Venice, California Gay Bar ‘Roosterfish’ to Close After Nearly 40 Years

  • metta

    Posts: 39099

    Jan 29, 2016 1:58 AM GMT
    Venice, California Gay Bar ‘Roosterfish’ to Close After Nearly 40 Years

    http://www.towleroad.com/2016/01/roosterfish/


    That was the first gay bar that I ever walked into.
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    Feb 01, 2016 1:52 AM GMT


    Not another SoCal gay bar, geez icon_eek.gificon_sad.gif


    Roosterfish.jpg
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    Feb 01, 2016 4:07 AM GMT
    metta saidVenice, California Gay Bar ‘Roosterfish’ to Close After Nearly 40 Years

    http://www.towleroad.com/2016/01/roosterfish/


    That was the first gay bar that I ever walked into.


    I thought I met you somewhere. So that's where !!!!

    That was the closest bar to my house.

    "The landlord raised the rent"

    Yeah, I bet. The second highest rents on the west side (after 3rd st) are on Abbott Kenney.
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1032

    Feb 02, 2016 5:32 AM GMT
    Wow, that's a bit of a shock. I haven't been there in a few years but it was a comfortable place, a gay neighborhood pub that actually got a decent crowd. Now there'll be nothing on the West Side.

    And the other big surprise is that it actually was named after a kind of fish. I always thought the name was a clever play on words - a rooster is a cock, and a sucker is a fish.
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    Feb 02, 2016 5:43 AM GMT
    bro4bro saidWow, that's a bit of a shock. I haven't been there in a few years but it was a comfortable place, a gay neighborhood pub that actually got a decent crowd. Now there'll be nothing on the West Side.

    And the other big surprise is that it actually was named after a kind of fish. I always thought the name was a clever play on words - a rooster is a cock, and a sucker is a fish.


    With Ripples going and I presume Boom long gone, there'll be nothing on the west side up and down the coast.
  • metta

    Posts: 39099

    Feb 02, 2016 5:48 AM GMT
    I didn't hear about Ripples

    Club Ripples’ owners plan to retire, put Long Beach’s historic gay bar up for sale

    http://www.presstelegram.com/lifestyle/20160130/club-ripples-owners-plan-to-retire-put-long-beachs-historic-gay-bar-up-for-sale
  • metta

    Posts: 39099

    Feb 02, 2016 5:51 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    metta saidVenice, California Gay Bar ‘Roosterfish’ to Close After Nearly 40 Years

    http://www.towleroad.com/2016/01/roosterfish/


    That was the first gay bar that I ever walked into.


    I thought I met you somewhere. So that's where !!!!

    That was the closest bar to my house.

    "The landlord raised the rent"

    Yeah, I bet. The second highest rents on the west side (after 3rd st) are on Abbott Kenney.



    icon_smile.gif I doubt it. I have only been there that one time. I had a friend (at the time) take me quickly to that one first. Later he showed me WeHo and this tiny bar near the gay beach in Santa Monica. All during the middle of the day.
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    Feb 02, 2016 6:01 AM GMT
    metta said
    freedomisntfree said
    metta saidVenice, California Gay Bar ‘Roosterfish’ to Close After Nearly 40 Years

    http://www.towleroad.com/2016/01/roosterfish/


    That was the first gay bar that I ever walked into.


    I thought I met you somewhere. So that's where !!!!

    That was the closest bar to my house.

    "The landlord raised the rent"

    Yeah, I bet. The second highest rents on the west side (after 3rd st) are on Abbott Kenney.



    icon_smile.gif I doubt it. I have only been there that one time. I had a friend (at the time) take me quickly to that one first. Later he showed me WeHo and this tiny bar near the gay beach in Santa Monica. All during the middle of the day.


    What tiny bar in Santa Monica? I remember there being one, but can't cum up with the name.

    And Roosterfish for the first time, I was likely there for beer bust on late Sunday afternoon and early evening and the probably went to Mickey's later. I was at Mickey's and Cantina almost every Sunday. When I lived in Palos Verdes it was Ripples for Sunday beer bust.

    I was certainly out and about .... the little whore I was !!!!
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    Feb 02, 2016 6:24 AM GMT
    NOOOOOO! I love the Roosterfish! I had the highest Space Invaders score there for quite some time. It's one of the few good gay bars in the country. icon_cry.gif
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    Feb 02, 2016 6:35 AM GMT
    Radd saidNOOOOOO! I love the Roosterfish! I had the highest Space Invaders score there for quite some time. It's one of the few good gay bars in the country. icon_cry.gif


    I'll miss a bunch of them. From Circus to Factory to Ripples to Boom(long ago) to Roosterfish and more are to come.

