Syrian Orthodox Christians threaten to leave Palestine after archbishop’s arrest by the Palestinian police

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    Apr 18, 2016 3:29 AM GMT
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    [url]http://www.albawaba.com/news/syrian-orthodox-christians-threaten-leave-palestine-after-archbishop%E2%80%99s-arrest-824622[/url]
    Palestinian police in the southern occupied West Bank district of Bethlehem arrested on Saturday the spiritual head of the Syrian Orthodox Church in Palestine and Jordan, Palestinian security sources said.

    Eyewitness and follower of the Syrian Orthodox Church Shamiran Ketlo told Ma’an via telephone that she saw Palestinian police obstructing a parade celebrating Archbishop Sewerios Malki Murad’s visit to Bethlehem on the main road to the Church of the Nativity and took him into custody.

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  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 21, 2016 5:37 AM GMT
    The Syriani or Syriac community fled the Syrian/Turkish/Iraqi border area in the 2nd decade of the 20th century and migrated to the area that after WW I would become Mandate Palestine.

    160406_murad.jpg
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 24, 2016 5:49 PM GMT
    AyaTrolLiar founcer> Palestinian adherents of both Christianity and Islam claim descent from many native and regional groups, and are united, to the chagrin of Israel, as Palestinians.

    Thread> Syrian Orthodox Christians threaten to leave Palestine after archbishop’s arrest by the Palestinian police

    Wups. By now we all know that trolls can never address a topic in its thread.

    We furthermore see how the AyaTrolLiar couldn't care less about Syriacs beyond claiming they are "united" against Israel.

    People used to also claim the Samaritans as such, not realizing that they fled from areas under the Palestinian Authority to... Israel.


    The Syriani or Syriac community fled the Syrian/Turkish/Iraqi border area in the 2nd decade of the 20th century and migrated to the area that after WW I would become Mandate Palestine.

    ATLF> Which sounds like a significant chunk of the Palestinian community is not indigenous to the land.
    Until we ask how many Palestinians are Syriac Christians?
    Oh yes (just like Circassians, Kurds, Armenians, Bosnians, Algerians etc.)

    See how he simply can't (ever) address a thread?
    There was nothing in my post that suggested anything about a "chunk".
    Notice though how he doesn't mention Arabs from the "region"?
    Be it Syria/Lebanon, Tran-Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt... or even Morocco?
    (Previously he's conceded that in 1948 there were 100,000-200,000
    such recent immigrants with their descendants - As much as 16% of the population!)

    Arabs (like Arabic) NOT indigenous to Israel
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4019405
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 25, 2016 1:05 AM GMT
    People used to also claim the Samaritans as such [unified against Israel], not realizing that they fled from areas under the Palestinian Authority to... Israel.

    Examples from RJ alone:

    "mrpaliguy"> Samaritans in Nablus are much closer to Palestinian society. I have a friend who is Samaritan living in Nablus and consider himself Palestinian with the Palestinian ID

    GladiatorSam> We few Palestinian Jews living in Judea and Samaraia. They are Samaritan Palestinian

    GladiatorSam> I know many Armenians, Samaritans, and Bedouins consider themselves Palestinians

    GladiatorSam> The Palestinian Samaritans carry their own Jewish Torah all over the West Bank and living side by side with Palestinian Christian and Muslims.

    "IanCT"> I have some Samaritan friends in Nablus. They call themselves Palestinians all the time. Read their history. Israeli treated them like trash and they always felt that they were treated like other Palestinians in Nablus.


    ATLF> [Samaritans] Are Jews, hence hardly surprising they would flee

    Likewise it's hardly surprising that trolls claim they live as equals in "Palestine"... only when the truth comes out that they don't, to explain it with further lies such as that they want to "live in a country that grants special privileges to Jews".

    Not one for consistency, elsewhere AyaTrolLiar founcer claims that non-Ashkenazi Jews are subjects of discrimination in Israel. So we're to believe that Samaritans fled (fled!) their wonderfully equal lives (as "Palestinians") in "Palestine" to go to Israel to be discriminated against?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 25, 2016 4:16 PM GMT
    GladiatorSam> I have friends that are Samaritans in Nablus.

