I am the immigrant they claim is taking away your jobs!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 01, 2016 7:56 PM GMT
    I have been a long time lurker here and I read this post:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4158154
    and I felt that I need to share my story. Some of you will dehumanize me by calling me a troll as this is my first post but I do not need your validation to post here.

    I am an Indian. I came to U.S. in 2013 to pursue a master’s degree. I am now a foreign STEM graduate who has a valid work permit and as demonstrated in the post I shared, immigrants like me are often the target of those who say that foreigners like me are using work visas to take away jobs from American workers.

    I came to America because I am gay and I wanted to immigrate to a country that treats its LGBT residents better than the country of my birth. I know that some Indians will come running to this thread saying that ‘The situation is not that bad!’. I think that they forget that there is no one single experience that holds true for ALL LGBT individuals in India. I am just speaking for myself. I was completely wrecked because of what I had to endure and I came to America not just to start a new life but also to heal.

    I get hurt when some of you say that immigrants like me are stealing your jobs. How can I be here thinking of ruining someone else life when my own life was in shambles! I am here to rebuild my life. I am here to learn how to smile again. I am here to contribute, not to take away anything from you guys.

    If you are a gay immigrant like me, please feel free to share your story!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 01, 2016 8:24 PM GMT
    I'm not an immigrant, but I love immigrants and applaud your ambition and confidence in doing something to fix your situation. Also, if you returned to India, another STEM visa holder would take your place.

    But don't assume US politicians did this for you. Obama did this as a favor to Wall Street/Silicon Valley Billionaire supporters, because they donate millions to him and now Hillary. Silicon Valley wants to reduce the wage levels of all STEM graduates, because that makes their stock prices rise. So, expect to work your ass off, and see most of your wages go for taxes and living expenses.

    The Democrats also benefit, because this hurts educated professionals who often vote Republican. Now those voters will need gov't handouts, which the Democrats offer as a way to buy their votes. So in the short term, you are in. But eventually you will get hurt by the flood of younger, cheaper workers coming up behind you.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 01, 2016 8:37 PM GMT
    I was in Canada for a couple of years. It was a wonderful experience in many ways mostly that it gave me the strength to come out to my family and some close friends here. I am also lucky that my parents adore me for who I am and were very positive in their response. I was actually thinking that they would be disappointed at first but would come around it but they were OK from the beginning. This of course knowing that in some parts of the world my father's turbaned head, beard, brown skin and mum's traditional clothing and religious devotion would immediately brand them as bigots without ever having speaking to them .

    Around last year, my parents and I were watching a talk show which interviewed a gay man, a lesbian, a woman who once identified herself as straight and married to a man for quite some time before she realised her calling is with women; and a gay man who transitioned to a woman. After the show my parents (my father actually, though my mother was sitting right next to him) said if you ever want to become a woman, then don't hesitate, you have our support and that don't worry about anyone else. I told them I have no desire of becoming a woman and I am content with who I am. It was an embarrassing moment but it was still a sweet gesture.

    Ever since coming out of closet though, my parents have gotten over-protective and it sometimes irks me but I also understand their worries knowing that we live in a society that subjects us to co-dependence and conformity. My parents want me to live here but sometimes they also think that it would be better for me to live abroad. I came out to my sisters years before I left for Canada and it was their support that inspired me to move to Canada in the first place for reasons the same as you.


    In Canada, my visa was coming to expire and I was on a permit that does not allow extension. I had to come back and it devastated me to an extent but more so because I was dating a guy and we lived together for an year. But I was also happy in a way to be back with my sisters and my parents and adjusting to the joys of living with people I love and care. In addition, I will get to be a part of my two niece as they grow up. In Canada, I felt lonely often but my boyfriend was such a wonderful person that I even started thinking I can live here forever. I was out to everyone there, my workmates, college friends, there was this freedom and sense of safety that I definitely miss here. Though, still some days the desperation of being far away from family would eat me from within.

    Wherever you go some way, somehow becomes a part of you. You actually somewhat lose a sense of home once you become privy to a bigger world. No city can fully contain you I think . Didn't they say ignorance is bliss?

