Who Belongs In America? All Things Migration.

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    Jan 24, 2016 6:35 PM GMT
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    The bosom of America is open to receive not only the Opulent and respected Stranger, but the oppressed and persecuted of all Nations and Religions; whom we shall welcome to a participation of all our rights and privileges…”~~George Washington

    http://www.migrationpolicy.org/
    logo.png
    “I received a letter just before I left office from a man. I don’t know why he chose to write it, but I’m glad he did. He wrote that you can go to live in France, but you can’t become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Italy, but you can’t become a German, an Italian. He went through Turkey, Greece, Japan and other countries. But he said anyone, from any corner of the world, can come to live in the United States and become an American.”~~Ronald Reagan

    I was curious about some info and found that website above which at quick glance looked to me a good source for a number of topics that come up especially these days and in various forums be that gay news or news news or all things or how to date a 1st generation immigrant. So I just placed it here for everyone's ready reference or your comments discussions or unexpected trolling, or not.

    Our attitude towards immigration reflects our faith in the American ideal. We have always believed it possible for men and women who start at the bottom to rise as far as the talent and energy allow. Neither race nor place of birth should affect their chances.”~~Robert F. Kennedy

    Here's who the website claims to be:

    http://www.migrationpolicy.org/about/mission
    ...MPI provides analysis, development, and evaluation of migration and refugee policies at local, national, and international levels. It aims to meet the demand for pragmatic and thoughtful responses to the challenges and opportunities that large-scale migration, whether voluntary or forced, presents to communities and institutions in an increasingly integrated world....

    ...MPI is guided by the philosophy that international migration needs active and intelligent management. When such policies are in place and are responsibly administered, they bring benefits to immigrants and their families, communities of origin and destination, and sending and receiving countries...

    “Nearly all Americans have ancestors who braved the oceans – liberty-loving risk takers in search of an ideal – the largest voluntary migrations in recorded history… Immigration is not just a link to America’s past; it’s also a bridge to America’s future.”~~George W. Bush

    Here's the wiki on that web:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Policy_Institute
    The Migration Policy Institute (MPI) is a Washington, D.C.-based think tank established in 2001... It is "an independent, non-partisan, non-profit think-tank dedicated to the study of the movement of people worldwide."...

    The land flourished because it was fed from so many sources–because it was nourished by so many cultures and traditions and peoples.”~~Lyndon B. Johnson

    This is the info (next link) I was seeking for another thread showing the number of new immigrants into the USA by year (note especially the WWII years)

    My own family arrived in the late 1800s. I've mentioned elsewhere that my paternal great grandfather had as a client a US president so that's a pretty fast career move for a 1st generation American making a new life here in escaping the pogroms of Russia where life had become intolerable. His children went into entertainment, contributing to the Americana that will be known throughout the life of this nation. Thus my fervency favoring immigration which is our foundation and our future. Oh, and I need one more F to complete the alliteration. What might that be? Got it. Fuck anyone who says otherwise.

    http://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/Annual-Number-of-US-Legal-Permanent-Residents?width=1000&height=850&iframe=true
    Legal Immigration to the United States, 1820-Present
    The United States attracts the largest number of immigrants in the world, who join the fabric of U.S. society through avenues such as citizenship, becoming legal permanent residents (LPRs), or by seeking humanitarian protection. This chart tracks the number of people who annually are granted legal permanent residence

    “More than any other nation on Earth, America has constantly drawn strength and spirit from wave after wave of immigrants. In each generation, they have proved to be the most restless, the most adventurous, the most innovative, the most industrious of people. Bearing different memories, honoring different heritages, they have strengthened our economy, enriched our culture, renewed our promise of freedom and opportunity for all….”~~Bill Clinton

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    Jan 24, 2016 6:35 PM GMT
    “Born in other countries, yet believing you could be happy in this, our laws acknowledge, as they should do, your right to join us in society, conforming, as I doubt not you will do, to our established rules. That these rules shall be as equal as prudential considerations will admit, will certainly be the aim of our legislatures, general and particular.” ~~Thomas Jefferson
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    Jan 26, 2016 4:20 PM GMT
    Both sides of my family emigrated to the USA in the mid to late 1800s. And some had moved across the continent by 1890.

