Vaccines

  • interestingch...

    Posts: 694

    Jan 16, 2016 12:31 AM GMT
    In Australia recently, if you have not had your vaccinations from when you were born then you will not be able to have any child benefit or unemployment benefit even though you may need it to find a job and have previously been employed and paid into the state and entitled to it. That in my opinion is blackmail, the only reason this is happening is because the vaccines are a way to control the population, it is a well known fact that they cause autism, things have moved on and i'm sure is a way of controlling the population maybe by putting other viruses in the vaccines to shorten life, I expect the HIV virus was introduced this way and not by monkeys which is what we have been told.
    Is this happening in north America too?
    If I had children then I would refuse any vaccines for them, they could make their own minds up as adults when they turn 18. In the UK, as a parent they get hounded by the Dr's to get them done, the whole system is corrupt and things have to change, its all turning into a dictatorship and they have no right to force these things on you, that isn't democratic.
    I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on all this
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Jan 16, 2016 3:23 AM GMT

    I question where you get your information and how your brain processes information.

    If I had children then I would refuse any vaccines for them, they could make their own minds up as adults when they turn 18


    There aren't any words really. Please tell me you see the flaw in your logic?
  • interesting

    Posts: 577

    Jan 16, 2016 6:09 AM GMT
    interestingchap said.... That in my opinion is blackmail, the only reason this is happening is because the vaccines are a way to control the population, it is a well known fact that they cause autism, things have moved on and i'm sure is a way of controlling the population maybe by putting other viruses in the vaccines to shorten life, I expect the HIV virus was introduced this way and not by monkeys which is what we have been told.
    Is this happening in north America too?
    If I had children then I would refuse any vaccines for them, they could make their own minds up as adults when they turn 18.


    O M G

    I pray that anyone reading this doesn't automatically believe this! That is NOT a fact, that has been proven FALSE, the author who wrote the original paper for that, Andrew Wakefield, had been discredited!!

    Per CDC (and no, they're not the only agency that says that): Vaccines Do Not Cause Autism
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

    Polio, measles, and small pox (largely eradicated due to vaccines) because it spreads from human to human and children are no longer vaccinated for it, only small box that is, because they depend on herd immunity) are some of the worst diseases that have plagued the human race and have been subdued because of vaccines.

    And no, the HIV virus is not spread through vaccine, that is such a reach that I'm sure Pluto will be pulled closer to the sun than Earth any day now. I urge you if you do believe vaccines cause all these diseases, PLEASE READ journals and articles by accredited sources and EDUCATE yourself! Look at it this way, IF you do actually believe vaccines CAN cause autism (again, they do not), would you rather your child be autistic, or experience mumps, measles, rubella, and/or polio??

    Polio - no cure, only vaccines for prevention polio-kids.jpg

    Mumps images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS29q1uLRqJAju_tTQwts6

    Measles and Rubella images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS83vX-m3uxhTvZ8FzEOkw

    All of the above are preventable with vaccines. This is close to home for me, I had a cousin (who lived in third world country) that contracted polio because he wasn't vaccinated, he was eventually paralyzed at a young age and died in his 20s.
  • camfer

    Posts: 892

    Jan 16, 2016 2:42 PM GMT
    If the govenment wanted to shorten people's lives, they could spread a false rumor that vaccines cause autism. Then people would get diseases and die early because they didn't get vaccinated. icon_eek.gif
  • interestingch...

    Posts: 694

    Jan 16, 2016 5:47 PM GMT
    camfer saidIf the govenment wanted to shorten people's lives, they could spread a false rumor that vaccines cause autism. Then people would get diseases and die early because they didn't get vaccinated. icon_eek.gif


