Science Flies You To The Moon...

  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Feb 04, 2009 8:22 AM GMT
    victor-stenger-bus.jpg
    Oooh snap! My new favorite saying!
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    Feb 04, 2009 3:25 PM GMT
    Ooh so clever those English. Forever set to lead the way in tolerance, race relations, and witty bumper stickers; whatever will they think of next? Maybe the Princes will sponsor "take a Paki to lunch day"?
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    Feb 04, 2009 3:36 PM GMT
    Oh my Darwin !!! this is genious !! you are gonna see it in my MSN for sure !

    I'm wondering what city this is in ?



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    Feb 04, 2009 5:03 PM GMT
    London
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    Feb 04, 2009 7:13 PM GMT

    As long as it's a campaign against religion, not particulary Islam, and not some political thing ... maybe if we could read the small blue letters on the side .. icon_confused.gif
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    Feb 04, 2009 7:14 PM GMT
    Haha good one buddy, my new saying as wellicon_biggrin.gif
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    Feb 04, 2009 7:26 PM GMT
    It's hilarious, and I say that as a religious person who isn't so fucked up he can't laugh at it all. Others, however.... Well, lets just say flame war in 3...2...1.....icon_lol.gif
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    Feb 06, 2009 3:58 AM GMT
    It's kinda erm... off-color. But true nonetheless. icon_razz.gif *me gets the popcorn ready*
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    Feb 06, 2009 4:00 AM GMT
    Sedative saidIt's kinda erm... off-color. But true nonetheless. icon_razz.gif *me gets the popcorn ready*

    Photobucket
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Feb 06, 2009 4:11 AM GMT
    More fuel... Let's light this thread up bitches!
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    Feb 06, 2009 4:13 AM GMT
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    Feb 06, 2009 4:20 PM GMT
    Heywood_Floyd saidOoh so clever those English. Forever set to lead the way in tolerance, race relations, and witty bumper stickers; whatever will they think of next? Maybe the Princes will sponsor "take a Paki to lunch day"?


    Actually, motherfucker, we have a much better understanding of mutual respect and tolerance in the United Kingdom than you blatantly do.

    Your revolting epithet is a depersonalizing one that dehumanizes a group of people. The advert on the bus criticizes *religion* and NOT *religious* people.

    So shut the fuck up okay?
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Feb 07, 2009 12:42 AM GMT
    TigerTim said
    Heywood_Floyd saidOoh so clever those English. Forever set to lead the way in tolerance, race relations, and witty bumper stickers; whatever will they think of next? Maybe the Princes will sponsor "take a Paki to lunch day"?


    Actually, motherfucker, we have a much better understanding of mutual respect and tolerance in the United Kingdom than you blatantly do.

    Your revolting epithet is a depersonalizing one that dehumanizes a group of people. The advert on the bus criticizes *religion* and NOT *religious* people.

    So shut the fuck up okay?
    Fuck yeah bro! Love the nasty talk! So hawt!
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    Feb 07, 2009 1:33 AM GMT
    Umm, no, not okay?

    "(CBS) The video at the center of Great Britain's latest royal uproar was shot by one of the Queen's own grandson's.

    CBS News correspondent Elizabeth Palmer reports that during his 2006 tour in Iraq, Prince Harry shot a video that he likely wishes never surfaced. It has.

    The video shows Harry and his fellow cadets waiting to fly to Cyprus on training exercises. Zooming in on one of the squadron members, Harry identifies him as a "Paki," a common derogatory term in Britain for people of South Asian descent.

    "There's a little Paki," Harry is heard saying.

    The cadet pictured is believed to be Ahmed Raga Khan, a member of Harry's squadron from Pakistan. He was given the outstanding Overseas Cadet Award by the Queen at Sandhurst, Britain's elite military college which Prince Harry also attended.

    A spokesman for Prince Harry said he had apologized for using the term, but had not intended any malice.

    "That word he used is a hate word and should never be used against any Pakistani," said Kahn's father Muhammad Yaqoob Khan Abbasi, who lives in Pakistan.

