Advice to Fem guys from a Fem Guy

  • BloodFlame

    Posts: 1768

    May 01, 2016 2:34 AM GMT
    It seems like the little feud between Masc vs Fem seems to be something of an annoying topic with gay men but in seriousness, there really isn't a "feud", just frustration on the feminine guys part in terms of desirability. I mean sure, there are a few Masc gay men who actively hate fem gay men but they seem to be somewhat of a minority. So I decided to just share some advice after experiencing life as a feminine gay guy.

    For starters, Feminine guys, we need to just accept that roughly 95-99% of masculine gay men don't want anything to do with us in terms of dating/intimacy. It's just how it is. It doesn't matter if you're softly feminine or flamboyant, we're all viewed the same by masculine gay men so I highly suggest you all forget about them. Seriously, write off all Masculine Hay men and don't bother trying with them anymore because it's never going to change.

    Now some would tell us to just date each other but that just won't happen for a lot of us because we like the opposites attract spectrum in terms of masculine vs feminine energy so instead...

    Try looking at Bisexual & Bi-curious men. While there's a scathing amount of them who are adamant in only wanting masculine partners, there are a very small few of them who actually will be open to a feminine gay guy. But in saying that, I highly caution not getting too attached to them because at the end of the day, most, if not all of these men will choose to be with women in the long run. It's just an easier lifestyle for them, especially if they want children. So seriously, just enjoy the time you spend with them but don't get too attached because they will most always choose to be with a woman in the long run so unless you're an honest to God transwoman, the prospects of a fully, long-term relationship is pretty much non-existent for us feminine guys.

    I know it sounds pretty harsh but it's true. I just don't want to see any more feminine gay men feel horrible and end up hating themselves just because of who they are. To you Masculine gay men, just keep doing you and don't feel bad for not wanting guys like us because even we don't want to be romantically involved with other feminine guys.

    So to the few fem guys here, just follow this advice and remember to have plenty of hobbies to keep you busy and be sure to share this post so other feminine guys can read it. icon_smile.gif
  • Allen

    Posts: 341

    May 01, 2016 7:53 AM GMT
    As a masculine gay man myself, I'll make the following comments:

    I have no desire to date an effeminate guy. Just not my preference.

    I have nothing against effeminate gay men as long as they're not obnoxious bitches. Unfortunately a lot of them are. But a lot of them are just nice guys who happen to be effeminate. So what?

    Effeminate gay men don't choose to be effeminate anymore than masculine gay men choose to be masculine. We are the way we are. (However, those who are obnoxious and bitchy choose to be obnoxious and bitchy.)

    Most masculine gay men who are genuinely masculine (i.e., not an act) rarely have a problem interacting with effeminate men. It's the gay men who aren't really as masculine as they want everyone to think they are who get bent out of shape over effeminate men. They're pretending to be something they're really not and are projecting onto effeminate men what they don't like about themselves.
  • BloodFlame

    Posts: 1768

    May 01, 2016 9:50 AM GMT
    Allen saidAs a masculine gay man myself, I'll make the following comments:

    I have no desire to date an effeminate guy. Just not my preference.

    I have nothing against effeminate gay men as long as they're not obnoxious bitches. Unfortunately a lot of them are. But a lot of them are just nice guys who happen to be effeminate. So what?

    Effeminate gay men don't choose to be effeminate anymore than masculine gay men choose to be masculine. We are the way we are. (However, those who are obnoxious and bitchy choose to be obnoxious and bitchy.)

    Most masculine gay men who are genuinely masculine (i.e., not an act) rarely have a problem interacting with effeminate men. It's the gay men who aren't really as masculine as they want everyone to think they are who get bent out of shape over effeminate men. They're pretending to be something they're really not and are projecting onto effeminate men what they don't like about themselves.


    Like I said in the post, I'm in no way shaming masculine men who aren't intimately attracted to feminine gay guys. All I'm trying to do is just give some hope to other feminine guys and a blunt honesty that's been sugarcoated for far too long. It's pretty obvious that roughly 99% of Masculine gay men don't want anything romantic with a feminine guy and the sooner feminine gay guys get that, the better it'll be. At least to prevent the self-hatred a lot face for not being able to live up to the masculine gay ideal in terms of relationship.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 01, 2016 2:56 PM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    Good to see you working towards coming to terms with some things but some other things you still exhibit a sense of hopelessness about which I'm not sure is justified (any more than anyone might fear never finding Mr. Right), particularly where you judge your life admittedly harsh, because the thing about life is that you never know what--or who--tomorrow will bring. And it doesn't matter what the fuck you are doing, or what you think you planned or even how you lived your life.

    Often life takes a turn to take on a life of its own and--hold on--we are along for the ride.

