Younger Americans have a much better view of socialism, and worse view of capitalism, than their elders

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    Mar 29, 2016 3:10 AM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    https://today.yougov.com/news/2015/05/11/one-third-millennials-like-socialism/
    ...Among younger Americans, however, attitudes are a lot more divided. 36% of under-30s have a positive view of socialism, while 39% have a positive view of capitalism...
    socialism4-3.png

    Quotes about equality and socialism

    Respondents were presented with a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King, in which he stated that "all life is interrelated, and all men are interdependent." Overall, Americans tend to agree with this and the idea that helping the poor also improves the life of the rich, with 41% agreeing and 26% disagreeing. Most Democrats (57%) and many independents (40%) agree, but Republicans tend to disagree (42%) rather than agree (21%) with the statement.
    socialism3.png


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouGov#Accuracy
    Opinion poll analysis website FiveThirtyEight assigns YouGov a grade of C+, with a slight Republican bias in American elections.


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  • roadbikeRob

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    Mar 29, 2016 1:47 PM GMT
    Is this just more ultra leftist propaganda as usualicon_question.gif
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    Mar 29, 2016 2:52 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidIs this just more ultra leftist propaganda as usualicon_question.gif


    Nothing new about that actually. You need to grow up a bit before you figure out what is b.s and what isn't. Getting a paycheck paying taxes is usually the first wake-up call.

    Of course some people never really grow up and figure out what is b.s. and what isn't.

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    Mar 29, 2016 3:31 PM GMT
    desertmuscl said
    roadbikeRob saidIs this just more ultra leftist propaganda as usualicon_question.gif


    Nothing new about that actually. You need to grow up a bit before you figure out what is b.s and what isn't. Getting a paycheck paying taxes is usually the first wake-up call.

    Of course some people never really grow up and figure out what is b.s. and what isn't.



    rjGOPers full of shit.

    a) the info is from a slightly right-leaning polling group.

    b) socialism has nothing to do with not working. Or haven't you noticed Bernie still working his ass off instead of retiring which certainly he could do if he wanted to not work.

    Socialism isn't about living a nonproductive life; rather, it is about what gives meaning to productivity. Democratic Socialism, while critical of, as Bernie put it "casino-capitalism" (or what I'd call robbery or, more politely, the redistribution of the nation's wealth to the concentrated wealthy) is about what motivates productivity (including capitalistic aspects), the fair distribution of the rewards of effort and what gives productivity meaning.

    Simply put, it is about acknowledging and acting upon connectedness while denouncing selfishness, sentiment lost on sociopathic GOPers.
  • Hypertrophile

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    Mar 29, 2016 3:38 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    desertmuscl said
    roadbikeRob saidIs this just more ultra leftist propaganda as usualicon_question.gif


    Nothing new about that actually. You need to grow up a bit before you figure out what is b.s and what isn't. Getting a paycheck paying taxes is usually the first wake-up call.

    Of course some people never really grow up and figure out what is b.s. and what isn't.



    rjGOPers full of shit.

    a) the info is from a slightly right-leaning polling group.

    b) socialism has nothing to do with not working. Or haven't you noticed Bernie still working his ass off instead of retiring which certainly he could do if he wanted to not work.

    Socialism isn't about living a nonproductive life; rather, it is about what gives meaning to productivity. Democratic Socialism, while critical of, as Bernie put it "casino-capitalism" (or what I'd call robbery or, more politely, the redistribution of the nation's wealth to the concentrated wealthy) is about what motivates productivity (including capitalistic aspects), the fair distribution of the rewards of effort and what gives productivity meaning.

    Simply put, it is about acknowledging and acting upon connectedness while denouncing selfishness, sentiment lost on sociopathic GOPers.


    Good post. It seems that every once in a while there is a resurgence of Ayn Rand's popularity, and selfish people glom on to her to justify their selfishness. Eventually it fades as people see how interconnected and cooperative we have to be for society to survive.
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    Mar 29, 2016 4:32 PM GMT
    Yeah, because Mommy and Daddy pay for everything.
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    Mar 29, 2016 9:18 PM GMT
    this Z generation is totally disrespectful
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    Mar 29, 2016 11:12 PM GMT
    Hypertrophile saidGood post. It seems that every once in a while there is a resurgence of Ayn Rand's popularity, and selfish people glom on to her to justify their selfishness. Eventually it fades as people see how interconnected and cooperative we have to be for society to survive.


    Thank you.