    Isn't it amazing that of the 345 Samaritans who used to live in Nablus, three people on RJ claim to have "friends" amongst them? If these were 3 people from Nablus, who lived all their lives there, maybe there'd be a small chance that's true. Yet all 3 live in America and were small children at the time that the Samaritans fled Nablus (as even ATLF admits) for areas under Israeli control.

    You'd think that if they actually had Samaritan friends, they'd have known that the Samaritans fled Nablus for near Har Bracha about a quarter century ago.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 25, 2016 4:19 PM GMT
    Again note how AyaTrolLiar & GladiatorSam couldn't care less about Syriacs beyond claiming they are "united" against Israel

    ATLF> They are ["united" against Israel].

    GS> [they are] Palestinians

    ROTFL. There begins and ends their concern.

    About this thread, they still have nothing to say.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 26, 2016 4:55 AM GMT
    GladiatorSam> "Israeli Christians" is a new identity in Israel. Two years ago, they were called Israeli Arab Christian

    It's not new, they've been called that for nearly 70 years.
    Thus, give or take 20 years, it's about as old as "Palestinian".

    The Emergence of Palestinian Arab Nationalism
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4193729


    GladiatorSam> They believe Arab is a term for Muslim.

    Nowhere have they said so.
    They merely said that they are not Arab or Palestinian but are, ethnically, Aramean.


    GladiatorSam> those few people that don't represent Palestinian people

    They don't claim to represent anyone else.
    Unlike you, who are trying to dictate their identity to them.


    Because you want them "unified" against Israel... when they're not.

    Same with the Samaritans.

    Both groups currently request their children be conscripted to the Israel Defense Forces.

    Which makes AyaTrolLiar founcer's comment all the more hilarious:

    ATLF> Unlike some I don't attempt to foist identities on the unwilling, demanding they conform to my personal politics and desires.

    That is exactly what they are doing when they insist that groups that don't identify as "Palestinian" are.

  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 26, 2016 4:57 AM GMT
    AyaTrolLiar founcer lives up to his name; he lies and cooks data:

    ATLF> I claimed there were (at most) about 44,000 Arab immigrants to Palestine from 1897 to 1948 - about 3% of the population.

    I believe he admitted that about that many came just from Hauran in a few months in 1934 (the Governor of Hauran stated that 30,000-36,000 had then left for Mandate Palestine).

    ATLF> Arabs from the Hauran were seasonal guestworkers who returned home in the winter.

    Please provide a source to support that invention.
    (Note that the governor stated they left to settle in Mandate Palestine, not to briefly work there.)

    ATLF> [silence]


    What he actually said (back in 2010) was that 100,000 to 200,000 had "recent immigrant background".

    ATLF> More lies, I claimed (at most) 44,000.

    Your exact comment ("no more than 100,000 to 200,000...had any recent immigrant background") was here:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/979648/?forumpage=2
    How unfortunate that all your posts were deleted when you were banned.

    ATLF> [caught lying again - it's pouncer pathological! - and hilariously accuses others of lying]
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 26, 2016 4:59 AM GMT
    ATLF> My objection was to the retarded attempt by Israel to persuade Palestinian Christians they are a different "ethnicity" to Palestinian Muslims because 2% of them are Syriacs.

    It actually worked the other way around. The Arameans persuading the Israeli government to make them a distinct minority.

    Israeli Christian Community, Neither Arab nor Palestinian, Are Fighting to Save Identity
    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.613727

    || With fellow Christians under attack around the Mideast, the campaign by Israel’s Aramean community to gain formal minority status has become more urgent. Meanwhile, some of its teens are joining a pre-army program.

    || These Arabic-speaking Christians insist on identifying themselves as Arameans, descendants of an ancient people who originated in what is now Syria and Iraq. In recent months, as their fellow Christians around the Middle East have been increasingly coming under attack, this community’s campaign to gain recognition as a separate minority in Israel has taken on a new urgency.

    || “We are not part of the Israeli-Arab conflict, but somehow we’ve been pulled into it,” laments Shadi Halul, director of the week-long Aramean Heritage Camp and a former lieutenant in the IDF Paratroopers’ Brigade. “We are not Arabs, and we are not Palestinians.”

    Wups. It is war-mongers like AyaTrolLiar founcer that attempt to twist the Arameans as being "unified" against Israel.
    Once again the trolling idiot is caught reversing the scientific method.