    So while you're protecting your emotions by not expecting commitment, don't close yourself off because you just never fucking know.

    Also per my past response to another one of your threads, you need to include also the Pansexuals (aka omnisexuals) about whom I'd imagine more closeted than other orientations but I'd suspect more prevalent than most imagine. In that I've told you about masculine men who I've known and know who are attracted to femininity in all its expression. In fact, one friend recently sent me pictures of himself posing at an LGBT awards dinner with some guys in drag, himself living as a str8 man--currently trying to figure out how to separate from his wife with whom he's lived heterosexually, closeted all these decades, only discovering late in life his attraction to effeminate men.

    And in this post I think I see another issue you might consider, that you speak for all effeminate men just because you are effeminate yourself, particularly with regard to attraction. This line about "we like the opposites attract spectrum in terms of masculine vs feminine energy": did you get that from a survey? Or is that you projecting that onto others? I ask because if masculine guys might like masculine, why don't feminine guys like feminine guys even if some like masculine guys? Because apparently it isn't always the case that opposite attracts.

    Sexual orientation seems not just about male/female body parts but also about masculinity/femininity behavior and mannerism. Within that there are lots of mixes and matches. So while you work towards being practical, also have a little faith.
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    May 01, 2016 4:40 PM GMT
    Masc vs Fem
    depends on your definition but those masculine men all work 8-5 Monday through Friday on the same team as everyone else. Not likely any of them come home and pour a new garage floor or install a new ECU in the family grocery getter. More likely they go to the gym than watch tv afterwards.

    Masc is a lie men grew up with and they assert this to be nothing but the truth.


    -have the confidence that you are good at what you do.
    -You dont need your partner created in your image
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    May 01, 2016 5:02 PM GMT
    Allen saidAs a masculine gay man myself, I'll make the following comments:

    I have no desire to date an effeminate guy. Just not my preference.

    I have nothing against effeminate gay men as long as they're not obnoxious bitches. Unfortunately a lot of them are. But a lot of them are just nice guys who happen to be effeminate. So what?

    Effeminate gay men don't choose to be effeminate anymore than masculine gay men choose to be masculine. We are the way we are. (However, those who are obnoxious and bitchy choose to be obnoxious and bitchy.)

    Most masculine gay men who are genuinely masculine (i.e., not an act) rarely have a problem interacting with effeminate men. It's the gay men who aren't really as masculine as they want everyone to think they are who get bent out of shape over effeminate men. They're pretending to be something they're really not and are projecting onto effeminate men what they don't like about themselves.



    +1
    I agree with everything you said. And yes, the bitchy fem guys give a bad reputation to fem guys in general, I guess because there seems to be so many of them. Just like there are many masculine guys who put on an equally disturbing false image....ie, the black leather costumes, harnesses and chains, the huge cigar stuffed in their mouths and the exaggerated deep voice they use when trying to impress someone. They're both equally disgusting. Fortunately, the OP is not one of those bitchy types. He seems very kind and genuine and I have no doubt he will meet the right man in time. He's just impatient, which is understandable.
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    May 01, 2016 6:11 PM GMT
    95 to 99% is a bit harsh of a statistic. where are you getting that from? personal experience or a legit study?
    I would never recommend any gay guy to date a bi guy "seriously".
    I am not fem myself...but I must admit that growing up I had to "toughen" up for survival purposes. I wonder if not wanting to date a feminine guy rooted in internalized homophobia...icon_neutral.gif
  • BloodFlame

    Posts: 1768

    May 01, 2016 10:37 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    Snip


    I don't necessarily think of it as hoeplessness, just some stark honesty and I feel that if other feminine guys accepted this fact, the "feud" between Masc vs fem wouldn't even be a thing. I hope that makes some sense.

    pellaz saidMasc vs Fem
    depends on your definition but those masculine men all work 8-5 Monday through Friday on the same team as everyone else. Not likely any of them come home and pour a new garage floor or install a new ECU in the family grocery getter. More likely they go to the gym than watch tv afterwards.

    Masc is a lie men grew up with and they assert this to be nothing but the truth.


    -have the confidence that you are good at what you do.
    -You dont need your partner created in your image


    I don't know if "Masc" is a lie because it's just guys doing guy things and enjoying it compared to feminine guys who prefer doing other things that usually don't fall in the masculine dominated areas.

    pellaz saidMasc vs Fem
    depends on your definition but those masculine men all work 8-5 Monday through Friday on the same team as everyone else. Not likely any of them come home and pour a new garage floor or install a new ECU in the family grocery getter. More likely they go to the gym than watch tv afterwards.

    Masc is a lie men grew up with and they assert this to be nothing but the truth.