    Khan's uncle, who lives in Britain, says it was a "hurtful" remark"
    .

    This particular motherfucker doesn't credit for a second that "we have a much better understanding of mutual respect and tolerance in the United Kingdom than you blatantly do". Exactly which part of this island utopia would you be referring to? I wonder if people in Northern Ireland or Scotland share your cheerful perspective? I wonder if the wife of the dead solicitor who had his head kicked in by some hoodie teenager's boot shares your supercilious moral certitude?

    This bus slogan, concocted by the British Humanist Association, serves no purpose beyond provocation. I wonder if a similarly provocative slogan had been commissioned by some Imam in a British Mosque if that Imam mightn't be tried under the anti-incitement laws?

    Now lets see, who flies into buildings????? Perhaps this curling bit of wit makes reference to the Al Qaeda terrorists who flew passengers, fuel, and 757s into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and a field in Pennsylvania?

    By religion what is meant? Is it a reference to the religion of terrorism? Rather, perhaps, does such enlightened sloganeering intentionally conflate the crime of terrorism with the Islamic religion?

    Nah, your right, my weak grasp of history, British benevolence, religion, terrorism, and rational thought have blinded this "motherfucker" to the true and generous intent of the "revolting epithet" that came from Prince Harry on 12th January 2009 - Less than a month ago.

    Consider all of your instructive and well meaning suggestions accepted in precisely the generous spirit in which they have been offered, save that one little bit about shutting up.


    TigerTim said
    Heywood_Floyd saidOoh so clever those English. Forever set to lead the way in tolerance, race relations, and witty bumper stickers; whatever will they think of next? Maybe the Princes will sponsor "take a Paki to lunch day"?


    Actually, motherfucker, we have a much better understanding of mutual respect and tolerance in the United Kingdom than you blatantly do.

    Your revolting epithet is a depersonalizing one that dehumanizes a group of people. The advert on the bus criticizes *religion* and NOT *religious* people.

    So shut the fuck up okay?
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:16 PM GMT
    From today's New York Times


    08lyall.xlarge1.jpg

    LONDON — Britons generally agree — or say they do — that being racist is bad and that making racist remarks is wrong. But there is no national consensus on what that means, exactly.

    Take references to “golliwogs,” which are Little Black Sambo-style dolls, or to “Pakis,” a slur referring to people of Pakistani descent. Both terms have been used in Britain recently by famous people in infamous incidents. But though public condemnation followed each time, so did condemnation of the condemnation, the gist of which was that no offense had been meant, so no offense should have been taken.

    08lyall.1902.jpg

    Perhaps these mixed-up responses come in part because Britain, while deeply cherishing its tradition of free speech, also has laws against using language that incites racial hatred, said Robert Ford, a postdoctoral research fellow in sociology at the University of Manchester who studies racial attitudes in Britain.

    “There’s a debate over whether these laws are acceptable in a free-speech society,” Mr. Ford said. “Some people say that freedom of speech is a fundamental birthright and that to condemn people for their language is ‘political correctness gone mad.’ ”

    Last week the country was consumed by the offensiveness (or not) of the term golliwog after Carol Thatcher, the 55-year-old daughter of former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, used it in an off-air comment at the BBC.

    The term derives from the character, inspired by black minstrel rag dolls, in Florence Kate Upton’s children’s books of the late 1800s. The golliwog was a popular toy before it became an offensive term to describe black Britons.

    Chatting as she sat in a BBC green room after recording “The One Show,” a television magazine program, Ms. Thatcher, it later emerged, said something to the effect that the French tennis player Jo-Wilfried Tsonga, who has a white French mother and a black Congolese father, reminded her of a golliwog. Several people there complained and word got out to BBC officials, who said the remark was “highly offensive.”

    The BBC fired Ms. Thatcher from her slot as a regular contributor to the program after, it said, she dismissed her comment as a “light remark” and failed to make an appropriate apology.

    As a result, the BBC was deluged by thousands of angry complaints accusing it of overreacting. Many made the argument that there is nothing so horribly wrong with “golliwog,” anyway.

