Date Frustration -- Any thoughts?

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    Jan 30, 2016 10:40 PM GMT
    I live in NYC. Fairly easy to meet guys here, but finding "the" guy you want to really be with -- not so easy. That's OK, that's pretty much everyone's problem.

    But almost as hard -- making gay friends. Just FRIENDS who I can hang with, talk to, do movies, museums, or the gym, etc. I've got plenty of straight friends, but it would be nice to have some buddies who are gay who I can relate to, y'know?

    Problem is, the guys I meet either want a relationship -- or nothing.

    And they want the relationship right away. Like after 2-3 dates. If they sense (or if I tell them) that I just want friendship, or if I don't hop into bed with them by then, they're done. No matter how well the dates have gone otherwise, I never hear from them again. They just ghost me, and that's it.

    I don't want to sound like it's all their fault. Maybe it's me.

    Any ideas?





  • Artichokey

    Posts: 20

    Jan 30, 2016 11:02 PM GMT
    Well, maybe you should be clear from the start.
    Most people see dating as a kind of necessary work to be done to get an outcome, that means sex or in your case, the dates want a relationship.
    Now you tell them that you don't want any of those two things, instead you want a friendship.
    They may see it as failed attempt and wasted time, time they could have invested in another guy who could satisfy their desired results.

    And maybe you shouldn't shut them down with the friendzone when they're asking for a relationship or sex, but tell them you want a few more dates. ;)
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    Jan 30, 2016 11:26 PM GMT
    girl friend or someone much older?
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    Jan 30, 2016 11:38 PM GMT
    Artichokey saidWell, maybe you should be clear from the start.
    Most people see dating as a kind of necessary work to be done to get an outcome, that means sex or in your case, the dates want a relationship.
    Now you tell them that you don't want any of those two things, instead you want a friendship.
    They may see it as failed attempt and wasted time, time they could have invested in another guy who could satisfy their desired results.

    And maybe you shouldn't shut them down with the friendzone when they're asking for a relationship or sex, but tell them you want a few more dates. ;)


    Good advice, and thanks. I do think that's part of it -- they see it as wasted time and really aren't into the friend thing.

    Also, as you suggested, I have told them to give things time, see where things go, etc. But that doesn't seem to work, they seem to be in a hurry.

    Again, thanks for the thoughts, I appreciate it much icon_smile.gif
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    Jan 30, 2016 11:39 PM GMT
    pellaz saidgirl friend or someone much older?


    Great suggestion, and I may try both of those things. Thanks.
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    Jan 30, 2016 11:49 PM GMT
    LittleDudeWithMuscles said
    Artichokey saidWell, maybe you should be clear from the start.
    Most people see dating as a kind of necessary work to be done to get an outcome, that means sex or in your case, the dates want a relationship.
    Now you tell them that you don't want any of those two things, instead you want a friendship.
    They may see it as failed attempt and wasted time, time they could have invested in another guy who could satisfy their desired results.

    And maybe you shouldn't shut them down with the friendzone when they're asking for a relationship or sex, but tell them you want a few more dates. ;)


    Good advice, and thanks. I do think that's part of it -- they see it as wasted time and really aren't into the friend thing.

    Also, as you suggested, I have told them to give things time, see where things go, etc. But that doesn't seem to work, they seem to be in a hurry.

    Again, thanks for the thoughts, I appreciate it much icon_smile.gif


    Maybe he'll be willing to look for friends *after* finding a relationship. If you're offering a date then you're kind of pretending to acknowledge his needs but (perhaps unintentionally) sabotaging his efforts in the end.

    There's a difference between not wanting friends at all and making finding a relationship your top priority. If all you want is a friend then specifically targeting the guys who are putting a lot of time and effort into finding a relationship isn't a particularly true-friend thing to do.

    I don't know what your options are, but group/community activities are probably a much more honest place to find friends than dates. You might even want to try to meet couples, though I'll admit I've heard the complaint that gay couples for some reason seem to avoid hanging out with singles.
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    Jan 31, 2016 12:01 AM GMT
    anotherphil said
    LittleDudeWithMuscles said
    Artichokey saidWell, maybe you should be clear from the start.
    Most people see dating as a kind of necessary work to be done to get an outcome, that means sex or in your case, the dates want a relationship.
    Now you tell them that you don't want any of those two things, instead you want a friendship.
    They may see it as failed attempt and wasted time, time they could have invested in another guy who could satisfy their desired results.

    And maybe you shouldn't shut them down with the friendzone when they're asking for a relationship or sex, but tell them you want a few more dates. ;)


    Good advice, and thanks. I do think that's part of it -- they see it as wasted time and really aren't into the friend thing.

    Also, as you suggested, I have told them to give things time, see where things go, etc. But that doesn't seem to work, they seem to be in a hurry.