    ATLF> Recall the original lie that Palestinian Christians consider themselves "Arameans".

    Except no one made such an "original lie".
    All the lies where his.

    ATLF> [wups, caught in yet another pouncer pathological lie. He just can't help lying.]
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 26, 2016 5:09 AM GMT
    No wonder that is followed by this idiocy:

    ATLF> The population of Christians in the wider Middle East has expanded by 470% since 1900 (more than the population growth of the United States in the same period), yet in the former Palestine (handed over to the Zionist project) we see a decline of 92%.

    Given his epic inability to correctly calculate population growth (having previously made 2 different errors in 2 attempts) and history of fudging numbers (e.g. portraying the massive population growth in the last quarter of the 19th century as having taken place throughout the century - his own expert sources disagreeing with his invented numbers), one would be wise to doubt the figures.

    ATLF> [Fails to provide the raw figures, let alone sources - again]


    Regardless, his claim is based on multiple tricks. For example, the nearly 50% decline in eastern Jerusalem's Christian population between 1949-1967 he attempts to attribute to the "Zionist project", yet it was then under Arab/Muslim rule.

    ATLF> [wups]


    Despite the "Zionist project", the Arab Muslim population of Jerusalem has grown from 31,000 in 1946 to over 230,000 (nearly 800%!)

    Get it? He's boasting about an alleged 470% population growth over 115 years when there's been nearly 2x that growth in nearly half the time amongst Jerusalem Arab Muslims! (Then he misdirects with a comparison to US population growth. LOL.)


    ATLF> thinks that by calculating the growth rate of another ethnic group representing a fraction of the overall population, he disproves the facts.

    ROTFL. This coming from the person who sought to "prove" his "fact" by comparing growth rates to a completely different ethnic group on the other side of the world?!

    ATLF> [wups]


    Arab Muslims aren't "a fraction" but the vast majority of that population.

    ATLF> [wups]


    Did he really mean to say that Christian Arabs in Jerusalem are a different "ethnic group" from Muslim Arabs in Jerusalem?!

    ATLF> [wups]


    ATLF> The Palestinian Muslim population, which has grown at an even faster rate than the Christian population in the wider Middle East, during this period ["1900-2010"] declined by about 50%

    ROTFL. His favorite (selective) source, McCarthy, puts the total Arab population in 1893 at 553,000 and 20 years later at 738,000. Let's estimate that as 600,000 in 1900. Of which 20% was Christian (according to him) so we're down to ~480,000 in 1900.

    If the population declined by 50%, then in 2010 there would be only ~240,000 "Palestinian Muslims". Just in Israel, there were about 5x that many. In the WB&G, there are 17x as many.

    From 1900 to 2010, the "Palestinian Muslim population" has grown from 480,000 to over 5 million. That's more than 1000% growth, not 50% decline.

    Just. How. Stupid. Is. This. Troll?!


    ATLF> McCarthy is considered the authoritative source, and he offers estimations for 1900

    Which misses the point, of course. According to your source, the Arab population was 564,000 in 1900, of which some 462,500 were Muslims. That's not significantly different from my estimate of 480,000.

    The rest of the math barely changes. While the brain dead troll claims a 50% decline in population (meaning it would be 231,250 in 2010), it's around 1.2 million - still roughly 5x higher than he claims (and growth, not decline). From the river to the sea there are more than 5 million, still about 17x more than his "decline" percentage. And still around 1000% growth.

    ATLF> pretends the discussion is about absolute as opposed to proportional rates of growth, hence his retarded attempt to make hay out of "1000%"

    Yes, he really is that challenged when it comes to math.
    But it's really worse than that, it's just another pouncer pathological lie.
    The "discussion" began with his "470%" (unsupported absolute figure) which he compared (that doesn't make it a "proportional rate of growth", duh) to another number. So why not also compare it to 1000%?

    To wit, if the Muslim Arab population grew by 1000% between 1900 and 2010, and if the Christian population "in the wider Middle East" during the same time was only 470% (he claims), then it sounds like Christians have much more problems "in the wider Middle East" than Arabs have in Israel.


    Outside of Israel, where "in the wider Middle East" has there been Christian population growth in the last 50 years?