    “She was making a friendly joke, rather as someone of the same generation might say, ‘Ooh, he looks just like Rupert Bear,’ ” the columnist Charles Moore wrote in The Daily Telegraph. Alluding to a postwar group of Conservatives who responded to a description of the party as “vermin” by forming the Vermin Club, Mr. Moore suggested that Ms. Thatcher “start a Golliwog Club.”

    Britain was a different place when children routinely played with golliwogs. The popular children’s author Enid Blyton used them as characters in her books, and many whites thought nothing of using ethnic slurs against other groups, a holdover from the days of the British Empire, when the ruling classes generally said what they liked. The original title of Agatha Christie’s 1939 book “And Then There Were None” used the most pervasive racial epithet for blacks, and the book’s cover showed a golliwog swinging on a noose.

    But golliwog dolls are still sold in some stores in Britain, including, until last week, the gift shop at Sandringham, one of Queen Elizabeth’s estates. The shop yanked them when the news got out. Buckingham Palace said that the estate managers “did not mean to offend anyone.”

    Then there is the matter of the queen’s grandson Prince Harry and the “Paki” video. The video, made by Harry himself, showed him blithely calling a fellow Army officer his “little Paki friend.” Since Harry had once demonstrated a certain insensitivity to nuance by appearing at a costume party in a Nazi outfit, the incident was perhaps not so surprising.

    Harry apologized; the army apologized; everyone fell all over themselves to denounce the use of “Paki.” Even his friends said that Harry had used poor judgment and bad taste.

    Then, again, came the backlash against the backlash.

    In The Daily Telegraph, the columnist Simon Heffer said that, sure, the incident was unfortunate but that “the barely concealed, self-righteous glee with which solemn, boot-faced toadies of the politically correct establishment queued up to condemn the Prince” was nearly as bad.

    By way of defending Prince Harry, an Indian friend of the family named Kolin Dhillun, who plays polo with Prince Charles, revealed that Charles calls him “Sooty,” and that he doesn’t mind at all.

    Perhaps it is a generational phenomenon, or an upper-class one, or a bit of both.

    “What is disappointing is that lately all this vitriol and condescension seems to be all generated from the upper echelons of society, people who you would imagine would view themselves as being cosmopolitan and having a global outlook on the world,” said Jonathan Thomas, the secretary of 100 Black Men of London, a group that mentors young people.

    He has a point. Prince Philip, the queen’s husband (and Harry’s grandfather) and the epitome of the old-school upper classes, has a famous history of insulting groups of all kinds around the world, from Scotland to Australia.

    “Deaf? If you are near there, no wonder you are deaf,” he barked at a group of young deaf people in Wales, referring to a loud band playing nearby. In 1986 he warned British students in Beijing that “if you stay here much longer, you’ll all be slitty-eyed.”

    Meanwhile, the Eton- and Oxford-educated Conservative politician Boris Johnson once referred to “flag-waving piccaninnies” in a column for The Daily Telegraph. In 2006, he managed to offend an entire country when he wrote about “Papua New Guinea-style orgies of cannibalism and chief-killing.”

    Mr. Johnson then promised to “add Papua New Guinea to my global itinerary of apology.”

    Last year, he was elected mayor of London.
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:31 PM GMT
    PC sucks. its for overly-sensitive pansies who take everything- especially themselves- too seriously.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwNSNLPIfw

    "ethnic jokes might be uncouth but ya laugh because they're based on truth; don't take them as personal attacks- everyone enjoys them- so relax"
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:59 PM GMT
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    This is great!


    Although to be honest it might cross the line somewhat. 9/11 is a touchy subject. I suspect even many non religious folks who lost family in 9/11 might be angry to see that event used like this.
  • JayneCobb

    Posts: 709

    Feb 09, 2009 4:09 PM GMT
    Well the bus is simply pointing out a fact is it not?