    SoCal property values are so high right now that it's just not highest and best use for a bar. Once the next downturn hits we'll have a five or six year reprieve on bars closing.
  • metta

    Posts: 39099

    Feb 02, 2016 6:42 AM GMT
    I don't remember the name of the one in Santa Monica either. It was a little hole in the wall type place that people went to before/after going to the gay beach.
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    Feb 02, 2016 6:49 AM GMT
    metta saidI don't remember the name of the one in Santa Monica either. It was a little hole in the wall type place that people went to before/after going to the gay beach.


    I remember it but can't come up with the name.

    There was also a slightly larger hole in the wall bar in Redondo on Artesia (north side) west of Hawthorne, but before Sepulveda. Dolphin????
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    Feb 02, 2016 11:43 AM GMT
    The listing just went up for $204 sq ft NNN. Assuming pass-throughs are around a $15.00 sq ft their new rent would have been in the range of $43,000 per month. In fact, I might be low on the pass throughs if there's been a recent sale.

    Oh and they want $600,000 in key money for the contents.
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    Feb 02, 2016 1:58 PM GMT
    High rent is one of the things that drove gay businesses out of South Beach, Florida. It's almost done the same to Key West. And we're seeing some of it already here in Wilton Manors.

    It's a pattern like gentrification, or perhaps "colonization" would be more fitting. Gays move into a low-cost area and make improvements. It becomes profitable and straight investors see an opportunity to move in. They make an offer the gay property or business owner can't refuse.

    Or in some cases, the owners have aged, it's time for retirement anyway, and they have no one to whom they can pass their interests. So they cash in.

    Another gay business doesn't want to move in because costs have become too high. Especially when many of the potential buyers or renters are gays who want a start-up, like the original owners did, without a lot of money. So the gay entrepreneurs move on to find inexpensive opportunities elsewhere, and the gay colonizing process starts all over again.

    We saw that with South Beach, then it briefly shifted to the outlying areas around Miami. But those lacked an urban sense, so Fort Lauderdale to the north was next. Now it's adjacent Wilton Manors. Which is also seeing, BTW, the arrival of some gay "refugee" business owners from Key West. And 2 couples from Chicago whom we know.

    But neighboring Oakland Park is just getting started, and their city government is very active in seeking new business, including gay. Some gay businesses are abandoning Wilton Manors for them already, our own government having become complacent and do-nothing. But I think most of us knew that would happen, a normal part of the evolutionary process.
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    Feb 02, 2016 4:55 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidHigh rent is one of the things that drove gay businesses out of South Beach, Florida. It's almost done the same to Key West. And we're seeing some of it already here in Wilton Manors.

    It's a pattern like gentrification, or perhaps "colonization" would be more fitting. Gays move into a low-cost area and make improvements. It becomes profitable and straight investors see an opportunity to move in. They make an offer the gay property or business owner can't refuse.

    Or in some cases, the owners have aged, it's time for retirement anyway, and they have no one to whom they can pass their interests. So they cash in.

    And in the case of Ripples in Belmont Shore this is true. After doing the same anything for 30 - 40 years you get a little tired of it.

    And they know as well as anyone that a downturn is coming so they may not be able to cash out for five or six years at the valuations we're seeing today ..... not like we haven't been through all of this a few times before


    Another gay business doesn't want to move in because costs have become too high. Especially when many of the potential buyers or renters are gays who want a start-up, like the original owners did, without a lot of money. So the gay entrepreneurs move on to find inexpensive opportunities elsewhere, and the gay colonizing process starts all over again.

    We saw that with South Beach, then it briefly shifted to the outlying areas around Miami. But those lacked an urban sense, so Fort Lauderdale to the north was next. Now it's adjacent Wilton Manors. Which is also seeing, BTW, the arrival of some gay "refugee" business owners from Key West. And 2 couples from Chicago whom we know.

    But neighboring Oakland Park is just getting started, and their city government is very active in seeking new business, including gay. Some gay businesses are abandoning Wilton Manors for them already, our own government having become complacent and do-nothing. But I think most of us knew that would happen, a normal part of the evolutionary process.


