Out of body experiences

  • Fireworkz

    Posts: 606

    Dec 11, 2015 9:11 AM GMT
    I started a course on the out of body experience although I haven't had one yet I've experienced different states of consciousness.
    I've spoken to quite a few people who had them when they were young.

    Have you had an OBE? Please share your story.
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    Dec 11, 2015 2:44 PM GMT

    Intriguing subject. I tend to be a rather skeptical person about subjects like these because I prefer rigorous scientific scrutiny than just metaphysical interpretations of things. With that said, still want to keep an open mind about these topics.

    When I was in my late teens, I had experiences during sleep that still intrigue me to this day. They did not feel like ordinary dreams at all. In multiple ocassions, I felt like floating out of my body horizontally, then rotating 360 degrees multiple times and then returning to my body. In at least another occasion, I felt like flying away fast to an unknown destination, only to rush back to the body when waking up.

    I stress that those were sensations, so I am not suggesting that I really "left" my body. As said before I need to see more research and evidence on this to learn about it because I am not an expert on the subject. I just remember that the sensation was incredibly peaceful, safe and comforting.

    I wonder why I have not experienced these once I reached full adulthood. I also wonder if what I experienced may have been impacted by hormonal changes during adolescence that may have influenced my brain activity. Anyway I will look into that further.
  • MarvelBoy23

    Posts: 279

    Dec 11, 2015 5:02 PM GMT
    The older we get, the more life weighs on us. Our brains become cluttered with trivial things, daily life and expectations that we don't have so much as younger individuals. All these things will weigh on that aspect. There's a different kind of clarity we have then as opposed to an older age.

    Mushrooms give you that feeling. They leave you with such calm and clarity, it is like having an out of body experience. At least that to my experience!
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    Dec 11, 2015 5:11 PM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    I'm what the lucid dreaming community sometimes refers to as "a natural" ie born this way, so often conscious in my sleep that when I was a very little kid I didn't know the difference between being awake and being asleep. That was back in the day when most if not all of western science thought it impossible to be conscious in sleep so those of us inflicted with such awareness were pretty much left to our own devices.

    While I don't refer to myself as having oobe's (their prior acronym) or astral projection as merrily merrily merrily I consider all of life but a dream, most involved in that would define my experiences as such and of those my count is innumerable.

    I've always approached life with skepticism but also curiosity and in that I've spent much of my life exploring consciousness. If you've specific questions or comments which do not seem to me out of place and if I think I might be able to clarify, I do enjoy encountering brave others who seek to know their true selves.

    "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake" ~~ Henry David Thoreau
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    Dec 11, 2015 5:26 PM GMT
    MarvelBoy23 said... as younger individuals... kind of clarity we have then as opposed to an older age... At least that to my experience!
    odd we are not experiencing this with my step daughtericon_sad.gif
  • Fireworkz

    Posts: 606

    Dec 11, 2015 5:35 PM GMT
    rubrod64 said
    Intriguing subject. I tend to be a rather skeptical person about subjects like these because I prefer rigorous scientific scrutiny than just metaphysical interpretations of things. With that said, still want to keep an open mind about these topics.

    When I was in my late teens, I had experiences during sleep that still intrigue me to this day. They did not feel like ordinary dreams at all. In multiple ocassions, I felt like floating out of my body horizontally, then rotating 360 degrees multiple times and then returning to my body. In at least another occasion, I felt like flying away fast to an unknown destination, only to rush back to the body when waking up.

    I stress that those were sensations, so I am not suggesting that I really "left" my body. As said before I need to see more research and evidence on this to learn about it because I am not an expert on the subject. I just remember that the sensation was incredibly peaceful, safe and comforting.

    I wonder why I have not experienced these once I reached full adulthood. I also wonder if what I experienced may have been impacted by hormonal changes during adolescence that may have influenced my brain activity. Anyway I will look into that further.




    I've been studying with an organisation called the International Academy of Consciousness.

    http://www.iacworld.org/portfolio/the-organization/?gclid=CI_Cxtaq1MkCFcWVGwodRb8F3g

    They use scientific methodology to study the OBE. They have collated hundreds of thousands of accounts and compiled a consensus on some of these topics.

    Most of these guys are scientists, physicists, engineers and psychologists. They have produced a great body of work. It's so scientific my brain hurts in class sometimes with the vocabulary.