    A broad topic opens up.....

    Where do corporations fit in migration, now that they have the same rights as humans (at least in the USA)? Will their movement ever be governed by the same laws impacting flesh and bone humans?

    The American ideals stated above bring a tear to many an eye.

    The history of how America has treated immigrants and those viewed as 'too different' bring a tear to many an eye.

    Are we on the verge of a new philosophy or construct of human-made boundaries (or lack thereof)? We've progressed from family and tribal boundaries, to kingdoms, to nations, to empires. The next step is removal of national borders and we become one humanity on the planet, free to move when/where we choose. As always, this type of change threatens the established political institutions and power structure, but may, over the decades and (if necessary) centuries, take hold among the populations and slowly become the new norm. Perhaps an encounter with an alien species will bond the peoples of the world - causing the existing practices of national borders to become obsolete as a response to such an encounter fosters cooperation.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 26, 2016 5:57 PM GMT
    CrabNebula saidBoth sides of my family emigrated to the USA in the mid to late 1800s. And some had moved across the continent by 1890.

    A broad topic opens up.....

    Where do corporations fit in migration, now that they have the same rights as humans (at least in the USA)? Will their movement ever be governed by the same laws impacting flesh and bone humans?

    The American ideals stated above bring a tear to many an eye.

    The history of how America has treated immigrants and those viewed as 'too different' bring a tear to many an eye.

    Are we on the verge of a new philosophy or construct of human-made boundaries (or lack thereof)? We've progressed from family and tribal boundaries, to kingdoms, to nations, to empires. The next step is removal of national borders and we become one humanity on the planet, free to move when/where we choose. As always, this type of change threatens the established political institutions and power structure, but may, over the decades and (if necessary) centuries, take hold among the populations and slowly become the new norm. Perhaps an encounter with an alien species will bond the peoples of the world - causing the existing practices of national borders to become obsolete as a response to such an encounter fosters cooperation.

    I think the future you imagine will come sooner than anyone thinks. The internet just makes our planet seem like such a small place.... plus or minus some aliens, of course!
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    Jan 27, 2016 1:56 AM GMT
    CrabNebula saidBoth sides of my family emigrated to the USA in the mid to late 1800s. And some had moved across the continent by 1890.

    A broad topic opens up.....

    Where do corporations fit in migration, now that they have the same rights as humans (at least in the USA)? Will their movement ever be governed by the same laws impacting flesh and bone humans?

    The American ideals stated above bring a tear to many an eye.

    The history of how America has treated immigrants and those viewed as 'too different' bring a tear to many an eye.

    Are we on the verge of a new philosophy or construct of human-made boundaries (or lack thereof)? We've progressed from family and tribal boundaries, to kingdoms, to nations, to empires. The next step is removal of national borders and we become one humanity on the planet, free to move when/where we choose. As always, this type of change threatens the established political institutions and power structure, but may, over the decades and (if necessary) centuries, take hold among the populations and slowly become the new norm. Perhaps an encounter with an alien species will bond the peoples of the world - causing the existing practices of national borders to become obsolete as a response to such an encounter fosters cooperation.


    You've outlined those issues well.

    Way back in college, I enjoyed the opportunity to volunteer with global citizen Bucky Fuller, not the man personally but so it turned out with his nephew (I hadn't known he was involved but wound up with him on my first day). We were tasked with bringing a conference on peace to campuses around the world simultaneously by satellite, new technology at the time. I'd been taken by Fuller since discovering his work at least in high school, so grabbed the chance to work for him only to find myself lusting for his handsome nephew. Young gay horny out for sex and to save the world, I was multitasking.

    I don't know how practical a borderless world might be at this point of population explosion. Your idea of the borderless corporation I haven't even thought of outside the idea of multinationals. So as in no base, no taxation? Yikes. Since we're people like they are, can we also simply exist in cybrworld and not pay our taxes too?

    Back when Bucky was alive we still had the idea of zero population growth which was then at 4.4 billion, now at 7.3, so while he was quite the optimist, I'd sure love to hear his view of it all now. Borderless might work better with less people? I don't know. It just seems at some point the difference between a junk drawer and a silverware drawer, though I still maintain in my thinking many principles of a global citizenry.