    I'm familiar with Rand since my teens when I read both Fountainhead, which I enjoyed by my interest in architecture, and Atlas, by which I better realized her stance (I should have seen it in the first book but I was young and taken in both by the fiction of it & references to Frank Lloyd). But also from even earlier I very much related to socialism though when younger I didn't have a name for it. I was just always trying to be helpful for friends and involved even as a young teen in environmental groups. That was more formalized in early college when I volunteered with one of world citizen Bucky Fuller's organizations.

    So from the moment I first heard Bernie in the presidential campaign speaking on TV, I came in from another room to see who was saying what I'd been thinking but not heard discussed much at the national level.

    And now for younger people to be opening their minds in greater numbers? This is generations of work which had been swept away by the Cold War. Kept in fear by the GOP. And perhaps not merely coincidental that it was in step with the destruction of the middle class. That the Cold War which ran from the 50s through the 90s just happens to include the fulcrum of wealth distribution of the 1970s onward, when the wealth of the nation was redistributed to the wealthiest 1%.

    The Great Depression through Circa 1969
    1929-1969.jpg

    Circa 1969 through the Great Recession
    1969-2008.jpg

    How did they do it? How do they sustain their Oligarchy camouflaged to the middle classes as capitalism?
    american-flag-waving-2-o.gif
    They make America Fear Again
  • roadbikeRob

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    Mar 30, 2016 12:57 AM GMT
    GladiatorSam said
    pellaz saidthis Z generation is totally disrespectful


    I totally agree!
    We have to thank the parents of today for Generation Z's disrespectful attitudes. All they did was hand these kids everything on a silver platter rather than raise them properly. I also blame both politicians and child psychologists for going overboard with these child abuse laws. It is literally unlawful to discipline an unruly kid. What the fuck!
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    Mar 30, 2016 1:17 AM GMT
    See, here in Canada, at least- our youth find the sheer words "bottom 90%" to be a bit of a terrifying concept.

    Socialism isn't a dirty word here. I really don't understand how there are many more people in America who are both poor yet somehow capitalists. It's almost as though you people think socialism allows corporate owners to underpay the middle class even more than they already do.
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    Mar 30, 2016 1:47 AM GMT
    demiguy12 saidSee, here in Canada, at least- our youth find the sheer words "bottom 90%" to be a bit of a terrifying concept.

    Socialism isn't a dirty word here. I really don't understand how there are many more people in America who are both poor yet somehow capitalists. It's almost as though you people think socialism allows corporate owners to underpay the middle class even more than they already do.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_socialist_movement_in_the_United_States
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    Mar 30, 2016 2:55 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    Hypertrophile saidGood post. It seems that every once in a while there is a resurgence of Ayn Rand's popularity, and selfish people glom on to her to justify their selfishness. Eventually it fades as people see how interconnected and cooperative we have to be for society to survive.


    Thank you.


    How did they do it? How do they sustain their Oligarchy camouflaged to the middle classes as capitalism?
    american-flag-waving-2-o.gif
    They make America Fear Again



    How come there are billionaires in Comminist Russia?

    Socialism promises everything to everybody and results in a blood bath for the 90% ers that fall for the "free for all" .
  • rdberg1957

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    Mar 30, 2016 3:42 AM GMT
    Nobody hates capitalism more than capitalists. When they ascend the ladder, they make sure to rig things so that others can't join them.
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    Mar 30, 2016 9:03 AM GMT
    Look, 'socialism' has been equated with the devil since communism fears of the cold war.

    Reality is: there are many kinds of socialism and many kinds of capitalism.

    Unfortunately young people are living with the results of an unbridled and selfish form of capitalism that favours the rich and keeps the middle classes struggling and in debt.

    'Democratic Socialism' is simply making sure the government looks after everyone, it's about helping your neighbour rather than saying 'fend for yourself.' It's that ugly side of capitalism that we're facing now. I'm surprised so many religious people are also hard core capitalists - that kind of capitalism is so selfish! and not at all caring for your neighbour.

    In Europe democratic socialism is alive and well and society benefits from it - free healthcare, four weeks of vacation per year, free or much cheaper education, etc etc. Europe is hardly a communist devil!

    The sooner Americans hit the 'refresh' button and stop branding socialism as a dirty word the better. We know now that capitalism can also be a dirty word!

    There's my opinion on the matter, I think things are moving
  • Twoguys023

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    Mar 30, 2016 10:10 AM GMT

    Wow, it is amazing (and a bit frightening) to see the level of ignorance in many of these replies.

    Billionaires in communist Russia? WTF?

    In Russia the billionaires are the result of the collapse of communism and the introduction of ruthless capitalism.
    In case you haven't read a proper newspaper in 25 years: communism has been dead for more than two decades. You are living in a time capsule.

