JESUS FREAKS?

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    Feb 05, 2009 5:59 PM GMT
    How much do religious or spiritual beliefs play a role in who you choose to date or share a long term relationship with? Additionally, what do you believe in, or not believe in?

    I believe there's a God or supreme creative force - whatever name you want to give it/him/her. I also think everything happens for a reason and there is some sort of supernatural, unseen world that we all return to when we die. Even in this chaotic world there is still perfection and order in everything. Other than that I think you should just try to be a good person, give back whenever and whatever you can, and don't sweat the small stuff. I think as time goes on religion will have less of a place in our world and we will start to recognize more universal truths.

    I don't think I could ever be with a guy who is fundamental about any religious belief. I was raised Catholic and that was enough for me haha. I am respectful of another person's beliefs, but I don't want anyone trying to 'convert' me. Could you ever be with someone who really has no spiritual beliefs at all?span>
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    Feb 05, 2009 6:58 PM GMT
    Religion isn't even something worth talking about.

    If I dated someone who was an absolute jesus freak I'd just ask them to keep comments related to Xenu/God to himself. It's not worth discussing. I'm not dating people based off their devotion or faith.

    Um.. and in answer to your last question... of course even an atheist should answer that yes there could be something else out there aside from humans. But the only intelligent answer is: Lacking any evidence or reason for a God like entity then belief in God is pretty much just a self serving bedtime story to comfort people against the unknown icon_cool.gif
  • Little_Spoon

    Posts: 1562

    Feb 05, 2009 7:17 PM GMT
    I was raised on Christian beliefs, but the Church itself doesn't seem that smart.
    Like the rules on Homosexuality weren't ever spoken or declared by God through a individual. They were part of Hebrew law that was put into Leviticus.

    ...the Church is dumb sometimes.

    So basically I believe in God, I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins. I don't believe the Bible should be used as a weapon or propaganda for hate. I believe people need to look into what they believe and decided for themselves what's right in wrong, instead of letting the collection that is the Church decided for them.

    Believing in God isn't as blind of a faith as people make it out to be. You have to understand what you're doing. Especially if you're committing hate crimes. (and I suspect those people who gay bash and commit acts of genocide in the name of God aren't understanding very well.)
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    Feb 05, 2009 7:21 PM GMT
    lawguy920 saidEven an atheist is proclaiming to have considered the notion of something greater than us being in existence.
    Which atheist was that? That's like saying, "Even my mom thinks I'm cool. And SHE's the least biased person I know."
  • metta

    Posts: 39149

    Feb 05, 2009 7:28 PM GMT
    I'm agnostic. My best friend used to tell me that I was one of the most spiritual people that he had ever met. I think that had more to do with living what I believe. If I see that my choices are causing unnecessary harm to other living things, the environment and myself, I try not to do them: which is why I'm a vegetarian, for example.

    I really could not see myself dating someone that has any type of extreme religious views that would support causing harm to others or themselves for that matter. But someone with extreme views is probably not going to be interested in me in the first place. I try to find some kind of balance in everything that I do that will work for me, which is why I don't eat just raw foods, I'm not a vegan, and I don't eat meat.

    I just saw a short clip on the news yesterdays of a local poll in Los Angeles county that showed that a difference in religion was not a big issue for them. The biggest and most important issue in the poll actually turned out to be different political parties. I found that to be very interesting, especially since I know married couple that are in successful married relationships that belong to opposite political parties and they are both very involved in their parties.
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    Feb 05, 2009 7:32 PM GMT
    I am dead against religion...

    a great read... "god is not great' - how religion poisons everything.. by christopher hitchens

    it sums it all up well .. well for me it does.



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    Feb 05, 2009 7:36 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    lawguy920 saidEven an atheist is proclaiming to have considered the notion of something greater than us being in existence.
    Which atheist was that? That's like saying, "Even my mom thinks I'm cool. And SHE's the least biased person I know."


    I don't think the logic used in your statement follows what I was trying to get at. What I meant is, for someone to even say they are an atheist, they would first have had to consider whether they believe there is actually a god. Simply posing the question to yourself of whether there is or is not a god has a spiritual dimension to it - whether you come out on the other side as an atheist or a believer.
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    Feb 05, 2009 7:43 PM GMT
    I'm Catholic and gay, I always have been Catholic and gay, and I have always loved being Catholic and gay. I studied for the priesthood for a couple of years, and I have a degree in Theology and currently work for a Catholic church in Chicago. I know all the subtle nuances of my faith--rooted in my relationship with God---and those go beyond just that "the church says gays can't have sex."

