Leading Greek Orthodox bishop says gay people are God's children so don't reject them

  • metta

    Posts: 39138

    Jan 12, 2016 6:50 AM GMT
    Leading Greek Orthodox bishop says gay people are God's children so don't reject them

    Chrysostomos Savvatos, Greek Orthodox Metropolitan of Messinia, has spoken out to defend homosexuals after a colleague said they should be beaten and spat upon

    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/leading-greek-orthodox-bishop-says-gay-people-are-gods-children-so-dont-reject-them/
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 12, 2016 4:32 PM GMT
    This is a BIG change for Orthodoxy, in whatever national garb it's clothed. Its various American churches - Russian, Serbian, Greek, Romanian, Macedonian, etc. - have long been officially dismissive of gays, even though we're just as prevalent there as anywhere else. This will be a good start towards reevaluating and restating the Orthodox position.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jan 12, 2016 11:09 PM GMT
    Sam27 saidTo be honest, being an Arab Orthodox Christian is not easy to be out. We are part of the Greek Orthodox Church. One bishop doesn't means all Orthodox Christians agree with him.

    It is true, Orthodox Christians do believe we are all (humans-LGBT and Straight) God's children.


    Quite true, but it is a step in the right direction. They have to start from where they are.
  • shutoman

    Posts: 505

    Jan 13, 2016 1:24 AM GMT
    I was surprised to see this too - it's not even a battle, just a salvo; but it's a welcome salvo.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jan 15, 2016 8:51 PM GMT
    I am including a link to what is going on in the Anglican Communion with regard to same-sex marriages. Beginning at paragraph six is a comparison of the positions in the Episcopal Church with what was stated in a meeting of Anglican Primates. You will see that the Episcopal Church supports same-sex marriage but not all churches in the Anglican communion do.

    Integrity is the organization in the Episcopal Church for gay men and women.

    http://walkingwithintegrity.blogspot.com/2016/01/integrity-response-to-2016-anglican.html

    People who are highly familiar with the OT will be aware that at one time a woman was the property of her father until a man bought her from her father to become his wife at which time she became the property of her husband. In the Command "Thou shalt not covet" a man's wife was listed with his house cattle, and other possessions. Thus, those who say that they support only traditional marriage are not being quite honest.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 16, 2016 12:05 AM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    greek_war_elephant_by_gardenoffears-d7v9
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 21, 2016 2:10 AM GMT
    States
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 25, 2016 2:56 AM GMT
    More importantly, if there is no God, whose children are we?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 25, 2016 3:10 AM GMT
    Sam27 said...

    I should go to my Orthodox Church more often!

    article-2535114-1A77354F00000578-977_964


    I was not aware the Orthodox prayed the rosary.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 25, 2016 3:35 AM GMT
    I agree this is a positive move but keep it in perspective.

    Essentially the church is saying that Gays are people and as such should not be mistreated, which is what most churches say about most people. It is not the same as saying Gay relationships are ok or supporting Gay marriage.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 25, 2016 6:59 AM GMT
    ^ Rhetorical. I know you don't. Whoever put the calendar together; however, doesn't know.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 25, 2016 8:43 AM GMT
    Orthodox Churches are the most beautiful of all churches.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 26, 2016 12:03 AM GMT
    Counting prayers on knotted cord was a monastic practice in the early church long before the schism between the church in the East and that in the West. The Catholic Church did not adopt it as the early church, before the Great Schism, is just as much a part of the patrimony of the Church in the West as it is for the Church in the East. The prayer forms may have diverged through the centuries but they are rooted in the same tradition. The bead arrangement in pic look very similar to a Catholic rosary. I'm going to look into this some more as I find it interesting. We are often more similar than we realize.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jan 26, 2016 12:09 AM GMT
    Sam27 said
    UndercoverMan said
    Sam27 said...

    I should go to my Orthodox Church more often!

    article-2535114-1A77354F00000578-977_964


    I was not aware the Orthodox prayed the rosary.


    No... We don't.

    https://oca.org/questions/romancatholicism/the-rosary


    Does the Orthodox Church refer to Mary as the mother of God?
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jan 26, 2016 12:11 AM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidCounting prayers on knotted cord was a monastic practice in the early church long before the schism between the church in the East and that in the West. The Catholic Church did not adopt it as the early church, before the Great Schism, is just as much a part of the patrimony of the Church in the West as it is for the Church in the East. The prayer forms may have diverged through the centuries but they are rooted in the same tradition. The bead arrangement in pic look very similar to a Catholic rosary. I'm going to look into this some more as I find it interesting. We are often more similar than we realize.


    Some Muslims use prayer beads.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 26, 2016 3:16 PM GMT
    Sam27 said
    FRE0 said
    Does the Orthodox Church refer to Mary as the mother of God?