    Some of the science uses social science methodology and some using actual equipment. For example they have used MRI machines to study bio energy (chi, prana etc). They are actually true scientists as they are open to their theories being challenged compared to conventional scientists who avoid anything that goes against Newtonian physics.





  • Fireworkz

    Posts: 606

    Dec 11, 2015 5:37 PM GMT
    MarvelBoy23 saidThe older we get, the more life weighs on us. Our brains become cluttered with trivial things, daily life and expectations that we don't have so much as younger individuals. All these things will weigh on that aspect. There's a different kind of clarity we have then as opposed to an older age.

    Mushrooms give you that feeling. They leave you with such calm and clarity, it is like having an out of body experience. At least that to my experience!


    I'm trying to have an OBE without any drugs though lol.
  • monstapex

    Posts: 478

    Dec 11, 2015 7:21 PM GMT
    What are you doing to protect your body while you are out from demons and evil spirits?
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    Dec 12, 2015 2:40 AM GMT
    I have had them while meditating but I have also had them without trying to induce them. It takes a lot of practice and at the same time you have to believe that you can do it. If you doubt your ability to do it then you will probably be right..... at least that is my experience. I have very lucid dreams and I can recall mostly all my dreams every day and sometimes I even get flashbacks through out the day. I dont know if this is related but I believe it is, I believe some can experience OBEs easier than others. My most recent out of body experience was last week while I was in a Sensory Deprivation Tank. I was in the tank for 90 minutes. If you want to have one I say keep practicing, also I find that Astral Projection Music on youtube helps me. You have to find the right setting that works for you. Once you figure out how to induce them then the hardest part wont be getting into an OBE state but maintaining it without getting overexcited. You will see what I mean when you first have it. When I first induced this state I got overexcited and felt myself being pulled right back into my body and I couldnt control it.....but like I said, practice, practice, practice and believe in yourself.

    Good luck!! Keep us updated.

    -G
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    Dec 12, 2015 4:39 AM GMT
    monstapex saidWhat are you doing to protect your body while you are out from demons and evil spirits?

    As if we should tell you. Then you'd be able to figure out how to circumvent them and take over our bodies.   icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 12, 2015 6:56 AM GMT
    ocjockca saidI have had them while meditating but I have also had them without trying to induce them. It takes a lot of practice and at the same time you have to believe that you can do it. If you doubt your ability to do it then you will probably be right..... at least that is my experience. I have very lucid dreams and I can recall mostly all my dreams every day and sometimes I even get flashbacks through out the day. I dont know if this is related but I believe it is, I believe some can experience OBEs easier than others. My most recent out of body experience was last week while I was in a Sensory Deprivation Tank. I was in the tank for 90 minutes. If you want to have one I say keep practicing, also I find that Astral Projection Music on youtube helps me. You have to find the right setting that works for you. Once you figure out how to induce them then the hardest part wont be getting into an OBE state but maintaining it without getting overexcited. You will see what I mean when you first have it. When I first induced this state I got overexcited and felt myself being pulled right back into my body and I couldnt control it.....but like I said, practice, practice, practice and believe in yourself.

    Good luck!! Keep us updated.

    -G


    Correct on detrimental effects of doubting. But also be advised that confidence which does not emanate from experience & right thinking but rather projects as imaginings of ego will limit or delude experience.

    That you said "I have very lucid dreams and I can recall mostly all my dreams every day", did you mean to say very vivid dreams, ie non lucid dreams you observed and then recalled clearly or were you referring to some measure of lucidity of a lucid dream ie dreams you'd have participated within consciously while the dream was occurring.
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    Dec 12, 2015 9:18 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    ocjockca saidI have had them while meditating but I have also had them without trying to induce them. It takes a lot of practice and at the same time you have to believe that you can do it. If you doubt your ability to do it then you will probably be right..... at least that is my experience. I have very lucid dreams and I can recall mostly all my dreams every day and sometimes I even get flashbacks through out the day. I dont know if this is related but I believe it is, I believe some can experience OBEs easier than others. My most recent out of body experience was last week while I was in a Sensory Deprivation Tank. I was in the tank for 90 minutes. If you want to have one I say keep practicing, also I find that Astral Projection Music on youtube helps me. You have to find the right setting that works for you. Once you figure out how to induce them then the hardest part wont be getting into an OBE state but maintaining it without getting overexcited. You will see what I mean when you first have it. When I first induced this state I got overexcited and felt myself being pulled right back into my body and I couldnt control it.....but like I said, practice, practice, practice and believe in yourself.