    I am from a social-democratic country and it is pretty nice to live in a society that consistently ranks in the top-10 on education, safety, freedom, healthcare and pensions. And general happiness of course.


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    Mar 30, 2016 2:33 PM GMT
    Yeah, I think you guys answered Alpha's misunderstanding especially that Communism is not Democratic Socialism, particularly by being not democratic, and that the Russian oligarchy of today resulted from perestroika when black markets thrived during their transitioning into a market economy. I've not been following closely but I'd imagine that still ongoing; and I liked the mention, as it is true, that youth today, though really even through my generation which includes when woman had to start working to help support family in the 70s, experienced a type of capitalism that destroys the middle classes on the backs of the middle classes, leaving only the upper middle intact as buffer to the 1%.

    This redistribution of the nation's wealth to the 1% has been systematic and ongoing for the last 45 years, the charts above show that perfectly clearly. Before that, as the middle classes rebuilt this nation from the last time the 1% destroyed the financial system, the distribution of the wealth allowed more people to benefit.

    So it's bullshit to say that if more benefited now, that the country would suffer, because when more people benefited before, that's when the country was building back from the Great Depression, you know, from pretty much bottom. And if you look at what was the distribution leading up the Great Depression, we don't see the money going to the 90% at that time. Instead we see leading up to catastrophe the same distribution pattern that we have today.

    The Decade Leading up to the Great Depression
    1917-1929.jpg
    Look familiar? Look at the above chart in prior post at what it looks like today. Compare that chart to this chart. That's the graph which leads to catastrophe.

    I'd add further to why youth is capable of thinking differently than their elders about socialism which is not just because they've been raised under a rabid form of capitalism--though that's a very good point--but also because they have less memory being less alive during the Cold War, which ran 1950s through the 90s, when fear ran rampant in America, some real, some faked, all used (including homophobia) by the 1% as distraction to steal the wealth of the nation while deriding all socialism as specific communism, which of course it is not. But that's how many of the older generations, particularly those who rely on bumper sticker mentality, think of it. Youth today was not as tainted by that memory.

    Also, a number of us throughout it all have been championing a more compassionate capitalism. It doesn't have to be ruthless capitalism to succeed--rather that's what destroys. And it probably doesn't even take a democratic socialism in America and I'm not sure that fits. Certainly Bernie wouldn't be installing that here, but he could help steer the country towards a more social democracy...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
    Social democracy is a political ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving collective bargaining arrangements, a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions.[1][2][3] Social democracy thus aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater democratic, egalitarian and solidaristic outcomes...


    ...such that production might remain in private hands but, perhaps, better regulated to better avoid the abuses of monopolies and virtual monopolies. For instance, why is electric considered a utility with pricing subject to governmental review but medicine is free to fleece? Does life depend more on electric or on health?

    We are not robots. We'd like our humanity back please.

    rdberg1957 saidNobody hates capitalism more than capitalists. When they ascend the ladder, they make sure to rig things so that others can't join them.


    Thus "they privatize the profits and socialize the losses."

    How convenient.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Mar 31, 2016 12:10 PM GMT
    rdberg1957 saidNobody hates capitalism more than capitalists. When they ascend the ladder, they make sure to rig things so that others can't join them.
    Thank you. In that wealthy, privileged group is the hapless Hillary ho and her corrupt neoliberal goons who will rig things by kicking out the ladder since they are already on top. All her loyal supporters will remain entrenched in poverty and debt. Go figure.
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    Mar 31, 2016 1:12 PM GMT
    I've observed that many of the people in the US who are attracted to socialism tend to have very low self-esteem and have a feeling of hopelessness--i.e., they feel that they have lost control of everything in their life and that there's practically no way out of their mother's basement.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Mar 31, 2016 1:20 PM GMT
    DOMINUS saidI've observed that many of the people in the US who are attracted to socialism tend to have very low self-esteem and have a feeling of hopelessness--i.e., they feel that they have lost control of everything in their life and that there's practically no way out of their mother's basement.
    That also includes a large number of older 40 something and 50 something adults like myself who are stuck in low wage, dead end jobs and finding the cheapest rent available because we can no longer live in our parents basements. Serve your country in the military, go to college and get that almighty bachelors degree, keep your nose clean, maintain a decent employment history yet still end up living from paycheck to paycheck.icon_sad.gif
  • musclmed

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    Mar 31, 2016 1:34 PM GMT
    DOMINUS saidI've observed that many of the people in the US who are attracted to socialism tend to have very low self-esteem and have a feeling of hopelessness--i.e., they feel that they have lost control of everything in their life and that there's practically no way out of their mother's basement.


    true.