    -have the confidence that you are good at what you do.
    -You dont need your partner created in your image


    I don't know if "Masc" is a lie because it's just guys doing guy things and enjoying it compared to feminine guys who prefer doing other things that usually don't fall in the masculine dominated areas.
  • BloodFlame

    Posts: 1768

    May 01, 2016 10:40 PM GMT
    FollowingRivers said95 to 99% is a bit harsh of a statistic. where are you getting that from? personal experience or a legit study?
    I would never recommend any gay guy to date a bi guy "seriously".
    I am not fem myself...but I must admit that growing up I had to "toughen" up for survival purposes. I wonder if not wanting to date a feminine guy rooted in internalized homophobia...icon_neutral.gif


    It's a harsh statistic but it's true. I mean, you don't need to get it from a study. Let me ask you something. Have you ever once heard of a Masculine GAY man actually say something like "Oh, I love feminine guys, the more feminine, the better!" or anything like that? I'm willing to bet no. A

    I can't speak of the internalized homophobia things. I just feel that a lot of guys simply find feminine men disgusting because they don't fit what is expected to be manly unless you're a woman because masculine women are seen as a positive thing whereas the feminine guy is often mocked and shunned in both worlds (Hetero & Homo) no matter where you go.
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    May 01, 2016 10:59 PM GMT
    This. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/asapthought-gay-men-masculinity_us_57237fd6e4b0b49df6ab1795?

    [drops the mic]

    #slay #fempower #powerbottom
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 01, 2016 11:02 PM GMT
    BloodFlame said
    FollowingRivers said95 to 99% is a bit harsh of a statistic. where are you getting that from? personal experience or a legit study?
    I would never recommend any gay guy to date a bi guy "seriously".
    I am not fem myself...but I must admit that growing up I had to "toughen" up for survival purposes. I wonder if not wanting to date a feminine guy rooted in internalized homophobia...icon_neutral.gif


    It's a harsh statistic but it's true. I mean, you don't need to get it from a study. Let me ask you something. Have you ever once heard of a Masculine GAY man actually say something like "Oh, I love feminine guys, the more feminine, the better!" or anything like that? I'm willing to bet no.



    You would lose that bet. Actually, a good friend of mine says that all the time. And he is SMOKING hot and very masculine. Picture a 28 year old Christopher Meloni, except he has a ripped body. This is what makes me think you need to move to a larger city. Once you leave that small town you'll realize there are more guys out there willing to date you.
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    May 01, 2016 11:40 PM GMT
    It's because feminine guys want to have a masculine man who worked hard towards owning his masculinity, where as feminine men are stuck in a loop where they reject themselves because strong male figures didn't give them attention growing up.

    The only men who are attracted to fem guys, are guys who are mostly heterosexual and like females. Men who are confident always seem more masculine because your sex is male, and your authentic expression will always reflect your biology.

    I don't want to sound prickish, but feminine men have masculinity complexes and they reject masculinity way more than most men, which is why they act feminine and are obsessed with strong men. Stop trying to date a conventional man, just start being more of one.
  • LostSailor

    Posts: 163

    May 02, 2016 12:08 AM GMT
    This thread has my name all over it

    While you MIGHT be somewhat correct to think that most masculine guys aren't into the fem type, you should ALSO know that's not a universal statement.
    OK---I'll take a trashing here for this next statement cause that's how this site is...but for all the other fem guys out there reading this--It'll be worth it to give them hope.

    I'm married [for now]---and 100% bisexual--very VERY masculine, with a super masculine type of job to go along with it---6'4 {tall]...260 lbs of mostly muscle---I compete in semi pro weightlifting/powerlifting events around the country. About as 'masculine' [whatever THAT means] as a guy could get.
    So here I am...this tall, anabolic filled 'jock' type that lots of other 'jocks' want. It's flattering to be desired by other guys--of course. However the feeling ISN'T mutual.
    I only ..O N L Y want feminine guys. I'm not into masculine guys one bit {as some of my previous post have shown}
    Blood--wherever this life takes you, you have to stay true to yourself. You're all you really have until you find somebody you love and they TOO will 'have' you.
    I cant be the only guy out there that prefers guys like you.
    Don't settle---but don't over think it.
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    May 02, 2016 12:36 AM GMT
    My advice to guys who put themselves in these rigid "masc" and "fem" categories is to consider the following:

    1) If you are always looking at your dating options as exclusively masculine and exclusively feminine, you likely have a very simplistic approach to understanding people.

    2) Guys who are self-assured and comfortable with themselves don't need to make a statement about how they are straight-acting/masc/bro/douchebag types. For that reason, I think the idea that someone is 100% straight acting is a total myth.

    3) Masculinity and femininity are not always polarizing traits. In fact, the most interesting guys that I have met are the ones who embrace both sides and know how and when to use one over the other.

