Our complicated relationship with vanity

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    Jan 28, 2016 4:39 AM GMT
    I find the gay community's relationship with vanity interesting. On one hand we elevate beauty and demand fitness. We gladly watch porn filled with guys on gear and even pay them to dance, strip or sexually pleasure us. We pick out every flaw in each other's bodies or faces. On the other hand we ridicule guys who take steroids, get plastic surgery, wear make up or are too quaffed. We treat other men like straight men treat women but judge them like straight women judge each other.
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    Jan 28, 2016 6:46 AM GMT
    Not this gay man.
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    Jan 28, 2016 6:47 AM GMT
    I don't find this specific to gay community only.
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    Jan 28, 2016 7:13 AM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidNot this gay man.


    Do you think naturally having kids and raising them, thus having to mature earlier than most gay men is why you don't value looks as highly as most gay men seem too?
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    Jan 28, 2016 7:16 AM GMT
    ricky1987 saidI don't find this specific to gay community only.


    While a complicated relationship to vanity is not specific to the gay community we do lust after the same group that we compete with which is unique to homosexuals and bisexuals. If you believe men value looks more because we are more visual than women that also sets us apart from lesbian and bisexual women. Our relationship to vanity expresses itself differently.
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    Jan 28, 2016 7:45 AM GMT
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    Jan 28, 2016 7:48 AM GMT
    Bonifacius saidblah.gif


    Hi hater, how's that self-esteem doing?
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    Jan 28, 2016 11:03 AM GMT
    MrFuscle said
    ricky1987 saidI don't find this specific to gay community only.


    While a complicated relationship to vanity is not specific to the gay community we do lust after the same group that we compete with which is unique to homosexuals and bisexuals. If you believe men value looks more because we are more visual than women that also sets us apart from lesbian and bisexual women. Our relationship to vanity expresses itself differently.


    Yes, it is a very self contradictory relationship.
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    Jan 28, 2016 4:10 PM GMT
    I agree that this isn't limited to gay people.
  • mjlikeaboss

    Posts: 70

    Jan 28, 2016 4:17 PM GMT
    I kind of object to the generality that THE gay community is like this. My gay community, that is my friends and family that are gay, aren't really like this. Nor are my non-gay friends and family. I haven't really had to put up with that sort of catty behavior in a long time. But most of us are married or in LTRs and so we aren't on the market and don't have to compete for mating rights. Isn't that what a lot of that behavior is about? Making ourselves seem attractive and everyone else less attractive?
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 28, 2016 5:25 PM GMT
    Another thing gay men do, which is something straight men do to women, is that when they do find some silly ideal of a perfect physical representation they proceed to demean them. Good looks v good personality = the assumption that good looking people have less personality. Sorry, but calling someone vapid or empty on the inside just because they're pretty to look at is no different than insulting someone's looks. Then there's the whole masc v fem issue and racism. /:
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    Jan 28, 2016 5:50 PM GMT
    I have a question. When you state the Gay Community... you are referring to only men, correct?
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    Jan 28, 2016 8:02 PM GMT
    javelin7 saidI agree that this isn't limited to gay people.


    I never said that having a complicated relationship with vanity is limited to gay people. I'm a gay man on a gay oriented site so I'm approaching this from a gay perspective.
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    Jan 28, 2016 8:06 PM GMT
    mjlikeaboss saidI kind of object to the generality that THE gay community is like this. My gay community, that is my friends and family that are gay, aren't really like this. Nor are my non-gay friends and family. I haven't really had to put up with that sort of catty behavior in a long time. But most of us are married or in LTRs and so we aren't on the market and don't have to compete for mating rights. Isn't that what a lot of that behavior is about? Making ourselves seem attractive and everyone else less attractive?


    Yes, generalization always comes with the downfall that no community is truly homogeneous.

    I'm not sure if its about making ourselves seem more attractive while making others seem less. Since we list after other men I would say no. We have incentives to want to make other men more attractive to us and the other men around them.
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    Jan 28, 2016 8:10 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidAnother thing gay men do, which is something straight men do to women, is that when they do find some silly ideal of a perfect physical representation they proceed to demean them. Good looks v good personality = the assumption that good looking people have less personality. Sorry, but calling someone vapid or empty on the inside just because they're pretty to look at is no different than insulting someone's looks. Then there's the whole masc v fem issue and racism. /:


    I think the masc versus fem thing is very interesting. On one hand our society allows women to express themselves more freely with jewelry and clothing. On the other hand men are given more physical leeway. A feminine man can still be seen as beautiful. Whereas masculine women are not. Pretty is not universally seen as an insult to men. Handsome however is rarely seen as an appropriate compliment for a woman.
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    Jan 28, 2016 8:12 PM GMT
    Awesomepossum saidI have a question. When you state the Gay Community... you are referring to only men, correct?


    Yes. I tend to refer to gay and bi men as gay when referring to their homosexual tendencies. When speaking of men and women I use the term homosexual. I think its the norm, otherwise the L IN GLBT is redundant.
  • Fireworkz

    Posts: 606

    Jan 28, 2016 8:24 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidAnother thing gay men do, which is something straight men do to women, is that when they do find some silly ideal of a perfect physical representation they proceed to demean them. Good looks v good personality = the assumption that good looking people have less personality. Sorry, but calling someone vapid or empty on the inside just because they're pretty to look at is no different than insulting someone's looks. Then there's the whole masc v fem issue and racism. /:


    It's funny I caught myself doing this today seeing a hot guy and assuming he was vacuous and spends too much time at the gym. I had to check myself.
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    Jan 29, 2016 2:30 AM GMT
    MrFuscle said
    UndercoverMan saidNot this gay man.


