Today's Gay Youth

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    Feb 09, 2009 6:39 AM GMT
    No, this is not about the entire gay youth just some of them.

    We have had a couple of new posters that are/were very early 20's or 19 or whatever. They came on here and post about masculine vs. feminine guys or gay vs. fags or whatever they were talking about.

    Now when I grew up I was taught manners. I don't actually remember being taught this form of social skill but I learned it just the same. Maybe it was more of what was going on in a social society thing. I don't know. The world that I grew up in is far different than the one I'm sure these guys have grown up in. For example we didn't have internet. We didn't even have cell phones (well we did but they were huge). Heck, we didn't even have DVD's and VCR's didn't come out until I was a teenager. Nintendo was still fairly new.

    My question is this: Should we as gays, that have been out for quite a while, look past their social blunders and realize that they are defining stuff by what their generation has taught them and realize that they probably don't know how to interact in gay society? (or should that just be society?)

    I'm thinking yes but to a point. It's hard enough dealing with coming out to yourself as well as others, though I still don't understand why they think some name calling is acceptable behavior.

    What's your take on this?
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    Feb 09, 2009 6:41 AM GMT



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    Feb 09, 2009 6:45 AM GMT
    it doesnt have anything to do with being gay, its the X/Y/i generation, there are just as many rude straight youth as there are gay ones.
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    Feb 09, 2009 6:55 AM GMT
    Yeah, I have to agree. It's not a gay thing. It's a sign of the times. Kids these days don't understand manners, courtesy, or tact. I mentioned it in a different thread, but today's generation has an elevated sense of self entitlement and lack of consideration for others. And it's gonna get worse.
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    Feb 09, 2009 8:38 AM GMT
    The issue you mention is indicative of an all-accepting, non-judgmental, anything goes, I,I,I, mentality that seems to have prevailed in some places (it's not everywhere).

    Some of it is immaturity (the adoloscent brain), and lack of social contact via sitting at home in compartment on The Internet. While modern communications technology can be very empowering, it can also be very detrimental to the social graces.

    I don't mean being animated nor falsely pleasant as in, say, religous or Southern hospitality, but, unconditionally supportive, for no good reason. E.g, fat kids: my parents would never have put up with me being fat. It simply would not have been unacceptable. My parents gave me guidance in knowing virtue, and tolerance, but, also when to say no.

    I think the root of the difference in sensibilites is what seems to be an I,I,I,, self-entitlement mode to many folks.

    Just yesterday, we saw a young man with lots of privilege (we live in that part of town) throw his trash out the window just feet from the dumpster. We see it all the time at the gym: I paid my gym dues, so I'll leave the weights laying around because I can.

    No one stands up and says "enough!"

    A lot of us have become complete "pussies" in an effort to avoid confrontation at all costs. Being a litter bug, foul-mouthed, liar, etc, are all things, anyone should be called on.

    It's completely sad that folks are dieing in this process of political correctness. Be it what it is.

    The Internet allows folks to hide behind false profiles, morphed images, big mouths. Some of the young folks have come to think that they can say and do just about whatever they want on The Internet because they've never been smacked (as in hit across the side of the head) by a mindful parent. Many folks now don't have conventional role models in their families, and have only a single parent to guide them that must be all things, at all times.

    The other day, Chris (the Real Jock owner) and I, exchanged some emails about one character that was particulary venomous in his rhetoric. I said something along the line of "sorry to be a a pain", and the response of management was "he was being an asshole." It made my day that there were some limits put in place.

    I think that it gets down to fewer folks want to lead, and fewer folks are getting good parenting (I have no issue with same-sex parents, etc. I do take issue with bad parenting, however.)
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    Feb 09, 2009 9:16 AM GMT
    xrichx saidYeah, I have to agree. It's not a gay thing. It's a sign of the times. Kids these days don't understand manners, courtesy, or tact. I mentioned it in a different thread, but today's generation has an elevated sense of self entitlement and lack of consideration for others. And it's gonna get worse.