    Again, thanks for the thoughts, I appreciate it much icon_smile.gif


    Maybe he'll be willing to look for friends *after* finding a relationship. If you're offering a date then you're kind of pretending to acknowledge his needs but (perhaps unintentionally) sabotaging his efforts in the end.

    There's a difference between not wanting friends at all and making finding a relationship your top priority. If all you want is a friend then specifically targeting the guys who are putting a lot of time and effort into finding a relationship isn't a particularly true-friend thing to do.

    I don't know what your options are, but group/community activities are probably a much more honest place to find friends than dates. You might even want to try to meet couples, though I'll admit I've heard the complaint that gay couples for some reason seem to avoid hanging out with singles.


    All makes sense. Thanks very much. I will look into more group-type activities...in NYC, plenty of those are around, for sure! Thanks!
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    Jan 31, 2016 12:18 AM GMT
    anotherphil said
    LittleDudeWithMuscles said
    Artichokey said


    I don't know what your options are, but group/community activities are probably a much more honest place to find friends than dates. You might even want to try to meet couples, though I'll admit I've heard the complaint that gay couples for some reason seem to avoid hanging out with singles.


    I think anotherphil is right on - If you want friendships (which are difficult and slow to form at any time), don't expect them to result out of "dates". If one does result out of dating, you are lucky.

    Friendships most commonly result out of shared time together, pursuing common interests. Whether you are into growing orchids, playing bridge, cycling, running, sailing, or astrology, there are undoubtedly groups in the area where you will meet people with the same interests. Gay groups, and also not especially "gay" groups, who will have gay members.
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    Jan 31, 2016 12:24 AM GMT
    HikerSkier said
    anotherphil said
    LittleDudeWithMuscles said
    Artichokey said


    I don't know what your options are, but group/community activities are probably a much more honest place to find friends than dates. You might even want to try to meet couples, though I'll admit I've heard the complaint that gay couples for some reason seem to avoid hanging out with singles.


    I think anotherphil is right on - If you want friendships (which are difficult and slow to form at any time), don't expect them to result out of "dates". If one does result out of dating, you are lucky.

    Friendships most commonly result out of shared time together, pursuing common interests. Whether you are into growing orchids, playing bridge, cycling, running, sailing, or astrology, there are undoubtedly groups in the area where you will meet people with the same interests. Gay groups, and also not especially "gay" groups, who will have gay members.


    Yep. Totally agree. I'll try some group-type things. Thanks very much.
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    Jan 31, 2016 12:34 AM GMT
    One footnote, just so no one misunderstands -- my primary search is for a LTR too icon_smile.gif So I am looking for more than just friends.

    But if things don't go that way, maintaining a friendship with these guys would still be nice.
  • BloodFlame

    Posts: 1768

    Jan 31, 2016 5:34 AM GMT
    It really does seem like it's very hard to find gay guys to be strictly platonic friends with since a lot of guys are looking for hookups or for a relationship.

    I have to ask this? What's so bad with having straight friends? I mean, I know the obvious (not being able to talk about guys you fancy around straight guys) but aside from that, does it really matter? I'd just say cherish what you have with your straight friends who really do care about you.

    But to answer your question. Definitely make it clear what you're looking for from the get-go. Second, perhaps try meeting gay couples. They may seem more open to friendship over a single gay guy. Three, definitely try to meet guys offline. I'm sure you can meet platonic gay guys online on apps but the odds seem fairly low because most guys are just wanting to hook up.

    I hope this helps icon_smile.gif
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 875

    Jan 31, 2016 6:24 AM GMT
    You want to try and put yourself in this other dude's shoes.

    You, too, want an LTR, but would be happy with just gay friends, too. They probably feel the same way, but are wondering if they can afford platonic gay friendships in this time and age. They are working, trying to keep their careers on course, pay their bills, keep their households running, hit the gym regularly, spend some time with their already existing friends, get laid at least sometimes... Starting new, purely platonic friendships with other gay guys is really usually not topping the priorities...It's a nice thought and all, but practically, not much ever pans out of this.

    The other side of this story is that many gay guys out there happen to be sexually positive folks. Having casual, NSA sex with them basically validates your friendship. It does not by any chance kill the idea of an otherwise usual friendship between the two gay guys. You may want to share this view or not, but a few gay guys see their sexually positive attitude as a big part of their personality, for better or worse, and are not enthusiastic about being friends with someone who may be projecting a profoundly different attitude.

    And last and not least, friendships need contents these days. In your HS days, well the HS was really your content. These days, you want to have a shared interest that bonds people together. If you put something both interesting and attractive on the table, the folks are likely to see you in a different light, tooicon_biggrin.gif

    SC

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    Jan 31, 2016 6:38 AM GMT
    Yeah, I have met my fill of overly-clingy guys. Like they're planning the wedding on the first date (and they're not getting to second base. Full stop.)