    Good luck!! Keep us updated.

    -G


    Correct on detrimental effects of doubting. But also be advised that confidence which does not emanate from experience & right thinking but rather projects as imaginings of ego will limit or delude experience.

    That you said "I have very lucid dreams and I can recall mostly all my dreams every day", did you mean to say very vivid dreams, ie non lucid dreams you observed and then recalled clearly or were you referring to some measure of lucidity of a lucid dream ie dreams you'd have participated within consciously while the dream was occurring.


    Well my confidence does emanate from experience but I understand what you mean by the ego.

    and as response to your other question, I was talking about both vivid dreams and lucid dreams.

    "and I can recall mostly all my dreams every day and sometimes I even get flashbacks through out the day" Here I meant vivid dreams as in very detailed and a heightened experience. I feel emotions 10x in these vivid dreams and see things in greater detail.

    "I have very lucid dreams "
    And by lucid dreams, I meant lucid as in knowing that I was dreaming while in my dream and therefore participating within consciously while the dream was occuring. I should have probably said I have lucid dreams. Hope that cleared it up for you.icon_biggrin.gif
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    Dec 12, 2015 5:45 PM GMT
    ocjockca said
    Well my confidence does emanate from experience but I understand what you mean by the ego.

    and as response to your other question, I was talking about both vivid dreams and lucid dreams.

    "and I can recall mostly all my dreams every day and sometimes I even get flashbacks through out the day" Here I meant vivid dreams as in very detailed and a heightened experience. I feel emotions 10x in these vivid dreams and see things in greater detail.

    "I have very lucid dreams "
    And by lucid dreams, I meant lucid as in knowing that I was dreaming while in my dream and therefore participating within consciously while the dream was occuring. I should have probably said I have lucid dreams. Hope that cleared it up for you.icon_biggrin.gif


    With regard to that you said your "confidence does emanate from experience but I understand what you mean by the ego", since you agree with both parts (from where arises confidence and what can be dangers of ego) and since I had said just that, neither saying nor implying otherwise, instead of using the conjunction "but", using "and" would have been more accurate and less confrontational. My emphasis was not simply on experience alone but rather in how we interact within it and reflect upon it.

    By saying you "even get flashbacks throughout the day" do you mean that the memory of having had a dream doesn't always simply maintain itself when coming out of a lucid dream, nor does a non lucid dream come to the awareness of your woken body simply as you wake up, but that you initially remember having had the dream (lucid or non lucid) during any various other time of going about your day?

    I ask because when you say "I even get flashbacks", the "even" makes it sound like you think there's something special about that when it's probably pretty typical of how dreams often come back to us. And so your expressing "I even" in that regard could indicate a touch of grandiosity, an expression of ego unsubdued. It doesn't seem out of control but just something to watch.

    Thank you for "clarifying" the "very" of lucid dreams. I still somewhat suspect you might be playing a little bit of mental dodge ball with that thought because you had so closely tied that dreaming with the "flashbacks" in that thought; but that's okay, you sound like you've the mind to sort it out, your recognition of having removed the "very" from the expressing the type of dream notwithstanding. Though it could have simply been your trying to say two things at once which can happen, so I must in my listening allow for that.

    That you dream lucidly is wonderful and it would follow suit that you also dream vividly when not lucidly. It's okay to not dream lucidly all the time. There's nothing wrong with having very vivid dreams. Nothing to backtrack on here. Let your confidence guide you, haha.

    I thought very good your bringing up the aspect of "maintaining it without getting overexcited" because as you learn self control over that, you'll also find it useful to regulate your level of consciousness within the dreaming as a method of creating, maintaining or destroying a dream and thereby taking your dreaming beyond the dream.
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    Dec 12, 2015 6:13 PM GMT
    rubrod64 said
    Intriguing subject. I tend to be a rather skeptical person about subjects like these because I prefer rigorous scientific scrutiny than just metaphysical interpretations of things. With that said, still want to keep an open mind about these topics.