    If I claim that my faith is the most important thing in my life, which it is, then I don't dare do these things:
    1) Fool myself into thinking that someone who mocks my faith is going to be a good partner. That's a red flag.
    2)Presume to try to convert anyone. God's relationship with everyone is different. Far be it from me to dictate to anyone what is is/should be. I know that my beliefs don't need to be defended, and they shoudl certainly never attack...however they ALWAYS need to be clarified!

    I need support in all aspects of my life. I want support spiritually, emotionally, and with regards to my physical health. It's about a holistic relationship for me.

    What's I find difficult is when people who don't know anything about my faith criticize it from what they think is an educated viewpoint. For example, my last boyfriend, who declared that "organized religion is bullshit." He like most people, used some example like the crusades or something to justify his statement, but like monst of us, he had the actions/sins/wrongdoings of human beings mixed up with my actual faith.

    Funny how we accept all sorts of ignorant/eneducated statements bashing various religions. It's the same error to say "everyone of the Islamic faith is a terrorist." People actually believe that, you know...and people still believe that people of African descent are not really human. And in a great majority of the world, people still do not have religious liberty. So before we try to achieve freedom from religion, let's remember that we are lucky enough to have freedom of religion.

    PS--the church I work at in Chicago is Catholic, and we say we are a community where ALL are welcome...and we MEAN it!icon_biggrin.gif
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    Feb 05, 2009 8:12 PM GMT
    cat
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    Feb 05, 2009 8:31 PM GMT
    lawguy920 saidHow much do religious or spiritual beliefs play a role in who you choose to date or share a long term relationship with? Additionally, what do you believe in, or not believe in?

    I believe there's a God or supreme creative force - whatever name you want to give it/him/her. I also think everything happens for a reason and there is some sort of supernatural, unseen world that we all return to when we die. Even in this chaotic world there is still perfection and order in everything. Other than that I think you should just try to be a good person, give back whenever and whatever you can, and don't sweat the small stuff. I think as time goes on religion will have less of a place in our world and we will start to recognize more universal truths.

    I don't think I could ever be with a guy who is fundamental about any religious belief. I was raised Catholic and that was enough for me haha. I am respectful of another person's beliefs, but I don't want anyone trying to 'convert' me. Could you ever be with someone who really has no spiritual beliefs at all....do people like that even exist? Even an atheist is proclaiming to have considered the notion of something greater than us being in existence.


    I was dumped once because of the religious affiliations of my family even though I'm pretty much completely atheistic and it had nothing to do with beliefs just Oh I'm a ****** and I was raised not to associate with ******. He was a jerk any way and I was planning on breaking up with him and this way I didn't have to. Any long term relationships it was just never a big deal, like religion, so what there are a thousand more interesting things to talk about

    I believe religion is a negative force in modern society, that any benefit obtained from it is eclipsed by it's negative effects. Of course aesthetics have studied and considered religions at great length and I've considered them and chosen what I believe to be true. That there is no god/spiritual being

    PS I love you're thread titleicon_razz.gif

    I could be wrong as I have about many things but this is what I chose to believe
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    Feb 05, 2009 8:40 PM GMT
    lawguy920 saidI don't think the logic used in your statement follows what I was trying to get at. What I meant is...
    Oh, I believe the logic of my statement probably has NOTHING to do with what you meant, but that's the beauty of good writing: you don't have to go back and clarify something you were "trying to get at."

    Most properly, your response to me should begin with, "I apologize for my lack of clarity...what I meant was..." and then don't attempt to deconstruct the logic of my response.
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    Feb 05, 2009 8:41 PM GMT
    I don't talk about my personal spiritual beliefs. It is between me and myself. I won't attend a church and it's a rare occasion that I will attend any type of religious ceremony. I do believe that what you believe in is personal. Too many bad things happen when a group of religious (not spiritual) people come together. Religious does not equal spiritual.
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    Feb 05, 2009 8:42 PM GMT
    lawguy920 said
    I don't think the logic used in your statement follows what I was trying to get at. What I meant is, for someone to even say they are an atheist, they would first have had to consider whether they believe there is actually a god. Simply posing the question to yourself of whether there is or is not a god has a spiritual dimension to it - whether you come out on the other side as an atheist or a believer.


