I wouldn’t be HIV-positive if PrEP was available in Australia: Dean Beck

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    Dec 18, 2015 8:40 PM GMT
    http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/local-news/victoria-news/i-wouldnt-be-hiv-positive-if-prep-was-available-in-australia-dean-beck/135265


    He is a HIV prevention advocate. A gay man who knew what to do, yet he became POZ.

    "Beck hopes adding his voice to the ranks of out HIV-positive men shouting for change will make a difference, and said HIV-negative people have an important role to play.

    “If you’re negative, do your very best to stay negative, and use every tool available to do that, and help get PrEP available for you, or if not for you, then for somebody else who thinks they might need it,” he said.

    “And if you’re critical of people living with HIV, be very, very careful, because unless you’re perfect, it just might be you one day. But hopefully with PrEP it won’t be. And if you know someone on PrEP, congratulate them for taking responsibility for their own sexual health and wellbeing, and that of others.”"

    For me, in relation to some of the people on RJ like Art Deco and Davida, I thought this was important “There will be people that draw their own conclusions around my failings, that’s fine, they’re entitled to do that, but I would counsel anyone who is critical of people with HIV to be very, very careful, because you never know when it might just be you.”

    As Art Deco and others have commented: why should I listen to someone who is POZ? They made a mistake, or were responsible for their infection. As if the state of being positive itself invalidates their knowledge. It doesn't. Whether negative, newly infected or a long term survivor like myself the information is status blind, being negative does not make anyone an expert.

    Given the choice in 1982 I would have gone on PrEP in a heart beat!

  • David3K

    Posts: 231

    Dec 19, 2015 12:06 AM GMT
    Guy is HIV+ because he didnt care enough to use a condom, dont blame Prep icon_rolleyes.gif

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    Dec 19, 2015 12:22 AM GMT
    Somewhere I read about Australian guys buying gray market prep from Indian pharmacies. (I think it was the two-pill combo, rather than truvada, but basically the same thing.). IIRC, they said it cost something like $100 or $125 a month. Not sure how that compares to what people with insurance are paying for the legal stuff in the US.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Dec 19, 2015 12:44 AM GMT
    David666K saidGuy is HIV+ because he didnt care enough to use a condom, dont blame Prep icon_rolleyes.gif



    Perhaps he used a condom and it broke. It happens.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Dec 19, 2015 12:46 AM GMT
    mindgarden saidSomewhere I read about Australian guys buying gray market prep from Indian pharmacies. (I think it was the two-pill combo, rather than truvada, but basically the same thing.). IIRC, they said it cost something like $100 or $125 a month. Not sure how that compares to what people with insurance are paying for the legal stuff in the US.


    The source of medications is important. There are a lot of counterfeit medications. Counterfeit pills are carefully made to look like the real thing but they do not perform like the real thing.
  • David3K

    Posts: 231

    Dec 19, 2015 12:52 AM GMT
    FRE0 said
    David666K saidGuy is HIV+ because he didnt care enough to use a condom, dont blame Prep icon_rolleyes.gif



    Perhaps he used a condom and it broke. It happens.

    Only if he wore it wrong or if it wasnt in good condition. It's unlikely he got infected if he wore a condom. He probably just didn't, which is the main source of HIV infections.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Dec 19, 2015 12:54 AM GMT
    David666K said
    FRE0 said
    David666K saidGuy is HIV+ because he didnt care enough to use a condom, dont blame Prep icon_rolleyes.gif



    Perhaps he used a condom and it broke. It happens.

    Only if he wore it wrong or if it wasnt in good condition. It's unlikely he got infected if he wore a condom. He probably just didn't, which is the main source of HIV infections.


    Or perhaps he mistakenly thought that oral sex is safe. It's a common misconception.
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    Dec 19, 2015 1:04 AM GMT
    Or perhaps he was an idiot and is crying about it because he didn't use his brain and expects a drug to compensate for slutty risky behavior.

    I'm so tired of gay guys using PrEP as an excuse not to wear a condom and have unprotected sex. PrEP doesn't protect against other STI's or STDs, so what is it about PrEP that is all of the sudden a cure all for safe sex practices.

