The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

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    Apr 20, 2016 12:39 AM GMT

    One could only hope for a progressive miracle icon_confused.gif


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/19/the-texas-secession-movement-is-getting-kind-of-serious/


    When Texas Republicans assemble for their state convention next month, it's possible they will debate whether Texas should secede from the United States.

    There's almost no chance Texas Republicans will actually vote in favor of seceding, mind you -- not least because most of the party wants nothing to do with this -- but the fact we're even mentioning secession and the Texas GOP convention in the same sentence suggests that the once-fringe movement has become a priority for at least some conservative grass-roots Texans.

    To be sure, that seems to be a relatively small group. The Texas secession movement says 22 out of the 270 county GOP conventions passed some kind of independence resolution this spring. A party official said he'd be "surprised if that were the case, and the Houston Chronicle was able to confirm only 10 counties. But 10 is a lot more than the one county that passed an independence resolution in 2012.

    Texas Republicans say these independence resolutions are just a handful of tens of thousands various resolutions to be considered at their convention. But it does seem like the secession movement is growing, or at least organizing, and may have become too big for party officials to ignore.
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    Apr 20, 2016 1:33 AM GMT
    If Hillary or Bernie happen to get elected .. then it gets serious.
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    Apr 20, 2016 1:45 AM GMT
    I've been in favor of Texas secession for years. The State is nothing but a thorn in our side. Texans don't think of themselves as Americans.

    And as a former military man, who knows their National Guard structure very well, and how it's funded (and indeed in all the US), Texas would be left defenseless once it seceded from the Union.

    Their National Guard would lose their equipment, weapons, ammunition, and most of their operating budget. Their Texas Rangers would have more firepower.

    So that if Mexico should have a mind to reclaim the territory they lost in 1836 there'd be little armed resistance. That would be the ultimate irony for Anglo Texans, who hate Mexicans, to be declared Mexicans themselves.

    And have to learn Spanish as the official language. I would savor the day.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3287

    Apr 20, 2016 1:48 AM GMT
    Art_Deco saidI've been in favor of Texas secession for years. The State is nothing but a thorn in our side. Texans don't think of themselves as Americans.

    And as a former military man, who knows their National Guard structure very well, and how it's funded (and indeed in all the US), Texas would be left defenseless once it seceded from the Union.

    Their National Guard would lose their equipment, weapons, ammunition, and most of their operating budget. Their Texas Troopers would have more firepower.

    So that if Mexico should have a mind to reclaim the territory they lost in 1836 there'd be little armed resistance. That would be the ultimate irony for Anglo Texans, who hate Mexicans, to be declared Mexicans themselves.

    And have to learn Spanish as the official language. I would savor the day.


    Thanks for the laugh. And we are alot safer with you retired captain Kangaroo.
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    Apr 20, 2016 2:11 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    Art_Deco saidI've been in favor of Texas secession for years. The State is nothing but a thorn in our side. Texans don't think of themselves as Americans.

    And as a former military man, who knows their National Guard structure very well, and how it's funded (and indeed in all the US), Texas would be left defenseless once it seceded from the Union.

    Their National Guard would lose their equipment, weapons, ammunition, and most of their operating budget. Their Texas Troopers would have more firepower.

    So that if Mexico should have a mind to reclaim the territory they lost in 1836 there'd be little armed resistance. That would be the ultimate irony for Anglo Texans, who hate Mexicans, to be declared Mexicans themselves.

    And have to learn Spanish as the official language. I would savor the day.


    Thanks for the laugh. And we are alot safer with you retired captain Kangaroo.




    Only from the stupid, sociopathic criminal minds, fear mongering, right wing nut, hillbilly hicks of Texas icon_rolleyes.gif





  • musclmed

    Posts: 3287

    Apr 20, 2016 2:25 AM GMT
    In the end for some its just about the "clan" and party.

    Its obvious your hate runs deep.
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    Apr 20, 2016 3:55 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    Thanks for the laugh. And we are alot safer with you retired captain Kangaroo.

    And what exactly are your military qualifications? Have you ever inspected Texas National Guard Units, as I have? Do you know how the Federal funding of all National Guard units works? And how little of their Guard equipment the States actually own? And who actually underwrites their payrolls and operating budgets?

    Right, you know zilch about it. Secede from the Union and the Texas National Guard becomes little more than a Boy Scout Troop. Where are their defenses then? Rearming and reequipping would take years, and cost millions they likely can't afford.