    I know I'm only 24, but I totally agree with you. My little cousins, and their friends... they are soooo much worse nowadays then back when I was their age. It's crazy. It's like each new generation is getting worse. I don't know any gay guys younger than me, hell I don't even have any gay friends. So I don't know about the gay youth, my response was about today's youth in general.
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    Feb 09, 2009 9:32 AM GMT
    My coming out, and introduction to the gay community was done by working for it; the gay community. So I got to know the gay community in a very short time, and with the lights on, oh the things I seen, and witnessed, and done too. How I loved my community.

    I was 20 str8 off a farm, it was the early 80's when many of these young people were born. I was dealing with the whole thing really well. Working for the gay community back then, we were treated like celebratees. Also being young and have a build like a back yard shit house, help things along in my popularity too. How I loved my community....

    But then AIDS come a long and the whole thing changed over night. The community I knew was gone, it was dead. But I stood by it, and care for it, while so many had abandoned it, filled with fear. Hid, until it was safe to come out and play again. But I stood by the community I loved, when so many fled.

    Now I had already seen how bitchy the gay community was. But it was not until the gay community come alive again, that I got to see how nasty, and spiteful, and so selfish the gay men really were.. Men willing to give people a death sentence, instead of depriving their dick pleasure. My community made my soul weep.

    At this I gave back my gay card, and become a fag, as I was not a member of the gay community anymore. I lost my community to AIDS.

    But such actions I seen way back then, that had an ever lasting effect on me. The gay youth of today have growen up with, as being a normal part of life, and their community.
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    Feb 09, 2009 9:58 AM GMT
    Pattison saidMy coming out, and introduction to the gay community was done by working for it; the gay community. So I got to know the gay community in a very short time, and with the lights on, oh the things I seen, and witnessed, and done too. How I loved my community.

    I was 20 str8 off a farm, it was the early 80's when many of these young people were born. I was dealing with the whole thing really well. Working for the gay community back then, we were treated like celebratees. Also being young and have a build like a back yard shit house, help things along in my popularity too. How I loved my community....

    But then AIDS come a long and the whole thing changed over night. The community I knew was gone, it was dead. But I stood by it, and care for it, while so many had abandoned it, filled with fear. Hid, until it was safe to come out and play again. But I stood by the community I loved, when so many fled.

    Now I had already seen how bitchy the gay community was. But it was not until the gay community come alive again, that I got to see how nasty, and spiteful, and so selfish the gay men really were.. Men willing to give people a death sentence, instead of depriving their dick pleasure. My community made my soul weep.

    At this I gave back my gay card, and become a fag, as I was not a member of the gay community anymore. I lost my community to AIDS.

    But such actions I seen way back then, that had an ever lasting effect on me. The gay youth of today have growen up with, as being a normal part of life, and their community.


    Respectfully,

    I'm confused... all gay men are spiteful because of AIDS?

    Pattison, there are soooo many good people on this blog--people that, yes, may have liberl views, but that does not make them uneducated, mean, spiteful, or whatever other negative adjective one can come up with. I look at this fourm and see very few guys who are vile right down to the soul. Just because guys have liberal views does not make them a part of your "gay left."

    I wonder how exactly you look at lfe and the people around you. Do you see inexcuseable flaws everywhere... or do you see passionate humans?

    Take a moment to count ALL the RJers who are active on thissite... and ALL the RJers who you have issues with. In some cases, I think you would find that they are not the problem.
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    Feb 09, 2009 11:02 AM GMT
    cjcscuba1984 said
    Pattison saidMy coming out, and introduction to the gay community was done by working for it; the gay community. So I got to know the gay community in a very short time, and with the lights on, oh the things I seen, and witnessed, and done too. How I loved my community.

    I was 20 str8 off a farm, it was the early 80's when many of these young people were born. I was dealing with the whole thing really well. Working for the gay community back then, we were treated like celebratees. Also being young and have a build like a back yard shit house, help things along in my popularity too. How I loved my community....

    But then AIDS come a long and the whole thing changed over night. The community I knew was gone, it was dead. But I stood by it, and care for it, while so many had abandoned it, filled with fear. Hid, until it was safe to come out and play again. But I stood by the community I loved, when so many fled.

