Can States Protect LGBT Rights Without Compromising Religious Freedom?

  • metta

    Posts: 39143

    Jan 07, 2016 12:07 AM GMT
    Can States Protect LGBT Rights Without Compromising Religious Freedom?

    Same-sex marriage has made it easier to discriminate against gay people in the U.S. In 2016, legislatures will take on this issue, but the fights may get nasty.


    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/lgbt-discrimination-protection-states-religion/422730/
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Jan 07, 2016 1:53 AM GMT
    Republicans who are this passionate about hating gay people need to face reality and be sent a clear message: YOU HAVE LOST. That ship has sailed.
    Message to the GOP bigots: Instead of living your lives in a country you hate and being miserable, you should find a country to move to that shares your beliefs. Many third-world countries are still persecuting gays and forcing religion on their citizens... I would think that Republican bigots would be thrilled to be living among like-minded haters.
    To the anti-gay GOP: Please do us all a favor and leave the USA and go live among your own kind.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14360

    Jan 07, 2016 1:09 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    metta saidCan States Protect LGBT Rights Without Compromising Religious Freedom?

    Same-sex marriage has made it easier to discriminate against gay people in the U.S. In 2016, legislatures will take on this issue, but the fights may get nasty.


    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/lgbt-discrimination-protection-states-religion/422730/



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    Will you knock it off with the copy and paste statements. We already know that and your repeating it is getting aggravating.
  • jeepguySD

    Posts: 651

    Jan 07, 2016 4:42 PM GMT
    The cause of "religious freedom" is a hollow one, and nothing more than misdirection. If the issue was really about the freedom to do as one's religion prescribes, then the following would have to be permitted:

    Fathers could sell their daughters into slavery (Exodus 21:7)

    Any child (or son) who curses a parent would be put to death (Exodus 21:1, or Leviticus 20:9)

    Anyone can own a slave, so long as the master does not beat the slave to death (Exodus 21:20)

    Rebellious sons would be put to death (Deuteronomy 21:18 )

    Blasphemy would be punished by death (Leviticus 24:19)

    Adultery would be punished by death (Leviticus 20:10-12)

    And so much more, all of which is illegal. So let's not pretend LGBT rights has anything to do with "religious freedom."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 07, 2016 4:46 PM GMT
    Jeeepguy, you hit the nail on the head. Religious liberty is one thing but your rights only extend as far as the end of your nose.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 07, 2016 4:52 PM GMT
    jeepguySD saidThe cause of "religious freedom" is a hollow one, and nothing more than misdirection. If the issue was really about the freedom to do as one's religion prescribes, then the following would have to be permitted:

    Fathers could sell their daughters into slavery (Exodus 21:7)

    Any child (or son) who curses a parent would be put to death (Exodus 21:1, or Leviticus 20:9)

    Anyone can own a slave, so long as the master does not beat the slave to death (Exodus 21:20)

    Rebellious sons would be put to death (Deuteronomy 21:18 )

    Blasphemy would be punished by death (Leviticus 24:19)

    Adultery would be punished by death (Leviticus 20:10-12)

    And so much more, all of which is illegal. So let's not pretend LGBT rights has anything to do with "religious freedom."

    Christians often let their leaders get away with scapegoating gays, because the Bible justifies a litany of evil behavior, but rather than admit the sinister aspects of the "good book" they're content to turn a blind eye to human suffering and chalk it up to faith. Why take responsibly for awful behavior when it's ordained by a mythical man in the sky?
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jan 07, 2016 7:22 PM GMT
    Christians often let their leaders get away with scapegoating gays.

    But please remember that other Christians have been not just welcoming and affirming, but proactive in supporting LGBT people and our rights.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jan 08, 2016 9:57 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    jeepguySD saidThe cause of "religious freedom" is a hollow one, and nothing more than misdirection. If the issue was really about the freedom to do as one's religion prescribes, then the following would have to be permitted:

    Fathers could sell their daughters into slavery (Exodus 21:7)

    Any child (or son) who curses a parent would be put to death (Exodus 21:1, or Leviticus 20:9)

    Anyone can own a slave, so long as the master does not beat the slave to death (Exodus 21:20)

    Rebellious sons would be put to death (Deuteronomy 21:18 )

    Blasphemy would be punished by death (Leviticus 24:19)

    Adultery would be punished by death (Leviticus 20:10-12)

    And so much more, all of which is illegal. So let's not pretend LGBT rights has anything to do with "religious freedom."