    Every guy I've met that has HIV got it from using drugs(Meth mostly) and having unprotected sex with many guys. They also usually have Hep C from the drug use of needles.

    So when someone cries about wanting to be on PrEP so they can't get HIV, I literally want to throw the fuck up. How obnoxious and crass to use a drug to substitute for reckless sexual behavior.

    As far as I'm concerned, anyone who contracts HIV through risky promiscuous sex willingly deserves their curse. I'm tired of all these guys crying because they either want to be on PrEP for all the wrong reasons, or because they have HIV and can't get someone to date them--I would and never will date someone who has HIV, I'm not an idiot.

    I don't care how this may make me sound, I've read up on PrEP and it is to be used with a condom and safe sex practices, and rates of other STI's and STD's such and syphllis and herpes are going up because PrEP doesn't protect against those, and doesn't take the place of condoms.

    I think it's a good idea to take PrEP if you are a well qualified candidate for it, but just taking it or getting it because you are a slut, doesn't qualify, and I don't think it should be given out to just anyone without a full screaming and understanding of the person who wants to be on it.

    Should someone choose to enter a relationship with someone who has HIV, the non infected partner should indeed be on PrEP, but still be using condoms for any kind of penetration. Sluts do not qualify.
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    Dec 19, 2015 1:38 AM GMT
    FRE0 said
    mindgarden saidSomewhere I read about Australian guys buying gray market prep from Indian pharmacies. (I think it was the two-pill combo, rather than truvada, but basically the same thing.). IIRC, they said it cost something like $100 or $125 a month. Not sure how that compares to what people with insurance are paying for the legal stuff in the US.


    The source of medications is important. There are a lot of counterfeit medications. Counterfeit pills are carefully made to look like the real thing but they do not perform like the real thing.


    That is actually not correct. "Counterfeit" means only that the price gougers are not getting paid astronomical sums for old off-patent medicines that they are running a scam on. They also sponsor a lot of misleading horror stories in the media. I.e. Properly labeled meds from India or Other countries are listed as "fake," because they are not the brand licensed for US sales.

    One of the instrument manufacturers recently did a demonstration study of their new hand-held Raman, Cross-checked against lab analysis. They were trying to identify "fake" viagra from several hundred samples confiscated by US customs. They could not find a single one that wasn't exactly what it was supposed to be.

    I have been paying attention to this for a while because lots of my parents friends and relatives were getting most of their medications from outside the country. Paying US prices was just not in the realm of possibility. Even the kids asthma inhalers have been jacked up from $10 to over $150 for no legitimate reason.

  • David3K

    Posts: 231

    Dec 19, 2015 2:17 AM GMT
    FRE0 said
    David666K said
    FRE0 said
    David666K saidGuy is HIV+ because he didnt care enough to use a condom, dont blame Prep icon_rolleyes.gif



    Perhaps he used a condom and it broke. It happens.

    Only if he wore it wrong or if it wasnt in good condition. It's unlikely he got infected if he wore a condom. He probably just didn't, which is the main source of HIV infections.


    Or perhaps he mistakenly thought that oral sex is safe. It's a common misconception.


    Very unlikely. Why are you trying to get around the fact the vast majority of HIV+ infections come from barebacking?
  • David3K

    Posts: 231

    Dec 19, 2015 2:51 AM GMT
    jjohnson88 saidOr perhaps he was an idiot and is crying about it because he didn't use his brain and expects a drug to compensate for slutty risky behavior.

    I'm so tired of gay guys using PrEP as an excuse not to wear a condom and have unprotected sex. PrEP doesn't protect against other STI's or STDs, so what is it about PrEP that is all of the sudden a cure all for safe sex practices.

    Every guy I've met that has HIV got it from using drugs(Meth mostly) and having unprotected sex with many guys. They also usually have Hep C from the drug use of needles.

    So when someone cries about wanting to be on PrEP so they can't get HIV, I literally want to throw the fuck up. How obnoxious and crass to use a drug to substitute for reckless sexual behavior.

    As far as I'm concerned, anyone who contracts HIV through risky promiscuous sex willingly deserves their curse. I'm tired of all these guys crying because they either want to be on PrEP for all the wrong reasons, or because they have HIV and can't get someone to date them--I would and never will date someone who has HIV, I'm not an idiot.