    Roosterfish had been on a long lease so the increase to market was probably 5x. Do the math, how many drinks would you have to sell per day just to cover that rent? And in retail, you really don't want rents to be more than 5% of gross sales.
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    Feb 02, 2016 6:27 PM GMT
    Long gone Sta. Monica bar, at junction of Temescal and PCH = SS Friendship. Not a bad place. Roosterfish? Meh. In more recent years, the bartenders were bitchy. Anyone remember the old name of the bar located at the end of Stoner Ave. near Pico in WLA? It was known as Trilogy before it closed; I think it was Apache before that. They used to have a night where you could bring classical albums and they'd play them on the sound system. Right down the street from where I lived and totally cool! I think my favorite LA bar will always be the upstairs back bar at Studio One in WeHo, though Revolver could be a good time, too. Those were the days!
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    Feb 02, 2016 6:48 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidLong gone Sta. Monica bar, at junction of Temescal and PCH = SS Friendship. Not a bad place. Roosterfish? Meh. In more recent years, the bartenders were bitchy. Anyone remember the old name of the bar located at the end of Stoner Ave. near Pico in WLA? It was known as Trilogy before it closed; I think it was Apache before that. They used to have a night where you could bring classical albums and they'd play them on the sound system. Right down the street from where I lived and totally cool! I think my favorite LA bar will always be the upstairs back bar at Studio One in WeHo, though Revolver could be a good time, too. Those were the days!


    "SS Friendship"

    YES !!!!!! My poor memory.

    "I think my favorite LA bar will always be the upstairs back bar at Studio One in WeHo"

    Back when it was a rice queen and potato queen bar? Was it Back Lot then? I can't remember that one either .... not like I wasn't there enough.

    "classical albums and they'd play them on the sound system"

    Oh yeah, just what I'd want them doing with my albums.
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    Feb 02, 2016 6:58 PM GMT
    Yes, Back Lot, good call! Some REALLY good looking guys used to hang there. I met the guy who worked at the Hertz location at Wilshire and Westwood and starred in one of their commercials there one night. He was a really nice guy, and we had a nice little affair going while I lived in LA. Apache handled everyone's records with the TLC that only gay aficionados can muster.
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    Feb 02, 2016 10:04 PM GMT
    MGINSD saidYes, Back Lot, good call! Some REALLY good looking guys used to hang there. I met the guy who worked at the Hertz location at Wilshire and Westwood and starred in one of their commercials there one night. He was a really nice guy, and we had a nice little affair going while I lived in LA. Apache handled everyone's records with the TLC that only gay aficionados can muster.


    I was mostly a rice and bean queen in those days so I had a big bunch of fun between Back Lot and Arena ... and Faces of course (Western and Santa Monica) and before that .... Odyssey if you recall that one !!!!!! Early to mid 80s I believe. On the NE corner across from Beverly Center.
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    Feb 02, 2016 10:18 PM GMT
    Speaking of Odyssey



    Halloween 1981. Five parts to the vids. I'm scared to look because I know I was there. I hate to see vids of me dancing when I was a kid so I don't think I'm going to watch the rest of them. Mortified !!!!
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    Feb 02, 2016 11:07 PM GMT
    Castro too

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/02/san-francisco-gay-bars-shut-down-lgbt-tenderloin-castro-district
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    Feb 02, 2016 11:37 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Roosterfish had been on a long lease so the increase to market was probably 5x. Do the math, how many drinks would you have to sell per day just to cover that rent? And in retail, you really don't want rents to be more than 5% of gross sales.

    We personally know almost every gay bar & restaurant owner in Wilton Manors. And a few in Key West. So we know from the gay business owners themselves that the model you describe of rising operating costs is correct. The operators eventually fall below the profitability point and must sell.

    It would seem crazy on the part of the landlords, to ruin a cash cow for themselves. But some also want to cash-out, by selling the property for condo development at a cash windfall, a great money maker down here (until we have another housing bubble burst). Or for a really large retail operation.

    But Wilton Manors has a 4-story building limit, so no mega condos or apartments are possible. Plus the first floors along the sidewalk must be devoted solely to commercial business rentals. That sorta limits the property speculators, as intended.

    But it works somewhat imperfectly, and the commercial rent is sky-high, so there's as much vacant space as occupied. And many businesses displaced when their former buildings were sold and torn down for these condos and city townhouses, have moved to neighboring Oakland Park for lower costs. Until, of course, the developers decide to exploit that latest opportunity.

