Protein After Workout

  • neon4u

    Posts: 1152

    Feb 04, 2009 6:51 PM GMT
    Hi Guys,

    After my workout, I'm so hungry. I need some input regarding the intake of protein after workouts.

    Generally, before my workouts I eat some carbs and a little protein. If I do cardio after weight training, I'll eat a power bar beforehand. In both instances, after the workout I immediately eat a piece of fruit. Now, when I get home I'm starving. Here's my question. I want to drink a protein drink to get about 45 grams of protein. But being so hungry I'll eat like the whites of 3 hard boil eggs and one whole egg. Then a chicken breast; maybe some bread or cottage cheese and more fruit.

    Is it better to forgo the meal for the protein shake? I can't do both because I'll get too full and don't like the bloated feeling. Or is it better to eat the meal (which provides a substantial amount of protein) and then drink the protein drink later in the day?

    The reason I'm asking is that I'm thinking the protein drink is more quickly utilized by the body than the meal which is better for muscle growth. Or does it not really matter since I'm getting the same amount of protein regardless when I eat it?
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Feb 04, 2009 7:20 PM GMT
    It's always better to get your protein from natural sources
    After a workout you want to take in as much protein as you can
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    Feb 04, 2009 7:24 PM GMT
    My personal trainer told me to ingest protein within an hour after working out. He said a liquid form would be better because it removes the need for the body to do all that digesting to absorb it.
  • UncleverName

    Posts: 741

    Feb 04, 2009 8:46 PM GMT
    Without actually knowing for sure (so take this with a big grain of salt), I think it's good to eat protein right after a workout.

    Someone else on here told me that's not true, but I found a paper that looked official that said that it was true.

    I think it's best to get whatever you can from natural sources, so I would suggest that if you're going to eat your food, eat it immediately after the workout. if you can't eat it immediately (meaning you have to cook the chicken first), then consume the protein shake instead.
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    Feb 04, 2009 8:59 PM GMT
    Liquid Protein is really ideal for post-workout feeding, especially Whey protein. Meat based protein can take up to 2 hours to digest enough to begin providing significant levels of protein, so you'll mist almost all of the "magic window" you have after a workout (the closer to "under 30 minutes" after you finish, the better).

    Not sure about eggs.

    Whey protein is processed within a few minutes and starts getting into the system almost immediately after that.

    It's a good idea to follow that whey protein up with real food at about the hour mark after your workout as the whey will have been quickly absorbed and you want something in there to keep everything working and supplying you with slower release protein and carbs
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    Feb 04, 2009 9:24 PM GMT
    You're "so hungry" because you failed to eat properly pre-workout and your blood sugar is almost certainly tanking. Intense hunger often is resultant of hypoglycemia. If your hands are getting shaky, or you have a headache, you're definitely tanking.

    EAT.

    Protein isn't what you need, and almost certainly is not what's making you "so hungry." Poor nutrition, specifically, a lack of carbs and fats, is almost certainly what's causing your deep hunger response.

    Pre-workout, eat 50 to 100 grams of carbs, in about a 50/50 ratio of simple and complex, along with about 40 to 60 grams of protein. Post workout get the carbs up to 100 grams, or even 150 grams.

    Your symptoms are because your body is screaming EAT.

    A lousy power bar is not enough.

    Here's a screen shot of one day's worth of nutrition on a day when I was about 5% fat, and about 3 weeks from The Europa Super Show. On this particular day, I kept loading simple sugar because I was so active my blood sugar kept tanking.

    food_20070729.jpg

    The sure fire way to tell is with a blood glucose meter, which you can get anywhere. If your blood sugar drops below about 85, you simply aren't eating enough.

    The reason you are so thin is that you aren't eating. Let your body guide you. You didn't mention anything but a power bar, and fruit, for carbs, for your nutrition. That's just terrible. You need way more carbs.

    Carbs, and the insulin response they provoke, will cause any protein to be shuttled into your cells more effectively. You have to have carbs AND fats.

    You failed to tell us the details of your workout so we could give you a more qualified answer, but, I assure you, you simply aren't eating properly.

    Good luck!
  • neon4u

    Posts: 1152

    Feb 04, 2009 9:40 PM GMT
    Thanks guys...

