Liberal Muslims? What religions have formed in America?

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    Dec 13, 2015 10:12 PM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    For those adamantly against Muslims in America, what makes you think Islam will remain in the same form as it might exhibit in the Middle East, especially after it's been here a while?

    What became of other religions when they got here?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_movements_that_began_in_the_United_States
    17th century
    Baptists in the United States / Major Baptist organizations in the U.S First Baptist Church in America, 1638
    First Baptist Church in Newport, 1644
    Southern Baptist Convention, 1845
    National Baptist Convention, 1880
    American Baptist Churches USA, 1907
    National Baptist Convention of America, 1915
    Progressive National Baptist Convention, 1961
    Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, 1991

    18th century
    Shakers - formed in 1772 by Ann Lee in Manchester, England, but relocated to Watervliet, New York a few years later
    Neo-Druidism - Late 18th century

    19th century
    Christian Universalism/Unitarianism Universalist Church of America, 1793
    American Unitarian Association, 1825
    Unitarian Universalism, 1961
    Latter Day Saint movement/Mormonism, 1830
    New Thought Movement, 1830s onward Divine Science, 1888
    Unity Church, 1889
    Religious Science, 1927
    Adventist/Millerites, 1840s Seventh-day Adventist Church, 1863
    Spiritualism, 1840s
    Jehovah's Witnesses, 1870 (1931)
    The Theosophical Society (Eastern Theosophy), 1875
    Ethical Culture, 1877 onward
    Church of Christ, Scientist (Christian Science), 1879
    Polish National Catholic Church, 1897

    20th century
    Pentecostalism Azusa Street Revival, 1906
    Pentecostal denominations in North America
    The Rosicrucian Fellowship (Esoteric Christianity, Western Theosophy, Western mystery tradition), 1909 (1313)
    Moorish Science Temple of America, 1913
    Nation of Islam, founded in Detroit, Michigan by Wallace Fard Muhammad in July 1930
    New religious movements and cults: Huna (New Age),1936
    Scientology, 1954
    Peoples Temple, 1955
    Branch Davidians, 1955
    Westboro Baptist Church, 1955 Radical American unaffiliated Baptist
    Eckankar, 1965
    Church of Satan (LaVeyan Satanism), 1966
    Church of the SubGenius, 1970s
    Heaven's Gate, 1970s
    The Creativity Movement, 1973
    Kemetic Orthodoxy, 1988
    Endeavor Academy (Course in Miracles), 1992
    Wicca, 1954


    Because when it comes to the inventiveness, the innovation of the mindset inherent to inhabiting this country, religion is not exempt.

    So the burkas of today might become a reverse Gone with the Wind set of curtains tomorrow.

    Just think of the next generation. These kids will be in public school and they're gonna wanna swim along with everyone else. They're still kids, right? They'll wanna be on the swim team at school. To compete among their peers, in a burkini? Ya can't win a meet in one of those things. How long do you think before they start showing skin at the public pool? They won't be putting up with their parents' traditions any more so than did we.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 13, 2015 10:13 PM GMT
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Muslim_movements
    Liberal movements within Islam involve professed Muslims who have produced a considerable body of liberal thought on the re-interpretation and reform of Islamic understanding and practice.[1][2] Their work is sometimes characterized[by whom?] as "progressive Islam" (Arabic: الإسلام التقدمي‎ al-Islām at-taqaddumī ), although some[who?] regard progressive Islam and liberal Islam as two distinct movements.[3]

    The methodologies of liberal or progressive Islam rest on the interpretation and re-interpretation of traditional Islamic scripture (the Quran) and other texts (such as the Hadith), a process called ijtihad (see below).[4] This can vary from the slight to the most liberal, where only the meaning of the Quran is considered to be a revelation, with its expression in words seen as the work of the Muhammad in his particular time and context. As a consequence, liberal/progressive Muslims may then interpret verses from the Quran allegorically or even set them aside.
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    Dec 13, 2015 10:18 PM GMT
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims_for_Progressive_Values
    Muslims for Progressive Values (MPV) was founded and incorporated by Ani Zonneveld August 2007, headquartered in Los Angeles and with a regional office in Malaysia. It is a faith-based human rights organization with networks in Bangladesh, Canada, France, Chile, Germany, the Netherlands and Australia, and throughout the U.S. MPV provides educational and theological resources for Muslims with a liberal or progressive Islamic worldview