    Looking after others is still IMHO, part of American culture. We just dont empower the government to do it because many of our forefathers specifically left another country because of this "domination".

    Maybe the government doesnt like your religion and wants to make sure your children are religion free.....You can insert infinite scenarios because I am sure Bernie has one for everything.

    Our federal government is setup differently. The people only empowered it to do certain things, the rest are left to the people and local governments.

    Last to address the "Selfishness" , there are certain truths about humanity that we must acknowledge. Until we evolve to another consciousness we primarily are looking out for ourselves and our families. There needs to be a framework so there is no undue advantage taking place. Knowing that there will ALWAYS be some that need help. But we shouldn't let help hurt there

    Bernie certainly has a point about the "Casino" of wall street. But I am pretty sure if you banned it , it would find its incarnation another way. It maybe just my opinion but I think we are more free than our ancestors.

    Last, I cannot leave out Sen Sanders and the VA. If you are looking to a Sanders single payer. Look to the VA. The VA is not run by doctors , but by Administrators that just look out for themselves.
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    Mar 31, 2016 2:30 PM GMT
    DOMINUS saidI've observed that many of the people in the US who are attracted to socialism tend to have very low self-esteem and have a feeling of hopelessness--i.e., they feel that they have lost control of everything in their life and that there's practically no way out of their mother's basement.


    Interesting, because I've observed that many of the people in the US who are attracted to laissez-faire capitalism tend to have overly inflated egos and an overall psyche of sociopathy--i.e., a lack of compassion, a disconnect from empathy that they have lost touch with everything in their life which they do not perceive as immediately benefiting only themselves; and from within their own mothers' basements, they'd sell her on ebay, torch her house and move the scammed insurance reimbursement offshore while claiming to be making America great again.

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    Mar 31, 2016 5:48 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    DOMINUS saidI've observed that many of the people in the US who are attracted to socialism tend to have very low self-esteem and have a feeling of hopelessness--i.e., they feel that they have lost control of everything in their life and that there's practically no way out of their mother's basement.
    That also includes a large number of older 40 something and 50 something adults like myself who are stuck in low wage, dead end jobs and finding the cheapest rent available because we can no longer live in our parents basements. Serve your country in the military, go to college and get that almighty bachelors degree, keep your nose clean, maintain a decent employment history yet still end up living from paycheck to paycheck.icon_sad.gif


    There is absolutely no question in my mind that this country MUST do several things to address and alleviate the plight of people like yourself and many others. It pains me--and I mean, PAINS me--to know and see that people could spend their whole life working and still not have anything to show for it. It is unjust, it is unconscionable, it is inhumane, it is wrong, it is indefensible on all levels. I'm not sure, however, that socialism is THE answer. I just wish that our politicians would give us realistic, actionable, and enforceable options, instead of engendering false optimism and cultivating high expectations on which NONE OF THEM can possibly deliver (Bernie Sanders is a case in point). That being said, there are many ways, beyond voting for political candidates that share our core values and aspirations, by which those of us who truly believe in social and economic equality can change things. There are many nonprofit organizations that are eternally in need of volunteers. I represent several nonprofit organizations whose mission is to make this society a better place for us and our children, free of charge. Volunteerism is severely underrated, and there are many organizations that can use the commitment and optimism that many of us possess. We have to be socially conscious every day, not every 4 years. That being said, we cannot accomplish ANYTHING by name-calling, mud-slinging, and spreading ridiculous misinformation. If you want to improve your situation, do something productive--don't sit on your butt typing all kinds of nasty comments to post here and whining like a 7-year-old girl.
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    Apr 01, 2016 12:43 AM GMT
    The propaganda seems strong in the gay community as well, judging solely by this thread.

    Hidden ageism as well. Yet when the reverse happens we have adult crybabies here with wall-o-texts complaining about it.
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    Apr 01, 2016 12:48 AM GMT
    He needs to be BANNED!!! lol

    Ban ALL of RJ
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    Apr 01, 2016 12:51 AM GMT
    Twoguys023 said
    Wow, it is amazing (and a bit frightening) to see the level of ignorance in many of these replies.

    Billionaires in communist Russia? WTF?

    In Russia the billionaires are the result of the collapse of communism and the introduction of ruthless capitalism.
    In case you haven't read a proper newspaper in 25 years: communism has been dead for more than two decades. You are living in a time capsule.

    I am from a social-democratic country and it is pretty nice to live in a society that consistently ranks in the top-10 on education, safety, freedom, healthcare and pensions. And general happiness of course.




    More like BILLIONAIRES in Communist CHINA? How could there be such a thing. Seems like the money is always in bed with the politicians. Communism OR Capitalism!!
    GREED!!!