    Now I had already seen how bitchy the gay community was. But it was not until the gay community come alive again, that I got to see how nasty, and spiteful, and so selfish the gay men really were.. Men willing to give people a death sentence, instead of depriving their dick pleasure. My community made my soul weep.

    At this I gave back my gay card, and become a fag, as I was not a member of the gay community anymore. I lost my community to AIDS.

    But such actions I seen way back then, that had an ever lasting effect on me. The gay youth of today have growen up with, as being a normal part of life, and their community.


    Respectfully,

    I'm confused... all gay men are spiteful because of AIDS?

    Pattison, there are soooo many good people on this blog--people that, yes, may have liberl views, but that does not make them uneducated, mean, spiteful, or whatever other negative adjective one can come up with. I look at this fourm and see very few guys who are vile right down to the soul. Just because guys have liberal views does not make them a part of your "gay left."

    I wonder how exactly you look at lfe and the people around you. Do you see inexcuseable flaws everywhere... or do you see passionate humans?

    Take a moment to count ALL the RJers who are active on thissite... and ALL the RJers who you have issues with. In some cases, I think you would find that they are not the problem.


    My statements had nothing to to do with the left wing gay movment or liberal minded people. It did not discriminate, as it incorporated all.

    Also the the divide from the left wing and right wing homosexuals down here is not so great, or as much as an issue, as it is in the USA.

    This may surprise you, but one is seen as a passionate human, my actions prove this daily. I do my best to see the good in the people I care for, even the bad ones.

    But I don't see one person deliberately going out of their way to infect another with a deadly virus, just because they have it, as excusable. Nor for them too latter fob it off, as Oh I was in denial at the time, we all did it. Sure accidents do happen. But should they?

    This no matter what, its apart of gay history, and you youth of today, have inherited it! lets see how you guys write your part in history. Also lets not forget so much of the hard work has also already been done for you too.

    PS. For all you HIV+ guys. This is not an attack on you! It's an attack on what I seen as a young man, working for the gay community in it's darkest years. lets not forget I also had the balls to stand by my then community, because I loved it. When so many others fled and hid, until it was safer to come out and play again.
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    Feb 09, 2009 2:48 PM GMT
    I personally think that some young people have been brought up with out any boundaries re. manners. What with both parents working, and outside influences from TV, the internet, videos, video games, music etc..

    I was raised in the 1960s and 1970s before cable TV. You could not watch movies at home on a video or DVD. Video games were not even thought of yet. Neither was the internet. Being a parent nowadays is much more difficult.

    Not all young people are rude. Certainly none of my four nieces and nephew are. But that was because their parents (especially the mothers) made sure that was the case.

    I am glad that so many guys in their late teens are out in the gay community and on RJ. I just wish that some of them would think a bit before putting fingers to keyboard.
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:01 PM GMT


    I think some of these young guys are so much rude as just plain awkward. They're experimenting with talking about stuff and asking for help or opinions on a website that's full of men. If they've been lurking a little and reading some of the nasty that goes down as conversation in topics, it's not too surprising that they speak out from behind a vague profile and with a blunt approach.


    -Doug
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:25 PM GMT
    It actually doesn't have to do much with the media.

    In American society in general, the youth is taught that they are the greatest thing in the world, the generation that will bring peace, and that their dreams will come true. This not only comes from parents encouragement but from the schools too. So kids are taught that they are the greatest thing since peanut butter all their life; consequently, youth now is too self-absorbed to care much about somebody else's feelings. Each and every one of -us- (I will include myself although I hate it) think that we know everything and have all the answers in the world, yet at the same time we never take action because we have also been raised in a time where we take everything for granted.