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Canadian_Congress
    The Muslim Canadian Congress was organized to provide a voice to Muslims who support a "progressive, liberal, pluralistic, democratic, and secular society where everyone has the freedom of religion


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Muslim_Union
    The CMU, while advocating separation of Religion and State, works with and within the Muslim community, engaging it in issues of human rights, human dignity, social justice and alternate progressive and inclusive visions of Islam.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Alliance_for_Sexual_and_Gender_Diversity
    The Muslim Alliance for Sexual and Gender Diversity (MASGD) was launched in January 2013.[1] The organization was formed by members of the Queer Muslim Working Group, with the support of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. Several initial MASGD members previously had been involved with the Al-Fatiha Foundation, including Faisal Alam and Imam Daayiee Abdullah.[2]

    The mission statement of MASGD states: "The Muslim Alliance for Sexual and Gender Diversity works to support, empower and connect LGBTQ Muslims. We seek to challenge root causes of oppression, including misogyny and xenophobia. We aim to increase the acceptance of gender and sexual diversity within Muslim communities, and to promote a progressive understanding of Islam that is centered on inclusion, justice, and equality."[3]
  • Sincityfan

    Posts: 409

    Dec 13, 2015 10:26 PM GMT
    Is this a thread about oxymora?
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Dec 14, 2015 12:05 AM GMT
    I've met two couples in which the husband is Muslim and the wife is Christian. In the first couple, the boys attend the mosque and the girls attend the church. I don't know how the second couple worked it out, but they don't seem to have any problems with it.

    Some of the Europeans in the early American colonies migrated to escape religious persecution but persecuted others after arriving. Eventually their descendants began to accept religious diversity. Based on my observations, Muslims will too.
  • JackNNJ

    Posts: 1051

    Dec 14, 2015 1:24 AM GMT
    Religions will change, but white Liberals will remain dicks.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 14, 2015 1:46 AM GMT
    Moot question.

    Before this happens, the muzzies will have placed a nuclear device in a truck, driven into some large city...and detonated it. In Manhattan, and they'd kill 1/2 million people with incalculable economic consequences.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 14, 2015 2:08 AM GMT
    I think its more important to look at religion, overall, not just in the US where christians claim they founded the place, which we know is far from the truth. The settlers were European, that is what 1776 Independence Day means, the US became independent from Europe. Europe's main religion(s), from the Roman Empire, were Christian and Islam (crusades). It just appears to me this fight between the two has something to do with supremacy within the US. Of course christians want to dominate. This is making much more sense as to why, the US right wing nut jobs have accused president Obama of being a Muslim, in fear that their religion 'takes over. This is even more evident with the Israel-Palestine conflict who appear to be afraid of the same thing

    The US-Israel (christian) conflicts with Arab-Muslim (islam) leads to me to believe that this problem is definitely a sick conspiracy to dominate the world with one religion

    Since these two religions are hell bent on destroying the earth with countless wars and deaths, I nominate New Age, as the US and world religion of choice, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age
    Despite its highly eclectic nature, a number of beliefs commonly found within the New Age movement have been identified. Theologically, the movement typically adopts a belief in a holistic form of divinity which imbues all of the universe, including human beings themselves. There is thus a strong emphasis on the spiritual authority of the self. This is accompanied by a common belief in a wide variety of semi-divine non-human entities, such as angels and masters, with whom humans can communicate, particularly through the form of channeling. Typically viewing human history as being divided into a series of distinct ages, a common New Age belief is that whereas once humanity lived in an age of great technological advancement and spiritual wisdom, it has entered a period of spiritual degeneracy, which will be remedied through the establishment of a coming Age of Aquarius, from which the movement gets its name. There is also a strong focus on healing, particularly using forms of alternative medicine, and an emphasis on a "New Age science" which seeks to unite science and spirituality.