    When I was in my late teens, I had experiences during sleep that still intrigue me to this day. They did not feel like ordinary dreams at all. In multiple ocassions, I felt like floating out of my body horizontally, then rotating 360 degrees multiple times and then returning to my body. In at least another occasion, I felt like flying away fast to an unknown destination, only to rush back to the body when waking up.

    I stress that those were sensations, so I am not suggesting that I really "left" my body. As said before I need to see more research and evidence on this to learn about it because I am not an expert on the subject. I just remember that the sensation was incredibly peaceful, safe and comforting.

    I wonder why I have not experienced these once I reached full adulthood. I also wonder if what I experienced may have been impacted by hormonal changes during adolescence that may have influenced my brain activity. Anyway I will look into that further.


    You described all that well.

    That you didn't continue with your explorations into your consciousness by this method could have been any number of things, possibly but probably not so much a matter of the physical at that age, however, I don't know how dementia might later play into it. I'll let ya know or hopefully not haha.

    A lifelong lucid dreamer generally and practitioner of dream yoga specifically for decades now, I've wondered if the extra (excess?) thinking during sleeping, particularly at that level of thought, mightn't have established enough neurological connections to help stave off any pending dementia of ageing, but I'm not aware of any conclusive research on that yet.

    Western science is only about one or 2000 years behind the Tibetans on this so I guess I'll just wait and see how I do.

    I have at times during this living nonsense turned off my dreaming and then turned it back on again, so I'd imagine you could still access it if you wanted, though these many years away might mean some work for ya. It could be that you stopped by lack of interest, by fears, by misunderstandings, whatever the case might have been. In my case, particularly the last time I stopped, was because I was so inundated with the consecutive deaths of loved ones that I was mourning in my sleep, giving me no rest whatsoever. I'd wake up with my body crying in convulsions. Not good. So I turned it off consciously. I had also turned it off unconsciously as a child for a few years from when my grandma died until it kicked in again when I was a teenager.

    I've got just a few years on you but we're in the same cohort, so recall that when we were teens, there was very little info on this in the west. So keep in mind that at that time you might have had a lot of fears and certainly a lot of uncertainty which might have helped over time make you comfortable with your skepticism but at the time might have lead you to push away your experiencing of your mind in this way. It is all still there and I'd imagine you could find your way back to it were that your will.
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    Dec 13, 2015 4:52 AM GMT
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    Dec 22, 2015 6:23 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    ocjockca said
    Well my confidence does emanate from experience but I understand what you mean by the ego.

    and as response to your other question, I was talking about both vivid dreams and lucid dreams.

    "and I can recall mostly all my dreams every day and sometimes I even get flashbacks through out the day" Here I meant vivid dreams as in very detailed and a heightened experience. I feel emotions 10x in these vivid dreams and see things in greater detail.

    "I have very lucid dreams "
    And by lucid dreams, I meant lucid as in knowing that I was dreaming while in my dream and therefore participating within consciously while the dream was occuring. I should have probably said I have lucid dreams. Hope that cleared it up for you.icon_biggrin.gif


    With regard to that you said your "confidence does emanate from experience but I understand what you mean by the ego", since you agree with both parts (from where arises confidence and what can be dangers of ego) and since I had said just that, neither saying nor implying otherwise, instead of using the conjunction "but", using "and" would have been more accurate and less confrontational. My emphasis was not simply on experience alone but rather in how we interact within it and reflect upon it.

    By saying you "even get flashbacks throughout the day" do you mean that the memory of having had a dream doesn't always simply maintain itself when coming out of a lucid dream, nor does a non lucid dream come to the awareness of your woken body simply as you wake up, but that you initially remember having had the dream (lucid or non lucid) during any various other time of going about your day?

    I ask because when you say "I even get flashbacks", the "even" makes it sound like you think there's something special about that when it's probably pretty typical of how dreams often come back to us. And so your expressing "I even" in that regard could indicate a touch of grandiosity, an expression of ego unsubdued. It doesn't seem out of control but just something to watch.

    Thank you for "clarifying" the "very" of lucid dreams. I still somewhat suspect you might be playing a little bit of mental dodge ball with that thought because you had so closely tied that dreaming with the "flashbacks" in that thought; but that's okay, you sound like you've the mind to sort it out, your recognition of having removed the "very" from the expressing the type of dream notwithstanding. Though it could have simply been your trying to say two things at once which can happen, so I must in my listening allow for that.