    Do you think naturally having kids and raising them, thus having to mature earlier than most gay men is why you don't value looks as highly as most gay men seem too?


    No. I realized early on in life that looks are a genetic crap shoot, so I guess that's why I don't place much importance on them. In fact, I am more attracted to guys who have some wonky distinguishing characteristic like a large or interestingly shaped nose or thick full lips (no not Steve Harvey lips) or ears that may protrude a bit or great cheek bones or some other certain je ne sais quoi. I contacted my now husband on Grindr even though his photo only showed his lower face. His lips alone attracted me and I didn't need to see anything else. In fact I didn't see all of him until we met in person. I told him I didn't need to see anymore and that those lips of his were enough for the moment.

    I have a good friend who used to tell me I could do better (as far as looks went) than whoever I was dating at the time. I remember the time he told me, "You know, His Name Here, isn't very good looking." To which I replied but you didn't see the smile he flashed me on the dance floor!
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Jan 29, 2016 2:48 AM GMT
    No. I realized early on in life that looks are a genetic crap shoot, so I guess that's why I don't place much importance on them


    Isn't everything a crap shoot though? We're all taught to admire hard working people but isn't being hard working based on how you were raised and thus in part by the genetics of those who raised you, certainly the environment they created for you.

    I don't really distinguish too much between people who are really intelligent or really ambitious or really good looking, i don't think Stephen Hawking did anything too much more spectacular than Paris Hilton, they were both born with advantages and disadvantages that lead them to become who they became. Of course at first glance it's easier to praise someone for being a doctor than it is to praise someone for being tall but in the end, it's really just the same.

    Maybe that speaks to the absurdity of vanity of any kind.



    To which I replied but you didn't see the smile he flashed me on the dance floor!


    Nice story, i like that.


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    Jan 29, 2016 3:39 AM GMT
    We like what we like, some guys are into it and a lot aren't. I love guys who juice, just saying icon_smile.gif
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    Jan 29, 2016 12:37 PM GMT
    badbug said Of course at first glance it's easier to praise someone for being a doctor than it is to praise someone for being tall but in the end, it's really just the same.



    No no no.

    To reap the benefits of being tall, all you have to do is be tall.

    To be a doctor of course you have to start out with the right genetics and upbringing, but the rest is not automatic.

    You have to work relentlessly for the first 30 or more years of your life.

    It's not the same.
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    Jan 29, 2016 1:46 PM GMT
    My take on this is that people (gay and straight) tend to prefer "natural" versus "fabricated." By that I mean beauty that's not aided by steroids, make-up, plastic surgery, etc. I also think that, among men specifically (gay and straight), there's a tendency to view these things as "unfair competition." Amongst athletes, for example, we marvel at the physical beauty and strength of "natural" athletes, but we abhor those who resort to artificial means.
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    Jan 29, 2016 5:20 PM GMT
    TexDef07 said
    badbug said Of course at first glance it's easier to praise someone for being a doctor than it is to praise someone for being tall but in the end, it's really just the same.



    No no no.

    To reap the benefits of being tall, all you have to do is be tall.

    To be a doctor of course you have to start out with the right genetics and upbringing, but the rest is not automatic.

    You have to work relentlessly for the first 30 or more years of your life.

    It's not the same.


    Why exactly should praise and being valued more than others socially be two of those benefits? I guess my liberal side hasn't actually died. I'll stop before I start something.
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    Jan 29, 2016 5:33 PM GMT
    MrFuscle saidI find the gay community's relationship with vanity interesting. On one hand we elevate beauty and demand fitness. We gladly watch porn filled with guys on gear and even pay them to dance, strip or sexually pleasure us. We pick out every flaw in each other's bodies or faces. On the other hand we ridicule guys who take steroids, get plastic surgery, wear make up or are too quaffed. We treat other men like straight men treat women but judge them like straight women judge each other.



    Please speak for yourself. I personally am not attracted to the stereotypical ideal gay man. In fact, I'm turned off by it. The funniest thing is many of the gay clones find it absolutely unfathomable that someone could be attracted to something other than the norm. Case in point: I created a thread called "Rugged Men" and the queens came out of the woodwork saying things like "look at Radd trying to make people think guys like himself are hot." Other comments were "stop with all these disgusting "daddy threads." These idiots actually think everyone has the same type. I find flawless bodies boring and uninteresting. Give me a real guy with some solid core values like honesty, integrity and thoughtfulness over some gay looking model type any day.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 29, 2016 5:42 PM GMT
    Radd said
    MrFuscle saidI find the gay community's relationship with vanity interesting. On one hand we elevate beauty and demand fitness. We gladly watch porn filled with guys on gear and even pay them to dance, strip or sexually pleasure us. We pick out every flaw in each other's bodies or faces. On the other hand we ridicule guys who take steroids, get plastic surgery, wear make up or are too quaffed. We treat other men like straight men treat women but judge them like straight women judge each other.



    Please speak for yourself. I personally am not attracted to the stereotypical ideal gay man. In fact, I'm turned off by it. The funniest thing is many of the gay clones find it absolutely unfathomable that someone could be attracted to something other than the norm. Case in point: I created a thread called "Rugged Men" and the queens came out of the woodwork saying things like "look at Radd trying to make people think guys like himself are hot." Other comments were "stop with all these disgusting "daddy threads." These idiots actually think everyone has the same type. I find flawless bodies boring and uninteresting. Give me a real guy with some solid core values like honesty, integrity and thoughtfulness over some gay looking model type any day.

    You did get a nose job, though.