    Those involved in the New Age movement have been primarily from middle and upper-middle-class backgrounds. The degree to which New Agers are involved in the movement varied considerably, from those who adopted a number of New Age ideas and practices to those who fully embraced and dedicated their lives to it. The movement has generated criticism from established Christian organisations as well as contemporary Pagan and indigenous communities. From the 1990s onward, the movement became the subject of research by academic scholars of religious studies

    Those involved in the movement rarely consider it to be "religion" – negatively associating the latter solely with organized religion – and instead describe their practices as "spirituality".[14] Religious studies scholars however have repeatedly referred to the movement as a "religion"; Hanegraaff for instance described the New Age as a "religious movement".[15] The New Age movement is a form of Western esotericism.[16] Hanegraaff considered the New Age to be a form of "popular culture criticism", in that it represented a reaction against the dominant Western values of Judeo-Christian religion and rationalism,[17] adding that "New Age religion formulates such criticism not at random, but falls back on" the ideas of earlier Western esoteric groups.



    List of religions and spiritual traditions (ALL pagan symbols)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

    Religious symbols in clock-wise order: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bahá'í Faith, Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Slavic neopaganism, Celtic polytheism, Heathenism (German paganism), Semitic neopaganism, Wicca, Kemetism (Egyptian paganism), Hellenism, Italo-Roman neopaganism


    RELIGIONES.png
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 14, 2015 2:00 PM GMT
    Many Muslims in the US settle in their own communities, have their own schools and don't integrate into the American melting pot, that's the problem.

    It is ridiculous that when I go the gym, I can't ask a Muslim woman if I can work in because she isn't allowed to speak to men.

    It is ridiculous that a Muslim woman will stand at the glass door of my office with a backpack and refuse to communicate why she is standing there. How am I suppose to know she is waiting for her husband to exit.

    It is ridiculous that I cannot ask the Muslim checkout woman a question at Target.
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    Dec 14, 2015 4:44 PM GMT
    The most reliable indicator of what may happen in the future is to study and apply what's happened in the past. Nothing in Islam's violent and intolerant history indicates that it is capable, let alone willing, to change or evolve as the unnamed OP suggests. Instead, it appears to retrench wherever it goes; late converts are always the most fervent.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 14, 2015 4:46 PM GMT
    mx5guynj saidMany Muslims in the US settle in their own communities, have their own schools and don't integrate into the American melting pot, that's the problem.

    It is ridiculous that when I go the gym, I can't ask a Muslim woman if I can work in because she isn't allowed to speak to men.

    It is ridiculous that a Muslim woman will stand at the glass door of my office with a backpack and refuse to communicate why she is standing there. How am I suppose to know she is waiting for her husband to exit.

    It is ridiculous that I cannot ask the Muslim checkout woman a question at Target.


    What's even more ridiculous is when she sues for some sort of "discrimination" after exhibiting these behaviors. Can you spell S-E-T-U-P?

    Me, I just avoid 'em and any other like-minded idiots.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 14, 2015 5:22 PM GMT
    mx5guynj saidMany Muslims in the US settle in their own communities, have their own schools and don't integrate into the American melting pot, that's the problem.

    It is ridiculous that when I go the gym, I can't ask a Muslim woman if I can work in because she isn't allowed to speak to men.

    It is ridiculous that a Muslim woman will stand at the glass door of my office with a backpack and refuse to communicate why she is standing there. How am I suppose to know she is waiting for her husband to exit.

    It is ridiculous that I cannot ask the Muslim checkout woman a question at Target.


    I'd probably get real concerned with that.
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    Dec 14, 2015 6:34 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidThe most reliable indicator of what may happen in the future is to study and apply what's happened in the past. Nothing in Islam's violent and intolerant history indicates that it is capable, let alone willing, to change or evolve as the unnamed OP suggests. Instead, it appears to retrench wherever it goes; late converts are always the most fervent.


