Study suggests religion will go extinct in at least nine countries

  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Feb 06, 2016 7:07 AM GMT
    Study suggests religion will go extinct in at least nine countries

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/02/05/study-suggests-religion-will-go-extinct-in-at-least-nine-countries/



    I don't think it will happen. I think the imperfect human brain is wired for it to some extent. Why else would humans create thousands of Gods/Religions all over the World throughout the centuries? I mean, from a historical perspective, I understand that there were religions created prior to governments and that they were probably originally created in order to get society to behave in a certain manner. But it is human beings that gripped onto these beliefs dearly, again and again, throughout the ages.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Feb 06, 2016 2:06 PM GMT
    metta saidStudy suggests religion will go extinct in at least nine countries

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/02/05/study-suggests-religion-will-go-extinct-in-at-least-nine-countries/



    I don't think it will happen. I think the imperfect human brain is wired for it to some extent. Why else would humans create thousands of Gods/Religions all over the World throughout the centuries? I mean, from a historical perspective, I understand that there were religions created prior to governments and that they were probably originally created in order to get society to behave in a certain manner. But it is human beings that gripped onto these beliefs dearly, again and again, throughout the ages.
    In those nine referenced countries, I am not surprised that religious belief could become extinct. Even among immigrant groups fleeing persecution in theocracies like Iran and Saudi Arabia, when these people get a good taste of freedom in these countries and they become more educated, they will eventually become much less religious and eventually abandon their religion altogether. In addition to those nine countries, I am surprised that Iceland, Norway, Sweden, and Germany didn't get included in this list which would have expanded it to thirteen countries.
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    Feb 06, 2016 2:23 PM GMT
    Organized religion will probably never go extinct, because it contains a profit/power motive and is impossible to disprove.

    But religion is different from spirituality. Prayer, meditation and rituals are important parts to people's lives and will remain so. Most people have a sense that unknown sources of energy exist in the universe.
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    Feb 06, 2016 4:39 PM GMT
    Anyone championing this is mistaken. There are fundamental moral and ethical values tied to religion, especially the forms of Protestantism found in those countries, which many believe are the reason why Commonwealth nations and northern European countries have had such economic success & general prosperity. Human beings need a sense of values to which they can adhere, and many have difficulty developing their own without some basic Christian base (in originally Christian nations).

    It is totally untrue that immigrants in these countries will "abandon their religion" altogether once they "get a taste of freedom." Many of them cling to it more upon immigrating and become deeper fundamentalists, especially within Islam (as I have witnessed firsthand numerous times). If it were true that 'religion' is becoming extinct in Europe, then why is Islamic adherence growing so rapidly on the Continent?

    Just remember, in Europe, Christianity is what drove out the 1st Muslim conquest, because of a common religious unity. As Christianity dies in Europe, other religious forms will try to usurp, as is seen with the massive demographic expansion of Islam on the Continent.

    The roots of humanity are not Utopian as ideologues would like to believe. It is originally Christian nations who founded the principles of the rights of man - not Islam. If essence of Christianity dies out, the essence of the West's foundation dies, and so do the concepts of inherent liberties.
  • courtnyou

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    Feb 06, 2016 4:58 PM GMT
    couldn't happen soon enough!
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    Feb 06, 2016 5:00 PM GMT
    naturalmuscle01 saidAnyone championing this is mistaken. There are fundamental moral and ethical values tied to religion, especially the forms of Protestantism found in those countries, which many believe are the reason why Commonwealth nations and northern European countries have had such economic success & general prosperity. Human beings need a sense of values to which they can adhere, and many have difficulty developing their own without some basic Christian base (in originally Christian nations).

    It is totally untrue that immigrants in these countries will "abandon their religion" altogether once they "get a taste of freedom." Many of them cling to it more upon immigrating and become deeper fundamentalists, especially within Islam (as I have witnessed firsthand numerous times). If it were true that 'religion' is becoming extinct in Europe, then why is Islamic adherence growing so rapidly on the Continent?

    Just remember, in Europe, Christianity is what drove out the 1st Muslim conquest, because of a common religious unity. As Christianity dies in Europe, other religious forms will try to usurp, as is seen with the massive demographic expansion of Islam on the Continent.

    The roots of humanity are not Utopian as ideologues would like to believe. It is originally Christian nations who founded the principles of the rights of man - not Islam. If essence of Christianity dies out, the essence of the West's foundation dies, and so do the concepts of inherent liberties.


