec 04, 2015 3:51 PM GMT
    MuchmorethanHIV saidIf what's best for a sexual protégé is really to have a relationship with one of his peers, will the "mentor" tell him?


    Hang on, who decides what is 'best'?

    I don't see a problem with sexual mentoring, it's a lot easier to learn how to be good at sex by learning with someone more experienced than yourself than two people who don't have any experience just trying to fumble their way through it together!
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    Dec 04, 2015 3:57 PM GMT
    nocandy.jpg
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    Dec 04, 2015 4:00 PM GMT
    PulseFit said
    MuchmorethanHIV saidIf what's best for a sexual protégé is really to have a relationship with one of his peers, will the "mentor" tell him?


    Hang on, who decides what is 'best'?

    I don't see a problem with sexual mentoring, it's a lot easier to learn how to be good at sex by learning with someone more experienced than yourself than two people who don't have any experience just trying to fumble their way through it together!


    Sometimes it ends up being an older man with ulterior motives manipulating a young persons desire for guidance and authority. That was the gist of muchmorethanHIV's post.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4434

    Dec 04, 2015 9:29 PM GMT
    Well, Mr HIV posits a load of "bullcrap." As usual. No one here has ever made that assertion as to why they like being with younger guys. He just made it up. But I've seen a ton of comments from younger guys that they like being with older guys because of the mentoring/life experience reasons though even there, my guess is they just don't like the inane behavior of some of their young peers. I pity the poor, confused kids you claim to be "mentoring." Hope they figure out what a load of "bullcrap" you're feeding them before you permanently warp them. Sad, really. Although I don't believe for a minute that you actually meet with these kids, as you claim, the thought of you poisoning them with your various sicknesses is enough to turn my stomach.
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    Dec 04, 2015 9:35 PM GMT
    I have tried to deflect guys who are clearly too young into a sort of platonic older-brother type of friendship before, but so far it hasn't worked out.

    First, 20-year olds already know everything. That's why they call it "sophomoric." icon_rolleyes.gif

    Second, all males are horny bastards who just want to get into each other's pants. icon_rolleyes.gificon_twisted.gificon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 04, 2015 10:33 PM GMT
    Lol. I never heard of this. Never happened to me
  • Ezl1234

    Posts: 62

    Dec 04, 2015 10:49 PM GMT
    I totally agree ! I look to older ones for everything ! They have been through life and are wiser !! Unless they are just old prats who think they know everything and prejudge you.
  • MartinMPL

    Posts: 481

    Dec 04, 2015 10:54 PM GMT
    there are some good mentors out there who are not about thinking with their dicks.

    nut majority are thinking with their dicks.
  • dilfforrent

    Posts: 207

    Dec 09, 2015 6:38 AM GMT
    I see this has offended a certain demographic icon_lol.gif
  • bifocaled

    Posts: 28

    Dec 15, 2015 4:48 AM GMT
    SilverRRCloud said
    MuchmorethanHIV said
    SilverRRCloud saidNo doubt, the best thing for all adults is to have consensual sex with whomever they want to have sex with.


    That's rather simplistic. Just about everything that isn't criminal is consensual. I'm talking about what's advisable and what's harmful. Young people do all sorts of stupid things they regret later in life, including sleeping with men whom they thought were "mature" and "serious", but were actually just using them for sex. Sometimes they have to find out the hard way, sometimes they don't.


    No one has granted any mentor the right to decide for anyone what is advisable and what is harmful. It is still their life and they are calling the shots.

    A mentor shares his experience, and the other guys calls the shots as he finds fit. He is free to rely on his mentor's experience or disregard it completely as say, being irrelevant in this particular case.

    This is where being a mentor is different from being a guardian.

    ---

    Yup. Some folks have regrets. In the meantime, many 14 year olds already know that later regrets are useless. More so, in the fast living, at times, sexually very charged gay world.

    With all the information flow we enjoy these days, a guy has to be rather disconnected or totally unhinged NOT to be aware of the fact that men of ALL ages would simply want to use them for sex...


    You realize I'm not talking about actual mentor relationships (which are completely platonic). I was ccontrasting what I do, to the reasons older men on RJ come up with to sell - unsurprisingly - older men, as potential sex partners for 20 year olds, such as the cliché "mentoring" benefits.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 15, 2015 4:32 PM GMT
    Just make sure your mentor isn't a cheapskate. If he tries to treat you like an equal, tell him he's not smooth/hot/legit enough to be your equal, and that he's petty if he doesn't pay your college tuition, rent and buy your friends drinks.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    Dec 15, 2015 11:06 PM GMT
    I do wish i was 20 sometimes i mean everyone wants to be younger. But the insecurities and inexperience in all areas of life i do not miss.. hell no..
  • bifocaled

    Posts: 28

    Jan 28, 2016 5:04 AM GMT
    Destinharbor saidWell, Mr HIV posits a load of "bullcrap." As usual. No one here has ever made that assertion as to why they like being with younger guys. He just made it up. But I've seen a ton of comments from younger guys that they like being with older guys because of the mentoring/life experience reasons though even there, my guess is they just don't like the inane behavior of some of their young peers. I pity the poor, confused kids you claim to be "mentoring." Hope they figure out what a load of "bullcrap" you're feeding them before you permanently warp them. Sad, really. Although I don't believe for a minute that you actually meet with these kids, as you claim, the thought of you poisoning them with your various sicknesses is enough to turn my stomach.


    Wow. I guess it turns your stomach that there are fewer and fewer young and naive prospects out there to take advantage of.
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    Jan 29, 2016 6:29 PM GMT
    First of all, with 9 posts, you talk as if you are VERY familiar with the ageism threads......who are you? You talk about cliches, both sides. Nothing factual. So this seems an exercise in s $@# stirring.

    When I was 18 I knew who the "chicken hawks" were, who the attentive older men were, and even the older men who wanted nothing to do with kids, were.

    I was in control of my sexual behavior. I found chicken hawks laughable.....they'd try weaseling in, manipulation. It was inane and obvious. I dated boys my own age and up. The 35 YO I dated became a lifelong friend. But we came out the same time. So he was kind of an innocent too.

    We all know who the slime balls are, innately....I hope. I knew kids who were cheap hustlers too. They'd trick with the chicken hawks.....they deserved each other!
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    Jan 29, 2016 6:58 PM GMT
    I really don't give two fucks about age. I sleep with someone because I want to first of all. As far dating goes, it has always been a natural progression from just sex and hanging out like that into spending time up close and before you know it, bam! you are in a relationship.

    I have only had two relationships in my life. One was with 21 years old guy when I was 20. It lasted a month and a half.The other time I was with this guy for 2 and half years. I was 22 when we started dating and he was 41.