    More people get autism rather than Polio, as for the measles and mumps, they are by far not a problem, just a temporary illness, I had measles and mumps when I was a child and was absolutely fine, there is no need to vaccinate against them, in fact my parents took me to a friends house who's kids had measles so that I could catch it as a child because if you get it as an adult male, it can leave you infertile. Did me no harm whatsoever.
    Rubella is only a problem for pregnant women where it can cause a problem for the unborn child, it is pretty rare, my age group weren't vaccinated, only for polio which did no harm because it is only one vaccine.
    I know many people who are older who have had the flu vaccine and afterwards their health hasn't been the same since, some quite drastically. My mother was going to have it and I told her not to because of the side effects.
    As regards the many people having autism, it is a well known fact also that adults with social handicaps on the whole do not procreate hence keeping the numbers down because the powers that be think the world is over populated.
    If I had kids then I would only let them have the polio vaccine only.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jan 16, 2016 7:24 PM GMT
    interestingchap saidIn Australia recently, if you have not had your vaccinations from when you were born then you will not be able to have any child benefit or unemployment benefit even though you may need it to find a job and have previously been employed and paid into the state and entitled to it. That in my opinion is blackmail, the only reason this is happening is because the vaccines are a way to control the population, it is a well known fact that they cause autism, things have moved on and i'm sure is a way of controlling the population maybe by putting other viruses in the vaccines to shorten life, I expect the HIV virus was introduced this way and not by monkeys which is what we have been told.
    Is this happening in north America too?
    If I had children then I would refuse any vaccines for them, they could make their own minds up as adults when they turn 18. In the UK, as a parent they get hounded by the Dr's to get them done, the whole system is corrupt and things have to change, its all turning into a dictatorship and they have no right to force these things on you, that isn't democratic.
    I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on all this


    It is not blackmail!

    We've got to the point that the term "blackmail" is carelessly used for all forms of extortion. "Blackmail" is a special type of extortion based on the threat to reveal damaging information. Because "blackmail" is now used so carelessly, it has become difficult to point out actual blackmail.

    http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/white_collar_crimes/extortion_blackmail.htm

    From the link:

    "Blackmail, in contrast to extortion, is when the offender threatens to reveal information about a victim or his family members that is potentially embarrassing, socially damaging, or incriminating unless a demand for money, property, or services is met. Even if the information is true or actually incriminating, you can still be charged with blackmail if you threaten to reveal it unless the victim meets your demand."
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jan 16, 2016 7:32 PM GMT
    interesting said
    interestingchap said.... That in my opinion is blackmail, the only reason this is happening is because the vaccines are a way to control the population, it is a well known fact that they cause autism, things have moved on and i'm sure is a way of controlling the population maybe by putting other viruses in the vaccines to shorten life, I expect the HIV virus was introduced this way and not by monkeys which is what we have been told.
    Is this happening in north America too?
    If I had children then I would refuse any vaccines for them, they could make their own minds up as adults when they turn 18.


    O M G

    I pray that anyone reading this doesn't automatically believe this! That is NOT a fact, that has been proven FALSE, the author who wrote the original paper for that, Andrew Wakefield, had been discredited!!

    Per CDC (and no, they're not the only agency that says that): Vaccines Do Not Cause Autism
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

    Polio, measles, and small pox (largely eradicated due to vaccines) because it spreads from human to human and children are no longer vaccinated for it, only small box that is, because they depend on herd immunity) are some of the worst diseases that have plagued the human race and have been subdued because of vaccines.

    And no, the HIV virus is not spread through vaccine, that is such a reach that I'm sure Pluto will be pulled closer to the sun than Earth any day now. I urge you if you do believe vaccines cause all these diseases, PLEASE READ journals and articles by accredited sources and EDUCATE yourself! Look at it this way, IF you do actually believe vaccines CAN cause autism (again, they do not), would you rather your child be autistic, or experience mumps, measles, rubella, and/or polio??

    Polio - no cure, only vaccines for prevention polio-kids.jpg

    Mumps images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS29q1uLRqJAju_tTQwts6

    Measles and Rubella images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS83vX-m3uxhTvZ8FzEOkw

    All of the above are preventable with vaccines. This is close to home for me, I had a cousin (who lived in third world country) that contracted polio because he wasn't vaccinated, he was eventually paralyzed at a young age and died in his 20s.


