Breaking: Largest Psychological Association Could Condemn HIV Criminalization Laws

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 18, 2016 2:33 AM GMT
    http://www.hivequal.org/hiv-equal-online/breaking-largest-psychological-association-could-condemn-hiv-criminalization-laws

    The reasoning is simple. The arcane laws, which are a throwback to the 1980s and 1990s when little was known about transmission of the disease, have become increasingly unjust with the advancement of modern medicine. It is almost statistically impossible for people with HIV who have undetectable viral loads to pass the disease along to others even during sex without a condom.

    In a move that gay history now looks upon as heroic and emancipating, it was the APA who in1973 declassified homosexuality as a mental illness, paving the way for the freedoms and equality gay people today hold dear.

    Reportage of HIV in the mainstream media has become increasingly sensational, with at least a dozen reports nationwide per month focusing on the criminalization laws, often in ways that demonize people with HIV.

    National reporting of HIV issues has become so poor that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently granted the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association $130,000 to assist in training the news media about reporting on the disease in the 21st century.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 18, 2016 6:59 PM GMT
    Speaking not just as a former prosecutor, but as an HIV- gay man, I urge the APA to stay out of criminal law issues, an area removed from its expertise. These laws do serve purposes, deterrent as well as punitive - and yes, the latter is a valid reason for law enforcement - particularly in the case of criminals who knowingly and willingly infect others with HIV. Yes, they do exist; recall the dangerously absurd movement in SF in the '80s and '90s that urged HIV+ men to "give the gift of AIDS," purportedly in order to "educate the community and increase understanding." (The archives of the Bay Area Reporter contain the actual stories documenting this demonic drive.) Without these laws, such people would be enabled to infect at will and w/o fear of being brought to justice for doing so. And, if the laws needn't be used, they won't be; no rational prosecutor brings a case w/o a likelihood of conviction. Keep 'em on the books, I say!

    And speaking of books, I'd love to see an audit showing exactly how the $130K that the CDC gave to the NLGJA was [mis]spent "to assist in training the news media about reporting on the disease in the 21st century." No doubt at least some of that money will be spent urging repeal of these laws, if not ending up in certain Democrats' campaign funds, in however roundabout a way. A very poor use of our tax dollars indeed!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 18, 2016 8:40 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidSpeaking not just as a former prosecutor, but as an HIV- gay man, I urge the APA to stay out of criminal law issues, an area removed from its expertise. These laws do serve purposes, deterrent as well as punitive - and yes, the latter is a valid reason for law enforcement - particularly in the case of criminals who knowingly and willingly infect others with HIV. Yes, they do exist; recall the dangerously absurd movement in SF in the '80s and '90s that urged HIV+ men to "give the gift of AIDS," purportedly in order to "educate the community and increase understanding." (The archives of the Bay Area Reporter contain the actual stories documenting this demonic drive.) Without these laws, such people would be enabled to infect at will and w/o fear of being brought to justice for doing so. And, if the laws needn't be used, they won't be; no rational prosecutor brings a case w/o a likelihood of conviction. Keep 'em on the books, I say!

    And speaking of books, I'd love to see an audit showing exactly how the $130K that the CDC gave to the NLGJA was [mis]spent "to assist in training the news media about reporting on the disease in the 21st century." No doubt at least some of that money will be spent urging repeal of these laws, if not ending up in certain Democrats' campaign funds, in however roundabout a way. A very poor use of our tax dollars indeed!


    Did you miss: " He said the document would “align APA’s policy on criminalization with that of the best practices documented by The Department of Justice and the CDC issued, in July of last year.”

    Since you put in quotes this "demonic drive" without a source I looked it up. Nothing. Even if there was such a drive in the 80's what does that have to do with ART...Treatment as PREVENTION in 2016? It is totally the opposite. HIV people are not the 'bad guy' as you are implying. Being Undetectable is part of the solution, not part of the problem. It renders "gift givers" AND "bug chasers" moot.

    But placing the current POZ/Undetectable people on the same plane as witchcraft is stigmatizing. And ignorant. Every case where someone has intentionally infected someone can be tried and convicted with other crimes....other than being HIV positive.

    Look up "HIV is not a Crime". If you look it up you will understand that stigma is the greatest hurdle to ending HIV. If you don't know your are POZ you can't be convicted of "knowingly" infecting someone. Stigma is the domain of American Psychological Association. The CDC recognizes the importance of psychology in treatment.

    Only you could connect this to a Democratic campaign fund.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 18, 2016 10:33 PM GMT
    CDC + USDOJ =/= the states' DOJs. Prosecution of crimes like this is left to the states, unless a federal statute exists, which could only be grounded on some federal interest. I suppose the ever-expanding Commerce Clause or health, safety and welfare of the people could justify such a federal law, but I'm not aware of any one being passed. So much for that.