    GQjock>> I do get most of my protein from natural sources. But I generally eat a protein bar or shake after workouts.

    agerry >> I was kinda of thinking what you said. Darn.

    chuckystud>> Yeah, I don't want a weight-lifters physique. Won't eating all that which you suggested like really make me full prior to workout? I don't really have problems with my glucose levels. I know the sensation since if I don't eat the powerbar before cardio, I feel a loss of energy and don't perform at my peek. I feel as though my energy level is fine during my workouts. So would you say my frame is lean or just too "thin" in your opinion?
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    Feb 04, 2009 9:51 PM GMT
    Everything I've ever read or been told when I asked says that you need protein no more than 30 minutes post-workout.

    I mix 50g of Optimum Nutrition gold standard whey with 25-50g of Now foods carbo gain (this is a complex carbohydrate which helps to get the protein into your blood stream quickly).

    This gets the protein to your muscles when they need it most, post workout and in recovery mode.

    Make sure you're getting good carbs/protein before your workout as well, as you need fuel to get you through your workout.
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    Feb 05, 2009 12:51 AM GMT
    i do the protein and fruit before and eat big time immediately after the workout. Eating immediately after a workout is the important part it makes a huge difference in recovery.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Feb 05, 2009 1:17 AM GMT
    Perfect timing, today on ABCNews.com, they have a feature on 10 Exercise myths, and this is what they say:

    Fact or Myth? Eating Protein After a Workout Will Build Muscle

    Answer: Myth

    "That's definitely a myth," said Elisabetta Politi, a nutrition director at the Duke University Diet & Fitness Center. "What you need after a workout are carbohydrates."

    When you work out, your body uses the glycogen stored in your muscles and liver. Glycogen is made from carbohydrates like glucose.

    The exhaustion you feel after a workout, Politi said, is because of a lack of glycogen.

    "The best way to be reenergized is to eat carbohydrates," she said.

    Protein is helpful in toning existing muscle. However, Politi notes, the average American eats twice the necessary amount of protein already.

    "If [you're] eating an average diet, [you're] probably getting plenty of protein," she said.
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    Feb 05, 2009 3:28 AM GMT
    EricLA saidPerfect timing, today on ABCNews.com, they have a feature on 10 Exercise myths, and this is what they say:

    Fact or Myth? Eating Protein After a Workout Will Build Muscle

    Answer: Myth

    "That's definitely a myth," said Elisabetta Politi, a nutrition director at the Duke University Diet & Fitness Center. "What you need after a workout are carbohydrates."

    When you work out, your body uses the glycogen stored in your muscles and liver. Glycogen is made from carbohydrates like glucose.

    The exhaustion you feel after a workout, Politi said, is because of a lack of glycogen.

    "The best way to be reenergized is to eat carbohydrates," she said.

    Protein is helpful in toning existing muscle. However, Politi notes, the average American eats twice the necessary amount of protein already.

    "If [you're] eating an average diet, [you're] probably getting plenty of protein," she said.
    '


    This is absolutely ridiculous. There are dozens of clinical studies that show protein synthesis (muscle building) is substantially increased when

    1.) A pre-workout protein shake is consumed
    2.) A post workout protein and carb mix is consumed.

    Carbs before the workout can stifle the bodies fat burning processes. A post workout shake should be consumed as close to immediately after the workout as possible. Then within one to two hours afterward a meal with protein and complex carbs should be consumed. All of these will cause a significant increase in protein synthesis. The post workout muscle remodeling process continues for 36 to 48 after a workout during which time protein meals will definitely increase protein synthesis. If the body does get enough carbs afterward to refuel glycogen stores it will metabolize fat stores to feed recovering muscles. Glycogen replenishment is way over-rated. You need glycogen and carb replacement if you are doing endurance training, otherwise with a reasonably healthy diet the body has it covered.
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    Feb 05, 2009 3:29 AM GMT
    EAT BEFORE, EAT AFTER. MAKE A TOTAL PIG OF YOURSELF.
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    Feb 05, 2009 3:49 AM GMT
    According to the Journal of Sports Science, immediately following a moderate to high intensity workout program, a 170 lb male should consume 77-94 grams of carbohydrates (within an hour post-workout), research is mixed whether protein immediately post-exercise has any real beneficial effects beyond what carbohydrates already do. The only instance in which protein intake immediately post-exercise has shown benefits if for athletes that are performing high intensity back-to-back events. The journal also recommends an additional total of 544-935 grams of carbs throughout the rest of the day, along with 116-138 grams of protein, and 90-95 grams of fat. Again this is for a moderate to high intensity program with the goal of building muscle/performance and these are figured for your weight (i looked and your profile said 170, so it may be lower or higher based on your current weight)