    I think this makes a lot of sense, and must be strongly considered. Central tenants of Christianity such as forgiveness, turning the other cheek, God wanting us to make the most of our talents, etc. are the building blocks of a free society.

    The Middle East has been warring for centuries because Muslims and Jews are locked in a battle for revenge. Compare that to Christian nations such as Great Britain and the US who forgave each other and moved on - much to our mutual benefit!
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    Feb 06, 2016 5:01 PM GMT
    A step in the right direction.
  • bro4bro

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    Feb 06, 2016 6:02 PM GMT
    naturalmuscle01 saidIt is originally Christian nations who founded the principles of the rights of man - not Islam. If essence of Christianity dies out, the essence of the West's foundation dies, and so do the concepts of inherent liberties.


    I guess you never heard of Socrates? Plato? Aristotle?

    The ancient Greeks were the ones who developed the essence of Western thought, as well as the Western moral code, all the while believing (to varying degrees) in Zeus, Poseidon, Athena, and the rest of the whole pantheon. The "Golden Rule" much vaunted as a pillar of Christianity (Do unto others...) was a common principle in Greek philosophy dating back to at least the 7th century BC, and in fact existed in one form or another in nearly every ancient culture and religion, including the ancient Egyptians, Persians, Hindus, Buddhists...

    The one original contribution of Christianity to world philosophy was the concept of forgiveness. It's a very worthy ideal... but it also happens to be the one modern Christians have the most trouble with.
  • waccamatt

    Posts: 1918

    Feb 06, 2016 6:36 PM GMT
    The sooner the world rids itself of religion, the better off we will all be.
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    Feb 06, 2016 7:03 PM GMT
    waccamatt said
    The sooner the world rids itself of religion, the better off we will all be.

    Agreed. The sooner the better. Religion is the source of much of the evil, the political unrest, the conflicts and terrorism in the world today.
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1034

    Feb 06, 2016 7:23 PM GMT
    Well as Metta said, that's not likely. The human brain is predispositioned to buy into faith-based belief systems. A specific region of the brain (the "God Spot") has been tentatively identified by researchers (and highly disputed, of course) as the source of our longing for religion.

    Sadly, as people abandon traditional church-based religions, they tend to pick up other irrational, faith-based belief systems, some common ones being politics (left and right), environmentalism, animal rights... these things of course all have a basis in reality but are adopted essentially as surrogate religions by people who are more than willing to close their eyes to the reality and blindly buy into a convenient fiction, based on nothing more than some imagined utopian ideal.
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    Feb 07, 2016 12:30 AM GMT
    The paper was published in 2011. A physicist attempts to model human behavior. He will be about as successful as those who think they are accurately modeling the Earth's climate.

    http://arxiv.org/pdf/1012.1375v2.pdf

  • coaster597

    Posts: 11

    Feb 07, 2016 3:45 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    waccamatt said
    The sooner the world rids itself of religion, the better off we will all be.

    Agreed. The sooner the better. Religion is the source of much of the evil, the political unrest, the conflicts and terrorism in the world today.


    Human fallibility is the source of all evil and conflict in the world. One day humans might rid themselves of religion, but we will never rid ourselves of being fallible.
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    Feb 07, 2016 5:13 AM GMT
    Jesus Christ is the Way,The Truth and The Life.The Alpha and the Omega.The Christian Faith will endure until Christ returns in glory.Nobody need worry about a generation of ignorant poorly educated I'll mannered youth destroying the faith.The Church has faced much worse and survived.
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    Feb 07, 2016 5:47 AM GMT
    bro4bro saidWell as Metta said, that's not likely. The human brain is predispositioned to buy into faith-based belief systems. A specific region of the brain (the "God Spot") has been tentatively identified by researchers (and highly disputed, of course) as the source of our longing for religion.

    Sadly, as people abandon traditional church-based religions, they tend to pick up other irrational, faith-based belief systems, some common ones being politics (left and right), environmentalism, animal rights... these things of course all have a basis in reality but are adopted essentially as surrogate religions by people who are more than willing to close their eyes to the reality and blindly buy into a convenient fiction, based on nothing more than some imagined utopian ideal.




    Where the modern "church" went wrong was to become "organized" into a political force. Mother Teresa is an example what is Christ like and good about the church and the Televangelist and those like them is an example of what's evil about being organized. The misinterpretations and rewritings of 'morality' (bible) and secular humanism (constitution) have resulted in these political and control freak charlatans and their evil minds that have hidden behind the curtain for so many years. Its much like the Matrix programming, there is what you see or believe to be real, then there is reality

    Again, all religions are set in paganism, although a certain religion (Christianity) continues to deny its pagan roots while pointing fingers at all other religions who may or may not accept their own pagan origins.