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    Jan 27, 2016 2:00 AM GMT
    All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian.~~Pat Paulsen
  • JackNNJ

    Posts: 1051

    Jan 27, 2016 2:58 AM GMT
    All true. But GW didn't mean we have to take in scumbags.

    Look at what the dimwits in Europe did.

    CZSfEMRWIAIqJBs.jpg
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Jan 27, 2016 3:35 AM GMT
    I am not against immigration. It is the by product of migration. My family came here in the 1800's mostly from Ireland and Germany. So, I am a white kid.

    But, I pose a hypothetical:

    You are on a cruise ship. You and your family have saved up for this cruise. You spend a night in your room, enjoy the buffet, have a great night. You go out to the pool the next day. Love it. Head back to your room and someone is in it. You call the steward and say, someone is in your room. He says, yes, we know, he sneaked onto the boat. You have to share your room with him. What? Well, sir, he sneaked onto the boat and you have to share it with him now. What? I paid for this, he did not? Sorry sir, we have to give him a room and so now you must share it. Next day, at the breakfast buffet, you go to get eggs. Sorry sir, but your cabin has already been fed. What? Who? Well, you paid for breakfast but the stowaway ate earlier and there is only so much to food. But he is a stowaway? Why am I paying for him? Sorry sir. That is our policy. Stowaways get the same treatment as paying customers.

    So anyone can sneak on to the boat and gets treated the same as people that actually did the right thing by paying to be on this cruise ship?

    All people are equal, sir.

    I think I will emigrate to Mexico.
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Jan 27, 2016 3:40 AM GMT
    Buckminster Fuller was an amazing guy, a futurist that had more failures than successes but that is common among guys that try different things. Bucky balls are named after him. He did homes and rv's, crazy guy with a unique vision.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 27, 2016 4:36 AM GMT
    Who belongs in America?The people the citizens of this nation DECIDE should be here.Period.
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    Jan 27, 2016 4:46 AM GMT
    JackNNJ saidAll true. But GW didn't mean we have to take in scumbags.

    Look at what the dimwits in Europe did.

    CZSfEMRWIAIqJBs.jpg




    this seriously makes me laugh, all those idiots all over Europe
    Liberal fascism at it's finest and stupidity and it will only get worse
  • mjlikeaboss

    Posts: 70

    Jan 27, 2016 4:53 AM GMT
    WickedRyan saidWho belongs in America?The people the citizens of this nation DECIDE should be here.Period.


    Does that mean we can vote all the bigots off the island?
  • mjlikeaboss

    Posts: 70

    Jan 27, 2016 4:55 AM GMT
    Bonifacius said
    JackNNJ saidAll true. But GW didn't mean we have to take in scumbags.

    Look at what the dimwits in Europe did.

    CZSfEMRWIAIqJBs.jpg




    this seriously makes me laugh, all those idiots all over Europe
    LIberal fascism at it's finest and stupidity and it will only get worse


    Woo hoo! Time for a drink, folks! Cheers!
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    Jan 27, 2016 5:00 AM GMT
    Sam27 said
    Bonifacius said
    JackNNJ saidAll true. But GW didn't mean we have to take in scumbags.

    Look at what the dimwits in Europe did.

    CZSfEMRWIAIqJBs.jpg




    this seriously makes me laugh, all those idiots all over Europe
    Liberal fascism at it's finest and stupidity and it will only get worse


    If they invite the wrong people into their country without any background and security checks then people will be terrifies.



    Europe did NOT invite anyone moron, illegal immigrants are just brutally coming and idiots are the one '' inviting '' and what background check moron? everywhere islam spreads muslims degrade and kill and rape and terrorize
    seriously you live in a box
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    Jan 27, 2016 5:12 AM GMT
    The problem is that the national mind has no grown up. It still thinks it's 1783 and the continent needs to be peopled by white folk. We show signs of over-population coast to coast. The immigrants are fleeing their own countries because of issues caused by over-population. Most will end up in California where we are out of water because of unmanaged growth and real estate costs are way over $1,000 / SF ..again because of scarcity.
  • mjlikeaboss