    I don't care how this may make me sound, I've read up on PrEP and it is to be used with a condom and safe sex practices, and rates of other STI's and STD's such and syphllis and herpes are going up because PrEP doesn't protect against those, and doesn't take the place of condoms.

    I think it's a good idea to take PrEP if you are a well qualified candidate for it, but just taking it or getting it because you are a slut, doesn't qualify, and I don't think it should be given out to just anyone without a full screaming and understanding of the person who wants to be on it.

    Should someone choose to enter a relationship with someone who has HIV, the non infected partner should indeed be on PrEP, but still be using condoms for any kind of penetration. Sluts do not qualify.


    +1000
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    Dec 19, 2015 3:01 AM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Given the choice in 1982 I would have gone on PrEP in a heart beat!

    Is 1982 when he (you?) contracted HIV? Then my congrats to him or you and respect for being a long-term survivor. I personally know a few others.

    In 1982 nobody was still sure what this thing was, it wasn't even being universally called HIV yet, but identified with several other terms. And safe sex protocols hadn't yet been established and promoted.

    So if 1982 is when he or you contracted HIV then you're innocent & blameless. You were doing what gay men of that era did. No one had warned you otherwise.

    But today is 2015, almost 2016, not 1982. PrEP may have come onto the scene since, but other established safe sex practices are still valid. They work in conjunction with PrEP, but PrEP alone does not provide a single protection that anyone should trust their life upon.

    Barebacking is still risky, no matter how you rationalize it, or what single method you use. Far better to combine all the protection you can get, if you wanna approach a zero risk.

    I lived with a poz partner for a number of years. And was his bottom, an unusual role for me, but I loved him. We practiced safe sex with condoms. I remain negative today. And then he suddenly died of AIDS. (Literally passing away in my arms, perhaps the most traumatic experience in my life)

    So I kinda have some first-hand knowledge of this thing. In addition to all the work my husband (who also lost a partner to AIDS) and I do for the HIV/AIDS community, and all the information we directly receive from medical professionals in this field.

    I encourage promotion of PrEP. I do not endorse representation of it as allowing barebacking. PrEP is one tool among several, that should be used in conjunction with others, not alone.
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    Dec 19, 2015 3:27 AM GMT
    robbaker said
    jjohnson88 saidOr perhaps he was an idiot and is crying about it because he didn't use his brain and expects a drug to compensate for slutty risky behavior.

    I'm so tired of gay guys using PrEP as an excuse not to wear a condom and have unprotected sex. PrEP doesn't protect against other STI's or STDs, so what is it about PrEP that is all of the sudden a cure all for safe sex practices.

    Every guy I've met that has HIV got it from using drugs(Meth mostly) and having unprotected sex with many guys. They also usually have Hep C from the drug use of needles.

    So when someone cries about wanting to be on PrEP so they can't get HIV, I literally want to throw the fuck up. How obnoxious and crass to use a drug to substitute for reckless sexual behavior.

    As far as I'm concerned, anyone who contracts HIV through risky promiscuous sex willingly deserves their curse. I'm tired of all these guys crying because they either want to be on PrEP for all the wrong reasons, or because they have HIV and can't get someone to date them--I would and never will date someone who has HIV, I'm not an idiot.

    I don't care how this may make me sound, I've read up on PrEP and it is to be used with a condom and safe sex practices, and rates of other STI's and STD's such and syphllis and herpes are going up because PrEP doesn't protect against those, and doesn't take the place of condoms.

    I think it's a good idea to take PrEP if you are a well qualified candidate for it, but just taking it or getting it because you are a slut, doesn't qualify, and I don't think it should be given out to just anyone without a full screaming and understanding of the person who wants to be on it.

    Should someone choose to enter a relationship with someone who has HIV, the non infected partner should indeed be on PrEP, but still be using condoms for any kind of penetration. Sluts do not qualify.



    BRAVO! awesome read finally someone with common sense in here!