    The BAR's online archives only go back to 2005, so you're not going to find anything online, and "demonic drive" - garbage in, garbage out?; cf. demonic drivel - is not about to yield anything, other than a reference to some interesting Japanese anime. The relevant search terms would be "gift of AIDS/HIV" , and you might add "San Francisco Act-Up!" to refine any results. You can believe me or not as you will; for people like me who lived in SF during this time, this episode, and others from the same crew and era, were well known at the time and will be only too familiar in review.

    I DK what ART you're referring to, but it's another red herring to note that "HIV is not a Crime;" the issue is its willful, knowing transmission by bad HIV+ people, NOT - de-cue the AIDS cliches, please! - gay "bad guys." You conflate what I did not, and then hyperbolize it by comparing criminal liability for willful, knowing transmission to "witchcraft," another tiresome cliche that twists the context. And again, merely "being HIV+" is NOT and shouldn't be a crime; willfully and knowingly infecting others is and should remain one. People who think rationally, the only ones I want to be making criminal justice and public health policy, can separate the two; why can't you? Those thoughts should include the fact that while we have learned much about AIDS since 1981, we still don't know all we can about it, but learned early on that it's ability to mutate was one of its one of its most defining - and chilling - characteristics.

    But you do end on a proper note: perhaps only I and people who look beyond facades can see a potential political connection here. Would you end inquiry into that as well?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 19, 2016 12:54 AM GMT
    MGINSD saidCDC + USDOJ =/= the states' DOJs. Prosecution of crimes like this is left to the states, unless a federal statute exists, which could only be grounded on some federal interest. I suppose the ever-expanding Commerce Clause or health, safety and welfare of the people could justify such a federal law, but I'm not aware of any one being passed. So much for that.

    The BAR's online archives only go back to 2005, so you're not going to find anything online, and "demonic drive" - garbage in, garbage out?; cf. demonic drivel - is not about to yield anything, other than a reference to some interesting Japanese anime. The relevant search terms would be "gift of AIDS/HIV" , and you might add "San Francisco Act-Up!" to refine any results. You can believe me or not as you will; for people like me who lived in SF during this time, this episode, and others from the same crew and era, were well known at the time and will be only too familiar in review.

    I DK what ART you're referring to, but it's another red herring to note that "HIV is not a Crime;" the issue is its willful, knowing transmission by bad HIV+ people, NOT - de-cue the AIDS cliches, please! - gay "bad guys." You conflate what I did not, and then hyperbolize it by comparing criminal liability for willful, knowing transmission to "witchcraft," another tiresome cliche that twists the context. And again, merely "being HIV+" is NOT and shouldn't be a crime; willfully and knowingly infecting others is and should remain one. People who think rationally, the only ones I want to be making criminal justice and public health policy, can separate the two; why can't you? Those thoughts should include the fact that while we have learned much about AIDS since 1981, we still don't know all we can about it, but learned early on that it's ability to mutate was one of its one of its most defining - and chilling - characteristics.

    But you do end on a proper note: perhaps only I and people who look beyond facades can see a potential political connection here. Would you end inquiry into that as well?


    What you are in favor of, keeping antiquated HIV laws in place, makes HIV a crime.

    "In reality, as the Department of Justice notes, “many of these state laws criminalize behaviors that the CDC regards as posing either no or negligible risk for HIV transmission even in the absence of risk reduction measures.”

    https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/hiv-not-crime

    You need to familiarize yourself with Rhoades vs Iowa. he was sentenced to prison for 25 years. He DID NOT transmit HIV. So when you say "but it's another red herring to note that "HIV is not a Crime;" the issue is its willful, knowing transmission by bad HIV+ people." You obviously do not understand the problem.

    We applaud the Court for applying the law in light of current medical understanding of how HIV is and is not transmitted,” Clark said. “An individual who takes precautions to prevent transmission should not be considered a criminal for choosing to be sexually active, and we are very pleased that the Court agrees.” - See more at: http://www.washingtonblade.com/2014/06/13/iowa-high-court-reverses-conviction-hiv-criminalization-case/#sthash.TA0dh7ec.dpuf

    If anything is a red herring it's your "demonic drive". It's sensationalizing at it's core. It has nothing to do with ART (HAART if you need to look it up). You are hyperbolizing HIV. When undetectable there is no HIV transmission. To imply a questionable fad like "gifting" or "bug chasing" has anything to do with the criminalizing of innocent POZ/Undetectable shows a fundamental ignorance.

