Should Bernie Sanders Call It Quits?

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    Apr 20, 2016 5:15 PM GMT
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    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/04/20/should-bernie-sanders-call-it-quits
    If Bernie Sanders’s enthusiastic rallies raised his supporters’ hopes that he could win the New York primary, Tuesday’s 16-point win by Hillary Clinton brought them back to reality.

    With the odds of his moving past her in the delegate race growing longer, should Sanders drop out of the race to avoid dividing the Democratic Party more and keeping Clinton from concentrating on the general election in November?

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    Apr 20, 2016 8:53 PM GMT
    As Clinton said (of her and Sanders), "There is more that unites us than divides us". Compare the civility of the Dem race with the knife fight in a phone booth of the GOP primaries. I think it's great that Sanders has turned the Dem primaries into a real contest, but he is going to have to face the reality that Clinton is more electable and better qualified than him to be president. In the 2008 primary, Clinton suspended her campaign on 7 June. Sanders should probably do the same.
  • Relajado

    Posts: 409

    Apr 21, 2016 12:50 AM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidAs Clinton said (of her and Sanders), "There is more that unites us than divides us". Compare the civility of the Dem race with the knife fight in a phone booth of the GOP primaries. I think it's great that Sanders has turned the Dem primaries into a real contest, but he is going to have to face the reality that Clinton is more electable and better qualified than him to be president. In the 2008 primary, Clinton suspended her campaign on 7 June. Sanders should probably do the same.


    Absolutely.

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    Apr 21, 2016 2:16 AM GMT
    Have you heard Sanders' supporters' and political strategists' statements following their candidate's NY defeat? Sanders and his avid fans will not stop until the Democratic Party is crippled because they have absolutely no loyalty to the party. I understand that Sanders is willing to poach Clinton's superdelegates even if Clinton reaches the magic number of 2,383 (pledged and unpledged) delegates. In other words, Sanders is ready to unleash destruction upon the very party under whose banner he is running. Don't count on Sanders dropping out or letting up. Sanders and his fans are living in an alternate reality where the facts don't matter, so don't hold your breath.
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    Apr 21, 2016 4:46 PM GMT
    pouncer said
    You do realise that Sanders defeats Trump and Cruz by landslides according to almost every poll that's been commissioned right?
    And that Hillary beats Trump by a much slimmer margin, and actually LOSES to Ted Cruz, in these same surveys?

    Given she has such a negative favourability rating, compared to Bernie's highly positive favourability rating, what else can we expect?


    I appreciate that's what the polls say, but head-to-head polls during the primary season really don't mean a great deal. I think anyone who believes a "democratic socialist" has a realistic path to the White House (even against that woeful pair of GOP front runners) is kidding himself.
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    Apr 21, 2016 5:25 PM GMT
    I see the conservaposse is back to macro-ing view counts. Are they in stalkmode or in puppetmode, I ask rhetorically. Pity, it is the most interesting thing about their character.

    Ex_Mil8 saidAs Clinton said (of her and Sanders), "There is more that unites us than divides us". Compare the civility of the Dem race with the knife fight in a phone booth of the GOP primaries. I think it's great that Sanders has turned the Dem primaries into a real contest, but he is going to have to face the reality that Clinton is more electable and better qualified than him to be president. In the 2008 primary, Clinton suspended her campaign on 7 June. Sanders should probably do the same.


    It was probably improbable of me to think it would stay on the very high road but I'm glad it hasn't stooped too far under any bus and I asked the question hoping it doesn't deteriorate further though I think the current level isn't too bad, somewhat refreshing actually. I do enjoy healthy debate. Certainly I've got no issues calling someone out if I by chance notice some fucked up thinking.

    If Bernie is the man I thought I voted for, then I'm not worried about reuniting the party after the primary, that he'd support Hillary should she get the popular vote.