    And FYI, "clinical research" (esp. those done by companies selling protein drinks) and legitimate research are two very different things. I tend to go with what the scientific ones say, but that is my beef haha
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    Feb 05, 2009 4:15 AM GMT
    zach206243 saidAccording to the Journal of Sports Science, immediately following a moderate to high intensity workout program, a 170 lb male should consume 77-94 grams of carbohydrates (within an hour post-workout), research is mixed whether protein immediately post-exercise has any real beneficial effects beyond what carbohydrates already do. The only instance in which protein intake immediately post-exercise has shown benefits if for athletes that are performing high intensity back-to-back events. The journal also recommends an additional total of 544-935 grams of carbs throughout the rest of the day, along with 116-138 grams of protein, and 90-95 grams of fat. Again this is for a moderate to high intensity program with the goal of building muscle/performance and these are figured for your weight (i looked and your profile said 170, so it may be lower or higher based on your current weight)

    And FYI, "clinical research" (esp. those done by companies selling protein drinks) and legitimate research are two very different things. I tend to go with what the scientific ones say, but that is my beef haha


    First off excuse my phrase clinical research, I meant controlled research as in placebo controlled research.

    Perhaps PUBMED would be "legitimate" and scientific enough for you. There are litterally dozens of studies in support of my point. I've sited several and included the abstracts on some.


    1: Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2004 Jun;14(3):255-71.Links
    Effect of an amino acid, protein, and carbohydrate mixture on net muscle protein balance after resistance exercise.
    Borsheim E, Aarsland A, Wolfe RR.

    Metabolism Unit in the Department of Surgery at the Shriners Hospitals for Children/Galveston, University of Texas Medical Branch, 77550, USA.

    This study tests the hypotheses that (a) a mixture of whey protein, amino acids (AA), and carbohydrates (CHO) stimulates net muscle protein synthesis to a greater extent than isoenergetic CHO alone after resistance exercise; and (b) that the stimulatory effect of a protein, AA, and CHO mixture will last beyond the 1st hour after intake. Eight subjects participated in 2 trials. In one (PAAC), they ingested 77.4 g CHO, 17.5 g whey protein, and 4.9 g AA 1 hr after resistance exercise. In the other (CON), 100 g CHO was ingested instead. They received a primed constant infusion of L-[2H5]-phenylalanine, and samples from femoral artery and vein, and biopsies from vastus lateralis were obtained. The area under the curve for net uptake of phenylalanine into muscle above pre-drink value was 128 42 mg x leg(- 1) (PAAC) versus 32 10 mg x leg (-1) (CON) for the 3 hr after the drink (p =.04). The net protein balance response to the mixture consisted of two components, one rapid immediate response, and a smaller delayed response about 90 min after drink, whereas in CON only a small delayed response was seen. We conclude that after resistance exercise, a mixture of whey protein, AA, and CHO stimulated muscle protein synthesis to a greater extent than isoenergetic CHO alone. Further, compared to previously reported findings, the addition of protein to an AA+ CHO mixture seems to extend the anabolic effect.

    PMID: 15256687 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

    Effects of whey isolate, creatine, and resistance training on muscle hypertrophy.

    Cribb PJ, Williams AD, Stathis CG, Carey MF, Hayes A.

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 Feb;39(2):298-307.

    PMID: 17277594 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



    The effect of whey isolate and resistance training on strength, body composition, and plasma glutamine.

    Cribb PJ, Williams AD, Carey MF, Hayes A.

    Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Oct;16(5):494-509.

    PMID: 17240782 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


    The effects of protein and amino acid supplementation on performance and training adaptations during ten weeks of resistance training.

