Why can't we smile in pictures

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 30, 2015 7:48 AM GMT
    While I think Rafi is a little too critical, because there are black men who do not fit the ultra masculine stereotype I agree with the article overall.
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/12/29/odell_beckham_jr_gay_rumors_show_the_problem_with_black_masculinity.html

    That being said DAMN that's a beautiful man

    480845824-player-odell-beckham-jr-accept
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 30, 2015 7:59 AM GMT
    This is why I love Channing, so silly. One of the best attributes in a guy

    5593eb39fa1d030e0ac6a51f_ctvogue.gif.CRO
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 30, 2015 3:38 PM GMT
    A question and a point:

    Point: Gay people are just as guilty, if not more so, of speculating on whether someone is gay or not than straights are and are usually tickled pink when some celebrity does come out, as if gives them some sort of validation. It's as if, at some gut level, we really believe there is something wrong with us and we take comfort in knowing we aren't alone and it's even better when in our company are celebrities and high profile sports figures.

    If we expect straights not to judge, we gays need to not be so quick to judge either. We are just as guilty as straights.

    Question: Why oh why is every subject matter black vs. white issue? Aren't there other ethnic/racial groups? Why when a black person writes about a situation in their community they have to compare it to the white community and talk about it as if they are an authority?

    The author says, "In my own experience, a lot of my gay white friends are damn near distraught when someone calls them a “faggot.” I’m not good at consoling them since I hear it at least once a month—as a black man, if a white guy and I are going out in the same exact outfit, strangers will read him as “artistic” while I’m just “gay.”"

    He can't find empathy with his own gay brothers because he feels he is called faggot more often? How does he know for sure? Why does he feel his "cancer" is worse than his white friends'? And really it's just his perspective that outfits are perceived differently on black guys as opposed to white guys. It's been my experience that black men, both gay and straight, tend to dress more flashy than their white counterparts and when white men (my perspective which with I have first hand experience) wear something other than black, navy blue, and brown are viewed as light in the loafers by other whites but not by blacks who seem to appreciate a more individualistic sense of fashion style.

    He then goes on to say, "For every Prince wearing heels and ass-less pants while unabashedly pursuing some of the most beautiful women on the planet, there are 10 black fathers telling their sons they can’t take ballet because it’s for “sissies,” or black women passing up black men deemed “too soft” for listening to Beyoncé, or black fans calling a celebrity “suspect” for wearing pants that are too tight. We’ve always had to be a little bit stronger, a little bit tougher, and a little more resilient than our white counterparts, and it has made us hypervigilant against any sign of weakness."

    Does he not think there are white, Asian, and other native peoples whose fathers tell their sons they can't do certain things for fear their sons will appear to be sissys or too soft? So why have blacks had to be anymore hyper vigilant than anyother group? That's only his perspective. For every white, Asian or Latino father that gives his son an Easy-Bake Oven for Christmas there are ten who wouldn't dream of doing so.

    Can we stop the Them-Versus-Us attitudes? We are all gay and have experienced the same prejudices from society based on our sexual orientation, our melanin levels notwithstanding.

    P.S., I can only presume that the video of Odell is more suspect than the video of Channing is because Channing is dancing (goofing) alone while Odell is doing the same thing (dancing/goofing) with another man and shirtless. I'm not saying this is right or fair. I'm just saying it's probably the reason.
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Dec 30, 2015 4:57 PM GMT

    Categorizing is just easier. I really don't see it as a black vs white thing, i think it's almost a telling mentality that you do perceive those comments as such. Someone can talk about the differences between two things, without it being a battle between good and evil or who is right and who is wrong. We categorize all the time, we talk about men in relation to women, tall people in relation to short people, straight people in relation to gay people...it's not an attempt to disregard medium height people, trans people or bisexual people, it's really about the level of nuance that is expected and manageable in a conversation.

    To me, that article reads 100 percent as a "us versus us" article, i am not sure where you are taking any offense.


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    Dec 30, 2015 5:45 PM GMT
    While I don't have time for a full reply, I find it fascinating that the two white posters zeroed in on the notion of black vs white. As a black man that isn't actually how I read the story at all. I read the story as a black man talking about a black issue to a general audience but hoping to catch the attention of black people. I didn't see it as an us vs them. I read it as a, "we have a problem, here is an alternative model that we can use as inspiration to solve that problem. I work for a company and I have worked for its competitor in the past. Every once in a while I will ring up a practice that I believe the competitor does better as a suggestion that we use that practice instead of our own. Its not an us vs them mentality. Its an accepting the differences in the world and using the best ideas you have found to deal with the situation at hand.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 30, 2015 6:30 PM GMT
    You "find it fascinating that two white poster zeroes in on the notion of black vs. white" when the author himself brought it up in his article, ad nauseum.