    From your post:

    "Polio, measles, and small pox (largely eradicated due to vaccines) because it spreads from human to human and children are no longer vaccinated for it, only small box that is, because they depend on herd immunity) are some of the worst diseases that have plagued the human race and have been subdued because of vaccines."

    Right! And you have backed it up with good information.

    Just before I was due to enter the third grade in 1947, school opening was delayed in Manitowoc, WI, where we lived, because of a very serious polio epidemic. A neighbor's three year old daughter died of polio. My parents were scared to death. I was sent to suburban Baltimore to stay with my mother's sister until the polio epidemic subsided.

    One of the reasons that life expectancy increased so much during the 20th century was that vaccines to prevent many diseases became available. When Dr. Salk developed a vaccine for polio, he was rightly hailed as a hero because the vaccine quickly ended the annual scourge of polio.

    My brother, sister, and I all had measles, mumps, and chickenpox. We were fortunate; for us they were minor diseases and we weren't ever very sick. But for many children, there were long-term consequences. Now vaccines prevent those and other diseases.
  • interestingch...

    Posts: 694

    Jan 16, 2016 7:40 PM GMT
    in your view, what are the long term consequences from having those three viruses?
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jan 16, 2016 7:45 PM GMT
    interestingchap said
    camfer saidIf the govenment wanted to shorten people's lives, they could spread a false rumor that vaccines cause autism. Then people would get diseases and die early because they didn't get vaccinated. icon_eek.gif


    More people get autism rather than Polio, as for the measles and mumps, they are by far not a problem, just a temporary illness, I had measles and mumps when I was a child and was absolutely fine, there is no need to vaccinate against them, in fact my parents took me to a friends house who's kids had measles so that I could catch it as a child because if you get it as an adult male, it can leave you infertile. Did me no harm whatsoever.
    Rubella is only a problem for pregnant women where it can cause a problem for the unborn child, it is pretty rare, my age group weren't vaccinated, only for polio which did no harm because it is only one vaccine.
    I know many people who are older who have had the flu vaccine and afterwards their health hasn't been the same since, some quite drastically. My mother was going to have it and I told her not to because of the side effects.
    As regards the many people having autism, it is a well known fact also that adults with social handicaps on the whole do not procreate hence keeping the numbers down because the powers that be think the world is over populated.
    If I had kids then I would only let them have the polio vaccine only.


    Like me and my siblings, you got measles and mumps and were perfectly fine. Apparently you are unaware that people are not all the same. Some children die from measles. Mumps sometimes causes sterility. Other diseases can also be very serious.

    If you want to see what whooping cough/ pertussis does, check out this youtube of an infant girl with whooping cough in intensive care:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3oZrMGDMMw

  • interestingch...

    Posts: 694

    Jan 16, 2016 7:53 PM GMT
    I'm not trying to pick an argument but maybe there were other complications for that to happen like severe asthma for instance.
    The drugs companies want everyone to have them because they make a lot of money off them, business is business and all that
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    Jan 16, 2016 8:03 PM GMT
    People get polio, measles, and mumps because of being unhealthy or living in unhealthy circumstances, not because of being deprived of a vaccine. Yes vaccines are good in specific instances where people cannot pinpoint what is causing the illness, but ideally it is better to have more education about health, and living in an environment free of pollution and toxins, in order to prevent diseases.

    I'm for vaccines in extreme situations/regions and against it when there are other means of preserving health; overall I don't think we should rely on this method as much as we do, as it is common sense that injecting anything into the bloodstream of a newborn is not sensible nor completely safe.
  • interestingch...

    Posts: 694

    Jan 16, 2016 8:14 PM GMT
    TO23 saidPeople get polio, measles, and mumps because of being unhealthy or living in unhealthy circumstances, not because of being deprived of a vaccine. Yes vaccines are good in specific instances where people cannot pinpoint what is causing the illness, but ideally it is better to have more education about health, and living in an environment free of pollution and toxins, in order to prevent diseases.