    So you actually agree with me?
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    Dec 19, 2015 3:32 AM GMT
    robbaker saidand that goes for all them barebacking pornstars like cutlerx, sean cody,maverickmen,treasure island media,antonnio biaggi,adam russo, colby keller,armond rizzo all playing russian roulette icon_eek.gif


    What pisses me off about porn stars and porn sites is they all promote the idea of unsafe sex and spreading disease. There are even porn sites out there that promote spreading or willingly infect someone with HIV. WTF!? Who willingly wants to get HIV?

    I enjoy watching porn from time to time, and especially bareback, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get fucked by as many guys as I can and not care about my status.

    The porn industry promotes risky and unsafe sex practices, and in the gay community, it's even worse. Most porn stars probably need to be taking PrEP or get tighter restrictions on testing for STD's and STI's and they need to stop promoting willing HIV transmission, especially with barebacking.

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    Dec 19, 2015 3:40 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    timmm55 said
    Given the choice in 1982 I would have gone on PrEP in a heart beat!

    Is 1982 when you contracted HIV? Then my congrats to you and respect for being a long-term survivor. I personally know a few others.

    In 1982 nobody was still sure what this thing was, it wasn't even being universally called HIV yet, but identified with several other terms. And safe sex protocols hadn't yet been established and promoted.

    So if 1982 is when you contracted HIV then you are innocent & blameless. You were doing what gay men of that era did. No one had warned you otherwise.

    But today is 2015, almost 2016, not 1982. PrEP may have come onto the scene since, but other established safe sex practices are still valid. They work in conjunction with PrEP, but PrEP alone does not provide a single protection that anyone should trust their life upon.

    Barebacking is still risky, no matter how you rationalize it, or what single method you use. Far better to combine all the protection you can get, if you wanna approach a zero risk.

    I lived with a poz partner for a number of years. And was his bottom, an unusual role for me, but I loved him. We practiced safe sex with condoms. I remain negative today. And then he suddenly died of AIDS. (Literally passing away in my arms, perhaps the most traumatic experience in my life)

    So I kinda have some first-hand knowledge of this thing. In addition to all the work my husband (who also lost a partner to AIDS) and I do for the HIV/AIDS community, and all the information we receive from medical professionals in this field.

    I encourage your promotion of PrEP. I do not endorse your representation of it as allowing barebacking. PrEP is one tool among several, that should be used in conjunction with others, not alone.


    I agree with all of whoever said this. I am also sorry to hear about your loss.

    I had to watch a movie in my health class last term on the HIV/Aids epidemic, and it was very scary and sad for me to watch because I wasn't born during the beginning of it, and to watch guys die that fast from "gay cancer" as it was called--very eye opening for me as I was born in 1988.

    At one point before HIV or AIDS was established, it was called G.R.I.D or gay related immune deficiency.

    The movie I'm referencing here is "And The Band Played" I think it came out in 1992.

    But yes, PrEP should not be used for bareback sex because there it still a risk, and many gay guys my age use as a reason not to wear a condom. This is why sex education for LGBTQ people in so important because it was and still isn't emphasized in American public schools.

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    Dec 19, 2015 3:41 AM GMT
    David666K said
    jjohnson88 saidOr perhaps he was an idiot and is crying about it because he didn't use his brain and expects a drug to compensate for slutty risky behavior.

    I'm so tired of gay guys using PrEP as an excuse not to wear a condom and have unprotected sex. PrEP doesn't protect against other STI's or STDs, so what is it about PrEP that is all of the sudden a cure all for safe sex practices.

    Every guy I've met that has HIV got it from using drugs(Meth mostly) and having unprotected sex with many guys. They also usually have Hep C from the drug use of needles.

    So when someone cries about wanting to be on PrEP so they can't get HIV, I literally want to throw the fuck up. How obnoxious and crass to use a drug to substitute for reckless sexual behavior.

    As far as I'm concerned, anyone who contracts HIV through risky promiscuous sex willingly deserves their curse. I'm tired of all these guys crying because they either want to be on PrEP for all the wrong reasons, or because they have HIV and can't get someone to date them--I would and never will date someone who has HIV, I'm not an idiot.

    I don't care how this may make me sound, I've read up on PrEP and it is to be used with a condom and safe sex practices, and rates of other STI's and STD's such and syphllis and herpes are going up because PrEP doesn't protect against those, and doesn't take the place of condoms.