    One solution is not to look for "friends," but look for sports buddies. Friendship, and maybe more, might grow out of that. But it doesn't imply any commitment out of the gate.
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    Jan 31, 2016 2:53 PM GMT
    LittleDudeWithMuscles saidOne footnote, just so no one misunderstands -- my primary search is for a LTR too icon_smile.gif So I am looking for more than just friends.

    But if things don't go that way, maintaining a friendship with these guys would still be nice.


    I feel for you. The vast majority of gay men are such damaged goods on all fronts. I'm glad I found the rare decent one. I recognized it and proposed marriage within a year. My advice to gay men looking for decent gay men for friendship and/or relationships would be get out of places like NYC, WeHo, Miami, Dallas. There seems a plethora of the stereotypical self-centered gay men have flocked to those towns. I'm not saying you can't find a gem or two there but it's like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack.

    I agree you need to be up front and tell dates that your ultimate goal is a LTR and that you won't be jumping into bed with them at the end of the date or the second or the third or whenever unless you feel a connection. That bit of information will weed out the self-centered ones just looking for a quick fuck right off the bat.

    Also, looking for group activities is good advice.
  • Antarktis

    Posts: 213

    Jan 31, 2016 4:46 PM GMT
    HOw old are your dates? 2-3 dates...?
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    Jan 31, 2016 5:57 PM GMT
    BloodFlame saidIt really does seem like it's very hard to find gay guys to be strictly platonic friends with since a lot of guys are looking for hookups or for a relationship.

    I have to ask this? What's so bad with having straight friends? I mean, I know the obvious (not being able to talk about guys you fancy around straight guys) but aside from that, does it really matter? I'd just say cherish what you have with your straight friends who really do care about you.

    But to answer your question. Definitely make it clear what you're looking for from the get-go. Second, perhaps try meeting gay couples. They may seem more open to friendship over a single gay guy. Three, definitely try to meet guys offline. I'm sure you can meet platonic gay guys online on apps but the odds seem fairly low because most guys are just wanting to hook up.

    I hope this helps icon_smile.gif


    Thanks, BloodFlame. And you're right, nothing wrong with having straight friends. It's just that it would be so great to have some gay friends who understand things a little better, y'know?

    And yes, as you suggested, one of the things I've resolved to do is make things more clear from the outset. Good advice, many thanks.
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    Jan 31, 2016 5:59 PM GMT
    SilverRRCloud saidYou want to try and put yourself in this other dude's shoes.

    You, too, want an LTR, but would be happy with just gay friends, too. They probably feel the same way, but are wondering if they can afford platonic gay friendships in this time and age. They are working, trying to keep their careers on course, pay their bills, keep their households running, hit the gym regularly, spend some time with their already existing friends, get laid at least sometimes... Starting new, purely platonic friendships with other gay guys is really usually not topping the priorities...It's a nice thought and all, but practically, not much ever pans out of this.

    The other side of this story is that many gay guys out there happen to be sexually positive folks. Having casual, NSA sex with them basically validates your friendship. It does not by any chance kill the idea of an otherwise usual friendship between the two gay guys. You may want to share this view or not, but a few gay guys see their sexually positive attitude as a big part of their personality, for better or worse, and are not enthusiastic about being friends with someone who may be projecting a profoundly different attitude.

    And last and not least, friendships need contents these days. In your HS days, well the HS was really your content. These days, you want to have a shared interest that bonds people together. If you put something both interesting and attractive on the table, the folks are likely to see you in a different light, tooicon_biggrin.gif

    SC




    Good points, SilverRRCloud. Thanks very much for the input.
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    Jan 31, 2016 6:01 PM GMT
    mindgarden saidYeah, I have met my fill of overly-clingy guys. Like they're planning the wedding on the first date (and they're not getting to second base. Full stop.)

    One solution is not to look for "friends," but look for sports buddies. Friendship, and maybe more, might grow out of that. But it doesn't imply any commitment out of the gate.



    Thanks very much, MindGarden. Yes, that's one of the issues...guys who want things to move so fast. Appreciate the input.
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    Jan 31, 2016 6:03 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan said
    LittleDudeWithMuscles saidOne footnote, just so no one misunderstands -- my primary search is for a LTR too icon_smile.gif So I am looking for more than just friends.

    But if things don't go that way, maintaining a friendship with these guys would still be nice.


    I feel for you. The vast majority of gay men are such damaged goods on all fronts. I'm glad I found the rare decent one. I recognized it and proposed marriage within a year. My advice to gay men looking for decent gay men for friendship and/or relationships would be get out of places like NYC, WeHo, Miami, Dallas. There seems a plethora of the stereotypical self-centered gay men have flocked to those towns. I'm not saying you can't find a gem or two there but it's like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack.