    I noticed this kind of behavior when I moved to the states when I was a teenager. =P I found it really lucky for people to have teachers who would encourage them so much... later I started thinking that it was a bit too preachy. and some other students thought they were too good for me, since I used to speak a broken heavily accented English. But somehow, I also missed the idea of a teacher telling you that you were a good for nothing, and that you have to work hard in order to get a little bit closer to what you want (these were my teachers in Mexico, lol)


    Anyways, the longer I lived here, the longer I adapted to the young American mentality. But I only use my own "superiority complex" against kids my age... or kids who consider school and education a waste (I feel extremely lucky for having the privilege of attending school)


    oh, ALSO! Youth today takes a lot of pride in their ignorance. They think it's cool to not know things. =/ silly right?
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:25 PM GMT
    oh stop.

    Kids are no worse today then they have ever been. It is easy for 19-20 year olds to be bitchy divas. Who cares if you have attitude when you are a freshman in college and working at Denny's? You can get by with a crap attitude when you are working a crap job. People learn with time that the way to make friends, get jobs, and have meaningful relationships is not by calling their fellow men fucktards.
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:29 PM GMT
    Go crazy-young people! Fight the power!!!



    icon_twisted.gificon_twisted.gificon_twisted.gif

    And how to act in gay society? I thought the whole conspiracy about there being a gay community was a myth, now you're saying there's a proper way to "act" within gay society?

    Screw that.

    What's wrong with today's old people? They're always complaining about something or other. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:31 PM GMT
    dragoonxi saidGo crazy-young people! Fight the power!!!



    icon_twisted.gificon_twisted.gificon_twisted.gif


    What's wrong with today's old people? They're always complaining about something or other. icon_rolleyes.gif



    When you're "old" (nice btw), it's called complaining, when you're young it's called bitching. icon_wink.gif
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:46 PM GMT
    xrichx saidYeah, I have to agree. It's not a gay thing. It's a sign of the times. Kids these days don't understand manners, courtesy, or tact. I mentioned it in a different thread, but today's generation has an elevated sense of self entitlement and lack of consideration for others. And it's gonna get worse.


    ... yay, ignorance!

    My generation is quite complex, and I wouldn't go shooting us down so quickly. I could list the accomplishments and strengths that I see in my generation, but I don't feel like anyone would care;listen anyway. I will say this much; yes my generation of gays missed out on a large part of gay culture and history by missing the rights movements and AIDS outbreak. Yes my generation has been somewhat more spoiled in the sense that being gay is more acceptable in the U.S.

    This does not make accepting yourself for who you are or learning to be comfortable with your sexuality any easier; I still had a lot of denial and self-hatred growing up that I hadn't learned how to cope with until recently.

    Still, I do wish my age of gays would have just a little more pride in actually being gay rather than just being glad to be able to fuck more than straight guys. Haha but then again this is 18-24 year old males we are talking about icon_biggrin.gif
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:48 PM GMT


    Hey dragoonxi, (nice handle by the way). Do we really complain all that much? icon_wink.gif

    -Doug of meninlove
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:56 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    Hey dragoonxi, (nice handle by the way). Do we really complain all that much? icon_wink.gif

    -Doug of meninlove


    Thanks, it's taken from my favorite childhood video game, The Legend of Dragoon.

    You know, there's always some snot-nosed kid on your lawn or the like. (jk) icon_wink.gif


    The moral of this story is that stereotypes don't always apply to all those described.
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    Feb 09, 2009 3:59 PM GMT
    It's not a gay thing

    It's not a straight thing

    It's not a young thing

    It's not an old thing

    It's a societal thing.

    Common courtesy is not really a priority in the world we live in ( OK maybe just in the US ... I've never traveled internationally! )

    Chucky speaks of the "I" mentality and I agree. But I don't believe that it's restricted to just the Y/i generation.

    There's simply not a premium placed on being nice. And that's reinforced by external messages, and our tendency to be voyeurs to other people's misfortunes. ( How many of us are guilty of grabbing the popcorn and watching flame wars here on RJ? )

    For me, the solution is to ensure I've surrounded myself with people who feel similarly as I do about how to treat each other, and to try to lead by example.
  • JayneCobb

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    Feb 09, 2009 4:06 PM GMT
    I have to act a certain way to be a part of gay culture now? What was so bad about being myself?

    I'm not just gay you know, I shouldn't have to base how I act around that small part of me.