    I'm for vaccines in extreme situations/regions and against it when there are other means of preserving health; overall I don't think we should rely on this method as much as we do, as it is common sense that injecting anything into the bloodstream of a newborn is not sensible nor completely safe.


    Measles and mumps are just a fairly harmless virus of which I had both as a child, its got nothing to do with being unhealthy, you can catch them just like a cold or flu.
    Apart from that I kinda agree to the rest of it depending on the circumstances.
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    Jan 16, 2016 8:32 PM GMT
    With those diseases, like so many, the threat isn't necessarily to average people-- it's to babies and the elderly and the immune-suppressed. HIV and cancer patients, etc. Fine, you don't die from pertussis, but your neighbor's baby outright dies from it. That's why this is a PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE.
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    Jan 16, 2016 10:38 PM GMT
    Your facts are not credible to support. I hear a concern, but again the 'data' to support your claim is NOT there. I am for prevention, and also the other million of parents that send their schools for its children not to be exposed or inherit a disease because a child is not vaccinated, but we have parents who have bought into the hysteria. I have a friend that has told me that he would NOT vaccinate his 3 children because he believes this. I told him the contrary and he notes this is what they are planning to do.

    So also recently, Priscila Zuckerberg, Pediatrician, and wife of Mark Z. of Facebook noted they will go ahead with vaccinations for their daughter- so if she as a doctor and also with immense influence to get information about this issue believed in your premise, we would have heard it differently not to vaccinate, but she as a doctor does not believe your premise.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/01/11/mark-zuckerberg-angers-anti-vaxxers-with-photo-of-baby-at-doctors-office-getting-vaccinations/

  • Beastmode

    Posts: 213

    Jan 16, 2016 11:05 PM GMT
    Interesting view.
    So the cowpox vs smallpox story is a lie?
    So the decimation of the new world from diseases brought in by the conquistadors was also a lie?

    yes there have been occasions that vaccinations have had an adverse effect on an individual but choosing not to is irresponsible and a hazard to the greater community. Superbugs anyone??
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jan 16, 2016 11:22 PM GMT
    " it is a well known fact that they cause autism, things have moved on and i'm sure is a way of controlling the population maybe by putting other viruses in the vaccines to shorten life. I expect the HIV virus was introduced this way"
    _________________________________________
    Actually, it is a well known fact that vaccinations do NOT cause autism.
    When I was in grade school, all children were lined up and given numerous vaccinations. NOT ONE contracted autism. NOT ONE.

    If the HIV virus was introduced through vaccinations, why did HIV hit an infinitely larger portion of gay males than lesbians ?

    Conspiracy theorists are risking the health and the lives of their children by refusing to vaccinate against completely preventable diseases.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 17, 2016 12:46 AM GMT
    I'm having a laugh with you guys trying to discuss this rationally and logically with these types of thinkers. About as fruitful as a discussion about believing in god versus atheism.
    icon_rolleyes.gif
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Jan 17, 2016 12:52 AM GMT
    I'm having a laugh with you guys trying to discuss this rationally and logically with these types of thinkers. About as fruitful as a discussion about believing in god versus atheism


    That's how i felt about having a discussion with you about the dangers of cooking oils. In my eyes, you're only slightly less unhinged than him. icon_smile.gif


    I do agree though, that it is fruitless but it's just so satisfying to dwell in righteous correctitude. I think it feels like you're on your way to accomplishing something :"i know this last point cannot be refuted!" Only to have them shoot back some idiocy. It's a good exercise in anger management at the very least, if you can engage without becoming utterly despaired with humanity.

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    Jan 17, 2016 2:17 AM GMT
    interestingchap saidI'm not trying to pick an argument but maybe there were other complications for that to happen like severe asthma for instance.
    The drugs companies want everyone to have them because they make a lot of money off them, business is business and all that


    Too late! You already did that with your first post.
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    Jan 17, 2016 4:45 AM GMT
    In California, parents cannot enroll their children in public school unless they've been vaccinated. *applause*
  • interestingch...

