A quote (and a long rant)

  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Apr 28, 2016 3:37 AM GMT
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity -Yeats


    I have never heard of this person before, nor the quote, until i saw it on some guy's signature on an MMA forum i am a part of.


    About the quote, i would say it speaks to me because although i don't lack all conviction i do lack an awful lot when it comes to relationships and well life in general. I do also tend to have an unrealistic passionate intensity for short bursts.


    For awhile now i have had this idea about fairness and it's in regard to my lack of conviction, i don't really trust anyone and certainly would never advise anyone trusting me to any great extent, as far as in a romantic context. But i of course don't want to be alone. So i have to lie about my ability to be trusted and my ability to trust.


    So i feel like i am not sure where to go. I think everyone is like me but just aren't honest about it or are too weak or smart to face their true inner nature. I could of course be wrong, that's not the issue, the issue is that i don't think i am wrong so i feel like everyone else is just the same as me but less aware or as aware but not vocal about their own capabilities or limitations.

    I mean "we're totally going to fuck each other over if it suits us" is no way to begin a relationship, yet that's the status of every relationship, atleast in my mind. I don't know how to navigate that cognitive dissonance without feeling like i am being dishonest. And i feel like most people, "nice people" get the benefit of lying to themselves. "oh i just wasn't feeling it anymore" "oh it just happened" that type of thing.

    I guess, i am just not attached to any idea of myself as a good person or a honest person or a moral person in the sense that i am not afraid to imagine myself as a bad person, so i question my own motivations all the time, and i can see how they are deeply selfish.



    So i am here, with a very jaded view of relationships but i do enjoy them. And people need the fantasy, there isn't really much there without it. Yet i can only sort of have it in an ironical sort of sense.


    Anyways, i am thinking of getting together with a friend who is married and a type of compulsive liar. I am fairly certain she is not aware she is a type of compulsive liar but hey that's what makes her special.
    Atleast she's the same sort of person as me even if she isn't aware that she is.

    I don't know. I am bored and i miss romance but i am so far from sincere, although very sincere in the moment but i can't live in the moment.


    Really i am an odd sort of psychopath, basically. And it's very troublesome. I feel empathy and guilt and all those things but only sometimes. And i am not sure how to mesh that with a romantic relationship. I've tried dishonesty and it was a horrible failure. I've tried honesty and it was another horrible failure. Perhaps a worse one. How can you be honest, and tell someone you don't really care if they live or die....but you love them, just not all the time and you would be pretty ok if they just went away.

    You can't obviously. So you have to lie, and i hate lying. If feels horrible to say "i love you" when you don't. Horrible. I am an odd sort of psychopath.



    So that is sort of the bind i find myself in. I don't want to hurt anyone and lie to them but i am not ok with just being alone forever. I dislike lying, it's draining, but i have to do it because relationships just don't workout if you don't. The problem for me, so much of it so often is a lie. Sometimes it requires just a massive amount of energy just to respond to any question being asked, like i really don't care at all about your fucking feelings sometimes. Then i do a lot! Just not all the time. And you can't share that with people. Nobody wants to believe the person sleeping next to them could really just snuff them out and be pretty ok with it for the most part.


    It's not like i am dangerous or anything. To be dangerous you have to care. I don't care enough to be dangerous. I mean, i don't care consistently enough to be dangerous. I could be really dangerous for like a few minutes but then i would get distracted by a funny joke i heard.



    So essentially i am not sure if i am some sort of pussy for caring too much that i might hurt someone's feelings. Or if i am an asshole because i am going to make someone fall in love with me when i know perfectly well i am not really capable of loving anyone back.

    Seriously? Am i pussy? Or am I an asshole?




  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 28, 2016 5:15 AM GMT
    You seem more like a sophomore who needs to go back and read the poem again.

    Which, if I recall, is chillingly a propos for this weird political season.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 28, 2016 5:25 AM GMT
    You're either an evil genius or just fucked up in the head. I'm leaning more towards the later.
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    Apr 28, 2016 5:26 AM GMT
    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Apr 28, 2016 3:30 PM GMT


    I've never read that poem before. As i mentioned i saw a quote on some guys signature that was interesting. I feel like you are getting too hung up on the quote. icon_smile.gif


    you seem more like a sophomore who needs to go back and read the poem again.



    So i am struggling with what kind of advice this is for me. Could you explain what i am meant to be understanding by reading this poem.


    You're either an evil genius or just fucked up in the head. I'm leaning more towards the later


    Normally i would just laugh and agree that i am fucked up in the head, which i am, but since i put a fair amount of time and honesty into my post and you put zero time and were just insulting in your reply, i will just point out your spelling error. It's not that spelling is so important but when you jot down one sentence atleast try and make it error free. Perhaps i am just being overly sensitive because you are the second of two dickish replies.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 28, 2016 6:28 PM GMT
    badbug saidbut since i put a fair amount of time and honesty into my post

    This is a forum, which in my opinion isn't the best place to spend lots of time expressing your soul searching. Forums are more suited for aphorisms. (And arguments.)
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    Apr 28, 2016 7:52 PM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    I'd think children were exposed to Yeats by high school.