    I think your confusing the uneducated with the youth (no, they are not one and the same).
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    Feb 09, 2009 4:11 PM GMT
    Oh come on. There have always been and always will be assholes in the world. And there has always been something to hate.

    It doesn't mean everyone is like that or even that it's a cultural norm.

    They are being honest in a forum where they feel comfortable, perhaps for the first time. Let's let them work through things.

    There are a lot of younger guys on here who have never had a relationship before, never been to a gay bar (lucky them) etc.

    One guy on here was being a total jerk, and several people (myself included) did engage in spirited response.

    Realjock is a unique community, and for some guys a refuge. If they can't express themselves here, they can't anywhere.

    No need for queer nazis. If someone becomes horribly offensive they get the boot. Other than that it's different ideas that can cross generational and geographic lines.

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    Feb 09, 2009 4:30 PM GMT
    lilmann> each new generation is getting worse

    Isn't that what led to the decay and demise of Rome?

    On the other hand, for those of us who are older than the "Today's [Gay] Youth", isn't that what our parents said about us?
    And our grandparents about our parents' generation?

    One of my grandfather's earliest memories is his grandparents leaving on a long journey... with him running behind the horse and carriage. Maybe that's why he later started a bus line. I don't even think they had bicycles. And yet here I am and can hop in my car and drive to Chicago on a moment's notice. Or get on a plane and traverse the continent - or oceans. How soft is that?

    Technology has solved many problems. Did you ever think how more complicated your life would be without refrigerators (just how big was the "ice box" and how many jugs of milk would fit in it?) Or Laundry machines, heralded as being a key component in women's lib? Not to mention things like electricity, flush toilets and daily showers (how prissy is that, Mr. masculine?)


    SurrealLife> I was raised in the 1960s and 1970s before cable TV. You could not watch movies at home on a video or DVD. Video games were not even thought of yet. Neither was the internet. Being a parent nowadays is much more difficult.

    Being a good parent, yes. Being a bad parent is easier... just look at all the "babysitters" you mentioned above.

    Then again, maybe we're just jealous. Wouldn't it have been neat to have all that as kids?
    (Hmmm, wonder if there is any study on lack of imagination in kids these days.)


    Each generation will glide through things that were a challenge for the previous generation... but will encounter their own challenges.
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    Feb 09, 2009 4:36 PM GMT
    I agreee. It does seem many of the youth today have no manners. Thier life expereinces are limited, yet as it has always been youth gets that "I know everything" attitude.

    Many years ago youth respected thier elders for thier knowledge and look to them for answers. now they tell us the answers.

    Yes times and people change. However common respect to the elders should never changes. Good common manner should never go out of style but they do often.

    I have encountered a couple of these ill mannered youths. They claim to be educated. Educated because they go to school and read a book. Lifes's education is really just beginning for them. As time goes on they will find these books knew very little about real life. Fact is thier arrogant because they read a book. Yet ignorant about life. It reflects in thier attitudes and manners.

  • Klutch84

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    Feb 09, 2009 4:54 PM GMT
    I think that's ALL youth (gay, straight, yesterday, today, tomorrow).

    Everyone goes through the phase where when they're a teen, they think they know everything and have all the answers.

    Then somewhere between the early to mid-twenties life hits you and reality sets in, leaving you with the thought "Damn, I thought I knew everything..." realizing you really knew nothing at all.

    Around 30 (earlier or later for some), you truly begin to figure out "life" and how it all works. I have mostly older gay friends and my straight friends are all around my age. Regardless of who the source is (gay or straight), my elder counterparts agree wholeheartedly that what I just stated is true and has happened to them.

    Of course there are exceptions but eh. What's your take?
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    Feb 09, 2009 5:00 PM GMT
    Then again, maybe we're just jealous. Wouldn't it have been neat to have all that as kids?
    (Hmmm, wonder if there is any study on lack of imagination in kids these days.)


    I must admit I am one person who is happy that he grew up when he did. I would hate to be 19 in the 21st century.

    Video games and TV bore me very quickly. I like having to make a mental effort and not have everything done for me and be a passive recipient. Maybe developing new video games would be more interesting.