    The CDC, DOJ and APA are not connected to any political party. You sound like a Left Wing conspiracy nut.
  • waccamatt

    Posts: 1918

    Jan 20, 2016 6:10 AM GMT
    MGINSD saidSpeaking not just as a former prosecutor, but as an HIV- gay man, I urge the APA to stay out of criminal law issues, an area removed from its expertise. These laws do serve purposes, deterrent as well as punitive - and yes, the latter is a valid reason for law enforcement - particularly in the case of criminals who knowingly and willingly infect others with HIV. Yes, they do exist; recall the dangerously absurd movement in SF in the '80s and '90s that urged HIV+ men to "give the gift of AIDS," purportedly in order to "educate the community and increase understanding." (The archives of the Bay Area Reporter contain the actual stories documenting this demonic drive.) Without these laws, such people would be enabled to infect at will and w/o fear of being brought to justice for doing so. And, if the laws needn't be used, they won't be; no rational prosecutor brings a case w/o a likelihood of conviction. Keep 'em on the books, I say!

    And speaking of books, I'd love to see an audit showing exactly how the $130K that the CDC gave to the NLGJA was [mis]spent "to assist in training the news media about reporting on the disease in the 21st century." No doubt at least some of that money will be spent urging repeal of these laws, if not ending up in certain Democrats' campaign funds, in however roundabout a way. A very poor use of our tax dollars indeed!


    One main factor you've neglected to think about is that punitive laws likely keep many people from being tested in the first place.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 21, 2016 12:57 AM GMT
    waccamatt said
    One main factor you've neglected to think about is that punitive laws likely keep many people from being tested in the first place.

    Precisely. This has already been demonstrated by laws enacted in the early days of the AIDS crisis that required health departments and care providers to report all HIV positive tests. Outcome? Guys wouldn't come forward to get tested, and therefore unknowingly continued to spread the virus.

    Health experts objected to this counter-productive approach, but the decision was made by medically unqualified politicians (you can guess of which persuasion). HIV only spread more, and little was reported to State authorities.

    Except for AIDS when treatment was finally required. So the outcome was more infection and death, and more public money spent on treatment, more medical resources tied up.

    Health issues should never be solely in the hands of politicians, to serve their own ideological agendas. We also see this with women's health & reproductive issues.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2016 8:14 PM GMT
    waccamatt said
    MGINSD saidSpeaking not just as a former prosecutor, but as an HIV- gay man, I urge the APA to stay out of criminal law issues, an area removed from its expertise. These laws do serve purposes, deterrent as well as punitive - and yes, the latter is a valid reason for law enforcement - particularly in the case of criminals who knowingly and willingly infect others with HIV. Yes, they do exist; recall the dangerously absurd movement in SF in the '80s and '90s that urged HIV+ men to "give the gift of AIDS," purportedly in order to "educate the community and increase understanding." (The archives of the Bay Area Reporter contain the actual stories documenting this demonic drive.) Without these laws, such people would be enabled to infect at will and w/o fear of being brought to justice for doing so. And, if the laws needn't be used, they won't be; no rational prosecutor brings a case w/o a likelihood of conviction. Keep 'em on the books, I say!

    And speaking of books, I'd love to see an audit showing exactly how the $130K that the CDC gave to the NLGJA was [mis]spent "to assist in training the news media about reporting on the disease in the 21st century." No doubt at least some of that money will be spent urging repeal of these laws, if not ending up in certain Democrats' campaign funds, in however roundabout a way. A very poor use of our tax dollars indeed!


    One main factor you've neglected to think about is that punitive laws likely keep many people from being tested in the first place.


    When MGINSD says "A very poor use of our tax dollars indeed!" he is totally off base. The law created a stigma so people wouldn't GET tested. The CDC contributing to APA tries to get to the root of HIV stigma....so everyone gets tested.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2016 8:28 PM GMT
    No, not at all. According to the article, the $130K was given "to assist in training the news media about reporting on the disease in the 21st century," not "so everyone gets tested." And, it was given to a bunch of gay journalists, NOT the APA. To whomever it was given, I'd like to see an accounting of exactly how it was given and spent. What's wrong with demanding accountability in governmental spending, whatever the issue or expense? It's the taxpayers' money after all.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2016 10:36 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidNo, not at all. According to the article, the $130K was given "to assist in training the news media about reporting on the disease in the 21st century," not "so everyone gets tested." And, it was given to a bunch of gay journalists, NOT the APA. To whomever it was given, I'd like to see an accounting of exactly how it was given and spent. What's wrong with demanding accountability in governmental spending, whatever the issue or expense? It's the taxpayers' money after all.