    Posts: 70

    Jan 27, 2016 1:06 PM GMT
    Let's just pretend for a minute that Europe somehow managed to close their borders to all these refugees. Where are they supposed to go? Just stay where they were and get raped and pillaged and slaughtered? I can't say I'd be thrilled about having hordes of refugees camping in my backyard, but these are real people with families and lives. I don't know if there really is a great solution to the problem, but "send them home" seems like a pretty bad one...
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    Jan 27, 2016 1:57 PM GMT
    Um i don't think america is superior to any other country
    Oh wait they created netflix so i retract my statement
    God bless america!!!!!
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    Jan 27, 2016 4:18 PM GMT
    Triggerman said...So anyone can sneak on to the boat and gets treated the same as people that actually did the right thing by paying to be on this cruise ship?

    All people are equal, sir.

    I think I will emigrate to Mexico.


    And what if that cruise ship had engines full stop for repairs mid ocean, where by chance there happened a survivor of catastrophe at sea, floating upon the debris of the Titanic who on a mooring line inadvertently left dangling alongside ship, climbed up with his last ounce of strength aboard the sound vessel of survival?

    He gets no brunch? What are you going to do, throw him back?

    One of the concepts of the global citizen is responsibility even for lives which are not our own. And in the case of survival at sea, Admiralty Law demands it.

    random google:
    http://www.duhaime.org/LegalResources/MaritimeLaw/LawArticle-389/The-Obligation-to-Render-Assistance-at-Sea.aspx
    "Every qualified person who is the master of a vessel in any waters, on receiving a signal from any source that a person, a vessel or an aircraft is in distress, shall proceed with all speed to render assistance...


    Triggerman saidBuckminster Fuller was an amazing guy, a futurist that had more failures than successes but that is common among guys that try different things. Bucky balls are named after him. He did homes and rv's, crazy guy with a unique vision.


    He was so sane. And so prolific in his works. I was influenced by his writing early in life. I still remember being pretty young and working through some of his mathematics in trying to grapple with his concepts--kind of a weird remembrance. But also I've always kept in mind his death, which touched me very much especially by its circumstance which I recalled somewhat but not all the details until I just looked it up. I've always remembered that his wife died at about the same time but I'd forgotten about the coma....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller
    Fuller died on July 1, 1983, 11 days before his 88th birthday. During the period leading up to his death, his wife had been lying comatose in a Los Angeles hospital, dying of cancer. It was while visiting her there that he exclaimed, at a certain point: "She is squeezing my hand!" He then stood up, suffered a heart attack, and died an hour later, at age 87. His wife of 66 years died 36 hours later

    So much love. Very moving.

    Those Who Would Remove to America

    Strangers are welcome because there is room enough for them all, and therefore the old Inhabitants are not jealous of them; the Laws protect them sufficiently so that they have no need of the Patronage of great Men; and every one will enjoy securely the Profits of his Industry. But if he does not bring a Fortune with him, he must work and be industrious to live
    .~~Benjamin Franklin 1784
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    Jan 27, 2016 4:44 PM GMT
    WickedRyan saidWho belongs in America? The people the citizens of this nation DECIDE should be here. Period.


    Are we driven by whims of wind or do we stand upon purple mountains majesty.

    Two random Georges:

    "...of all Nations and Religions"~~Washington

    “...people around the world are willing to leave their homes and leave their families and risk everything to come to America."~~ Bush
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    Jan 27, 2016 5:17 PM GMT
    Bonifacius said:
    "this seriously makes me laugh, all those idiots all over Europe
    Liberal fascism at it's finest and stupidity and it will only get worse
    "

    Fascism is not a 'liberal' movement:
    Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Influenced by national syndicalism, fascism originated in Italy during World War I, in opposition to liberalism, Marxism, and anarchism. Fascism is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.

    Aren't we all a bit 'fascist'? Each of us wants 'government' to reflect our individual beliefs and vision of how our country should be structured/ordered/run. And we want the 'government' to support and promote that belief - and to deny those who would take away our form of governance.

    Obviously, the type of government each of us (as 'fascists') wants is a bit different, so we line up behind the generalities which best match a majority of our personal beliefs.
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    Jan 28, 2016 5:27 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidThe problem is that the national mind has no grown up. It still thinks it's 1783 and the continent needs to be peopled by white folk. We show signs of over-population coast to coast. The immigrants are fleeing their own countries because of issues caused by over-population. Most will end up in California where we are out of water because of unmanaged growth and real estate costs are way over $1,000 / SF ..again because of scarcity.


