Having friends with different points of view

  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 7:24 PM GMT
    Scalia and Ginsburg, polar opposites on the bench as Supreme Court Justices, were amazing close personal friends in life. Both grew up in the same New York neighborhood. Both served as circuit court judges together. Both had huge respect for each other even though they had polar opposite views on the bench. Travelled together with their families, spent every New Year's Eve together, most Holidays. Travelled to India together. The only time Scalia ever got emotional on the bench was when they announced the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's husband.

    Should be an example for all of us. Agree to disagree on politics, news, whatever. But find the humanity in another person and what you have in common. I have friends of all persuasions, politically. sexually, ect. It makes life more interesting and it forces you to be smarter in your own ideas. Don't surround yourself only by like thinkers. That is the death of intellect. Sharpen that sword by challenging and being challenged.
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    Feb 15, 2016 7:49 PM GMT
    And indeed those are words of flatulence. I have always wondered how can you 'respect' someone whilst holding contradiction in your values? There are of course many kinds of respect. For example, I respect my Prime Minister in a way because he grew up in an extremely poor background in a rigid, class-obsessed society. I admire his stoicism in the same breath I despise him for being hand in gloves with crony capitalists and Hindutva ultra-nationalists. I hate how his politics is framed around communal ideas and I abhor him for augmenting tensions that led to genocide of Muslims under his provincial leadership.

    Values are not taste such as preferring Mexican food over Chinese or vice-versa. Values are the most elemental ideas that we seek within us and outside of us. How can you respect a homophobe or one who would never see you as an equal, full human because of your race, sexual orientation, gender, nationality and all the other basics that define us? At best you can tolerate them, you can accept the reality that people are not drawing books that we can fill with our own chosen colours. You can seek understanding that they may have grown up in a time, in place where they couldn't have been anything other than who they are but respect? I don't think so.
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    Feb 15, 2016 8:27 PM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    I've nearly always had a Republican close friend including 10 years my last best bud. They're generally less Republican after I'm done with them then they were before they started with me but remain right of center. But the Republicans have moved so far right over the past few years that I don't know if my last bud would be red today. Probably he'd be an independent.

    I'm okay with the other person having differing values but I do draw some lines and a big line is drawn around my human rights.

    If someone wants to think I'm damned for being gay, that's their business. If someone wants to belong to a church that will not perform my marriage ceremony, that's their business.

    But if they think I have no civil right to marry, that's my business and they can go fuck themselves regardless of who they think they are, blood relation or friend. If you can't delineate your religion as separate from my civilian life, and if you'd think that I should not by that have the same civil rights as you, then you can go fuck yourself and I don't give a flying fuck who you think you are or who you thought you were to me.

    Did Scalia ever tell his friend Ginsburg that she had no standing to stand by her partner?

    May Scalia rot in hell.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 15, 2016 8:57 PM GMT
    ricky1987 saidAnd indeed those are words of flatulence. I have always wondered how can you 'respect' someone whilst holding contradiction in your values? There are of course many kinds of respect. For example, I respect my Prime Minister in a way because he grew up in an extremely poor background in a rigid, class-obsessed society. I admire his stoicism in the same breath I despise him for being hand in gloves with crony capitalists and Hindutva ultra-nationalists. I hate how his politics is framed around communal ideas and I abhor him for augmenting tensions that led to genocide of Muslims under his provincial leadership.

    Values are not taste such as preferring Mexican food over Chinese or vice-versa. Values are the most elemental ideas that we seek within us and outside of us. How can you respect a homophobe or one who would never see you as an equal, full human because of your race, sexual orientation, gender, nationality and all the other basics that define us? At best you can tolerate them, you can accept the reality that people are not drawing books that we can fill with our own chosen colours. You can seek understanding that they may have grown up in a time, in place where they couldn't have been anything other than who they are but respect? I don't think so.

    This!
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 9:04 PM GMT
    This is exactly the discussion I wanted to provoke. Idiots and scholars, so far a few of each.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 15, 2016 9:07 PM GMT
    Triggerman saidThis is exactly the discussion I wanted to provoke. Idiots and scholars, so far a few of each.

    You're friends with people who want us dead, and you call us idiots???