    "The response to this video is the difference between black masculinity and white masculinity in a nutshell."

    "White men are allowed a greater range of expression before they are automatically considered gay."

    "...if a white guy and I are going out in the same exact outfit, strangers will read him as “artistic” while I’m just “gay.”"

    "We’ve always had to be a little bit stronger, a little bit tougher, and a little more resilient than our white counterparts..."

    I take no great offense. I just used it to ask why? Why when we are all gay (black, white, Asian, Latino, etc.) and have all experienced prejudice and hurt from society at large do we ourselves have this black versus white distinction. Everything he said about the black gay experience could be said of the white gay experience, the Asian gay experience, the Latino gay experience.

    I do take offense with somehow his black experience as a gay man is somehow more of a trial than for other gay men. He doesn't know what others have experienced in their lives anymore than I do, so what I won't do is assume that any other gay group hasn't endured any less than mine has.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 30, 2015 6:37 PM GMT
    GAY!!!!!



    supper GAY!!

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    Dec 30, 2015 7:05 PM GMT
    "I hope Odell Beckham Jr. never comes out. Actually, I hope the New York Giants wide receiver isn’t even gay. I hope he ends up with the flyest chick on the block, and they give joint interviews where she says she enjoys a man who’s fun and lives his life and doesn’t feel the need to scowl 24/7, hunched over like a Neanderthal trying to protect his manhood."

    Even if this was to come to pass it wouldn't be enough for some. There will always be those (straight or gay, black, white, Asian, Latino, etc.) who will assume he's gay. Eddie Murphy, Tom Cruise, John Travolta come to mind - all married and yet suspect. And in their defense, haven't we had numerous examples of gay men married to women? There are many here on RJ - myself included.

    There has to come a time in everyone's life when they have to become unconcerned with societal conventions and be their authentic selves otherwise they will be miserable. This applies to whether or not you want to be a male figure skater, hair dresser, florist, or ballroom dancer who happens to be straight or any other situation where society views it as less than masculine. When people are free to live their lives unafraid we will see an evolution in societal ideas of what's acceptable roles and behaviors for gender and sexual orientations.

    I remember just recently a woman telling me her husband was a stay-at-home dad. I remember when this role shift was relatively new (1970s) people would snigger and question the guys masculinity. Today people barely bat an eye.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 30, 2015 7:08 PM GMT
    Why is undercoverman obsessed with making white men seem like the ultimate overlooked victims of racism? It all adds up to an insidious-seeming agenda.
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    Dec 30, 2015 7:23 PM GMT
    ^Fuck you, you odious turd. I said nothing about racism.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 30, 2015 7:28 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said^Fuck you, you odious turd. I said nothing about racism.

    I'm referring to the culmination of all your posts over many years. I'll never forget your racist commentary on Michelle Obama. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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    Dec 30, 2015 7:31 PM GMT
    ^ Just because I wouldn't piss on you if you burst into flames directly in front of me doesn't make me prejudiced against all people from Minneapolis or Minnesota. Learn the difference, idiot.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 30, 2015 7:37 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said^ Just because I wouldn't piss on you if you burst into flames directly in front of me doesn't make me prejudiced against all people from Minneapolis or Minnesota. Learn the difference, idiot.

    That's a peculiar way to justify your obvious agenda in these threads.
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    Dec 30, 2015 8:54 PM GMT
    badbug said
    Categorizing is just easier. I really don't see it as a black vs white thing, i think it's almost a telling mentality that you do perceive those comments as such. Someone can talk about the differences between two things, without it being a battle between good and evil or who is right and who is wrong. We categorize all the time, we talk about men in relation to women, tall people in relation to short people, straight people in relation to gay people...it's not an attempt to disregard medium height people, trans people or bisexual people, it's really about the level of nuance that is expected and manageable in a conversation.

    To me, that article reads 100 percent as a "us versus us" article, i am not sure where you are taking any offense.




    That's my point EXACTLY!

    Why is it necessarily THOSE two things - black and white?