    I agree you need to be up front and tell dates that your ultimate goal is a LTR and that you won't be jumping into bed with them at the end of the date or the second or the third or whenever unless you feel a connection. That bit of information will weed out the self-centered ones just looking for a quick fuck right off the bat.

    Also, looking for group activities is good advice.


    Thanks UndercoverMan. And right, from here on I'll try to be a bit more upfront, in a nice way. And congrats on finding the right guy, that's great!!!
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    Jan 31, 2016 6:04 PM GMT
    Antarktis saidHOw old are your dates? 2-3 dates...?


    Antarktis -- one date was my age. Another was 10 years younger. The other, about 20 years younger.
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    Jan 31, 2016 6:25 PM GMT
    I think it's human gay male nature to be friends with dudes that you eventually want to sleep with. Lol, there's nothing worse than getting into a friend zone with a potential romantic partner. Lol, I had problems with gay friends too. It's sad but I don't know, I just have less of a drama free time and have better relationship advice from my straight friends. Most of the gay friends I had in the past, well they either tried to get into my pants, I wasn't interested, or I like them and they don't like me back in that way. icon_redface.gificon_redface.gificon_redface.gif
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    Jan 31, 2016 7:22 PM GMT
    laxwill10 saidI think it's human gay male nature to be friends with dudes that you eventually want to sleep with. Lol, there's nothing worse than getting into a friend zone with a potential romantic partner. Lol, I had problems with gay friends too. It's sad but I don't know, I just have less of a drama free time and have better relationship advice from my straight friends. Most of the gay friends I had in the past, well they either tried to get into my pants, I wasn't interested, or I like them and they don't like me back in that way. icon_redface.gificon_redface.gificon_redface.gif



    Totally understand. Thanks Laxwill.
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    Jan 31, 2016 8:20 PM GMT
    LittleDudeWithMuscles saidI live in NYC. Fairly easy to meet guys here, but finding "the" guy you want to really be with -- not so easy. That's OK, that's pretty much everyone's problem.

    But almost as hard -- making gay friends. Just FRIENDS who I can hang with, talk to, do movies, museums, or the gym, etc. I've got plenty of straight friends, but it would be nice to have some buddies who are gay who I can relate to, y'know?

    Problem is, the guys I meet either want a relationship -- or nothing.

    And they want the relationship right away. Like after 2-3 dates. If they sense (or if I tell them) that I just want friendship, or if I don't hop into bed with them by then, they're done. No matter how well the dates have gone otherwise, I never hear from them again. They just ghost me, and that's it.

    I don't want to sound like it's all their fault. Maybe it's me.

    Any ideas?



    When two guys meet, they are meeting with some expectation of it being a hit with some degree of sexual chemistry/interest. That desire underpins the whole process. If there isn't any, it takes some degree of maturity to want to continue to develop a platonic relationship. You have to ask yourself: "on what foundation would such a relationship be based?" Think of yourself- how many guys have you turned down in the past, who wanted to develop a platonic relationship with you, but you did not feel any desire for them and consequently didn't invest the time to do so? We all have been there... It's part of human dynamics. Before I met the love of my life, 4 out of every 5 guy had no interest in developing a platonic relationship if I told them I had no sexual interest in them.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Jan 31, 2016 8:22 PM GMT
    If you think about it, you become friends with someone because you have something in common. When you're a child, it might just be proximity, a next door neighbor, and later, during school years, the school itself and the things going on in the school. Most new friends after college come from the work you do and then extend to people they are friends with. Connections.

    What doesn't happen is you post on a website saying I want a friend or if you're my type, it might become more. That's not how friends happen. (Or relationships start, for that matter.) Do the things you enjoy and be aware of others out there who enjoy doing that stuff, too. But don't expect to develop the kind of friendship you had as a kid. It doesn't work that way in the land of adults.
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    Jan 31, 2016 8:46 PM GMT
    LittleDudeWithMuscles saidOne footnote, just so no one misunderstands -- my primary search is for a LTR too icon_smile.gif So I am looking for more than just friends.

    But if things don't go that way, maintaining a friendship with these guys would still be nice.


    I did misunderstand that completely. Sorry about that.

    Still, my suggestion only changes slightly: make sure you *also* make time for whatever community/social activities (preferably reasonably small groups in a conversational setting) you can. The guys you meet there are still more likely to have well-rounded social lives, and if nothing else you'll hopefully expand your network of first-name-basis gay acquaintances even if you don't necessarily find good friends there.

    Plus it's convenient conversation fodder for the dates, and if you're really lucky you might find enough overlap that you run into some guys you know and like without having to make time for each platonic friend (or more to the point, without having to ask them to make time for platonic friendships) separately.

    Good luck; I'm sure you'll find something that works.