    That you dream lucidly is wonderful and it would follow suit that you also dream vividly when not lucidly. It's okay to not dream lucidly all the time. There's nothing wrong with having very vivid dreams. Nothing to backtrack on here. Let your confidence guide you, haha.

    I thought very good your bringing up the aspect of "maintaining it without getting overexcited" because as you learn self control over that, you'll also find it useful to regulate your level of consciousness within the dreaming as a method of creating, maintaining or destroying a dream and thereby taking your dreaming beyond the dream.



    "And so your expressing "I even" in that regard could indicate a touch of grandiosity, an expression of ego unsubdued. It doesn't seem out of control but just something to watch."

    Your assumptions are not my problem. icon_rolleyes.gif

    I know there isnt wrong with having very vivid dreams. I Wasnt backtracking on anything I was clearing things up for you. I know it took you a while but glad you got it all sorted out icon_biggrin.gif

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    Dec 22, 2015 6:58 PM GMT
    ocjockca said
    theantijock said
    ocjockca said
    Well my confidence does emanate from experience but I understand what you mean by the ego.

    and as response to your other question, I was talking about both vivid dreams and lucid dreams.

    "and I can recall mostly all my dreams every day and sometimes I even get flashbacks through out the day" Here I meant vivid dreams as in very detailed and a heightened experience. I feel emotions 10x in these vivid dreams and see things in greater detail.

    "I have very lucid dreams "
    And by lucid dreams, I meant lucid as in knowing that I was dreaming while in my dream and therefore participating within consciously while the dream was occuring. I should have probably said I have lucid dreams. Hope that cleared it up for you.icon_biggrin.gif


    With regard to that you said your "confidence does emanate from experience but I understand what you mean by the ego", since you agree with both parts (from where arises confidence and what can be dangers of ego) and since I had said just that, neither saying nor implying otherwise, instead of using the conjunction "but", using "and" would have been more accurate and less confrontational. My emphasis was not simply on experience alone but rather in how we interact within it and reflect upon it.

    By saying you "even get flashbacks throughout the day" do you mean that the memory of having had a dream doesn't always simply maintain itself when coming out of a lucid dream, nor does a non lucid dream come to the awareness of your woken body simply as you wake up, but that you initially remember having had the dream (lucid or non lucid) during any various other time of going about your day?

    I ask because when you say "I even get flashbacks", the "even" makes it sound like you think there's something special about that when it's probably pretty typical of how dreams often come back to us. And so your expressing "I even" in that regard could indicate a touch of grandiosity, an expression of ego unsubdued. It doesn't seem out of control but just something to watch.

    Thank you for "clarifying" the "very" of lucid dreams. I still somewhat suspect you might be playing a little bit of mental dodge ball with that thought because you had so closely tied that dreaming with the "flashbacks" in that thought; but that's okay, you sound like you've the mind to sort it out, your recognition of having removed the "very" from the expressing the type of dream notwithstanding. Though it could have simply been your trying to say two things at once which can happen, so I must in my listening allow for that.

    That you dream lucidly is wonderful and it would follow suit that you also dream vividly when not lucidly. It's okay to not dream lucidly all the time. There's nothing wrong with having very vivid dreams. Nothing to backtrack on here. Let your confidence guide you, haha.

    I thought very good your bringing up the aspect of "maintaining it without getting overexcited" because as you learn self control over that, you'll also find it useful to regulate your level of consciousness within the dreaming as a method of creating, maintaining or destroying a dream and thereby taking your dreaming beyond the dream.



    "And so your expressing "I even" in that regard could indicate a touch of grandiosity, an expression of ego unsubdued. It doesn't seem out of control but just something to watch."

    Your assumptions are not my problem. icon_rolleyes.gif

    I know there isnt wrong with having very vivid dreams. I Wasnt backtracking on anything I was clearing things up for you. I know it took you a while but glad you got it all sorted out icon_biggrin.gif



    Being cocky isn't really a denial of grandiosity.

    Best of luck to you.
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    Dec 22, 2015 7:18 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    ocjockca said
    theantijock said
    ocjockca said
    Well my confidence does emanate from experience but I understand what you mean by the ego.

    and as response to your other question, I was talking about both vivid dreams and lucid dreams.