    Christians often let their leaders get away with scapegoating gays, because the Bible justifies a litany of evil behavior, but rather than admit the sinister aspects of the "good book" they're content to turn a blind eye to human suffering and chalk it up to faith. Why take responsibly for awful behavior when it's ordained by a mythical man in the sky?


    The Bible should not be considered to be a unified document. Parts of the OT are simply a reflection of ancient Hebrew culture much of which I'm sure God would not approve and never did. It may be included in the Bible to give us a better understanding of ancient Hebrew culture.

    Some other parts of the OT are the history of the ancient Hebrews and we know that when people write their history they distort it to rationalize or hide some of the ghastly things they have done. Some versions of American history have been written like that so we should not be surprised that the ancient Hebrews have done the same thing.

    Much of the Bible, including the Ten Commandments, was written to support social justice and to encourage respect for God. The parts written to support social justice, such as the Command not to bear false witness and not to murder, would surely be endorsed by all civilized people, even including people with no religion.

    Obviously some fundamentalists use the Bible to rationalize unkind, unloving, and uncivilized behavior. They should not be permitted to get away with it.

    Also, supporting complete freedom of religion would not be a reasonable thing to do. Surely it would not be reasonable to support the "right" of some people to make a burned sacrifice of their first born children or to force their young daughters into marriage. Similarly, although perhaps less obviously, it would not be reasonable to support the "right" of some people to force their religious beliefs onto others or to discriminate against responsible people who whose relationships are "non-traditional".
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 08, 2016 10:13 PM GMT
    tazzari saidChristians often let their leaders get away with scapegoating gays.

    But please remember that other Christians have been not just welcoming and affirming, but proactive in supporting LGBT people and our rights.

    Episcopalians are the exception to the rule, but they bend a lot of traditional Christian rules, to the point where conservatives etc would simply say they're going to hell too.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 08, 2016 10:15 PM GMT
    FRE0 said
    HottJoe said
    jeepguySD saidThe cause of "religious freedom" is a hollow one, and nothing more than misdirection. If the issue was really about the freedom to do as one's religion prescribes, then the following would have to be permitted:

    Fathers could sell their daughters into slavery (Exodus 21:7)

    Any child (or son) who curses a parent would be put to death (Exodus 21:1, or Leviticus 20:9)

    Anyone can own a slave, so long as the master does not beat the slave to death (Exodus 21:20)

    Rebellious sons would be put to death (Deuteronomy 21:18 )

    Blasphemy would be punished by death (Leviticus 24:19)

    Adultery would be punished by death (Leviticus 20:10-12)

    And so much more, all of which is illegal. So let's not pretend LGBT rights has anything to do with "religious freedom."

    Christians often let their leaders get away with scapegoating gays, because the Bible justifies a litany of evil behavior, but rather than admit the sinister aspects of the "good book" they're content to turn a blind eye to human suffering and chalk it up to faith. Why take responsibly for awful behavior when it's ordained by a mythical man in the sky?


    The Bible should not be considered to be a unified document. Parts of the OT are simply a reflection of ancient Hebrew culture much of which I'm sure God would not approve and never did. It may be included in the Bible to give us a better understanding of ancient Hebrew culture.

    Some other parts of the OT are the history of the ancient Hebrews and we know that when people write their history they distort it to rationalize or hide some of the ghastly things they have done. Some versions of American history have been written like that so we should not be surprised that the ancient Hebrews have done the same thing.

    Much of the Bible, including the Ten Commandments, was written to support social justice and to encourage respect for God. The parts written to support social justice, such as the Command not to bear false witness and not to murder, would surely be endorsed by all civilized people, even including people with no religion.