    This is something I know about, as a professional senior Army Officer. And what do YOU know, Private Bozo?
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3287

    Apr 20, 2016 4:36 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    musclmed said
    Thanks for the laugh. And we are alot safer with you retired captain Kangaroo.

    And what exactly are your military qualifications? Have you ever inspected Texas National Guard Units, as I have? Do you know how the Federal funding of all National Guard units works? And how little of their Guard equipment the States actually own? And who actually underwrites their payrolls and operating budgets?

    Right, you know zilch about it. Secede from the Union and the Texas National Guard becomes little more than a Boy Scout Troop. Where are their defenses then? Rearming and reequipping would take years, and cost millions they likely can't afford.

    This is something I know about, as a professional senior Army Officer. And what do YOU know, Private Bozo?


    nothing really. Only what you say on here.

    First that you have a seizure disorder and drink. And also drive ....

    I doubt your "Colleagues" got together on anything. Especially agreeing upon items and intelligence they do not have at the time. And especially would never retrospectively criticize it either.

    Get your story straight. Your a professional BS artist. Stay at the cut and paste Wikipedia level, its more believable.

    I happen to take care of a sizable veteran community. They do not throw rank , around like you do so indiscriminately.

    Your not impressing anyone. Your just embarrassing yourself.
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    Apr 20, 2016 8:19 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidI've been in favor of Texas secession for years. The State is nothing but a thorn in our side. Texans don't think of themselves as Americans.


    Don't presume to speak for Texas or what Texans think. Just not cool. Let's leave it at that.
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    Apr 20, 2016 10:09 PM GMT
    musclmed said
    Art_Deco said
    musclmed said
    Thanks for the laugh. And we are alot safer with you retired captain Kangaroo.

    And what exactly are your military qualifications? Have you ever inspected Texas National Guard Units, as I have? Do you know how the Federal funding of all National Guard units works? And how little of their Guard equipment the States actually own? And who actually underwrites their payrolls and operating budgets?

    Right, you know zilch about it. Secede from the Union and the Texas National Guard becomes little more than a Boy Scout Troop. Where are their defenses then? Rearming and reequipping would take years, and cost millions they likely can't afford.

    This is something I know about, as a professional senior Army Officer. And what do YOU know, Private Bozo?


    nothing really. Only what you say on here. HTTP ADDRESS GOES HERE

    First that you have a seizure disorder and drink. And also drive ....

    I doubt your "Colleagues" got together on anything. Especially agreeing upon items and intelligence they do not have at the time. And especially would never retrospectively criticize it either.

    Get your story straight. Your a professional BS artist. Stay at the cut and paste Wikipedia level, its more believable.

    I happen to take care of a sizable veteran community. They do not throw rank , around like you do so indiscriminately.

    Your not impressing anyone. Your just embarrassing yourself.


    "Your" not either.

    http://grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/youre_your.htm
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Apr 21, 2016 1:18 AM GMT
    I am sick and tired of conservatives yelling about how much they hate America. Is anyone forcing them to stay here?
    Please, Republican whiners, by all means LEAVE if you hate our country so much!
    No, you do not get to take land and resources with you, but you are free to move your pathetic clan to any number of foreign countries, and then you won't have to endure the gays, the black president, the imagined people coming for your guns, or your paranoid fantasy of the day brought to you by conservative talk radio.
    Please, Conservatives -- we're tired of hearing about it. Just leave and be done with it.
  • Bylt4U

    Posts: 38

    Apr 21, 2016 2:02 AM GMT
    Texans deny climate change but reality still bites: they are running out of water to irrigate those ranches. The frequency of severe weather events keeps increasing with horrific costs.
    The collapse in oil prices is and will continue to squeeze more Texans below the poverty line.
    Anti-science, evangelical education will produce a generation of Taliban-like Christian graduates, not to mention a growing underclass of children born because abstinence-only education fails.

    They will never go. They will see the $$$$ profitability of staying in the Union but will vilify 'Washington' for all their problems.

    Canada's existential crisis has always been the French factor of Quebec. Desire for separation has risen and fallen over the decades. Most Quebecois recognize they are better off within Canada. Their beef has never been primarily politically-based but understandably due to anxiety over their linguistic and cultural survival as a small minority on a large continent.
    So what did Canadians do to try to ease this fear? We made French an official language and teach it in all our schools [admittedly, not with stellar results] In short, we tell them best as we can that we love them.... and move on with our lives.