    Kerksick CM, Rasmussen CJ, Lancaster SL, Magu B, Smith P, Melton C, Greenwood M, Almada AL, Earnest CP, Kreider RB.

    J Strength Cond Res. 2006 Aug;20(3):643-53.

    PMID: 16937979 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



    Stimulation of net muscle protein synthesis by whey protein ingestion before and after exercise.

    Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Aarsland AA, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.

    Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jan;292(1):E71-6. Epub 2006 Aug 8.

    PMID: 16896166 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after resistance exercise.

    Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.

    PMID: 15570142 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


    Effect of an amino acid, protein, and carbohydrate mixture on net muscle protein balance after resistance exercise.

    Borsheim E, Aarsland A, Wolfe RR.

    Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2004 Jun;14(3):255-71.

    PMID: 15256687 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



    The effect of whey protein supplementation with and without creatine monohydrate combined with resistance training on lean tissue mass and muscle strength.

    Burke DG, Chilibeck PD, Davidson KS, Candow DG, Farthing J, Smith-Palmer T.

    Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2001 Sep;11(3):349-64.

    PMID: 11591884 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



    Differential stimulation of myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic protein synthesis with protein ingestion at rest and after resistance exercise.

    Moore DR, Tang JE, Burd NA, Rerecich T, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM.

    J Physiol. 2009 Jan 5. [Epub ahead of print]

    PMID: 19124543 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

    Minimal whey protein with carbohydrate stimulates muscle protein synthesis following resistance exercise in trained young men.

    Tang JE, Manolakos JJ, Kujbida GW, Lysecki PJ, Moore DR, Phillips SM.

    Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2007 Dec;32(6):1132-8.

    PMID: 18059587 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    : Amino Acids. 2008 Jul 27.
    Acute and long-term effects of resistance exercise with or without protein ingestion on muscle hypertrophy and gene expression.
    Hulmi JJ, Kovanen V, Selänne H, Kraemer WJ, Häkkinen K, Mero AA.

    Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyväskylä, P.O. Box 35, 40014, Jyväskylä, Finland, juha.hulmi@sport.jyu.fi.

    The effects of timed ingestion of high-quality protein before and after resistance exercise are not well known. In this study, young men were randomized to protein (n = 11), placebo (n = 10) and control (n = 10) groups. Muscle cross-sectional area by MRI and muscle forces were analyzed before and after 21 weeks of either heavy resistance training (RT) or control period. Muscle biopsies were taken before, and 1 and 48 h after 5 x 10 repetition leg press exercise (RE) as well as 21 weeks after RT. Protein (15 g of whey both before and after exercise) or non-energetic placebo were provided to subjects in the context of both single RE bout (acute responses) as well as each RE workout twice a week throughout the 21-week-RT. Protein intake increased (P wk) we observed a tendency (P = 0.11) for greater gains in whole body lean mass and whole as greater muscle fiber hypertrophy with consumption of milk. While strength gains were not different between the soy and milk-supplemented groups we would argue that the true significance of a greater increase in lean mass that we observed with milk consumption may be more important in groups of persons with lower initial lean mass and strength such as the elderly.

    PMID: 15798080 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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    Feb 05, 2009 4:18 AM GMT
    Logan and I front load with 100 grams of carbs, and 40 grams of protein.

    Logan and I end load with 150 grams of carbs and 60 grams of protein.

    I firmly believe that, post workout, carbs are the more important, for the reasons stated earlier and the research seems to support that, as well.

    In any event, if you're wanting to gain strength, size, and not aimlessly waste time working out in the gym to stay the same, calories are key.

    A deep hunger response is almost always indicative of low blood sugar.

    The most anabolic hormone of all is insulin, and, if you learn how to manipulate it, you can makes great gains.

    Logan (flex89) is a type 1 diabetic, and he has a bag of lemons. We made lemonade. Logan gained 74 pounds of lean muscle in five months, and lowered his body fat by 2%, in the process, by listening to what I had to stay.

    I easily maintain 210 to 215 pounds (Save your insults. I do it without trying.) and can carry 230 pounds if I get very disciplined in my eating. I weighed 175 in high school. I've had folks in the NPC say I could carry 250, but, I sure don't have the money to stock the refrigerator in that fashion.