    "and I can recall mostly all my dreams every day and sometimes I even get flashbacks through out the day" Here I meant vivid dreams as in very detailed and a heightened experience. I feel emotions 10x in these vivid dreams and see things in greater detail.

    "I have very lucid dreams "
    And by lucid dreams, I meant lucid as in knowing that I was dreaming while in my dream and therefore participating within consciously while the dream was occuring. I should have probably said I have lucid dreams. Hope that cleared it up for you.icon_biggrin.gif


    With regard to that you said your "confidence does emanate from experience but I understand what you mean by the ego", since you agree with both parts (from where arises confidence and what can be dangers of ego) and since I had said just that, neither saying nor implying otherwise, instead of using the conjunction "but", using "and" would have been more accurate and less confrontational. My emphasis was not simply on experience alone but rather in how we interact within it and reflect upon it.

    By saying you "even get flashbacks throughout the day" do you mean that the memory of having had a dream doesn't always simply maintain itself when coming out of a lucid dream, nor does a non lucid dream come to the awareness of your woken body simply as you wake up, but that you initially remember having had the dream (lucid or non lucid) during any various other time of going about your day?

    I ask because when you say "I even get flashbacks", the "even" makes it sound like you think there's something special about that when it's probably pretty typical of how dreams often come back to us. And so your expressing "I even" in that regard could indicate a touch of grandiosity, an expression of ego unsubdued. It doesn't seem out of control but just something to watch.

    Thank you for "clarifying" the "very" of lucid dreams. I still somewhat suspect you might be playing a little bit of mental dodge ball with that thought because you had so closely tied that dreaming with the "flashbacks" in that thought; but that's okay, you sound like you've the mind to sort it out, your recognition of having removed the "very" from the expressing the type of dream notwithstanding. Though it could have simply been your trying to say two things at once which can happen, so I must in my listening allow for that.

    That you dream lucidly is wonderful and it would follow suit that you also dream vividly when not lucidly. It's okay to not dream lucidly all the time. There's nothing wrong with having very vivid dreams. Nothing to backtrack on here. Let your confidence guide you, haha.

    I thought very good your bringing up the aspect of "maintaining it without getting overexcited" because as you learn self control over that, you'll also find it useful to regulate your level of consciousness within the dreaming as a method of creating, maintaining or destroying a dream and thereby taking your dreaming beyond the dream.



    "And so your expressing "I even" in that regard could indicate a touch of grandiosity, an expression of ego unsubdued. It doesn't seem out of control but just something to watch."

    Your assumptions are not my problem. icon_rolleyes.gif

    I know there isnt wrong with having very vivid dreams. I Wasnt backtracking on anything I was clearing things up for you. I know it took you a while but glad you got it all sorted out icon_biggrin.gif



    Being cocky isn't really a denial of grandiosity.

    Best of luck to you.



    Sorry I hurt your fragile ego.

    Best of luck to you too icon_biggrin.gif
  • Fireworkz

    Posts: 606

    Feb 04, 2016 9:32 PM GMT
    I had my first lucid dream experience this week it was amazing.
    I started off in my room then flew around to different dreamscapes it was very vivid and real.

    I can't verify that it was an OBE as I didn't see any external verification in the real world but it definitely felt very real. It was fun flying.

    I had been studying the experience so when I went out of my body I knew what was happening and had some expectation of what to expect.

    I dictated my experience as I woke up so that I wouldn't forget it. Just after waking it was so vivid, now it seems like a faded memory so I'm glad I recorded it.
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    Apr 16, 2016 1:44 AM GMT

    Here are good blog posts on the topic:
    http://www.erinpavlina.com/blog/tag/astral-projection/
    http://www.erinpavlina.com/blog/tag/lucid-dreaming/
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    Apr 16, 2016 7:58 PM GMT
    Fireworkz saidI started a course on the out of body experience although I haven't had one yet I've experienced different states of consciousness.
    I've spoken to quite a few people who had them when they were young.

    Have you had an OBE? Please share your story.


    What is the point of doing that under normal circumstances?
    You would have to communicate with people telepathically since your body is not where out of body location is.

    Why be a drone?

    Under non-normal circumstances there are reasons to do that. Develop those muscles for that and get some skills for that; but, other than that, why?

    Second, death gives one plenty of time to have OBEs and communicate with people telepathically. Read about it in Life between Lives by Michael Newton.