    Can you see Texans taking that attitude towards Hispanics?
    You tell me, cuz I dunno.


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    Apr 21, 2016 2:41 AM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    Art_Deco saidI've been in favor of Texas secession for years. The State is nothing but a thorn in our side. Texans don't think of themselves as Americans.

    Don't presume to speak for Texas or what Texans think. Just not cool. Let's leave it at that.

    I only lived there for over 4 years, was a voting legal Texas State citizen myself. They don't call themselves the "Lone State State" for nothing, their 1-star State flag the same one they had for the 2 years they were an independent Republic. Which they still think they are. Fine. Let them be one again. I will cheer them on. Right into a self-inflicted and well deserved disaster.

    Being raised elsewhere I could see the nuttiness of the place. Maybe it's YOU who's got those Texas blinders on. That you fail to see what everyone else with common sense sees.
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    Apr 21, 2016 2:46 AM GMT
    KissTheSky saidI am sick and tired of conservatives yelling about how much they hate America. Is anyone forcing them to stay here?
    Please, Republican whiners, by all means LEAVE if you hate our country so much!
    No, you do not get to take land and resources with you, but you are free to move your pathetic clan to any number of foreign countries, and then you won't have to endure the gays, the black president, the imagined people coming for your guns, or your paranoid fantasy of the day brought to you by conservative talk radio.
    Please, Conservatives -- we're tired of hearing about it. Just leave and be done with it.

    Bravo!!!

    icon_biggrin.gif
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    Apr 21, 2016 3:39 AM GMT
    You know you're the best when everyone hates you icon_cool.gif
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    Apr 21, 2016 4:11 AM GMT
    But, in all seriousness, I know it's hard for ideologues and political hacks to understand that cultural identity goes beyond ideology, but people in Texas (as they do in Quebec, Scotland, etc etc) have overlapping cultural identities that are much more even and flat than people from other states or other countries. We were our own country for over a decade (contrary to whatever left-wing hemlock Art_Deco imbibes), and we were always both similar and different culturally from the rest of the Southern states. Nowadays those unique and distinctive characteristics persist, even if they morph over time. For example, Hispanic culture has permeated throughout Texan culture and cuisine in a way that is very different from the past, and yet this is also something that keeps us unique and distinct from our fellow Southern states.
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1037

    Apr 21, 2016 4:35 AM GMT
    It always astounds me how people can paint one of our most populous states all one color, as if everyone who lives there shares a single mind. I guess that's the way you see things if you have a binary brain - you can't conceive of anything more complex than ones and zeroes.

    Fact is, in 2012, 41% of Texas voted for Obama. That's 3.3 million people. In 2008, 44% of Texas voted for Obama (3.5 million people).

    In the late 70s, Houston had the best organized gay rights movement in the country (granted, out of necessity) - their Gay Political Caucus was a true force in city and state elections. The level of involvement of their gay community put the east and west coasts to shame.

    But secession? Well hell, the nutbags have been talking about that for decades. They tried it once. It didn't work.
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    Apr 21, 2016 4:48 AM GMT
    KJSharp said
    We were our own country for over a decade (contrary to whatever left-wing hemlock Art_Deco imbibes), and we were always both similar and different culturally from the rest of the Southern states. Nowadays those unique and distinctive characteristics persist, even if they morph over time. For example, Hispanic culture has permeated throughout Texan culture and cuisine in a way that is very different from the past, and yet this is also something that keeps us unique and distinct from our fellow Southern states.

    The only thing I imbibe in this regard is history, which I taught. You might try a drink of it yourself some time.

    Texas (Tay-has) was a Spanish colonial possession from 1690 to 1821. That's when the Spanish missions, like the Alamo, were established.

    Texas became a part of independent Mexico in 1821. Settlers to Texas from the US fomented a rebellion, which resulted in the former Mexican territory declaring independence in 1836 as the Republic of Texas. With its own President.

    in 1845, by popular vote, Texans applied for acceptance as a State in the US Union. Which they have been since. Therefore Texas was NOT independent for over a decade. It was more like 9 years. But as an effective, functional government most historians would lessen that span to barely half. A republic in name only.

    And as far as Texan culture, it was Spanish for nearly 150 years before US invaders Anglicized it. If it's becoming more Mexican now, it's merely returning to its roots.