    Bottom line, unless you like going in circles with your training: Eat. You move your set point up when you fuel the furnace, and can exercise with higher intensity.

    I know football players on 7500 calories a day diets that aren't fat. You can't expect results if you have to have the building blocks.
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    Feb 05, 2009 4:22 AM GMT
    chuckystud saidLogan and I front load with 100 grams of carbs, and 40 grams of protein.

    Logan and I end load with 150 grams of carbs and 60 grams of protein.

    I firmly believe that, post workout, carbs are the more important, for the reasons stated earlier and the research seems to support that, as well.

    In any event, if you're wanting to gain strength, size, and not aimlessly waste time working out in the gym to stay the same, calories are key.

    A deep hunger response is almost always indicative of low blood sugar.


    Exactly, eating something containing at least some protein every 3 to 3 1/2 hours supports muscle growth, promotes stable insulin levels and prevents ravenous hunger.
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    Feb 05, 2009 4:31 AM GMT
    http://www.metroplexfitness.net/food_item_display.php?NDB_No=09003

    I have the USDA SR21 database online. The link above is for apple with skin. Note that a typical large apple is around 212 grams. Placing 212 into the Javascript calories shows us that an apple (even a large one) only provides about 29 grams of carbs, of which 10 are sugars (sugar is what you want immediately post workout). Clearly, it's inadequate.

    Now, if you're 170 pounds with 150# of muscle (if you're less than around 25), you'll need 3060 calories just to break even daily. Add another 600 for resistance training and another 500 for cardio, and you're at 4160. Add another 600 for growth, and you're at 4760. Clearly, nutrition / calories are crucial for good sports science. (I calculated this at 20 calories, but some would calculate it at 15.)

    A piece of fruit is woefully inadequate of calories.

    If you take the time to research this yourself, you'll be able to think more clearly on it.

    FYI, YngHungSFSD, is not really correct about protein promoting normalized blood sugar / increased insulin sensitivity / insulin levels. Blood glucose levels are governed by exercise, body fat levels, type of food consumed, and the glycemic index of those foods, liver glycogen stores, carb depletion state, and the like. Protein really does NOT relate to insulin levels in a big way. Stable blood sugar levels, and exercise make HUGE differences in insulin tolerance / sensitivity. Logan is type 1 diabetic, and we have his HBA1C at 6, which is incredibly good.

    Fat people end up type 2 diabetic (not an auto-immune disease like type 1), because they eat high gylcemic index foods, don't exercise, and have high body fat. Type 2 diabetes is nearly 100% preventable. It requires a digit control program and discipline on the part of the fat person. I.e. self-discipline.

    Just a few nights ago, Logan and I were at Lifetime Fitness in Flower Mound Texas. I struck up a conversation with a guy who was 300 pounds, but, had lost 100 pounds. He was STILL incredibly obese, but, through exercise, and diet, he was able to completely get rid of his type 2 diabetes. We love telling folks stories of fat people who take control of their lives, and commit to change.

    If you want to save a life, you need to get after a fat person. Nearly 8 MILLION fat people die needlessly every year, prematurely.

    If you're under-nourished, your body will burn protein as fuel (convert it to glucose), instead of effecting muscle repair.
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    Feb 05, 2009 4:35 AM GMT
    Here is a really awesome site that will tell you the complete nutritional profile right down to the amino acids in just about anything. In my opinion it is by far the most useful nutrition site on the net.

    http://www.nutritiondata.com/


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 05, 2009 4:47 AM GMT
    I'm telling you...:-) carbs....make you sexy....

    Thank you for taking the time to rediscover the research I've read a long time ago (not just one article).
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    Feb 05, 2009 4:47 AM GMT


    And FYI, "clinical research" (esp. those done by companies selling protein drinks) and legitimate research are two very different things. I tend to go with what the scientific ones say, but that is my beef haha

    First off excuse my phrase clinical research, I meant controlled research as in placebo controlled research.

    Perhaps PUBMED would be "legitimate" and scientific enough for you. There are litterally dozens of studies in support of my point. I've sited several and included the abstracts on some.





    1: Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2004 Jun;14(3):255-71.Links
    Effect of an amino acid, protein, and carbohydrate mixture on net muscle protein balance after resistance exercise.
    Borsheim E, Aarsland A, Wolfe RR.