    NLGJA

    Founded in 1990, NLGJA is an organization of journalists, media professionals, educators and students working from within the news industry to foster fair and accurate coverage of LGBT issues. NLGJA opposes all forms of workplace bias and provides professional development to its members.

    "With the grant to NLGJA, $130,000 in the first year through fall 2016, the association of LGBT journalists will provide a series of in-person and web-based trainings, fellowships and specially designed online resources.

    These will equip journalists to cover issues and trends related to HIV/AIDS in new ways while reiterating the time-tested basics of talking, testing and treatment. These journalists in turn can better serve their viewers, readers and listeners with important information, especially those in communities and geographic areas most impacted by HIV/AIDS."

    CDC recommends that everyone between the ages of 13 and 64 get tested for HIV at least once as part of routine health care. About 1 in 8 people in the United States who have HIV don’t know they have it.



    In the fight against HIV, stigma and complacency are among our most insidious opponents," said Dr. Kevin Fenton, director of CDC's National Center for HIV/AIDS, Viral Hepatitis, STD and TB Prevention. "


    So yes, testing is the cornerstone for ending HIV/AIDS. And Stigma IS an insidious opponent. And much of that is presented in the media.

    God you are so fucking stupid. Maybe the CDC would give grants to a Republican Pro-Gay organization.....BUT THERE AREN'T ANY!!!!!!! I would guess most members of NLGJA are Democrats, but that doesn't make it political.

    Fox News and homosexuality


    Currently, the Fox Broadcasting Company website declares concerning the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association (NLGJA):
    “ NLGJA Annual Conference and Job Fair

    Fox News is a regular exhibitor at these annual Job Fairs. News Corp sponsored the opening reception for first time attendees in 2006, as well as sponsoring workshops on Journalism in various colleges in 2007.[1]


    In 2006, Peter LaBarbera of Americans For Truth wrote that "Fox News and Wal-mart are among the high-level ($10,000) sponsors of the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association’s (NLGJA) 2006 Convention in Miami."[2] In 2010, the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association reported that Kelly Wright, a Fox News Channel representative, attended NLGJA's 15th Annual New York Benefit.[3]

    Even FOX is more logical than you!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 23, 2016 10:48 PM GMT
    http://www.nlgja.org/

    Look them up, they do a lot of good for the entire gay community.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 24, 2016 1:41 AM GMT
    timmm55 saidhttp://www.nlgja.org/

    Look them up, they do a lot of good for the entire gay community.

    No need to look them up; I've been to several of their early conventions. Does the name Randy Shilts ring a bell? I attended the first one with him. You, however, need to pay attention to those remedial reading comprehension and writing classes I mentioned. A course or 12 in logic wouldn't hurt, either. In a nutshell: stop deflecting, don't rewrite what others write, and frame your responses accordingly, not how you "feel."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 24, 2016 7:28 PM GMT
    MGINSD said
    timmm55 saidhttp://www.nlgja.org/

    Look them up, they do a lot of good for the entire gay community.

    No need to look them up; I've been to several of their early conventions. Does the name Randy Shilts ring a bell? I attended the first one with him. You, however, need to pay attention to those remedial reading comprehension and writing classes I mentioned. A course or 12 in logic wouldn't hurt, either. In a nutshell: stop deflecting, don't rewrite what others write, and frame your responses accordingly, not how you "feel."


    You can't seem to comprehend the paradigm shift in HIV science/law that is occurring.

    You don't feel the need to look them up, because you went to a meetin 25 years ago? How open minded you must be! If you looked at the site, you'd see they have a Randy Shilts award.
    (An aside, "Patient Zero" was a fictionalization of a real person, insisted on by the publisher. A gross misrepresentation of how AIDS came to North America. A good read, but lousy science and journalism. What it did for HIV criminalization can not be underestimated. http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/05/06/aids_the_truth_about_patient_zero.html

    Your bluster about my need for a course in logic/comprehension is as illogical as you are. YOU can't comprehend the CDC, DOJ or anyone who disagrees with YOU. Change is coming, it has happened already in Iowa, CA and NY. You are an anachronism.

    Prosecutors, DAs and police think they need every law available to them. And losing even an arcane law prevents them from doing their job. It doesn't. It prevents over zealous courts from convicting innocent people of unjust laws.

    In Loving vs Virginia, a police man arrested them, a prosecutor convicting them of ""miscegenation" laws and a judge said: " "Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents.... The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 25, 2016 12:31 AM GMT
    Yes, your skills in logic and committing it to writing are truly magnificent. Go put on a jumper; your paradigm shift is showing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 25, 2016 2:00 AM GMT
    MGINSD saidYes, your skills in logic and committing it to writing are truly magnificent. Go put on a jumper; your paradigm shift is showing.


    I doubt you were even in law.