    I think you're possibly biggest idiot to ever post on RJ.icon_eek.gif
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    Feb 15, 2016 9:11 PM GMT
    Triggerman saidThis is exactly the discussion I wanted to provoke. Idiots and scholars, so far a few of each.


    I always thought you lacked self awareness. In a thread where you preach respect for those who are antithetical to our existence; calling one idiot is only the epitome of delusion.
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 9:13 PM GMT
    Ricky is young, smart and angry. He has not lived much of a life where you come in to contact with other people and realize that your closely held college beliefs do not work in the real world. Be angry until you hit 32. Then life becomes real, kid.
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 9:15 PM GMT
    when you say, " our existence". be more clear. Our means who?
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    Feb 15, 2016 9:16 PM GMT
    ricky1987 saidAnd indeed those are words of flatulence. I have always wondered how can you 'respect' someone whilst holding contradiction in your values? There are of course many kinds of respect. For example, I respect my Prime Minister in a way because he grew up in an extremely poor background in a rigid, class-obsessed society. I admire his stoicism in the same breath I despise him for being hand in gloves with crony capitalists and Hindutva ultra-nationalists. I hate how his politics is framed around communal ideas and I abhor him for augmenting tensions that led to genocide of Muslims under his provincial leadership.

    Values are not taste such as preferring Mexican food over Chinese or vice-versa. Values are the most elemental ideas that we seek within us and outside of us. How can you respect a homophobe or one who would never see you as an equal, full human because of your race, sexual orientation, gender, nationality and all the other basics that define us? At best you can tolerate them, you can accept the reality that people are not drawing books that we can fill with our own chosen colours. You can seek understanding that they may have grown up in a time, in place where they couldn't have been anything other than who they are but respect? I don't think so.


    There is no benign hatred in today's world. Maybe there was when we weren't all connected to each others' minds by an instant global network, but no longer. Hate someone for the right reasons, and it all still ends the same way.

    This was all good while it lasted. icon_sad.gif

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 15, 2016 9:19 PM GMT
    anotherphil said
    ricky1987 saidAnd indeed those are words of flatulence. I have always wondered how can you 'respect' someone whilst holding contradiction in your values? There are of course many kinds of respect. For example, I respect my Prime Minister in a way because he grew up in an extremely poor background in a rigid, class-obsessed society. I admire his stoicism in the same breath I despise him for being hand in gloves with crony capitalists and Hindutva ultra-nationalists. I hate how his politics is framed around communal ideas and I abhor him for augmenting tensions that led to genocide of Muslims under his provincial leadership.

    Values are not taste such as preferring Mexican food over Chinese or vice-versa. Values are the most elemental ideas that we seek within us and outside of us. How can you respect a homophobe or one who would never see you as an equal, full human because of your race, sexual orientation, gender, nationality and all the other basics that define us? At best you can tolerate them, you can accept the reality that people are not drawing books that we can fill with our own chosen colours. You can seek understanding that they may have grown up in a time, in place where they couldn't have been anything other than who they are but respect? I don't think so.


    There is no benign hatred in today's world. Maybe there was when we weren't all connected to each others' minds by an instant global network, but no longer. Hate someone for the right reasons, and it all still ends the same way.

    This was all good while it lasted. icon_sad.gif


    It was only ever good for some people.icon_idea.gif
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 9:20 PM GMT
    and I do lack self awareness. I was not born in those later hippy years. I am aware of my self...wtf does that really mean? lol. Hippy kids. I grew up with them.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 15, 2016 9:21 PM GMT
    Triggerman saidand I do lack self awareness. I was not born in those later hippy years. I am aware of my self...wtf does that really mean? lol. Hippy kids. I grew up with them.

    The more you post, the more you disprove that someone with a differing POV would make a good friend.
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 9:27 PM GMT
    No, I am asking them not to use generic phrases and silly ad hominem attacks. Say what you think. Speak clearly without catch phrases and such. What do you not like about me? That is cool. I can respond. Saying I am not self-aware? That is a small mind shorthand. How am I not self aware? That I can respect.
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    Feb 15, 2016 9:31 PM GMT
    Triggerman saidRicky is young, smart and angry. He has not lived much of a life where you come in to contact with other people and realize that your closely held college beliefs do not work in the real world. Be angry until you hit 32. Then life becomes real, kid.