    If the only or most reliable indicator of what may happen in the future is to study the past then I rest assured, cuntselor, that you'll remain fat, ugly and pompous, whether you find yourself here or in hell, where you should go.

    However, neither is past performance always a predictor of future results, particularly when you take a fish out of water--swim pool turd swim--nor is Islam brand new to America. There was a large wave of immigrants from Iran, escaping the shaw, here now since the 1970/80s. We used to protest on their behalf when I was in school. What trouble have they caused that you'd have miss-predicted?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Americans
    Iranian-Americans or Persian-Americans, are Americans of Iranian ancestry or people possessing Iranian and American dual citizenship. Iranian-Americans are among the highest-educated people in the United States.[11][12] They have historically excelled in business, academia, the sciences, arts, and entertainment – but have traditionally shied away from participating in American politics and other civic activities


    How well have they assimilated?

    A 2012 national telephone survey of a sample of 400 Iranian-Americans, commissioned by the Public Affairs Alliance of Iranian Americans and conducted by Zogby Research Services, asked the respondents what their religions were. The responses broke down as follows: Muslim: 31%, atheist/realist/humanist: 11%, agnostic: 8%, Baha’i: 7%, Jewish: 5%, Protestant: 5%, Roman Catholic: 2%, Zoroastrian: 2%, "Other": 15%, and "No response": 15%.[10] The survey had a cooperation rate of 31.2%.[10] The margin of error for the results was +/- 5 percentage points, with higher margins of error in sub-groups.[10] Prominently, the number of Muslims decreased from 42% in 2008 to 31% in 2012.[10][38]

    ...According to Harvard University professor Robert D. Putnam, the average Iranian is slightly less religious than the average American.[39] Iranian-Americans are distancing themselves from Islam, having accepted the negative characteristics associated with the religion

    ...The Small Business Administration (SBA) conducted a study that found Iranian immigrants among the top 20 immigrant groups with the highest rate of business ownership, contributing substantially to the U.S. economy.

    ...According to Census 2000, 50.9 percent of Iranian immigrants have attained a bachelor's degree or higher, compared to 28.0 percent national average.[11] According to the latest census data available, more than one in four Iranian-Americans holds a master's or doctoral degree


    America is not the Middle East. America is not Europe.

    When it comes to being proud of America, some of you are all talk until it comes time to showing a spine and there you have no pride, just prejudice.

    According to the Public Affairs Alliance of Iranian Americans, nearly half of Iranian-Americans surveyed in 2008 by Zogby International have experienced or personally know Iranian Americans who have experienced discrimination due to their ethnicity or country of origin.


    America is the great liberalizer. That is the flag you can't stand by. You are too weak minded, too empty of spirit, too damned of soul.
  • lostlogic

    Posts: 223

    Dec 15, 2015 3:38 AM GMT
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Dec 16, 2015 12:59 AM GMT
    mx5guynj saidMany Muslims in the US settle in their own communities, have their own schools and don't integrate into the American melting pot, that's the problem.

    It is ridiculous that when I go the gym, I can't ask a Muslim woman if I can work in because she isn't allowed to speak to men.

    It is ridiculous that a Muslim woman will stand at the glass door of my office with a backpack and refuse to communicate why she is standing there. How am I suppose to know she is waiting for her husband to exit.

    It is ridiculous that I cannot ask the Muslim checkout woman a question at Target.


    Many Muslim women will speak to men. I've greeted them "A salaam alaikum" and they have responded. They are not all alike.

    You should be able to ask a checkout woman at a store a question, even if she is Muslim. If she will not respond, feel perfectly free to block the line until she does respond. Say something like, "Ma'am, I am asking you a question and I expect an answer." You can also tell her that she is being very rude; you would be well within your rights. If she really believes that her religion prohibits her from speaking to customers (it does not), she should not be working at that job.

    Of course people of other religions have every right to maintain their traditions and we should support that, but that right does not extend to being rude.