    Posts: 694

    Jan 17, 2016 2:12 PM GMT
    xrichx saidIn California, parents cannot enroll their children in public school unless they've been vaccinated. *applause*


    So if one or two kids haven't been vaccinated but the others have then there isn't any danger for the ones that have and only a possible danger to the ones that haven't, what is the point then of banning the children who haven't if there is no danger to the others, its all a load of bull to my thinking and another way to control people and that is all getting worse, if you choose not to vaccinate, then that is the risk you take, there isn't any reason for the schools to make the parents sign a waiver to release responsibility, what is the harm in that, that is a democratic decision.
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    Jan 17, 2016 7:55 PM GMT
    Unfortunately there isn't a vaccine for stupidity.
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    Jan 18, 2016 1:20 AM GMT
    interestingchap said
    xrichx saidIn California, parents cannot enroll their children in public school unless they've been vaccinated. *applause*


    So if one or two kids haven't been vaccinated but the others have then there isn't any danger for the ones that have and only a possible danger to the ones that haven't, what is the point then of banning the children who haven't if there is no danger to the others, its all a load of bull to my thinking and another way to control people and that is all getting worse, if you choose not to vaccinate, then that is the risk you take, there isn't any reason for the schools to make the parents sign a waiver to release responsibility, what is the harm in that, that is a democratic decision.

    Problem is easily solved. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, take them to private school or home school them.
  • interestingch...

    Posts: 694

    Jan 18, 2016 7:33 PM GMT
    xrichx said
    interestingchap said
    xrichx saidIn California, parents cannot enroll their children in public school unless they've been vaccinated. *applause*


    So if one or two kids haven't been vaccinated but the others have then there isn't any danger for the ones that have and only a possible danger to the ones that haven't, what is the point then of banning the children who haven't if there is no danger to the others, its all a load of bull to my thinking and another way to control people and that is all getting worse, if you choose not to vaccinate, then that is the risk you take, there isn't any reason for the schools to make the parents sign a waiver to release responsibility, what is the harm in that, that is a democratic decision.

    Problem is easily solved. If you don't want to vaccinate your kids, take them to private school or home school them.


    Thats ok if you can either afford financially or the time to do that, not everyone can, but at least there is that option.
  • Unnamed6

    Posts: 1149

    Jan 23, 2016 1:54 AM GMT
    interestingchap saidIn Australia recently, if you have not had your vaccinations from when you were born then you will not be able to have any child benefit or unemployment benefit even though you may need it to find a job and have previously been employed and paid into the state and entitled to it. That in my opinion is blackmail, the only reason this is happening is because the vaccines are a way to control the population, it is a well known fact that they cause autism, things have moved on and i'm sure is a way of controlling the population maybe by putting other viruses in the vaccines to shorten life, I expect the HIV virus was introduced this way and not by monkeys which is what we have been told.
    Is this happening in north America too?
    If I had children then I would refuse any vaccines for them, they could make their own minds up as adults when they turn 18. In the UK, as a parent they get hounded by the Dr's to get them done, the whole system is corrupt and things have to change, its all turning into a dictatorship and they have no right to force these things on you, that isn't democratic.
    I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on all this


    Luc Montagnier, Winner of the 2008 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for the discovery of HIV on HIV:



    on Autism:

    "My position on vaccines has not changed over the last 30 years: the principle has proved to be excellent in the past. Smallpox has been eradicated in the world thanks to the use of vaccination, with attenuated vaccinia virus. But some had to pay a horrific price : encephalitis in a certain number of children. Over the years, vaccinations against bacteria and viruses have multiplied, appearing as the most cost-effective way to prevent epidemics. However, side effects are becoming more important and a single death cannot be tolerated any longer. Many parents have observed a temporal association - which does not mean causation - between a vaccination by puncture and the appearance of autism symptoms. This should not be neglected by the medical community and public health decision makers. It is therefore of prime importance to study the risk factors, both environmental and genetic, which could be involved in order to prevent them. Presumably, vaccination, especially vaccination against multiple antigens, could be a trigger of a pre-existing pathological situation in some children.

    http://montagnier.org/HIV-Autism-Vaccines
    "