    There is indeed shortage of labour in certain industries across USA and Canada but those fields are technical and scientific and some of them require very specific expertise. Anything else, would be hard to get into unless you are graduate from the likes of Ivy League or Stanford or other very well renowned college. Therefore, I think you are doing a good job and so you rightfully deserve what's yours.


    Good luck!

















  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 01, 2016 8:56 PM GMT
    It's pretty disingenuous to argue with the OP that legal immigrants are insulated from bigotry. People can be so ignorant, and they judge on appearances anyway. If someone just feels prejudiced against a certain group, they really don't care if they're here legally or not.
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 873

    Jan 02, 2016 3:58 AM GMT
    Job market is what it is - a market.

    Whoever is out there looking for job is a possible candidate to take my job away from me, because he may be better and he may be costing my employers less. (Not always in this order of importance.)

    The fact that many countries allow immigrant access to the labor market has a lot to do with strategic interests of these countries to provide goods and services at globally competitive rates. The fact that those who own and/or run the companies wish to make profits is a given. They are not charities. They are businesses, and they are here to make as much as possible. Bashing these guys for their corporate greed is both tired and useless.

    No matter where you look, from the job market to the daily fresh meat market for the NSA hook ups and everywhere in between, all the players feel the competition breathing at their necks. So, a few guys start daydreaming about the world where they would be the only ones with a specific degree, a six pack, big cock, whatever. Sure, the people are free to daydream.

    Their daydreaming is however never going to change the reality. So, a good thing is to learn to shrug with your shoulders, keep learning, acquiring further aces up your sleeve, and moving on without a comment. You have got a life a to live, and your goals to achieve. So, the ones who put in sufficient work and effort into doing so, do get forward. The daydreamers? Well, they keep on daydreaming...

    SC
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 02, 2016 7:21 AM GMT
    proud_lgbt_poc saidI have been a long time lurker here and I read this post:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4158154
    Some of you will dehumanize me by calling me a troll as this is my first post


    This may very well be a troll post. Sure looks like it. If you don't want to be considered a troll, have a profile with photos, don't post with a "hidden profile", and be verified. If you can't do that, why should anyone here consider you other than trolling.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 02, 2016 7:26 AM GMT
    HikerSkier said
    proud_lgbt_poc saidI have been a long time lurker here and I read this post:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4158154
    Some of you will dehumanize me by calling me a troll as this is my first post


    This may very well be a troll post. Sure looks like it. If you don't want to be considered a troll, have a profile with photos, don't post with a "hidden profile", and be verified. If you can't do that, why should anyone here consider you other than trolling.



    ++++++++++

    Sure writes like an American
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 02, 2016 7:27 AM GMT
    HottJoe saidIt's pretty disingenuous to argue with the OP that legal immigrants are insulated from bigotry. People can be so ignorant, and they judge on appearances anyway. If someone just feels prejudiced against a certain group, they really don't care if they're here legally or not.

    Joe, what the hell are you arguing against? An invisible straw man? Unless posted by someone on my ignore list, I saw nothing suggesting that "legal immigrants are insulated from bigotry." The OP just complained that people complained that his presence in the USA on some HB visa was depriving an american of a job (which it undoubtedly is).
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3525

    Jan 02, 2016 8:03 AM GMT
    just to play devil's advocate, the only way to make the hell holes of the world better places is to have the useful people stand up, act up, and let all the people repressing you know that you are among them, they depend on you, and you have power. Then you can live with your family, in the familiar geography and generation after generation doesnt have to run away.

    Granted I wouldnt want to do much work in an unsafe environment either and would run away, but somebody has to make the changes or nothing ever gets done. This is one of hte reasons i dont think the west should be able to steal the doctors from the third world.
  • Suetonius

    Posts: 1842

    Jan 02, 2016 8:44 AM GMT
    Apparition saidjust to play devil's advocate, the only way to make the hell holes of the world better places is to have the useful people stand up, act up, and let all the people repressing you know that you are among them, they depend on you, and you have power. Then you can live with your family, in the familiar geography and generation after generation doesnt have to run away.

    Granted I wouldnt want to do much work in an unsafe environment either and would run away, but somebody has to make the changes or nothing ever gets done.