    I think it's a good idea to take PrEP if you are a well qualified candidate for it, but just taking it or getting it because you are a slut, doesn't qualify, and I don't think it should be given out to just anyone without a full screaming and understanding of the person who wants to be on it.

    Should someone choose to enter a relationship with someone who has HIV, the non infected partner should indeed be on PrEP, but still be using condoms for any kind of penetration. Sluts do not qualify.


    +1000


    +1000?
  • David3K

    Posts: 231

    Dec 19, 2015 3:49 AM GMT
    ^ That I gave you 1000 thumbs up...
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    Dec 19, 2015 5:28 AM GMT
    mindgarden saidSomewhere I read about Australian guys buying gray market prep from Indian pharmacies. (I think it was the two-pill combo, rather than truvada, but basically the same thing.). IIRC, they said it cost something like $100 or $125 a month. Not sure how that compares to what people with insurance are paying for the legal stuff in the US.


    Blue Cross/Blue Shield Federal Health Insurance Plan - the co-pay is $80 for 90 day supply, or $0.89 per day through a plan they have set up through CVS pharmacy mail order. One would think other insurance plans have similar arrangements. It'd be up to $700+ a month at a retail pharmacy out of pocket. Gilead is the manufacturer and has a copay coupon card assistance program. You can find info to a link about applying for it through their web site and there's a pharmacy search engine of sorts and it gives prices based on your insurance and the retailer.
    I do have a card although I have not used it yet. Not sure if they will accept it at the CVS mail order place but will try it.

    When taking Truvada you have to be tested quarterly before your physician will renew the script. Plan accordingly so you don't miss a pill.
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    Dec 19, 2015 6:16 AM GMT
    http://www.we-are-1.com/prep
  • mar0302

    Posts: 273

    Dec 19, 2015 10:25 AM GMT
    Wow.. lots of judging going on in this thread.. Prep has proven in real-world studies to be nearly 100% effective when taken properly in the prevention of HIV..

    - http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/iPrEx_OLE_results_1667_25922.shtml
    - http://attitude.co.uk/prep-100-percent-effective-in-preventing-hiv-us-study-claims/
    - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3226288/Daily-HIV-drug-PREVENTS-virus-developing-100-healthy-gay-men.html

    But, apparently it's less effective when it's HIV contracted by intravenous drug use..

    Condoms, on the other hand, tend to be effective less.. and we all know that people don't wear condoms ALL of the time.. studies (time and time again) have shown that about 50% of gay men admit to not using a condom at least once over the last year for anal sex.. Nobody is perfect.. I imagine not even some of the judgemental people in this post..

    The problem is, as everyone points out, Prep doesn't prevent other STI's, which are mostly curable.. so condoms can still help with other diseases ..

    As someone that was young during the 1980's, I didn't have to watch all my friends die from AIDS, although I was aware of when Rock Hudson died, and Liberace died, the AIDS quilt in Washington, and Elizabeth Taylor fundraising activities and the thousands of pictures and stories of people wasting away from AIDS-related diseases.. When I started working, I also had a colleague die at work from AIDS.. so I understand a bit about it, and I feel the pain that this disease has caused to our community and the lost talented souls that could have contributed so much to this world.. and it really annoys me when people focus on shaming someone's behaviours rather than focus on what's important - preventing HIV infection - which prep is proven -time and time again - to do... a bit less slut shaming please, and a bit more focus on outcomes and acceptance...

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    Dec 19, 2015 12:37 PM GMT
    PreP can never be blamed. The guys had a choice to have sex. So live with it. Hate it when ppl look 4 something to blame
  • mrwritenow

    Posts: 15

    Dec 19, 2015 5:10 PM GMT
    My friend Sharon give rides to infirmed/injured people after procedures. One client was a county hospital administrator who seemed overjoyed about something. She asked. He was ecstatic over the fact that only 15 people had received HIV infections due to blood transfusions. The normal rate was twice that. Otherwise healthy people going in for operations hundreds are fine, but a few will not be. She and her elderly mother are a match - B+. So she donates her blood for her mother's surgeries..