    I could see where the personality you describe would relate to the line you quoted because at least out of context it seems to speak to an un-transcended detachment which can have its advantages, but perhaps not at cost.

    The more a person connects, the harder it might be to move on, be that from any tragedy or a relationship gone bad or a job no longer rewarding, etc. So you might view their passion as a fault or rationalize your own alienation as a benefit and it might sometimes be depending upon how you define and value things.

    To your concern on whether what might be or what you see as your disconnect makes impossible a relationship, see the article I posted here about a scientist who was unaware of his own personality disorder until he found out by accident that he had it too...

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4101722
    article:
    ...when he went home and told his wife what had happened — how his brain resembled that of a psychopath, at least according to his theory — she reacted very strangely.

    It wasn't that surprising, she said.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    Apr 28, 2016 10:33 PM GMT
    Did you mean Yeats or Yeast???icon_neutral.gif
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    Apr 28, 2016 11:07 PM GMT
    venue35 saidDid you mean Yeats or Yeast???icon_neutral.gif

    Brewer's Yeast or Bread Yeast?
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    Apr 28, 2016 11:43 PM GMT
    badbug said

    I've never read that poem before. As i mentioned i saw a quote on some guys signature that was interesting. I feel like you are getting too hung up on the quote. icon_smile.gif


    you seem more like a sophomore who needs to go back and read the poem again.



    So i am struggling with what kind of advice this is for me. Could you explain what i am meant to be understanding by reading this poem.


    You're either an evil genius or just fucked up in the head. I'm leaning more towards the later


    Normally i would just laugh and agree that i am fucked up in the head, which i am, but since i put a fair amount of time and honesty into my post and you put zero time and were just insulting in your reply, i will just point out your spelling error. It's not that spelling is so important but when you jot down one sentence atleast try and make it error free. Perhaps i am just being overly sensitive because you are the second of two dickish replies.




    Boo, I ain't got time to analyze you, much less proofread every piece of bullshit I puke up here on RJ. You're lucky I even read through your drivel. I just quickly read through your "rant" and coalesced it into a brief impression. If you're looking for in depth analysis, seek help from a professional.
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Apr 29, 2016 1:28 AM GMT

    This is a forum, which in my opinion isn't the best place to spend lots of time expressing your soul searching. Forums are more suited for aphorisms. (And arguments.)


    No they aren't. icon_razz.gif


    To your concern on whether what might be or what you see as your disconnect makes impossible a relationship, see the article I posted here about a scientist who was unaware of his own personality disorder until he found out by accident that he had it too



    That's funny. I would be pretty annoyed if my wife and child were so readily accepting of such a thing. I imagine said researcher was a bit of an ass.


    So you might view their passion as a fault or rationalize your own alienation as a benefit


    It's really more just about the practical application of social cues and the inherent burden of having a secret you can't share with the people you would most want to share it with.


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    Apr 29, 2016 3:42 PM GMT
    Your thinking that someone would befriend or be kind to or even love someone with personality disorder ("I would be pretty annoyed if my wife and child were so readily accepting of such a thing", you said) seems a bit self-flagellating by the description of yourself in your OP which might indicate that therapy could help you to become more comfortable with yourself in your situation.

    I might not put up with a stranger's personality disorder but were, say, a cousin of mine to have it, I might be very forgiving and still love that person or were, say, I to adopt a child who I might later discover to have severe personality disorder, I might sacrifice quite a bit of how my life might otherwise have been lived to provide that child with tools and time to learn to live their life as best can be. Or what if I wind up befriending someone at work who might be personality disordered but also might have some very lovely qualities which might compensate for what without might be intolerable but with might be understandable and not subject to rejection on that aspect alone.

    So then how is the "researcher (being) a bit of an ass"? By discovering late his disorder? Does that mean that someone who doesn't come out until very late in life was being that entire time an ass? The powers of denial are great and creates a whole reality people live as real. That can happen individually (personality disorders) or country-wide (housing bubbles, racism, etc.) If pathological lying is involved, then the person even fools himself which is very difficult for them to see through. Does that make them as ass? It makes them damaged.

    To your "burden of having a secret you can't share with the people you would most want to share it with" not everyone comes out as gay on first meeting either. Granted this might be more off-putting and creates more of a dilemma: that if you don't tell someone and they figure it out, they may back off or if you do tell someone, well, there are those risks. So timing would seem essential. And the onus is on you on that. Just as it is for you to compensate for that. And here the researcher in the article I cited provides you a path:

    article:
    ...he began acting really nice and being more conscientious, even though he didn't really want to.

    For example, he started doing little things like opening doors for people, and attending events like weddings and funerals, which he had never bothered to do before. His wife noticed his behavior and said she liked it, even though she knew it wasn't sincere.

    "Maybe if I just acted the part, even if I don't feel it at an emotional level ... [it] would be a good place to start, just to be a good companion and a good friend," Fallon said recently on the storytelling show the Moth. "And so, that's where I am now."
  • secondstartot...

    Posts: 1314

    Apr 29, 2016 3:53 PM GMT
    "Ive never heard of Yeats " ... I stopped after that