    Am I young, smart and angry? I am young (28 yrs old, so relatively yes), smart (I think so but depends who you ask, Bonifacious will obviously disagreeand my mother would obviously agree) and angry (yes many things that are happening in the world makes me angry though sad is probably closer to how I feel).

    As for coming in contact with others? I have had my fair share. I am born and raised in India. When I was 17, I wanted to see the world, go beyond India. My father in those days was serving as UN peace keeper in Kosovo which was just coming out of a war and in the process of building itself again. I spent a summer there with my father and he took three week off work which gave us an opportunity to travel together. We went to see Italy, France, Germany and Austria. I also had Swiss visa and I wanted to see it (given how much Swiss alps in Bollywood films stirred my imagination) but my father didn't bother taking its visa. I also saw Montenegro (back then Kosovo was a part of Serbia&Montenegro). Then a couple of months later, I left home for university which is 16 hours away by train. I spent my years of undergrad life there. Soon after, I left India altogether for Canada for further education. I spent 2 and half years there. Of course it all sounds conceited given so many people never get even the basic opportunity to study let alone travel.

    I hope I stay angry even beyond 32. My anger is not screaming on top of my voice and acting like a spoilt brat. My anger is well within my means to channel for something better. As I know from history, that anger has been used as means of about bringing positive change in person and in society. The power of unrequited goes well beyond the power of fulfilment.



  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 9:34 PM GMT
    That was a well written response.
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    Feb 15, 2016 9:34 PM GMT
    Triggerman saidNo, I am asking them not to use generic phrases and silly ad hominem attacks. Say what you think. Speak clearly without catch phrases and such. What do you not like about me? That is cool. I can respond. Saying I am not self-aware? That is a small mind shorthand. How am I not self aware? That I can respect.


    I think I gave you the reason along with it only if you bother to read.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 15, 2016 9:35 PM GMT
    Triggerman saidNo, I am asking them not to use generic phrases and silly ad hominem attacks. Say what you think. Speak clearly without catch phrases and such. What do you not like about me? That is cool. I can respond. Saying I am not self-aware? That is a small mind shorthand. How am I not self aware? That I can respect.

    Your posts.

    You've said disparaging things about most RJers, Bernie Sanders, Ellen, Obama, and then you start a thread about how we're supposed to be friends with... assholes?

    To say you lack in self-awareness is an understatement!
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 9:40 PM GMT
    lol. I apparently touched a nerve. What exactly di I say that was disparaging about Ellen, for example?
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 15, 2016 9:44 PM GMT
    Here:
    Triggerman saidI love a half white person that never knew struggles growing up in Indonesia talking with a white woman that never came out until she was famous and had money in the bank. I can relate to those two.

    Fight the fight! lol. You are the face of LGBT. Or wasn't Obama against gay rights in 2008? And Ellen was still doing stand up referencing boy friends?

    But I digress.... sheep will follow whoever....
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 9:46 PM GMT
    that she spent 89% of her career talking about bf's she never had? That she was in the closet until her show hit? And then talk show? What did I say that was not fact and disparaging?
    You cover the faces of your friends in your profile. Don't want to be seen with a gay man? I have a ton of political friends. They don't cover people in pics with them.
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 9:49 PM GMT
    When I am right, a million guys want to argue with me. When I am wrong, I get three.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 15, 2016 9:52 PM GMT
    I think calling Obama "half-white" is an insult, and, in fact, I've only ever seen it used as an insult, by racists.

    One of many reasons it's insulting is because he has experienced racism in America, even while holding the highest office, based on his skin color, and his mom having been white doesn't negate that.

    It's like when MIL tries to say he's half-black. He only ever says that when he's trying to convince people who've experienced racism that racism is all in their heads.
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 9:59 PM GMT
    how is half white an insult? it is accurate.
  • Triggerman

    Posts: 528

    Feb 15, 2016 10:01 PM GMT
    how has he experienced racism? He did not live most of his life in the US. The US elected him President. Racism?