    While the pricing of some of its cities is scary, neither is Calif itself yet at 1000/sq ft (CA median sold price per square foot as of Dec 2015 is $273***) nor does scarcity designed determine abundance which could be made available (low cost housing/ dormitory living, group homes, etc.) .

    ***Zillow median sold for prices/sq ft:

    RegionName 2015-12
    California 272.9067
    Florida 120.7602
    Illinois 129.0463
    Pennsylvania 115.6502
    Ohio 88.1821
    Michigan 103.7816
    Georgia 93.8454
    North Carolina 102.23
    New Jersey 178.1
    Virginia 159.6685
    Washington 176.2164
    Massachusetts 195.7527
    Arizona 122.9823
    Maryland 169.128
    Wisconsin 107.6582
    Minnesota 168.7741
    Colorado 177.6527
    Alabama 85.8549
    South Carolina 97.8648
    Kentucky 94.0256
    Oregon 168.8688
    Oklahoma 84.4671
    Connecticut 150.3498
    Iowa 115.4108
    Arkansas 83.9229
    Nevada 128.7173
    West Virginia 80.5919
    Nebraska 105.6434
    Hawaii 429.6569
    Maine
    New Hampshire 135.8073
    Rhode Island 163.1818
    Delaware 133.8433
    Vermont 165.0197
    District of Columbia 513.1565
    National Average 153.4917

    But yeah, you guys have water problems. Curious to that my brother mentioned recently in reminiscing the movie Chinatown that he'd read that early Calif water supply projections were based on a historic anomaly which as it has turned out did not represent the true water supply ever available to the area.

    "(L)et the poor the needy and oppressed of the Earth, and those who want Land, resort to the fertile plains of our western country, the second land of Promise, and there dwell in peace, fulfilling the first and great commandment."~~George Washington letter to David Humphreys July 25, 1785
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jan 28, 2016 5:29 PM GMT
    Sweden to deport up to half of "refugees"

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-sweden-idUKKCN0V60HB
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    Jan 28, 2016 5:32 PM GMT
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    "I had always hoped that this land might become a safe and agreeable asylum to the virtuous and persecuted part of mankind, to whatever nation they might belong."~~George Washington letter to Francis Van der Kamp May 28, 1788

    Name one other nation built upon such principle.

    This is a great nation.
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    Jan 28, 2016 5:39 PM GMT
    tj85016 saidSweden to deport up to half of "refugees"

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-sweden-idUKKCN0V60HB


    "...we must remember that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are decent people who work hard, support their families, practice their faith, and lead responsible lives. They are a part of American life but they are beyond the reach and protection of American law.

    We are a nation of laws, and we must enforce our laws. We’re also a nation of immigrants, and we must uphold that tradition, which has strengthened our country in so many ways. These are not contradictory goals. America can be a lawful society and a welcoming society at the same time....

    ...Some in this country argue that the solution is to — is to deport every illegal immigrant and that any proposal short of this amounts to amnesty. I disagree. It is neither wise nor realistic to round up millions of people, many with deep roots in the United States, and send them across the border. There is a rational middle ground between granting an automatic path to citizenship for every illegal immigrant, and a program of mass deportation. That middle ground recognizes that there are differences between an illegal immigrant who crossed the border recently and someone who has worked here for many years, and has a home, a family, and an otherwise clean record. I believe that illegal immigrants who have roots in our country and want to stay should have to pay a meaningful penalty for breaking the law, … to pay their taxes, … to learn English … and to work in a job for a number of years. People who meet these conditions should be able to apply for citizenship..."~~George W. Bush 2006
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    Feb 01, 2016 1:29 AM GMT
    "The policy or advantage of [immigration] taking place in a body (I mean the settling of them in a body) may be much questioned; for, by so doing, they retain the language, habits, and principles (good or bad) which they bring with them. Whereas by an intermixture with our people, they, or their descendants, get assimilated to our customs, measures, and laws: in a word, soon become one people."~~George Washington letter to Vice-President John Adams November 15, 1794