One of the Catholic Church's Worst Mislabeling and Misleading of All Christians and Tourists

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    Dec 29, 2015 7:59 PM GMT
    When I was a boy, when I saw a great picture of the Pietà by Michelangelo I wondered why the Catholic Church had Mary looking younger than Jesus. The mystery is now solved.

    The Pieta is not Jesus on the lap of his mother,
    it is Caesar on the lap of his third wife, Calpurnia.
    That is why “Mary” looks to be too young to be Jesus’ mother.

    Michelangelo-pieta-inscription-300x300.p
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    Dec 29, 2015 8:06 PM GMT
    This is how I found out:



    I guess the segment is at 15 to 18 minutes.

    Gawd, I'm not even in 20 minutes of this video. What next?!
  • everhorn

    Posts: 44

    Dec 30, 2015 7:40 PM GMT
    That conclusion seems strange to me. The Gospels do not say that the body of Jesus was placed in the lap of his mother; apparently, that is the concept of Michelangelo which gives him the image that he wants to create. It was not the Catholic Church which “had Mary looking younger than Jesus;” rather, it was the idea of the sculptor or, perhaps, the faces of the models he used. Perhaps Calpurnia held the body of Caesar, but did Michelangelo know that? Perhaps many mothers held the bodies of dead sons, but this artist was interested in portraying Jesus and Mary for the tomb of the Cardinal who commissioned it. Michelangelo supposedly thought that chaste, pure women kept their beauty longer than others – perhaps that is why the sculptor makes Mary looks so young. I doubt that the artist had any thought of Calpurnia and Caesar.

    The man in the video says that this scene is “not in the Gospel. You’ll find it on the Via Crucis, the Way of the Cross.” But that “pieta” scene is not found in the Way of the Cross. There is one “station” where Jesus, carrying his cross, meets his mother but he is not in her lap. The final stations have Jesus taken down from the cross and laid in the tomb with no image of Jesus on the lap of his mother.

    The voice in the video says “to the linguist” the Pieta is Caesar in Calpurnia’s lap. Those who come to any art piece may find any number of meanings beyond the artist’s original concept. So, too, one might find a suggestion of Calpurnia and Caesar in the Pieta, but it is difficult to say that such a concept was in the mind of Michelangelo.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Dec 30, 2015 8:14 PM GMT
    Before the fourth century, there was not general agreement over which texts should be included in the Bible. Many texts were left out, perhaps the best known being the gospel of Thomas. There has never been unanimous agreement over what should be included.
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    Dec 30, 2015 8:30 PM GMT
    I believe the concept of Mary's purity & virginity is what kept her young looking in Church art. That concept exists through previous Medieval & Renaissance art. So that Michalelangelo would have been drawing upon those traditions.

    And Caesar was not young himself, actually well into middle-age by the standards of the time when he was assasinated, not as young as this statue portrays, some might have said old, and known to be virtually bald. Calpurnia was younger, but perhaps not this much in appearance.
  • FRE0

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    Dec 31, 2015 12:42 AM GMT
    Art_Deco saidI believe the concept of Mary's purity & virginity is what kept her young looking in Church art. That concept exists through previous Medieval & Renaissance art. So that Michalelangelo would have been drawing upon those traditions.

    And Caesar was not young himself, actually well into middle-age by the standards of the time when he was assasinated, not as young as this statue portrays, some might have said old, and known to be virtually bald. Calpurnia was younger, but perhaps not this much in appearance.


    The idea that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus is not Biblical. The following implies that she had more children:

    [url]https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+2%3A7-14&version=KJV[/url]

    From the above:

    "Luke 2:7-14King James Version (KJV)

    7 "And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn."

    One can find several passages in the NT which cast doubt upon the idea that Mary remained a virgin father the birth of Jesus. The source of the idea that she remained a virgin for life is unclear.
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    Dec 31, 2015 1:56 AM GMT
    everhorn saidThat conclusion seems strange to me. The Gospels do not say that the body of Jesus was placed in the lap of his mother; apparently, that is the concept of Michelangelo which gives him the image that he wants to create. It was not the Catholic Church which “had Mary looking younger than Jesus;” rather, it was the idea of the sculptor or, perhaps, the faces of the models he used. Perhaps Calpurnia held the body of Caesar, but did Michelangelo know that? Perhaps many mothers held the bodies of dead sons, but this artist was interested in portraying Jesus and Mary for the tomb of the Cardinal who commissioned it. Michelangelo supposedly thought that chaste, pure women kept their beauty longer than others – perhaps that is why the sculptor makes Mary looks so young. I doubt that the artist had any thought of Calpurnia and Caesar.