    That can only work in real democracies - of which there are few in this world. But I would let all gay people come to the USA - rather than keep the 11 million illegals we already have.
  • NerdLifter

    Posts: 1509

    Jan 02, 2016 2:19 PM GMT
    TL;DR: SilverRRCloud put it best; a market is a market. To quote him:
    SilverRRCloud"Whoever is out there looking for job is a possible candidate to take my job away from me, because he may be better and he may be costing my employers less."


    Incoming poorly written pseudo-essay-rant by someone who is barely awake at the moment:

    There is a reason other countries/regions have far stricter immigration controls; they know that an immigrant added is a job taken away from a native citizen. The bar to legal immigration via work permit in the United States has become pretty low; I did not have this viewpoint until I entered the workforce myself and had first-hand experiences with people who purposefully get visas in order to get American level-pay to send back home (India) due to highly favorable conversation rates.

    And let's keep it real, corporate America likes this system; it deflates wages/salaries/benefits. This has lead me to become rather jaded as I get older and remember the struggles I had trying to find a mechanical engineering job in my area, only to find it through interviews and talking with industry reps that a lot of starter-level jobs in CompE and MechE have been moved abroad, resulting in an over-saturation of graduates-to-jobs ratio. I ended up retooling my skill-set and ended up in the computer science field.

    I am not here to bash the OP; he came here after a poor LGBT experience in India, which is understandable and I empathize. I feel that his reasons are a more legitimate, escaping oppression, and do not get me wrong, plenty of legal immigrants come here for justifiable and similar reasons too. But do not kid ourselves into thinking that they all come for justifiable reasons or that a high-skilled job they take will not displace a skilled-person here in the United States, at least temporarily. There are arguments to be made that through their innovations they can produce additional jobs here in the States, which is something I seen first hand. One of our own firm's executives came here, and now we are growing and adding record number of jobs; so it is also not always a zero-sum-gain as some would make it out to be if the person being hired is truly exceptional. But that's the key: they must be truly exceptional, and that is the standard that many European countries require for work permits. The standard is: you must prove that there is no one else who is a citizen who is available in the job market for that job. And sure, we say that on paper, but it really has to be enforced as strictly as I have seen elsewhere, but we flatly don't.

    I do not understand why, until you factor in the lobbying and lust for cheaper labor by greedy firms.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 02, 2016 4:35 PM GMT
    You are presumably a legal immigrant. No one can blame you for wanting to improve your situation.

    At issue for many is the US government's cozy relationship with big business and the H-1B visa program. Studies have shown there is no shortage of STEM workers in the US. There is a shortage of workers that are willing to work for low pay.

    Criticism of the H-1B program comes from two directions: Many workers don’t become U.S. citizens, so hiring them ultimately transfers skills to foreign competitors.

    Meanwhile, they tend to depress wages. Regulations call for equivalent pay, but employers often use loopholes to pay at the low end of industry scales.

    http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/aug/23/h1b-visa-foreign-competitors-next-cubicle/

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 02, 2016 4:53 PM GMT
    The USA is like gay men stuck in their adolescence . Once we were young country and there was a whole continent to populate. We still have that adolescent attitude regarding immingration. In reality we show all the signs of over population which ironically is the condition you are running away from.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jan 02, 2016 5:08 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidThe USA is like gay men stuck in their adolescence . Once we were young country and there was a whole continent to populate. We still have that adolescent attitude regarding immingration. In reality we show all the signs of over population which ironically is the condition you are running away from.


    Just imagine China with 4-5x the population and pretty much the same land mass as the US (no wonder they want out). India is an over-populated nightmare also.

    But I agree, it's time to put the brakes on immigration to the US. 240 years and 330 million people later, it's enough.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 02, 2016 5:13 PM GMT
    We have an H1B on my team at work, and he/she is easily the weakest sack of crap we have. On the other side of the coin, we have another worker who is a recent immigrant who is applying for citizenship and he/she is pretty amazing. The biggest difference is one feels really entitled, the other only wants to work hard and do a good job.
  • NerdLifter

    Posts: 1509

    Jan 02, 2016 6:12 PM GMT
    desertmuscl saidYou are presumably a legal immigrant. No one can blame you for wanting to improve your situation.