    If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Feb 09, 2009 4:21 PM GMT
    Heywood_Floyd saidOoh so clever those English. Forever set to lead the way in tolerance, race relations, and witty bumper stickers; whatever will they think of next? Maybe the Princes will sponsor "take a Paki to lunch day"?
    Well you seem to be equating someone's religion with someone's race or ethic origins. Someone's religion is a choice. People choose to believe that if they fly themselves into buildings then there will be virgins waiting in heaven for them.
    And besides, most of the killers on the planes were from Saudi Arabia not Pakistan.
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    Feb 09, 2009 4:54 PM GMT
    JayneCobb saidWell the bus is simply pointing out a fact is it not?

    If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.


    A fact? icon_wink.gif

    Well to break it down science assisted religiously motivated individuals to fly a plane into a building.

    As Richard Dawkins himself notes in his Boeing 747 dig at the religious, science and technology (not God) built the 747 airliner. So science helped build a vessel capable of being used as a living missile.
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    Feb 09, 2009 5:34 PM GMT
    This is precisely the point. That advertisement seeks to conflate faith with terrorism for an audience who doesn't make much distinction between the two.

    No matter what the belief structure that motivates terrorist action, be they the beliefs of Guy Fawkes, Mohammed Atta, Tim McVeigh, or Ted Kczynski terrorism is a crime. Actually, in my opinion it is a crime against humanity.

    Religion is not race, but race and religion are conveniently conjoined for the purposes of manipulating public opinion.

    It would be extremely hard for me to imagine that anyone actually believes that extreme jihadists are training people to kill themselves and their fellow human beings because they tell themselves this is what the Quran directs them to do. No, those jihadists are manipulating the underlying rage of their victims for political aims.

    How many Londoners (or New Yorkers, or Parisians, or Angelinos, etc.) could correctly identify Pakistan and Saudi Arabia on an unmarked map of the arab world?

    Again, I return to the question, what other religion could that slogan possibly be referring to? They are obviously talking about 9/11 and Islam. Equating that terrorist act with Islam is not only dumb, it is hugely destructive.

    Even graphically it makes the clear distinction between occidental science and oriental religion.

    From what I have seen of these discussions there is absolutely no nuance. Particularly your (SwimBike) line of reasoning is black and white. People are divided up into two categories, atheists and idiots. That echos President Bush's philosophical unipolarity in his "either your with us or your with the terrorists" line of reasoning, if you want to call it reasoning.

    Personally, I believe in science - and I consider the lunar landing and the election of President Obama to be the two proudest moments in my lifetime as an American.

    I consider the likelihood that there is a God, as conventionally conceived, to be infinitesimal. What I think people are talking about when they talk about God are natural phenomena. Finally, I choose to entertain a polytheistic notion because it is a fun way to explain coincidences that I couldn't otherwise explain.

    What I don't see is how stuff like this dumb bus placard campaign helps anything. If Fred Phelps bought those bus placards and put up signs that says God Hates Fags people would be outraged.

    Last point, I do think this sort of thing obliquely points to the racial strains that are present in occidental society. Those cracks are really showing in Britain because the extreme experience of racial integration that we have been living in America for roughly 100 years is just getting going in a serious way in the U.K.

    It is relevant that people from the chattering classes feel that it is OK to use racial epithets. Yeah, most people use racial humor in the privacy of their own home or with very close friends. However, most people are not Heirs Apparent or making those statements in television studios. Most people exhibit better judgement than that.

    The most eloquent way to make the point about atheism would be to finally be able to explain how the universe actually does work. Once we get to that moment religion will serve no further purpose. No one thinks a light switch is magical, they take it for granted.






    swimbikerun said
    Heywood_Floyd saidOoh so clever those English. Forever set to lead the way in tolerance, race relations, and witty bumper stickers; whatever will they think of next? Maybe the Princes will sponsor "take a Paki to lunch day"?
    Well you seem to be equating someone's religion with someone's race or ethic origins. Someone's religion is a choice. People choose to believe that if they fly themselves into buildings then there will be virgins waiting in heaven for them.
    And besides, most of the killers on the planes were from Saudi Arabia not Pakistan.