    The man in the video says that this scene is “not in the Gospel. You’ll find it on the Via Crucis, the Way of the Cross.” But that “pieta” scene is not found in the Way of the Cross. There is one “station” where Jesus, carrying his cross, meets his mother but he is not in her lap. The final stations have Jesus taken down from the cross and laid in the tomb with no image of Jesus on the lap of his mother.

    The voice in the video says “to the linguist” the Pieta is Caesar in Calpurnia’s lap. Those who come to any art piece may find any number of meanings beyond the artist’s original concept. So, too, one might find a suggestion of Calpurnia and Caesar in the Pieta, but it is difficult to say that such a concept was in the mind of Michelangelo.


    I'm not holding Michelangelo responsible, I'm holding responsible the one who commissioned the work.
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    Dec 31, 2015 2:07 AM GMT
    Carotta, who puts forth this line of reasoning, says at Caesar's funeral, a wax figure was affixed to a cross, a tropaion.

    200px-MarcusAureliusDupondiusReverse.png

    It was not just his armor and robe, but an effigy that turned so all could see how he was pierced.

    Yes, the Pieta is not in the gospels. It is not telling what happened to Jesus.

    Here's something else that is not in the gospels. Longinus pierced the side of Jesus. He later became a saint of the Roman Catholic Church.

    Who is one of the many who pierced Julius Caesar?
    Answer: Longinus.

    pretty distressing, isn't it.
    I give you no question mark, because there's much more evidence in Carotta's line of reasoning.

    I caught one mistake.
    I just looked up his website and emailed him the question I had. If he answers, I'll let you know.
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    Dec 31, 2015 2:09 AM GMT
    StephenOABC saidCarotta, who puts forth this line of reasoning, says at Caesar's funeral, a wax figure was affixed to a cross, a tropaion.

    200px-MarcusAureliusDupondiusReverse.png

    It was not just his armor and robe, but an effigy that turned so all could see how he was pierced.



    crux4.jpg
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    Dec 31, 2015 2:35 AM GMT
    StephenOABC saidCarotta, who puts forth this line of reasoning, says at Caesar's funeral, a wax figure was affixed to a cross, a tropaion.

    200px-MarcusAureliusDupondiusReverse.png

    It was not just his armor and robe, but an effigy that turned so all could see how he was pierced.

    Yes, the Pieta is not in the gospels. It is not telling what happened to Jesus.

    Here's something else that is not in the gospels. Longinus pierced the side of Jesus. He later became a saint of the Roman Catholic Church.

    Who is one of the many who pierced Julius Caesar?
    Answer: Longinus.

    pretty distressing, isn't it.
    I give you no question mark, because there's much more evidence in Carotta's line of reasoning.

    I caught one mistake.
    I just looked up his website and emailed him the question I had. If he answers, I'll let you know.


    I thought I caught a mistake.
    I thought Caesar died in March and Jesus died in April.

    Here's the author's response about March 15 and Nissan 15 being the same day.

    Because
    a) the Romans identified Nisan with March, cf. Fasti Polemii Silvii: Martius […] vocatur apud Hebraeos Nisan […], Degrassi, A. (1963). Inscriptiones Italiae. Roma.p. 266.
    b) the Church Father Tertullian tells us, that Easter originally took place in March: Cf. Tertullian, de jejun.14: pascha celebramus annuo circulo in mense primo. [March was considered the first month of the year, which began originally not in January but in March, as the names for September (= the Seventh month), October (the Eighth month), November (the Ninth month) and December (the Tenth month) prove, which can only be that if beginning to count by March]. Patently was Easter originally no moveable holiday, but a fixed one, taking place in March = Nisan.

    Thank you for the appreciation of the movie, that I will forward to the director, Jan van Friesland, and the composer, Arne Eickenberg.

    Ciao.
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    Dec 31, 2015 4:08 PM GMT
    Everhorn, Art_Deco, and others,

    Remember, Michelangelo is known (notorious is too strong a word) to have put a hidden (God does not exist) message in the Creation of Adam. Google the following all at once: Michelangelo, Creation of Adam, brain, god is in the head.




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    Jan 02, 2016 4:22 PM GMT
    The first two minutes of this video [John Dominic Crossan] helps advance this thread.