How do you all feel about Apple's stance on not providing a backdoor for their products in wake of national security concerns?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 17, 2016 9:54 PM GMT
    I don't know enough about the particulars of this case with the San Bernardino terrorists but it makes for an interesting hypothetical.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 17, 2016 10:01 PM GMT
    I may have to become an Apple fan.

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 17, 2016 10:08 PM GMT
    If apple doesn't tell us, we'll just ask North Korea what all those texts said...
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Feb 18, 2016 4:59 AM GMT

    This is a tough issue for me.

    The government is corrupt and corporations are generally evil by their nature.

    On the other hand, technology is increasing at an alarming rate as far as security issues are concerned and in the future it may be necessary to monitor everyone at all times regardless of its implications.

    Imagine a world, where any biology student could custom create a virus. Would we really be thinking "freedom has no price" if every other terrorist or psycho could make a new deadly virus in his kitchen with a simple 3D biological printer or some new technology, should there ever be one.

    Imagine anyone could just splice a few genes and suddenly there is a new algae in the ocean that is creating CO2 instead of oxygen and in 20 years it will destory the entire planet. Would we not feel the need to know what everyone is upto at all times, if anyone could do un-imaginable amounts of damage given the new knowledge at everyone's finger tips?


    So at the moment i am more of a fuck the NSA person, for good reason i think. I do imagine in the future we will all need to watched all the time and privacy will be an antiquated notion.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 19, 2016 4:25 AM GMT
    Good for Apple. Other tech companies are following.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 19, 2016 4:31 AM GMT
    I support Apple's position. Now endorsed by Google.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 19, 2016 4:48 AM GMT
    For those that don't understand.. The feds aren't asking Apple to decrypt the phone. They're asking Apple to create a hack to bypass the failed password attempt feature. Then the feds will brute force attack the login on the phone.

    This sets a bad precedent, and creates a pathway to abuse from both the government and from hackers.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 19, 2016 10:37 AM GMT
    it makes Apple technology less desirable in other countries.
    example:
    why would a Canadian bank buy American software if they knew there was a back door.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 19, 2016 3:32 PM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    "...other ways of getting that same intelligence"


    s-l300.jpg
  • FredMG

    Posts: 988

    Feb 19, 2016 8:07 PM GMT
    I'd totally support Apple unlocking a terrorists phone.

    Ordering Apple to make a new operating system just because the NSA and law enforcement is too incompetent to crack an iPhone is over-reach.
  • Whipmagic

    Posts: 1481

    Feb 19, 2016 11:07 PM GMT
    Well, here are my thoughts on this: the story doesn't add up. The crux is that the FBI wants Apple to make a special version of IOS that is trivially hacked, to be installed in the target's IPhone. Now, when I download an update to IOS, I need to have my passcode - the very thing the FBI wants, and Apple claims it doesn't have. So does Apple already have a backdoor to upload a new operating system without the user's consent? If so, the horse is already out of the barn, and Apple's vows to cyber security mean squat.

    Furthermore, if Apple provided that tool, I'm sure China or Iran will demand it as well, as a condition to doing business in those countries. How can they refuse? And, making the tool would require only trivial changes to IOS, that anyone who has access to the source code can make. Does anyone think that the IOS source code is out of reach for the NSA? If they're not totally incompetent, they already have done this hack and can get access to any IPhone they chose to. It's just the FBI who can't get to this because of the legal separation between domestic and intelligence agencies.

    So I don't understand why Apple doesn't make their phones more secure, making it impossible to change the operating system without a passcode, nor do I get why the US government is pushing this so hard.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 20, 2016 1:36 AM GMT
    Apple has always been an intrinsically and fundamentally dishonest company. Greed rules their actions. It's a safe bet to assume that their reasons are not for the good of the industry.
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    Feb 20, 2016 7:42 PM GMT
    Well we know the IRS is corrupt, that the ACA roll out was incompetent and the FBI just got hacked , so the Government is definitely not trust worthy. The government also created this problem since the phone was locked after it was seized. So that is either corruption or incompetence. It's not Apple problem that the Government policies caused this problem and it shows Obama's tyrannical core values.
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    Feb 20, 2016 7:47 PM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal saidApple has always been an intrinsically and fundamentally dishonest company. Greed rules their actions. It's a safe bet to assume that their reasons are not for the good of the industry.

    And not for the good of the public I should have added. It's always about profits and money with Apple.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 20, 2016 7:50 PM GMT
    Whipmagic saidWell, here are my thoughts on this: the story doesn't add up. The crux is that the FBI wants Apple to make a special version of IOS that is trivially hacked, to be installed in the target's IPhone. Now, when I download an update to IOS, I need to have my passcode - the very thing the FBI wants, and Apple claims it doesn't have. So does Apple already have a backdoor to upload a new operating system without the user's consent? If so, the horse is already out of the barn, and Apple's vows to cyber security mean squat.