    How many of his group could he bring along, those who were with us all along. Certainly some of his support is fringe, I don't know what becomes of them. But also he's got some true Democrats rooting for his win. This is actually a bit of a treat for me because I like both candidates.

    If it winds up being very close but she's got more of the popular vote (and I don't have percentages in mind) then I think it depends on how polling plays in the few days between conventions because we've no idea how the GOP convention will play out within their extreme possibilities or what candidate it will spit out. When they can change their own rules at any time, I'd not be surprised if they reanimated Reagan.

    My other concern goes to practicality that what I consider so far by what I've been shown of the email affair to be not what the GOP would make of it, yet I don't know where it winds up. By that, I'd hope Bernie would stay in the race in civil discourse until the last minute

    DOMINUS saidHave you heard Sanders' supporters' and political strategists' statements following their candidate's NY defeat? Sanders and his avid fans will not stop until the Democratic Party is crippled because they have absolutely no loyalty to the party. I understand that Sanders is willing to poach Clinton's superdelegates even if Clinton reaches the magic number of 2,383 (pledged and unpledged) delegates. In other words, Sanders is ready to unleash destruction upon the very party under whose banner he is running. Don't count on Sanders dropping out or letting up. Sanders and his fans are living in an alternate reality where the facts don't matter, so don't hold your breath.


    I think (hope) you're exaggerating a tad. He strikes me as a mostly reasonable guy particularly how early on he was not as concerned about superdelegates as was his supporters, seemingly understanding of the rules of the game he was playing.

    You seem to be trying to spray paint him with Trump gold leaf in a can but I don't believe he's that, not by his record, nor actions I know of and not by his words. He might not be your kind of Democrat but I remember the party before it got pulled so far over to the right by the dastardly GOP degrading Liberalism.

    Whether or not he wins the primary, I thank Bernie for his run. I hope this will go down as a pivotal moment in the Democratic Party, that we might steer back towards being truly & proudly liberal. And I don't care much for the progressives' current liberalism denouncements, which smells to me vestige of GOP shit.

    To me, liberalism is an underlayment, not an undermining of progress. Indeed it is what got us to this stage of social evolution despite conservatism's obstructionism. Progressivism can further put your money where your liberal mouth is.
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    Apr 21, 2016 5:49 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    pouncer said
    You do realise that Sanders defeats Trump and Cruz by landslides according to almost every poll that's been commissioned right?
    And that Hillary beats Trump by a much slimmer margin, and actually LOSES to Ted Cruz, in these same surveys?

    Given she has such a negative favourability rating, compared to Bernie's highly positive favourability rating, what else can we expect?


    I appreciate that's what the polls say, but head-to-head polls during the primary season really don't mean a great deal. I think anyone who believes a "democratic socialist" has a realistic path to the White House (even against that woeful pair of GOP front runners) is kidding himself.


    Well, maybe not yet in this bastion of capitalism but that is the correct direction, at least to move us away from laissez faire capitalism and to reverse the redistribution of the wealth to the wealthy. Realistically, how much change could even 8 years of Bernie accomplish of such lofty goals?

    For me the importance of his presidency would be to continue a conversation many of us have held at least internally but that finally now has a national voice. Without a win, change will still come, only slower. Hillary will have to incorporate some of this. Hell, even Trump is incorporating Bernie rhetoric. So even with a win, rest assured that conservatives will keep things from moving to quickly forward.

    But this is a separation of powers state, not a parliamentary system, so a Bernie win would not be installing a structurally new government, which Americans would find threatening. I'd look at this more as a flavor enhancement than an ingredient substitute.'