    Metabolism Unit in the Department of Surgery at the Shriners Hospitals for Children/Galveston, University of Texas Medical Branch, 77550, USA.

    This study tests the hypotheses that (a) a mixture of whey protein, amino acids (AA), and carbohydrates (CHO) stimulates net muscle protein synthesis to a greater extent than isoenergetic CHO alone after resistance exercise; and (b) that the stimulatory effect of a protein, AA, and CHO mixture will last beyond the 1st hour after intake. Eight subjects participated in 2 trials. In one (PAAC), they ingested 77.4 g CHO, 17.5 g whey protein, and 4.9 g AA 1 hr after resistance exercise. In the other (CON), 100 g CHO was ingested instead. They received a primed constant infusion of L-[2H5]-phenylalanine, and samples from femoral artery and vein, and biopsies from vastus lateralis were obtained. The area under the curve for net uptake of phenylalanine into muscle above pre-drink value was 128 42 mg x leg(- 1) (PAAC) versus 32 10 mg x leg (-1) (CON) for the 3 hr after the drink (p =.04). The net protein balance response to the mixture consisted of two components, one rapid immediate response, and a smaller delayed response about 90 min after drink, whereas in CON only a small delayed response was seen. We conclude that after resistance exercise, a mixture of whey protein, AA, and CHO stimulated muscle protein synthesis to a greater extent than isoenergetic CHO alone. Further, compared to previously reported findings, the addition of protein to an AA+ CHO mixture seems to extend the anabolic effect.

    PMID: 15256687 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

    Effects of whey isolate, creatine, and resistance training on muscle hypertrophy.

    Cribb PJ, Williams AD, Stathis CG, Carey MF, Hayes A.

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 Feb;39(2):298-307.

    PMID: 17277594 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



    The effect of whey isolate and resistance training on strength, body composition, and plasma glutamine.

    Cribb PJ, Williams AD, Carey MF, Hayes A.

    Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Oct;16(5):494-509.

    PMID: 17240782 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


    The effects of protein and amino acid supplementation on performance and training adaptations during ten weeks of resistance training.

    Kerksick CM, Rasmussen CJ, Lancaster SL, Magu B, Smith P, Melton C, Greenwood M, Almada AL, Earnest CP, Kreider RB.

    J Strength Cond Res. 2006 Aug;20(3):643-53.

    PMID: 16937979 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



    Stimulation of net muscle protein synthesis by whey protein ingestion before and after exercise.

    Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Aarsland AA, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.

    Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jan;292(1):E71-6. Epub 2006 Aug 8.

    PMID: 16896166 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after resistance exercise.

    Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.

    PMID: 15570142 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


    Effect of an amino acid, protein, and carbohydrate mixture on net muscle protein balance after resistance exercise.

    Borsheim E, Aarsland A, Wolfe RR.

    Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2004 Jun;14(3):255-71.

    PMID: 15256687 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



    The effect of whey protein supplementation with and without creatine monohydrate combined with resistance training on lean tissue mass and muscle strength.

    Burke DG, Chilibeck PD, Davidson KS, Candow DG, Farthing J, Smith-Palmer T.

    Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2001 Sep;11(3):349-64.

    PMID: 11591884 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



    Differential stimulation of myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic protein synthesis with protein ingestion at rest and after resistance exercise.

    Moore DR, Tang JE, Burd NA, Rerecich T, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM.

    J Physiol. 2009 Jan 5. [Epub ahead of print]

    PMID: 19124543 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

    Minimal whey protein with carbohydrate stimulates muscle protein synthesis following resistance exercise in trained young men.

    Tang JE, Manolakos JJ, Kujbida GW, Lysecki PJ, Moore DR, Phillips SM.

    Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2007 Dec;32(6):1132-8.

    PMID: 18059587 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    : Amino Acids. 2008 Jul 27.
    Acute and long-term effects of resistance exercise with or without protein ingestion on muscle hypertrophy and gene expression.
    Hulmi JJ, Kovanen V, Selänne H, Kraemer WJ, Häkkinen K, Mero AA.

    Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyväskylä, P.O. Box 35, 40014, Jyväskylä, Finland, juha.hulmi@sport.jyu.fi.