    The popular assumption is that atheism is a kind of "belief" in itself isn't exactly correct icon_confused.gif

    Honestly I don't even like the word atheist. It sounds negative. Like those dirty negative nancy atheists... I'd rather the lack of belief in any type of deity be called normal. Your normal when your raised and not indoctrinated into any type of fantasy that uses lies and comfortable stories to try and answer questions about life in general.
  • RSportsguy

    Posts: 1925

    Feb 05, 2009 8:49 PM GMT
    The first guy that I ever fell for was an atheist. It did not matter to me.
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    Feb 05, 2009 9:03 PM GMT
    Me and my bf were raised with different beliefs and religion. We have begun to have some arguments before but he really doesnt practice his religion anymore as far ar going to church and all that, nor do I, so I didnt see the point in arguing about stupid little shit.

    I know he believes in God and thats good enough for me. All the other stuff just isnt important as far as the thee's and thou's and crap. We just agree to disagree.

    I can definitely understand now though as I get older how someone would be an athiest. Everything in organized religion is so hypocritical based on the way each person or religion wants it to be.

    I still believe in God but wouldnt say I am religious. I am not going to restrict my way of thinking to something that someone "says" Jesus said many many years ago...there are to many hypocrosies and contradictions in the bible to take it to serious.

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    Feb 05, 2009 9:11 PM GMT
    lawguy920 saidSimply posing the question to yourself of whether there is or is not a god has a spiritual dimension to it - whether you come out on the other side as an atheist or a believer.
    From the standpoint of logic, one would have to make an assumption that there are spiritual dimensions (and by dimension I'm assuming you mean "aspect"). I can consider gods without ever being spiritual about it, can you? If such a god exists, is it not a part of nature, and can I not consider it as a naturalist would a caterpillar?
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    Feb 05, 2009 9:13 PM GMT
    absolutely no role at all. My parents are from 2 different religions, have been married now for almost 29 years and are one of the happiest couples I have ever seen. I don't see how or why religion is an issue.
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    Feb 05, 2009 9:21 PM GMT
    My faith plays a large role in who I associate with. I don't want, or have any conflict with my friends/family, so I wouldn't invite anyone who'd cause such in my life. I'm not going to date, or even befriend anyone who thinks I'm stupid, crazy, evil, ect, for being Christian. If the person isn't a Christian, and or was an atheist, and wants to learn about my faith, or just accepts, and respects me, my values/faith that's all well and good, because Jesus never turned anyone away, no matter what walk of life they came from, especially if they were seeking god's love and all. However ultimately, I'm not going to disrespect my values, or who I am, to accept anyone into my life, who has no respect for my values, or faith.

    My faith has always been more to me, than something to "cling to" when times were rough. I believe the teachings of my faith, is a large part of why my family, especially my father, brothers, and sons, are the good people they are, and by no means do we think we're perfect. Everyone makes mistakes because man is not perfect and god knows this. You live your life the best you can, and try to follow the teachings and all, and when you make a mistake you ask god for forgiveness and he will, since he's all about the love, and forgiveness. God doesn't reject anyone, unless they reject him, and have ill will to those who have love for him.

    Though you do respect the position, and even seek guidance from those who are head in your house of worship. Their position doesn't always mean that they know god better than anyone else, or are without fault. Only god knows a man's heart, and soul, and only god can judge a man's heart and soul, any other man who tries to do so, and condemn that man, does not know anything about god period, and I don't care what position in the church they are. There are a lot of people who misinterpret the bible, present the faith in a wrong way, or sometimes even use the faith to justify the evil they do to others, or use it to make others feel guilt, shame, or fear for their imperfections, because they themselves full of them, and sin like mad, they of course are hypocrites, who know nothing of god, and will no doubt be punished by god, because they punish/condemn others, to make themselves feel better.

    I was raised pretty traditionally, and raise my sons the same. I grew up knowing that there was nothing wrong, or abnormal for two men to have a strong love/bond with each other. I've seen such relationships between men in my mythology books, my warrior culture books, and even in the bible with David, and Johnathan who clearly had that very same relationship. If it were wrong in the eyes of god, no doubt would he have destroyed them instantly, but certainly would have never blessed David enough to allow him to become a king. The bible says man shouldn't lay with man as he would a woman. Which basically means man shouldn't treat a man, as he would treat a woman, a man shouldn't seek another man to treat him as a woman. This is also what ancient cultures before Jesus was even around believed, for a few reasons.

    Though many believe that the Greeks were all well and fine with men running around penetrating other men, or boys, they were not. To some Greek men, it was viewed as a right of passage, and MOST of the time the whole practice was done between father, and son (which is just gross). Those who did practice this, believed it wasn't to be done after the man boy reached a certain age, however there were men who continued to do so, and they were frowned upon, because the man doing the act, was seen as feminizing the boy, or man. The man having it done to him, was then no longer seen as a man, as he let another man treat him as a woman. The soldiers, fighters, and warriors viewed the role of being penetrated as the woman's role, and while these warriors, soldiers, and fighters would have male lovers, the relationship was not for, or about sex, it was always about the whole strong bond, and love they shared as warriors, and equals.