    There is power (spiritual) in paganism so I don't think religions will disappear, eventually there wont be a need for formal "organization" when most people finally discover its secrets. It is the very nature of its secrets that those in religious power have held for centuries and don't want "lower life forms" to know about. The brains "Gods spot"?, yes the pineal gland also known as the third eye chakra. Until you have unlocked its power, most people are still in the dark. And those in powerful positions who know and use the secrets, wish to keep it that way. This is why Christians are the biggest hypocrites of them all.

    I cant imagine a world where everyone knows the secret, this will be the 'end of religion' as we know it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism


    It is crucial to stress right from the start that until the 20th century people did not call themselves pagans to describe the religion they practised. The notion of paganism, as it is generally understood today, was created by the early Christian Church. It was a label that Christians applied to others, one of the antitheses that were central to the process of Christian self-definition. As such, throughout history it was generally used in a derogatory sense.

    — Owen Davies, 2011
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    Feb 07, 2016 6:33 AM GMT
    metta saidStudy suggests religion will go extinct in at least nine countries

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/02/05/study-suggests-religion-will-go-extinct-in-at-least-nine-countries/



    I don't think it will happen. I think the imperfect human brain is wired for it to some extent. Why else would humans create thousands of Gods/Religions all over the World throughout the centuries? I mean, from a historical perspective, I understand that there were religions created prior to governments and that they were probably originally created in order to get society to behave in a certain manner. But it is human beings that gripped onto these beliefs dearly, again and again, throughout the ages.


    Agreed, though "imperfect" could be overly specific. From what little I understand of genetics, a very large amount of data in the human genome is not actively used, but fodder for mutation should it ever prove useful. Seems to me that religion ties together a lot of overflow intellectual capacity and memetic data that hasn't found a better evolutionary outlet.

    Imagination and a fascination with the unseen need not be culled from every individual who cannot put them to good use (were such a thing even possible). I can see how religion would "all but die out" in small pockets of civilization where those attributes can be channeled in more productive directions, but I agree that it seems unlikely for the general population.
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    Feb 07, 2016 7:13 PM GMT
    WickedRyan saidThe Church has faced much worse and survived.


    One might point out, so have Islam, Hinduism, Budism and others -

    Will the real god please stand up?
  • metta

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    Feb 08, 2016 8:04 PM GMT
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    Feb 09, 2016 12:37 AM GMT
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 09, 2016 1:00 AM GMT
    metta saidStudy suggests religion will go extinct in at least nine countries

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/02/05/study-suggests-religion-will-go-extinct-in-at-least-nine-countries/



    I don't think it will happen. I think the imperfect human brain is wired for it to some extent. Why else would humans create thousands of Gods/Religions all over the World throughout the centuries? I mean, from a historical perspective, I understand that there were religions created prior to governments and that they were probably originally created in order to get society to behave in a certain manner. But it is human beings that gripped onto these beliefs dearly, again and again, throughout the ages.


    Religions at their earliest inception were the result of man's need to explain the world around him at a time before scientific inquiry. Use as tool to control people was a natural out growth of the development of priestly castes, shamans, gurus, etc. that soon followed its development.

    Exactly what does the perfect human brain look like?
  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Feb 09, 2016 1:02 AM GMT
    ^
    It does not and has never existed. I'm just staying that most people expect the human brain to work in a logical manner and it does not always do so.
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    Feb 09, 2016 1:13 AM GMT
    ^ I would venture to say the human brain operates perfectly. It's just like a computer - garbage in, garbage out - or more correctly, incompleted info in, incomplete answer out. Of course there are exceptions for those with brain injuries, defects, etc.
  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Feb 09, 2016 3:21 AM GMT
    Well, here is another example:



    Your Brain Is Primed To Reach False Conclusions

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/your-brain-is-primed-to-reach-false-conclusions/
  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Feb 10, 2016 5:24 PM GMT
    To lead a moral life we’re better off without religion

    PA-6729482.jpg?ffd6b1


    http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/britishacademy/to-lead-a-moral-life-were-better-off-without-religion


    I found the shirt



    http://goo.gl/O5LE8c


    http://goo.gl/VJN0gA
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 10, 2016 5:47 PM GMT
    Organized religion is heinous. If this is true, then it's like they found the cure to cancer and mental infirmity.