    I've said from the beginning that his primary win would surprise me but that his presidency would not. America does highly value innovation even if it also enjoys kicking and screaming and refusing to get out of the car.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14350

    Apr 21, 2016 10:05 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidAs Clinton said (of her and Sanders), "There is more that unites us than divides us". Compare the civility of the Dem race with the knife fight in a phone booth of the GOP primaries. I think it's great that Sanders has turned the Dem primaries into a real contest, but he is going to have to face the reality that Clinton is more electable and better qualified than him to be president. In the 2008 primary, Clinton suspended her campaign on 7 June. Sanders should probably do the same.
    Clinton is not better qualified for President. Sanders is the better qualified candidate and no he should not call it quits. If anyone is tearing apart the Democratic Party, it is the power hungry, incompetent, silver spooned whore Hillary.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14350

    Apr 21, 2016 10:43 PM GMT
    DOMINUS saidHave you heard Sanders' supporters' and political strategists' statements following their candidate's NY defeat? Sanders and his avid fans will not stop until the Democratic Party is crippled because they have absolutely no loyalty to the party. I understand that Sanders is willing to poach Clinton's superdelegates even if Clinton reaches the magic number of 2,383 (pledged and unpledged) delegates. In other words, Sanders is ready to unleash destruction upon the very party under whose banner he is running. Don't count on Sanders dropping out or letting up. Sanders and his fans are living in an alternate reality where the facts don't matter, so don't hold your breath.
    The democrats deserve that destruction as just punishment for supporting this corrupt, pathological liar Hillary. My home state of New York was fucking stupid for giving the highly unqualified, ethically challenged Hillary the democratic vote. Thankfully this state is largely irrelevant in the Presidential race and hopefully it's statewide population will keep on declining. Sanders should not let up because he is a far better and more qualified candidate than that bitch who has no legitimate right running for President in the first place.
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    Apr 27, 2016 4:16 PM GMT
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/26/opinions/sanders-is-not-dropping-out-opinion-obeidallah/
    The best reason Sanders should stay in the race goes back to what he said that spring day in May 2015: This is not a political campaign, but a "political revolution."

    Sanders winning the Democratic nomination and even the White House is truly not the prize that Sanders, or many of his supporters, are seeking. He wants to transform the system. This is a man who vowed when he launched his campaign that "we're going to build a movement of millions of Americans who are prepared to stand up and fight back." And he has done just that.

    He has even moved Clinton to not just discuss the issues he has championed but also embrace his positions on issues like raising the national minimum wage to $15 to opposing the Trans Pacific Partnership.

    And Sanders is already pushing for changes to the 2016 Democratic platform to embrace even more of the issues that are the cornerstone of his campaign.

    What the media simply doesn't grasp is that while Sanders may have fewer delegates than Clinton, he will never "drop out." The issues he's fighting for in this campaign are his life's work. Regardless of who wins this election, Sanders will continue, as he told us last May, to ask people to join him in his campaign to "build a future that works for all of us, and not just the few on top."

    And the more we talk about the issues Sanders is championing, the more it becomes clear that Sanders has already won.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Apr 27, 2016 8:54 PM GMT
    He was rendered irrelevant when he lost the NYC primary.

    Yesterday's losses just added more nails to his political coffin.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Apr 27, 2016 8:56 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said...
    I appreciate that's what the polls say, but head-to-head polls during the primary season really don't mean a great deal. I think anyone who believes a "democratic socialist" has a realistic path to the White House (even against that woeful pair of GOP front runners) is kidding himself.



    Agree.
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    Apr 27, 2016 9:17 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidClinton is not better qualified for President. Sanders is the better qualified candidate and no he should not call it quits. If anyone is tearing apart the Democratic Party, it is the power hungry, incompetent, silver spooned whore Hillary.


    A majority of your fellow Americans beg to differ:

    Screen-Shot-2016-04-13-at-7.51.50-PM-e14
    Source: YouGov poll of about 2,000 people conducted April 8-11, margin of error ±2.8 percent.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/04/14/hillary-clinton-is-the-only-candidate-who-a-majority-of-americans-say-is-qualified-to-be-president/
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3384

    Apr 28, 2016 12:29 AM GMT
    I'm only surprised that Kasich comes in that low.