    If stuff got all hot and heavy between them, basically both men wanting sex, and they were out on the battlefield away from home, away from women, the two of them would do their whole little frot thing, which in a lot of Greek pictures/art concerning that stuff, you see them more engaged in that position with another man, and never really the positions a man would be in with another man, to do anal sex with him. Part of the other reason men did this with each other were because they always wanted their women to be virgins, and well chances are, your not getting a virgin when you marry, if all the guys were running about boinking every girl, which did happen yes, but it just was something not favored.

    The Spartans always made fun of the Athenians for allowing the whole penetrating practice to go on between men, or men and boys, and they believed it made them weak, the whole feminizing another man. The Persians actually tried to use that against the Greeks, believing that they would make the young men, not so interested in fighting, being that they'd all be feminized, and of course easily conquered. So basically what the bible is saying with that is, its abnormal for men to wish other men to treat them as women, and for men to treat other men as women, being that men are not women,he wouldn't have created woman, if men were to be treated as such, and I personally find it degrading for men to treat other men as a woman, and by no means do I view women as second class citizens. A good woman should always be honored, and respected, and taken care of, but they are the fairer sex, and not made as men, and shouldn't be treated as men, and the other way around.

    This wasn't just with the Athenians/Spartans (Greek/Roman), but also with Japanese warrior culture, the Celtics, Arabs, African tribes, Native Americans, and even the Vikings (though they were much harsh with it ha)

    So in other words, though my best friend and I, who have been through a lot together, share the whole strong love/bond with each other and all, I'm never going to have him in my bed, with my ding dong in him, in any kind of way, and he won't have me in that way either, I'm not a woman, he's not a woman, and our anuses are not vaginas so that's a no no. I'll kiss, hug, hold, cuddle, tell him I love him, not caring who is around, but his penis is not going in my mouth, or up in me bum, nor mine his, and we're not marrying each other.

    A lot of people think god destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, because the men were having anal sex with each other. No, it was way more than that, but some people try to make it a whole gay issue, when it is not. What was going on in these two cities would have made Vegas, look like Disney Land ha. Men, women,and children were being raped, people would steal from each other, lust after each other, murder each other, most of all those who lived in the city, and loved, and cared for god were either corrupted, or killed, so he put an end to it by destroying both cities. It would be pretty hard for people today to imagine living in a city, where your neighbors down the block wanted to come up in your home, rape you, your wife, or your kid, and or kill you, it was an everyday thing back then. When the angels came to visit Lot and his family to tell em, they had to get up out of there, he had tons of people banging on his door wanting him to bring the two men out, so that they could "know them better" so I'm sure it was just a horrible place to be, if you were a good person.

    God doesn't have hate in his heart for anyone, he's like a father, and we're his children, If my sons do something bad, of course I'm going to be hurt, and or displeased with them, but I'm not going to hate them, and I'm not going to want to destroy them. But if they completely reject me, and have no love for me, and hurt the things I love, then I'd have to reject them.
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    Feb 05, 2009 10:07 PM GMT
    Treating a man like a woman? That's your hang-up?

    You've presented a long-worded glory treatise to qualify your lifestyle choice. Some of it (the Sodom and Gomorrah thing) is quite likely utter mythology. I've heard such qualifications for the destruction of S&G from preachers and fundamentalist scholars, but the surviving biblical text gives little clarity to the issue.

    According to Ezekiel, Sodom's sin was that "She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me." I think rape is a detestable thing, but the god of the bible hasn't always been against rape (read verses 10-24).

    I doubt your historical references are the reason for your revulsion of penetrative man-sex. I believe you had the revulsion to begin with, and you're using the historical references to support your prejudice. Nobody says you gotta do it, and good for you for knowing your thing. However, posting the justifications smacks a bit of self-righteousness, and you're shooting across the bow of the wrong ship, if that's the tone you want to take.
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    Feb 05, 2009 10:22 PM GMT
    atheist = there ain't no such thing.
    agnostic = there ain't no proof of such thing, but who knows?
    believer = Yes there is a God and it ain't you.

    If the existence of God could be demonstrated then there would be no need of faith.

    I can be a believer yet not have any religious attachment. If I found myself in love with someone who did, I think I would try to be as accommodating as possible.