    The effects of timed ingestion of high-quality protein before and after resistance exercise are not well known. In this study, young men were randomized to protein (n = 11), placebo (n = 10) and control (n = 10) groups. Muscle cross-sectional area by MRI and muscle forces were analyzed before and after 21 weeks of either heavy resistance training (RT) or control period. Muscle biopsies were taken before, and 1 and 48 h after 5 x 10 repetition leg press exercise (RE) as well as 21 weeks after RT. Protein (15 g of whey both before and after exercise) or non-energetic placebo were provided to subjects in the context of both single RE bout (acute responses) as well as each RE workout twice a week throughout the 21-week-RT. Protein intake increased (P wk) we observed a tendency (P = 0.11) for greater gains in whole body lean mass and whole as greater muscle fiber hypertrophy with consumption of milk. While strength gains were not different between the soy and milk-supplemented groups we would argue that the true significance of a greater increase in lean mass that we observed with milk consumption may be more important in groups of persons with lower initial lean mass and strength such as the elderly.

    PMID: 15798080 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    Thanks for the clarification on the clinical studies comment, and actually I use PUBMED quite a bit, so the information is noted and appreciated. Like I stated in my previous comment, there is a good amount of research that is mixed on the benefits, so I apologize if you felt I was completely discrediting what you had stated (especially since one could probably guess that a large majority of people on here aren't hanging out on PUBMED). Based on the large majority of research that I have read on the subject carbohydrate research has consistently shown to have the most consistent and significant effects post-exercise, which is why I tend to focus on that aspect. This being said, appropriate intake of proteins and fats ingested throughout the day are also vital for muscle synthesis, which is why I included that information in my post.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 05, 2009 4:49 AM GMT
    Meat and potatoes makes Chucky a strong farm boy.

    I have to giggle. A guy asks for how to promote "muscle growth" and then rejects what most folks are telling him.

    Study up on this on your own.

    Good luck!
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    Feb 05, 2009 4:54 AM GMT
    chuckystud saidhttp://www.metroplexfitness.net/food_item_display.php?NDB_No=09003


    FYI, YngHungSFSD, is not really correct about protein promoting normalized blood sugar / increased insulin sensitivity / insulin levels. Blood glucose levels are governed by exercise, body fat levels, type of food consumed, and the glycemic index of those foods, liver glycogen stores, carb depletion state, and the like. Protein really does NOT relate to insulin levels in a big way. Stable blood sugar levels, and exercise make HUGE differences in insulin tolerance / sensitivity. Logan is type 1 diabetic, and we have his HBA1C at 6, which is incredibly good.

    .


    I should have clarified my point further. Protein slows the digestion of the carbs consumed in the meal helping to moderate the insulin peaks and valleys, rather then the protein having a significant effect on the insulin.
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    Feb 05, 2009 4:54 AM GMT
    YngHungSFSD saidHere is a really awesome site that will tell you the complete nutritional profile right down to the amino acids in just about anything. In my opinion it is by far the most useful nutrition site on the net.

    http://www.nutritiondata.com/


    I love that site, except... What I hate about that site is how they post glycemic load data instead of glycemic index. icon_evil.gif

    And their inflammatory rating is a load of crap.
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    Feb 05, 2009 5:43 AM GMT
    neon4u saidHi Guys,

    After my workout, I'm so hungry. I need some input regarding the intake of protein after workouts.

    Generally, before my workouts I eat some carbs and a little protein. If I do cardio after weight training, I'll eat a power bar beforehand. In both instances, after the workout I immediately eat a piece of fruit. Now, when I get home I'm starving. Here's my question. I want to drink a protein drink to get about 45 grams of protein. But being so hungry I'll eat like the whites of 3 hard boil eggs and one whole egg. Then a chicken breast; maybe some bread or cottage cheese and more fruit.

    Is it better to forgo the meal for the protein shake? I can't do both because I'll get too full and don't like the bloated feeling. Or is it better to eat the meal (which provides a substantial amount of protein) and then drink the protein drink later in the day?