    At issue for many is the US government's cozy relationship with big business and the H-1B visa program. Studies have shown there is no shortage of STEM workers in the US. There is a shortage of workers that are willing to work for low pay.

    Criticism of the H-1B program comes from two directions: Many workers don’t become U.S. citizens, so hiring them ultimately transfers skills to foreign competitors.

    Meanwhile, they tend to depress wages. Regulations call for equivalent pay, but employers often use loopholes to pay at the low end of industry scales.

    http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/aug/23/h1b-visa-foreign-competitors-next-cubicle/


    Desertmuscl and I often don't see to eye-to-eye, but I had to bold two sections I've seen first hand and must agree with him. The system as it currently stands is being highly abused, and the ones being displaced the most are sadly U.S. STEM graduates, and if it doesn't displace them, it certainly depresses their wages.
  • FredMG

    Posts: 988

    Jan 02, 2016 6:40 PM GMT
    If you're qualified to do the work, welcome! If you work to become a U.S. Citizen then even more so.

    One of the big problems with this country is that we don't hold our kids accountable - for things like good grades and graduating high school. I'd much rather work with someone who has busted his ass to get an education, emigrate and get a job than a snotty, entitled kid who can't pull his own weight.
  • jperfit

    Posts: 593

    Jan 02, 2016 6:50 PM GMT
    Your not taking away American jobs, Corporate America is more then willing to outsource these jobs to countries such as india do to the fact that the American Govt taxes businesses to death and its just cheaper to out source elsewhere
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jan 02, 2016 6:58 PM GMT
    actually, jobs are a zero sum game, so immigrants do, in fact, take away American jobs, Canadian jobs, French jobs
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jan 02, 2016 7:09 PM GMT
    rodo saidIf competition ain't your thing then brush off icon_surprised.gif


    at 57, I've learned that "competition" in the job place is overrated bullshit
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 02, 2016 7:11 PM GMT
    Jobs aren't created with a nationality in mind. That's a fallacy.

    Jobs are created with skill sets in mind. That should be obvious.


    Tell kids to turn TV off and go get skills.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 02, 2016 7:11 PM GMT
    at this point all of the electronics are manufactured in China. Probably most of everything is made there. What is made in the US is assembled from components and sub assemblies make in China.

    The decay is not one single job here and there but whole departments are moved over seas.

    Immigrants that work here at least pay local taxes, buy services here. Chances are they have a family attitude and a cautious quiet life.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jan 02, 2016 7:15 PM GMT
    rodo saidJobs aren't created with a nationality in mind. That's a fallacy.

    Jobs are created with skill sets in mind. That should be obvious.


    Tell kids to turn TV off and go get skills.


    please, entire "skill sets" have been shipped overseas

    the main problem is completely inept management after they completely fucked up

    they fuck up so utterly badly, that their only solution is to go with cheap labor in some shit hole like India or Vietnam

    that idiot Carly Fiorina is a prime example
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 02, 2016 7:16 PM GMT
    Maybe instead of not letting people in, we should build a wall so they can't get out. We'll just recruit all the immigrants on earth and teach them to engineer our ever expanding firewalls.

    "We want you!"

    ---Uncle Samicon_twisted.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 02, 2016 7:24 PM GMT
    HikerSkier said
    HottJoe saidIt's pretty disingenuous to argue with the OP that legal immigrants are insulated from bigotry. People can be so ignorant, and they judge on appearances anyway. If someone just feels prejudiced against a certain group, they really don't care if they're here legally or not.

    Joe, what the hell are you arguing against? An invisible straw man? Unless posted by someone on my ignore list, I saw nothing suggesting that "legal immigrants are insulated from bigotry." The OP just complained that people complained that his presence in the USA on some HB visa was depriving an american of a job (which it undoubtedly is).

    If the immigrants are more qualified for the job then it's just bigotry to say they should be excluded because of where they were born. We're a nation of immigrants. There's nothing new happening here. It's always been a competition. Why should being an American be an advantage in any given field? The best doctor is the best doctor. The best scientist is the best scientist. The best writer is the best writer. What does job performance have to do with country of origin?