    Obviously some fundamentalists use the Bible to rationalize unkind, unloving, and uncivilized behavior. They should not be permitted to get away with it.

    Also, supporting complete freedom of religion would not be a reasonable thing to do. Surely it would not be reasonable to support the "right" of some people to make a burned sacrifice of their first born children or to force their young daughters into marriage. Similarly, although perhaps less obviously, it would not be reasonable to support the "right" of some people to force their religious beliefs onto others or to discriminate against responsible people who whose relationships are "non-traditional".

    The OT was written by slaves then later used by Christians as a justification for slavery.

    Jesus wept.icon_evil.gificon_cry.gif
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jan 08, 2016 10:17 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    tazzari saidChristians often let their leaders get away with scapegoating gays.

    But please remember that other Christians have been not just welcoming and affirming, but proactive in supporting LGBT people and our rights.

    Episcopalians are the exception to the rule, but they bend a lot of traditional Christian rules, to the point where conservatives etc would simply say they're going to hell too.


    The can witter on and decide who's in and who's out;; everyone has the right to be an idiot.

    But it's not just Episcopalians: Methodists, Quakers, quite a few other denominations are already fully open and affirming. It's just that the Catholics (the minority who buy into it all) and fundies who are really off the deep end. As Martha Washington use to say to George, "Fuck 'em!" Or words to that effect. icon_smile.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 08, 2016 10:27 PM GMT
    tazzari said
    HottJoe said
    tazzari saidChristians often let their leaders get away with scapegoating gays.

    But please remember that other Christians have been not just welcoming and affirming, but proactive in supporting LGBT people and our rights.

    Episcopalians are the exception to the rule, but they bend a lot of traditional Christian rules, to the point where conservatives etc would simply say they're going to hell too.


    The can witter on and decide who's in and who's out;; everyone has the right to be an idiot.

    But it's not just Episcopalians: Methodists, Quakers, quite a few other denominations are already fully open and affirming. It's just that the Catholics (the minority who buy into it all) and fundies who are really off the deep end. As Martha Washington use to say to George, "Fuck 'em!" Or words to that effect. icon_smile.gif

    Yeah, the Catholic church forever poisoned Christianity for me. I tried going to an Episcopal service, but it wasn't oppressive enough, and so it didn't feel like God was even there. It just felt like pointless pageantry without someone to judge me for masturbating. I felt like I was taking advantage of a God when he was looking the other way.icon_confused.gif

    Edit: props to the quakers for being against slavery though.
  • jeepguySD

    Posts: 651

    Jan 09, 2016 12:54 AM GMT
    tazzari saidChristians often let their leaders get away with scapegoating gays.

    But please remember that other Christians have been not just welcoming and affirming, but proactive in supporting LGBT people and our rights.


    No doubt that is true, but sadly those are not the Christians who influence political discourse, and certainly not those who seem to drive the agenda of the Republican base.
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    Jan 09, 2016 6:16 AM GMT
    I'm sure that even 200 years ago, people rolled their eyes and thought that surely, in another generation or two, these stone-age death cults will just fade away. After all, it's almost the 19th century!

    But writing unlimited "freedom" for the insane into the constitution was always just a ticking time bomb.
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    Jan 09, 2016 6:27 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    southbeach1500 said
    metta saidCan States Protect LGBT Rights Without Compromising Religious Freedom?

    Same-sex marriage has made it easier to discriminate against gay people in the U.S. In 2016, legislatures will take on this issue, but the fights may get nasty.


    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/lgbt-discrimination-protection-states-religion/422730/



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    Will you knock it off with the copy and paste statements. We already know that and your repeating it is getting aggravating.


    You mean sorta like "liberal extremist hen" and 'narrow minded bible thumping screwballs ?
  • metta

    Posts: 39143

    Jan 14, 2016 6:25 AM GMT
    Interesting quote...

    6117_4748948056099_1411999560_n.jpg?oh=b
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    Jan 15, 2016 11:52 PM GMT
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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 21, 2016 2:06 AM GMT
    Allegiance