    Hi FRE0, no we don't say "Mother of God". Only Catholic and Anglicans/Protestants do. We say Mother of Jesus. Mother Mary gave birth to God.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theotokos


    a lot of the seemingly big issues that separate the churches of the east and the churches of the west is semantics and pride. Catholics do not believe that Mary is the mother of God in the sense that if Mary didn't exist God wouldn't exist as you wouldn't exist if your mother didn't exist. It would be ludicrous to believe the created came before the creator. I believe both the Orthodox and the Catholics believe Mary is the mother of Jesus. There are many instances in the New Testament where Jesus claims to be one with the Divinity (God). We both proclaim this in the Nicene Creed. If we believe Jesus is God then Mary as mother of Jesus would therefore could be rightly referred to as the Mother of God. It's all wrapped up in the mystery of the Trinity, on which I don't claim to be an expert.

    If you say Mother Mary gave birth to God isn't that the same as saying Mother of God? My mother gave birth to me. People refer to her as UndercoverMan's mother, which is equivalent to saying she is the mother of UndercoverMan.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 27, 2016 2:06 AM GMT
    ^ But doesn't the Orthodox Church recognize Mary under the title Theotokos which translates as "God-bearer", "Birth-Giver of God" or "the one who gives birth to God"?

    Catholics and most mainline Protestant churches also believe in the Trinity.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 27, 2016 5:14 AM GMT
    Thanks. I'm learning a lot about orthodox beliefs. Not many orthodox in these parts.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 27, 2016 3:10 PM GMT
    Sam27 saidYou are welcome. I didn't know you are a religious Catholic?


    Was.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jan 27, 2016 11:08 PM GMT
    Sam27 said
    UndercoverMan said^ But doesn't the Orthodox Church recognize Mary under the title Theotokos which translates as "God-bearer", "Birth-Giver of God" or "the one who gives birth to God"?

    Catholics and most mainline Protestant churches also believe in the Trinity.


    Virgin Mary is the Theotokos. When Mary is mentioned in our Orthodox services, we use the title "all-holy, immaculate, most blessed and glorified lady, the Theotokos and ever-virgin Mary".

    http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/theotokos.aspx
    http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/evervirgin.aspx


    There are things in the NT which seem to indicate that Mary did not remain a virgin AFTER the birth of Jesus. In any case, there is nothing that I have seen in the NT to indicate that she did remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus. It is unclear why many people insist that she did remain a virgin.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 28, 2016 6:40 AM GMT
    Sam27 said
    FRE0 said
    Sam27 said
    UndercoverMan said^ But doesn't the Orthodox Church recognize Mary under the title Theotokos which translates as "God-bearer", "Birth-Giver of God" or "the one who gives birth to God"?

    Catholics and most mainline Protestant churches also believe in the Trinity.


    Virgin Mary is the Theotokos. When Mary is mentioned in our Orthodox services, we use the title "all-holy, immaculate, most blessed and glorified lady, the Theotokos and ever-virgin Mary".

    http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/theotokos.aspx
    http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/evervirgin.aspx


    There are things in the NT which seem to indicate that Mary did not remain a virgin AFTER the birth of Jesus. In any case, there is nothing that I have seen in the NT to indicate that she did remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus. It is unclear why many people insist that she did remain a virgin.




    Virginity of Mary is part of the Early Holy tradition. Different Christian denomination hold different accounts of her life, however, most early ones (preserved in the apocrifical texts) suggest that Joseph was an old man and keeper of Mary. I.e. the intent for him was not to be Mary's husband per se, but rather her keeper. In the Gospel there is a passage that he "did not know her" until she gave birth to her first born. Same time such does not imply that marriage was physically consummated thereafter. If to explore the NT we will not find much evidence to Mary' ever virginity, however, as the Church interprets Daniel 2:34-35. In Greek and Slavonic translations the rendition, emphasis is not only on the rock that fall of the mountain as not cut by human hands, but to the very mountain that was not touch by human hands. Again, most of it is via exegesis and corresponding tradition, not direct NT narrative.

    Here are some links I found.
    http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3007.htm
    http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith9174
    http://www.antiochian.org/node/17079


    Any mention of brothers or sisters of Jesus can be explained as cousins or children of Joseph's but not with Mary. Something telling in the scriptures that tells me that Jesus had no brothers and sisters through Mary was that Mary was alone at the crucifixion. There is no mention of any other of her children with her when their brother is being executed. It would stand to reason anyone of us would be with our Mother during such an ordeal. Another telling thing is that Jesus from the cross tasks the apostle John with looking after His Mother. If Mary had any other biological children this would have been unnecessary.

    John 19:25-27
    25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.