    It's a never-ending cycle. Nor WILL it end.
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    Feb 02, 2016 11:50 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    freedomisntfree said
    Roosterfish had been on a long lease so the increase to market was probably 5x. Do the math, how many drinks would you have to sell per day just to cover that rent? And in retail, you really don't want rents to be more than 5% of gross sales.

    We personally know almost every gay bar & restaurant owner in Wilton Manors. And a few in Key West. So we know from the gay business owners themselves that the model you describe of rising operating costs is correct. The operators eventually fall below the profitability point and must sell.

    It would seem crazy on the part of the landlords, to ruin a cash cow for themselves. But some also want to cash-out, by selling the property for condo development at a cash windfall, a great money maker down here (until we have another housing bubble burst). Or for a really large retail operation.

    But Wilton Manors has a 4-story building limit, so no mega condos or apartments are possible. Plus the first floors along the sidewalk must be devoted solely to commercial business rentals. That sorta limits the property speculators, as intended.

    But it works somewhat imperfectly, and the commercial rent is sky-high, so there's as much vacant space as occupied. And many businesses displaced when their former buildings were sold and torn down for these condos and city townhouses, have moved to neighboring Oakland Park for lower costs. Until, of course, the developers decide to exploit that latest opportunity.

    It's a never-ending cycle. Nor WILL it end.


    Most expensive retail rent you guys have is a former bar at 2309 N Dixie Hwy. Your rents generally seem to be in the range of $15 - $20 a foot, which isn't high at all.

    We're seeing as high as $420 sq ft on 3rd street and $250 sq ft on Abbott Kenney where Rooster is located. Unsustainable for a bar. Makes happy hour a big money losing proposition.
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    Feb 03, 2016 12:23 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Most expensive retail rent you guys have is a former bar at 2309 N Dixie Hwy. Your rents seem to be in the range of $15 - $18 a foot, which isn't high at all.
    Wilton Manors, FL 33305

    We're seeing as high as $420 sq ft on 3rd street and $250 sq ft on Abbott Kenney where Rooster is located. Unsustainable for a bar. Makes happy hour a big money losing proposition.

    I'll ask for some examples of exactly what the rental rates are. They've told me only in terms of properties, not per square foot.

    But then it's relative to the cost of surrounding properties. And patrons will go to places that can offer the lowest food & drinks prices in the area. At least for simple fare & socializing with friends. Which is largely driven by operating costs, and competition.

    For something special you make an exception. Three of us went for lunch today in Fort Lauderdale, with 2 getting the 2-pound lobster (not me, for once). The bill was quite a bit over $100.

    But that's not what we do in Wilton Manors, and not what the market currently will bear. Our drinks are actually among the least expensive in the area, part of what drives the attraction for people to come here. Mixed drinks are usually $6.50 for 2, less for beer, I think maybe 2.50, during Happy Hour. Which for most places is from their 11 AM opening until 9 PM.

    Stop that, and they'll no longer come here.
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    Feb 03, 2016 12:27 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    freedomisntfree said
    Most expensive retail rent you guys have is a former bar at 2309 N Dixie Hwy. Your rents seem to be in the range of $15 - $18 a foot, which isn't high at all.
    Wilton Manors, FL 33305

    We're seeing as high as $420 sq ft on 3rd street and $250 sq ft on Abbott Kenney where Rooster is located. Unsustainable for a bar. Makes happy hour a big money losing proposition.

    I'll ask for some examples of exactly what the rental rates are. They've told me only in terms of properties, not per square foot.

    But then it's relative to the cost of surrounding properties. And patrons will go to places that can offer the lowest food & drinks prices in the area. At least for simple fare & socializing with friends. Which is largely driven by operating costs, and competition.

    For something special you make an exception. Three of us went for lunch today, with 2 getting the 2-pound lobster (not me, for once). The bill was quite a bit over $100.

    But that's not what we do in Wilton Manors, and not what the market currently will bear. Our drinks are actually among the least expensive in the area, part of what drives the attraction for people to come here. Mixed drinks are usually $6.50 for 2, less for beer, during Happy Hour. Which for most places is from their 11 AM opening until 9 PM.

    Stop that, and they'll no longer come here.


    "I'll ask for some examples of exactly what the rental rates are. They've told me only in terms of properties, not per square foot."

    I've got them.