    The reason I'm asking is that I'm thinking the protein drink is more quickly utilized by the body than the meal which is better for muscle growth. Or does it not really matter since I'm getting the same amount of protein regardless when I eat it?


    chuckystud saidYou're "so hungry" because you failed to eat properly pre-workout and your blood sugar is almost certainly tanking. Intense hunger often is resultant of hypoglycemia. If your hands are getting shaky, or you have a headache, you're definitely tanking.

    EAT.

    Protein isn't what you need, and almost certainly is not what's making you "so hungry." Poor nutrition, specifically, a lack of carbs and fats, is almost certainly what's causing your deep hunger response.

    Pre-workout, eat 50 to 100 grams of carbs, in about a 50/50 ratio of simple and complex, along with about 40 to 60 grams of protein. Post workout get the carbs up to 100 grams, or even 150 grams.

    Your symptoms are because your body is screaming EAT.

    A lousy power bar is not enough.

    Here's a screen shot of one day's worth of nutrition on a day when I was about 5% fat, and about 3 weeks from The Europa Super Show. On this particular day, I kept loading simple sugar because I was so active my blood sugar kept tanking.

    food_20070729.jpg

    The sure fire way to tell is with a blood glucose meter, which you can get anywhere. If your blood sugar drops below about 85, you simply aren't eating enough.

    The reason you are so thin is that you aren't eating. Let your body guide you. You didn't mention anything but a power bar, and fruit, for carbs, for your nutrition. That's just terrible. You need way more carbs.

    Carbs, and the insulin response they provoke, will cause any protein to be shuttled into your cells more effectively. You have to have carbs AND fats.

    You failed to tell us the details of your workout so we could give you a more qualified answer, but, I assure you, you simply aren't eating properly.

    Good luck!


    neon4u saidThanks guys...

    GQjock>> I do get most of my protein from natural sources. But I generally eat a protein bar or shake after workouts.

    agerry >> I was kinda of thinking what you said. Darn.

    chuckystud>> Yeah, I don't want a weight-lifters physique. Won't eating all that which you suggested like really make me full prior to workout? I don't really have problems with my glucose levels. I know the sensation since if I don't eat the powerbar before cardio, I feel a loss of energy and don't perform at my peek. I feel as though my energy level is fine during my workouts. So would you say my frame is lean or just too "thin" in your opinion?


    chuckystud saidMeat and potatoes makes Chucky a strong farm boy.

    I have to giggle. A guy asks for how to promote "muscle growth" and then rejects what most folks are telling him.

    Study up on this on your own.

    Good luck!


    I'm giggling too, but for different reasons.

    Actually, I'm not giggling. I am, however, a little amazed, and I feel the need to jump in here and defend neon4u. I'm not sure I need to say much beyond the quotations I've posted above, which include all of neon4u's posts in this thread. I don't see where neon4u "reject[ed] what most folks are telling him."

    I will add a couple of more things: neon4u doesn't look "so thin" to me. He's 5'11", 170, with a 31-inch waist. Anyone who looks at his profile photos and decides that he's "so thin" in a pejorative sense . . . well, something's wrong somewhere and I don't think it's with neon4u.

    Is his body exceptionally muscular? No. But it's nice. He's not especially thin (though he's also certainly not remotely fat) and he never said that he was trying to put on a great deal of muscle. Yes, he did say he was looking for "muscle growth," but he didn't say that he wished to be huge or even very big.

    I also feel compelled to mention that when people read chuckystud's advice about nutrition, it may be helpful to remember that it is based to some degree on his personal experience, which includes taking testosterone supplements for approximately 30 years. (I hope I didn't misstate that. If I did, I'm sure I'll be corrected.) I don't think I'm saying anything he hasn't said himself on this site.

    I mention this because the diet that helps chuckystud to get the results he desires may not work in the same way for those who are not taking testosterone supplements.
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    Feb 05, 2009 6:00 AM GMT
    Having looked at your pics in reflecting on the previous poster's remarks, I would agree you have a great foundation and are lean not thin. For your benefit if I can point out one thing. It looks like you train your upper body much more then the lower body. If this is the case, balance that out. If you want to grow biceps, do squats. The point being that leg work brings about the greatest releases in growth hormone and testosterone. Guys that neglect leg work hinder the muscular development of the whole body. If you are already doing equal upper and lower body work then just ignore this. Otherwise, consider it, just a little food for thought.