    Condoms, while an effective barrier (and better than nothing - except abstinence), are not fool proof. They do break and some have tiny holes in them. I have had two break on me and I buy mine and get some from my two local LGBT community centers. I always check the dates and discard them when I think they've sat around too long. My neighbors didn't want children and were using condoms and not the pill. Their first child is due in February. I'm more excited than they are, but they are getting prepared.
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    Dec 19, 2015 8:16 PM GMT
    mrwritenow saidMy friend Sharon give rides to infirmed/injured people after procedures. One client was a county hospital administrator who seemed overjoyed about something. She asked. He was ecstatic over the fact that only 15 people had received HIV infections due to blood transfusions. The normal rate was twice that. Otherwise healthy people going in for operations hundreds are fine, but a few will not be. She and her elderly mother are a match - B+. So she donates her blood for her mother's surgeries..

    Condoms, while an effective barrier (and better than nothing - except abstinence), are not fool proof. They do break and some have tiny holes in them. I have had two break on me and I buy mine and get some from my two local LGBT community centers. I always check the dates and discard them when I think they've sat around too long. My neighbors didn't want children and were using condoms and not the pill. Their first child is due in February. I'm more excited than they are, but they are getting prepared.



    Mayo Clinic says 1 in 2 million for HIV from blood transfusions.

    http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/blood-transfusion/basics/risks/prc-20021256


    If 30 infections are typical it's a lot less than 1 in 2 million.


    I've posted several studies on condoms. Although many people claim 100%, no study confirms that. Among adult heterosexuals it was 85%. Anal sex is tougher on condoms.

    If you put all your trust in condoms, gay or straight, you need to look at this: [url]http://io9.gizmodo.com/what-are-the-real-odds-that-your-birth-control-will-fai-1634707739?trending_test_five_b&utm_expid=66866090-76.Xf7HV5ZSS3i8CtAkjmzQiA.2&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com[/url]
    Until there is an equivalent to an implant, human error (even with PrEP) will be an issue.

    I feel sorry for the people on here who will become positive. And it WILL happen. The self-recrimination you will feel isn't fair. There is no blame whether it was in 1982 or 2015.


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    Dec 19, 2015 8:22 PM GMT
    mar0302 saidWow.. lots of judging going on in this thread.. Prep has proven in real-world studies to be nearly 100% effective when taken properly in the prevention of HIV..

    - http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/iPrEx_OLE_results_1667_25922.shtml
    - http://attitude.co.uk/prep-100-percent-effective-in-preventing-hiv-us-study-claims/
    - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3226288/Daily-HIV-drug-PREVENTS-virus-developing-100-healthy-gay-men.html

    But, apparently it's less effective when it's HIV contracted by intravenous drug use..

    Condoms, on the other hand, tend to be effective less.. and we all know that people don't wear condoms ALL of the time.. studies (time and time again) have shown that about 50% of gay men admit to not using a condom at least once over the last year for anal sex.. Nobody is perfect.. I imagine not even some of the judgemental people in this post..

    The problem is, as everyone points out, Prep doesn't prevent other STI's, which are mostly curable.. so condoms can still help with other diseases ..

    As someone that was young during the 1980's, I didn't have to watch all my friends die from AIDS, although I was aware of when Rock Hudson died, and Liberace died, the AIDS quilt in Washington, and Elizabeth Taylor fundraising activities and the thousands of pictures and stories of people wasting away from AIDS-related diseases.. When I started working, I also had a colleague die at work from AIDS.. so I understand a bit about it, and I feel the pain that this disease has caused to our community and the lost talented souls that could have contributed so much to this world.. and it really annoys me when people focus on shaming someone's behaviours rather than focus on what's important - preventing HIV infection - which prep is proven -time and time again - to do... a bit less slut shaming please, and a bit more focus on outcomes and acceptance...



    + best post!
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    Dec 19, 2015 8:29 PM GMT
    AlphaMale69 saidPreP can never be blamed. The guys had a choice to have sex. So live with it. Hate it when ppl look 4 something to blame


    It was a prevention statement. PrEP has been available in the Us since 2012, but not even now in Australia. He's pressing for PrEP in Australia for others so they don't become infected.

    Being an HIV activist doesn't stop or begin with being positive.