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    Feb 05, 2009 10:24 PM GMT
    I prefer to date someone who at a minimum doesn't attend church. I prefer a non-believer. Some say atheists don't have morals or values...and I say "Fuck You!" hahahaha....we do tend to cuss more than the average religious person, however I do know some who cuss like a sailor.
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    Feb 05, 2009 10:33 PM GMT
    Isn't it curious how reading comic books and watching the 300 in no way confers the slightest understanding of Hellenistic history or culture? What a pity to confuse a depiction of Spartan abs for the richest polytheistic society (pan Hellenistic) of them all.
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    Feb 05, 2009 10:39 PM GMT
    Gay Christians are more often than not marginalized by both gays and christians.

    I think it's f'd up. Two communities, one that supposedly teaches tolerance, and the other that fights for it, shows very little acceptance/tolerance to this gay minority. I don't get it...

    I'm a Jesus Freak!!! Some people hate me for it, some admire me for it.

    I'll date someone who views me the latter way...

    And those who hate me for it don't invalidate or diminish who I am, what I believe in, how I live my life, or what I stand for- those are all things I look to myself/God for, not to others.
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    Feb 05, 2009 10:42 PM GMT
    Heywood_Floyd saidIsn't it curious how reading comic books and watching the 300 in no way confers the slightest understanding of Hellenistic history or culture? What a pity to confuse a depiction of Spartan abs for the richest polytheistic society (pan Hellenistic) of them all.



    Um... Reading comics, or watching 300, has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, being that none of the comics I read growing up, talked about such thing... Its called picking up a book and learning stuff about ancient cultures, which I'm sure you could easily learn more about being that the internet is such a huge world. I suggest you do so.
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    Feb 05, 2009 11:03 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio saidTreating a man like a woman? That's your hang-up?

    You've presented a long-worded glory treatise to qualify your lifestyle choice. Some of it (the Sodom and Gomorrah thing) is quite likely utter mythology. I've heard such qualifications for the destruction of S&G from preachers and fundamentalist scholars, but the surviving biblical text gives little clarity to the issue.

    According to Ezekiel, Sodom's sin was that "She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me." I think rape is a detestable thing, but the god of the bible hasn't always been against rape (read verses 10-24).

    I doubt your historical references are the reason for your revulsion of penetrative man-sex. I believe you had the revulsion to begin with, and you're using the historical references to support your prejudice. Nobody says you gotta do it, and good for you for knowing your thing. However, posting the justifications smacks a bit of self-righteousness, and you're shooting across the bow of the wrong ship, if that's the tone you want to take.


    Going by what you just wrote, its clear you don't know a lot about the bible, or fully understood what I said dude..

    I don't think I was trying to "glorify" anything. I was just talking about in some of it, that my friend and I feel the very same about each other, as the warriors, soldiers, and fighters did in ancient times, and the way David, and Johnathan felt about each other in the Bible.

    I don't need to justify how I live, because I know its not wrong, nor is it abnormal, I feel no shame, or embarrassment about the love I have for my friend, My family/friends who all know, get it, understand it, and don't care, and well based on the mythologies/warrior culture, and knowing why soldiers, warriors, and fighters would have such love for each other, I always thought it was beautiful, and the way it was supposed to be if you had love for another man.

    As far as men treating men as women, even without religion, to me that is just abnormal, and I wouldn't want any man wanting me to treat him as a woman, nor would I ever allow another man to treat me as such, its weird, and degrading to me, which is what I said before.I have a wife/woman, who I love and take care of, she gets, understands, and doesn't care (not in bad way "I don't care" ) the type of relationship I have with my childhood friend, same for his woman, of course today they call it a "Bromance" ha.

    As far as the anal sex goes, again even without religion, I find it gross, and degrading, something I just don't find attractive. I'm not gonna sit there and tell anyone else they're wrong, or god hates you, because they're into that, that's something between themselves, and god, and I have nothing to do with it, I just know, I don't like it, and again studying the warrior culture, I see why they didn't do that with each other, and the men that they would penetrate, they'd never see them as their equal, and pretty much viewed them as women, again something I'm not attracted to at all, and know why it wasn't favored.

    On top of that, I do know gay guys, some of which have messaged me on here, who are turned off by anal/oral sex and don't do it, partly because they don't like the idea of being treated as a pseudo woman, or its just nasty to em, they just like being all loving, and affectionate with another man, and ONLY a man, which there is nothing wrong with. So I don't equate oral/anal sex with gay.

    Like the guy before you, I suggest you read up on some stuff, and learn the bible more, before you start dropping scriptures to me.