Jesus: Prince or Pauper or Both

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 13, 2015 3:56 AM GMT
    Steefen: I still wonder if Queen Helena was a queen of the Jews, her husband, a king of the Jews, their son, Izates, a prince and a king of the Jews after they converted to Judaism and lived in their palace in Jerusalem. I also wonder if Helena’s king who was recognized as wise by Augustus lost his protected status and was killed. The Babylonian Talmud says Jesus was given 40 days notice before sentencing and/or execution * because he was connected to government . *

    Response (in memory of another person interested in the historical Jesus, Joseph Raymond, nonfiction author of Herodian Messiah and historical fiction author of Grandson of Herod):

    Both Matthew and Luke herald a king being born. How does that happen unless that child were born of a king?
    The ancestor list found in Luke, Ch. 3 appears to contain the names of Hasmonean kings. Who does ancestor lists just for the type of person Bart Ehrman makes of Jesus?

    Jesus’ denied he was a son of David. See Matthew 22:41-45, Mark 12:35-37 and Luke 20:41-44. Herod the Great was not of the family tree of King David.

    History records no slaughter of the innocents in Bethlehem. Herod knew exactly who he was looking for, but the gospels couldn’t admit that so a plausible story was created to cover the truth.

    The family did flee the country returning only for a visit during Passover when he was 12.

    Think about that – how did they get to Jerusalem during that trip? By caravan, and you don’t take a caravan from Nazareth to Jerusalem. You walk, like every one else. But you do take a caravan when you’re coming from a long distance.

    – The private audience that Pilate granted Jesus is a courtesy generally only granted to Roman citizens.
    – And then you have the Sanhedrin which had found him guilty of blasphemy but threw up their hands and claimed that they had no authority over him.
    – Herod Archelaus, who would have been more than happy to eliminate a rival, said the same.
    – The only class of citizen with that kind of immunity would have been a Roman citizen. Herod the Great, being a client king of Rome, was granted Roman citizenship.

    Steefen: Okay, an illegitimate son of Herod the Great or maybe a grandson of Herod the Great was Jesus. Jesus did call the Temple his father’s House of Prayer. We may be talking about a son rather than a grandson. The Talmud says Jesus was connected to government. Maybe that means Jesus was illegitimately connected to government.

    Bart Ehrman says we cannot trust the Palm Sunday account: 1) it was not triumphant and 2) not one palm branch was waved while people said: Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. It is really tearful that Dr. Ehrman is going out on that limb. It is a limb because he cannot evidence Jesus did not stage an entrance of riding in on a donkey (or what have you) referencing kingship. Second, this should have been Jesus’ height of popularity; so, we *would* have been witnessing a triumph of, at least, his celebrity. This prophet of the placebo effect, this faith healer, this preacher, this deliverer of parables, this user of the invertor of Heron of Alexandria’s “miracle vase” which could have water poured in it then, when the vase was turned a different way, wine came out, this messenger of good news and this man who showed compassion for widows and children was celebrated and had a personal triumph. Jesus’ biggest spectacle would have been what would be his great fate or his tragic fate in Jerusalem.

    In conclusion, the husband and sons of Queen Helena are not the only ones to lend royalty to the Jesus Story.

  • Dec 13, 2015 3:43 PM GMT
    icon_razz.gif
    lovely to find someone read old books 2222
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 14, 2015 6:49 AM GMT
    One of the composite Jesuses likely was some sort of illegitimate son of Herod the Great and the surviving daughter of the king he deposed.

    This Jesus was raised by Queen Helena.
    Her husband was called Monobazus, sole king; but, the only sole king was Herod the Great. The King of Edessa may have been married to Queen Helena but he was not the biological father of Izates.

    For more information, one book to read is Herodian Messiah by Joseph Raymond.

    The thought that Jesus was the Flavian Trinity refers to Jesus and the Son of Man as an adult, not at birth.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 14, 2015 6:55 AM GMT
    This Jesus was raised by Queen Helena. Her husband was called Monobazus, sole king; but, the only sole king was Herod the Great.

    The King of Edessa may have been married to Queen Helena but he was not the biological father of Izates. Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 14, 2015 7:10 AM GMT
    You know this is correct because Izates had an older brother by Monobazus (King Herod the Great). And who would that be but none other than Antipater II (Greek: Ἀντίπατρος; c. 46 – 4 BC), Herod the Great's first-born son, his only child by his first wife Doris. After he was executed, Izates became his only begotten son.

    Not so fast: Antipater II would be Izates' deceased step-brother.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 14, 2015 7:11 AM GMT
    Why would Queen Helena's husband not be friends with Herod the Great? Her husband was close to Augustus. Rome trusted Herod the Great to be a client king.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 14, 2015 7:16 AM GMT
    Herod the Great would trust and ask a favor of Queen Helena's husband, the wisest man Augustus knew, to raise his outsider son.