    As I pointed out in a previous point above, EVERYTHING he used as examples in his article could be said of every gay person no matter what their "race" or ethnicity. Yet HE chose to make the comparison between black and white, not I.

    You point out opposites such as men/women, tall/short, etc. So are you saying the opposite of black people is white people? Not red people? Brown people? Yellow people? Just white people? And I get called a racist. Lol

    The fact is it's not a black or white or brown or yellow thing; it's a PEOPLE thing.
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Dec 30, 2015 11:39 PM GMT
    I find it fascinating that the two white posters zeroed in on the notion of black vs white


    Are one of those posters me? Cause i thought i was clearly calling undercoverman a possible undercover racist because he did zero in on that. Maybe you should reread what i wrote.


    So are you saying the opposite of black people is white people?


    Yes, I am. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Maybe you should also reread what i wrote.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2015 1:37 AM GMT
    ^ I'm fully aware of what you wrote. It's just that categorizing people is a bit more dangerous, especially when based on skin color.
  • highforthis

    Posts: 680

    Dec 31, 2015 1:42 AM GMT
    Blacks are the most marginalized, whites are the least marginalized. Contrast is how people make a point, simple as that. Can always count on undercoverman to find any opportunity to downplay white privilege. Someone had mentioned that's how people like him and Radd try to make up for "ageism" and it's probably true icon_lol.gif
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    Dec 31, 2015 1:48 AM GMT
    MrFuscle said...

    480845824-player-odell-beckham-jr-accept


    All I know is that this gay man would definitely wear that jacket!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2015 1:50 AM GMT
    And here I thought it was just a rite of passage. Thanks Mom & Dad for the several years of pain & orthodonture & now I will reward you by not smiling for the next five years...
    icon_neutral.gif
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3521

    Dec 31, 2015 1:52 AM GMT
    in most parts of america and canada, don't blacks and whites pretty much never have to deal with each other? Why would you care what people you rarely interact with think? I'm not really worried about what russian eskimoes think of my sex life, why would you worry about what people who live in 99% white areas think of you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2015 1:57 AM GMT
    highforthis saidBlacks are the most marginalized, whites are the least marginalized. Contrast is how people make a point, simple as that. Can always count on undercoverman to find any opportunity to downplay white privilege. Someone had mentioned that's how people like him and Radd try to make up for "ageism" and it's probably true icon_lol.gif


    Ah! The other odious turd rears his ugly (and always empty) head.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2015 1:59 AM GMT
    Apparition saidin most parts of america and canada, don't blacks and whites pretty much never have to deal with each other? Why would you care what people you rarely interact with think? I'm not really worried about what russian eskimoes think of my sex life, why would you worry about what people who live in 99% white areas think of you.


    Dunno. Ask the author of the article.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2015 12:09 PM GMT
    It looks like red velvet cut to look like alligator skin.

    A black sombrero would work with the jacket also but I'd prefer a matching red velvet alligator print.

    (I'm married to a Mexican.)
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    Dec 31, 2015 3:31 PM GMT
    badbug saidI find it fascinating that the two white posters zeroed in on the notion of black vs white


    Are one of those posters me? Cause i thought i was clearly calling undercoverman a possible undercover racist because he did zero in on that. Maybe you should reread what i wrote.


    So are you saying the opposite of black people is white people?


    Yes, I am. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Maybe you should also reread what i wrote.




    Lol sorry, I had only read the first line of your reply. That shows me the pitfalls of laziness. Yes, its mainly an us vs us article. It's a conversation the black community has been having for a while. Why do we put so much emphasis on a closed minded, anti bonding form of hyper masculinity. Some blame the fall of the black family. I remember reading an article a year ago stating that since the sixties the marriage rate among American blacks has plummeted by an astonishing degree (I've forgotten the exact numbers). Others blame economic circumstances, mass incarceration, black women and so on.

    I've heard many black women turn black guys down because he was too soft or a punk. Its sad because the traits that make these guys undesirable to them would make them great father's and husbands.

  • highforthis

    Posts: 680

    Dec 31, 2015 4:51 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said
    highforthis saidBlacks are the most marginalized, whites are the least marginalized. Contrast is how people make a point, simple as that. Can always count on undercoverman to find any opportunity to downplay white privilege. Someone had mentioned that's how people like him and Radd try to make up for "ageism" and it's probably true icon_lol.gif


    Ah! The other odious turd rears his ugly (and always empty) head.


    And you are a dried up cunt, but that has nothing to do with the argument either. What are u, 12?