    Furthermore, if Apple provided that tool, I'm sure China or Iran will demand it as well, as a condition to doing business in those countries. How can they refuse? And, making the tool would require only trivial changes to IOS, that anyone who has access to the source code can make. Does anyone think that the IOS source code is out of reach for the NSA? If they're not totally incompetent, they already have done this hack and can get access to any IPhone they chose to. It's just the FBI who can't get to this because of the legal separation between domestic and intelligence agencies.

    So I don't understand why Apple doesn't make their phones more secure, making it impossible to change the operating system without a passcode, nor do I get why the US government is pushing this so hard.


    ^ All of this. Plus, for the most part, there isn't much separation between "governments," "organized crime," and "terrorists." To open for one is to open for all.
  • wild_sky360

    Posts: 1492

    Feb 20, 2016 8:28 PM GMT
    mindgarden said
    Whipmagic saidWell, here are my thoughts on this: the story doesn't add up. The crux is that the FBI wants Apple to make a special version of IOS that is trivially hacked, to be installed in the target's IPhone. Now, when I download an update to IOS, I need to have my passcode - the very thing the FBI wants, and Apple claims it doesn't have. So does Apple already have a backdoor to upload a new operating system without the user's consent? If so, the horse is already out of the barn, and Apple's vows to cyber security mean squat.

    Furthermore, if Apple provided that tool, I'm sure China or Iran will demand it as well, as a condition to doing business in those countries. How can they refuse? And, making the tool would require only trivial changes to IOS, that anyone who has access to the source code can make. Does anyone think that the IOS source code is out of reach for the NSA? If they're not totally incompetent, they already have done this hack and can get access to any IPhone they chose to. It's just the FBI who can't get to this because of the legal separation between domestic and intelligence agencies.

    So I don't understand why Apple doesn't make their phones more secure, making it impossible to change the operating system without a passcode, nor do I get why the US government is pushing this so hard.


    ^ All of this. Plus, for the most part, there isn't much separation between "governments," "organized crime," and "terrorists." To open for one is to open for all.


    All of the above, including the plus...PLUS:
    For all we know, the gangsters in Washington may already be in possession of a hack and this is all a ruse to let the guard down of people who think they're relatively invulnerable on IOS today.
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    Feb 20, 2016 8:39 PM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    Lumpyoatmeal saidApple has always been an intrinsically and fundamentally dishonest company. Greed rules their actions. It's a safe bet to assume that their reasons are not for the good of the industry.

    And not for the good of the public I should have added. It's always about profits and money with Apple.

    Please name the major US Fortune 500 Company that is NOT about profits & money.
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    Feb 20, 2016 8:55 PM GMT
    I think it smacks of double standards. The likes of Apple and Google are quite happy to suck up massive amounts of personal information about their customers, purely for commercial exploitation purposes. I don't think they are in a position to start pretending to be the guardians of privacy when the government asks for information on what appear to be legitimate counter-terrorism grounds.
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    Feb 20, 2016 9:22 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidI think it smacks of double standards...
    you like the free stuff on the internet right, guess what pays for it.
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    Feb 20, 2016 9:23 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    Lumpyoatmeal saidApple has always been an intrinsically and fundamentally dishonest company. Greed rules their actions. It's a safe bet to assume that their reasons are not for the good of the industry.
    And not for the good of the public I should have added. It's always about profits and money with Apple.
    Please name the major US Fortune 500 Company that is NOT about profits & money.

    Exactly.

    But the problem with Apple is that they're superb at conning their customers into thinking that everything they do is for the good of their customers, if not for the good of the world. To listen to the Apple fanboys you'd think Apple was a nonprofit, saving the world from evil. And Apple is more likely to backstab their customers and partners than the other companies are.
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    Feb 20, 2016 9:41 PM GMT
    pellaz said
    Ex_Mil8 saidI think it smacks of double standards...
    you like the free stuff on the internet right, guess what pays for it.


    I understand that and I use the internet and e-devices with my eyes open. I don't even mind receiving targeted advertising (as opposed to something I'm never going to be interested in). I'm just not buying big tech corporations telling me they have my privacy at heart.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 20, 2016 9:55 PM GMT
    Is NSA etc really interested in the contents of that particular phone? or are they interested in the precedent of access for their benefit from now forward?
    Yes the Supreme Court ruling is what Apple/Government are looking for.
    As for the government's concern it needs visibility to prevent bad shit from happening.
    both sides are right.