    ATFL> [flees, again]
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 26, 2016 5:12 AM GMT
    People used to also claim the Samaritans as such [unified against Israel], not realizing that they fled from areas under the Palestinian Authority to... Israel.

    Examples from RJ alone:

    "mrpaliguy"> Samaritans in Nablus are much closer to Palestinian society. I have a friend who is Samaritan living in Nablus and consider himself Palestinian with the Palestinian ID

    GladiatorSam> We few Palestinian Jews living in Judea and Samaraia. They are Samaritan Palestinian

    GladiatorSam> I know many Armenians, Samaritans, and Bedouins consider themselves Palestinians

    GladiatorSam> The Palestinian Samaritans carry their own Jewish Torah all over the West Bank and living side by side with Palestinian Christian and Muslims.

    "IanCT"> I have some Samaritan friends in Nablus. They call themselves Palestinians all the time. Read their history. Israeli treated them like trash and they always felt that they were treated like other Palestinians in Nablus.


    ATLF> [Samaritans] Are Jews, hence hardly surprising they would flee

    Likewise it's hardly surprising that trolls claim they live as equals in "Palestine"... only when the truth comes out that they don't, to explain it with further lies such as that they want to "live in a country that grants special privileges to Jews".

    Not one for consistency, elsewhere AyaTrolLiar founcer claims that non-Ashkenazi Jews are subjects of discrimination in Israel. So we're to believe that Samaritans fled (fled!) their wonderfully equal lives (as "Palestinians") in "Palestine" to go to Israel to be discriminated against?


    ATLF> [flees]


    GladiatorSam> I have friends that are Samaritans in Nablus.

    Isn't it amazing that of the 345 Samaritans who used to live in Nablus, three people on RJ claim to have "friends" amongst them? If these were 3 people from Nablus, who lived all their lives there, maybe there'd be a small chance that's true. Yet all 3 live in America and were small children at the time that the Samaritans fled Nablus (as even ATLF admits) for areas under Israeli control.

    You'd think that if they actually had Samaritan friends, they'd have known that the Samaritans fled Nablus for near Har Bracha about a quarter century ago.

    Especially since we already had this discussion years ago.
    Guess he "forgot" and just regurgitated his "narrative" of lies.

    GS> [wups]
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 26, 2016 5:13 AM GMT
    Again note how AyaTrolLiar & GladiatorSam couldn't care less about Syriacs beyond claiming they are "united" against Israel

    ATLF> They are ["united" against Israel].

    GS> [they are] Palestinians

    ROTFL. There begins and ends their concern.

    About this thread, they still have nothing to say.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 26, 2016 5:48 AM GMT
    Rather than spinning confabulated fictions as "truth", why don't you address the thread topic?

    Rather than lying to us about the Samaritans (who already fled areas under PA control - about a quarter century ago), why don't you explain to us why the Syriacs are threatening to leave, too?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 26, 2016 3:37 PM GMT
    Only 5,000 - so that makes it OK to persecute this minority?

    Or for trolls to divert because their hate of Jews/Israel is stronger than their love of Samaritans, Syriacs and others?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 26, 2016 5:54 PM GMT
    Yes, the news article speaks of the entire community, numbering 5,000, leaving.
    Just as 100 years ago they fled Ottoman persecution in Syria.

    Is it any surprise that more than a week and dozens of post into this thread, AyaTrolLiar founcer hasn't even familiarized himself with the OP?

    He lives only to troll and hate.

    (Not that it works very well as he continuously makes a fool of himself on point after point. See above.)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 26, 2016 6:21 PM GMT
    curious; is pouncer a soc account for mwolverine?
    dont really careicon_cool.gif
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Apr 26, 2016 6:33 PM GMT
    I know his arguments are so idiotic and his lies so transparent that it can seem like he's a plant, but no, best I can tell AyaTrolLiar (my evolution of AlphaTrigger's name for him, "AyaTrollah") founcer (to remind him there's no "P" in Arabic) is a real person, though an "all around shitty excuse for a human being" (to quote Sharkspear) and "pile of dogshit" (to quote theantijock).

    pellaz saidcurious; is pouncer a soc account for mwolverine?
    dont really careicon_cool.gif


    Looks like he was just banned, again.