    And BTW, what's with this "we"? Your RJ Profile says you're a Canadian.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2942

    Apr 21, 2016 4:50 AM GMT
    Let's not talk about Texas, but rather the regime running Texas. Nobody hates America like right-wing GOPers; but there are a lot of good folks in Texas. Let's just hope they find a way to be heard over the right-wing noise machine.
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    Apr 21, 2016 4:58 AM GMT
    I hate to say it, but we are no longer the cursed bunch. It's TEXAS! They're going down.....fast. Wait until that dam breaks. They will all be baptised with sewer water!!! LOL
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    Apr 21, 2016 5:05 AM GMT
    tazzari saidLet's not talk about Texas, but rather the regime running Texas. Nobody hates America like right-wing GOPers; but there are a lot of good folks in Texas. Let's just hope they find a way to be heard over the right-wing noise machine.

    I agree. I just fear the "good folks" as you call them in Texas are in the minority, and certainly have little influence. And they aren't being heard as you would hope.

    No, I judge Texas to be write-off as a US State. Let them finalize the process themselves, which I will applaud. They've always considered themselves to be an independent republic (and remember I lived there, and voted in their elections). Let them return to being one.

    For as long as they can defend it. My prediction is they will crumble, without the backing of the United States government.
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    Apr 21, 2016 5:22 AM GMT
    sorry, yes, I got the numbers mixed up. Was thinking 1835-1846, not 1836-1845**

    Maybe your claim that Texas was a republic for 2 years was a typo?
  • musclmed

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    Apr 21, 2016 5:36 AM GMT
    TIMinPS said
    musclmed said
    Art_Deco said
    musclmed said


    "Your" not either.

    http://grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/youre_your.htm


    Age regression.
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    Apr 21, 2016 5:47 AM GMT
    KJSharp saidsorry, yes, I got the numbers mixed up. Was thinking 1835-1846, not 1836-1845**

    Maybe your claim that Texas was a republic for 2 years was a typo?

    Not a typo, some text books suggest it. But the Texas Republic was indeed declared in 1836, and petitioned for US Statehood in 1845, a span of 9 years. Even if the "Republic" was dysfunctional and largely a paper entity for much of that time. That had to repel Mexican incursions to reclaim it.

    Their move for US Statehood may have been driven as much by continued Mexican threats as a desire to subordinate themselves to the Union. Plus their leaders had all been US citizens, with a wish to be "Americans" again. It's impossible to ever know their motivations from this distance in time.

    Suffice to say they had their independent Texas Republic, for how ever long it was functional, that they exchanged for Statehood. But have never fully accepted that status in their collective mind to this day. They're still the "Lone Star State" as a special entity, on their own conditions.

    I think the rest of the US is growing tired of their contrariness and nonconformity to the Federal government, and would be glad to see them gone. So let them make good on threats of secession - I for one won't shed a tear. They can all saddle up and ride off into the sunset - straight into Mexico, who'll reclaim them.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14395

    Apr 21, 2016 12:11 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidI've been in favor of Texas secession for years. The State is nothing but a thorn in our side. Texans don't think of themselves as Americans.

    And as a former military man, who knows their National Guard structure very well, and how it's funded (and indeed in all the US), Texas would be left defenseless once it seceded from the Union.

    Their National Guard would lose their equipment, weapons, ammunition, and most of their operating budget. Their Texas Rangers would have more firepower.

    So that if Mexico should have a mind to reclaim the territory they lost in 1836 there'd be little armed resistance. That would be the ultimate irony for Anglo Texans, who hate Mexicans, to be declared Mexicans themselves.

    And have to learn Spanish as the official language. I would savor the day.
    Absolutelyicon_exclaim.gif This is one issue that I agree with you 100% Art. Those miserable, ultra right wing bastards should secede permanently. The U.S. doesn't need Texas in the first place. They are not Americans, they are Texans. That is the prevailing attitude among the overwhelming majority of the lone star shithole's population and it is not just a small town and rural thing. It is also quite prevalent in the suburbs and the cities including the big major cities of Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, and Fort Worth. Even the horrendously overrated, supposedly progressive, liberal capital city of Austin there is a significantly large amount of secessionist attitudes and viewpoints. I say perfectly fine by me. Get your lone star shithole the fucking hell out of our perfect union known as the United States of America. We don't need you or want youicon_exclaim.gif Adios red neck motherfuckersicon_exclaim.gif