    4) Further to that point, masculinity is not objectively better than femininity, and femininity is not objectively better than masculinity, regardless of what your gender is.

    5) Fem guys have it harder - there's no argument there. But there are masc guys who will go for feminine men. If you are fem and are looking to find a masc guy, you need to make an effort to try and understand masculinity. If you don't, then you are going to have a hard time finding common ground with someone who is of the same sex as you.

  • LostSailor

    Posts: 163

    May 02, 2016 12:47 AM GMT
    go_dreaming said

    4) Further to that point, masculinity is not objectively better than femininity, and femininity is not objectively better than masculinity, regardless of what your gender is.

    Well put.
  • rdberg1957

    Posts: 662

    May 02, 2016 4:17 AM GMT
    I always considered myself masculine externally, but not internally. I see myself as more androgynous internally, with a mixture of stereotypically feminine and masculine interests. I have always been attracted to feminine guys, always. My first crush was on John in high school. He loved all things French, loved to roller skate. We were in debate, theater and tennis together. His mannerisms were more feminine as was his voice. And I was totally attracted to him. John and I met after high school and he was gorgeous. We had a few encounters, but he didn't want to date me.

    I have almost always been rejected by more feminine men. It has seemed to me that gay men who are more feminine men say they want masculine men, but have no idea what to do if a masculine guy shows interest in them. I am handsome, intelligent, kind, articulate, somewhat athletic and generally decent. I have been attracted to white, latino, asian, african-american, native american men and nary a bite when I show interest (ranging from flirting to asking someone out).

    What I'm attracted to in more feminine men is sweetness. So I am not attracted to what Allen termed obnoxious bitches. However, it hasn't done me a lot of good. There is something going on here in which many gay men have constructed an internal world which prohibits them from having their desires. I think this is true of many types of men, including myself. I am not sure what to do about it since it seems like pretty deeply embedded software. I am 58.
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    May 02, 2016 4:42 AM GMT
    I will say to anyone (fem or masc) that if you work on making yourself interesting, confident, and communicative, you will drastically increase the pool of guys who are interested in you.
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    May 02, 2016 6:26 AM GMT
    i noticed a constant level of domestic strife, arguments for those masculine men i dated. A quieter household for those fem guys. Just me?
  • Allen

    Posts: 341

    May 02, 2016 7:21 AM GMT
    BloodFlame said
    Allen saidAs a masculine gay man myself, I'll make the following comments:

    I have no desire to date an effeminate guy. Just not my preference.

    I have nothing against effeminate gay men as long as they're not obnoxious bitches. Unfortunately a lot of them are. But a lot of them are just nice guys who happen to be effeminate. So what?

    Effeminate gay men don't choose to be effeminate anymore than masculine gay men choose to be masculine. We are the way we are. (However, those who are obnoxious and bitchy choose to be obnoxious and bitchy.)

    Most masculine gay men who are genuinely masculine (i.e., not an act) rarely have a problem interacting with effeminate men. It's the gay men who aren't really as masculine as they want everyone to think they are who get bent out of shape over effeminate men. They're pretending to be something they're really not and are projecting onto effeminate men what they don't like about themselves.


    Like I said in the post, I'm in no way shaming masculine men who aren't intimately attracted to feminine gay guys. All I'm trying to do is just give some hope to other feminine guys and a blunt honesty that's been sugarcoated for far too long. It's pretty obvious that roughly 99% of Masculine gay men don't want anything romantic with a feminine guy and the sooner feminine gay guys get that, the better it'll be. At least to prevent the self-hatred a lot face for not being able to live up to the masculine gay ideal in terms of relationship.


    I hope you didn't think I was suggesting you were. I understand your point and wish you nothing but the best!
  • Crisistunity

    Posts: 109

    May 02, 2016 10:53 AM GMT
    BloodFlame said[...]

    For starters, Feminine guys, we need to just accept that roughly 95-99% of masculine gay men don't want anything to do with us in terms of dating/intimacy. It's just how it is. It doesn't matter if you're softly feminine or flamboyant, we're all viewed the same by masculine gay men so I highly suggest you all forget about them. Seriously, write off all Masculine Hay men and don't bother trying with them anymore because it's never going to change.



    As a gay man, I disagree, because I have changed.

    I used to be homophobic towards feminine guys when I was younger, I would discard guys based only on things such «your voice sounds gay», «you move your hands too much», «you walk funny»...

    Then I gained self confidence and thought a lot about what being «masculine» or «feminine» meant, it's only a social construct that has nothing to do with the sex you feel you belong to, so I lost all prejudices towards gender roles.

    I gave myself the opportunity to get to know a guy whose hands moved a lot while he talked, and, so far, it's being the best relationship I've ever had in my life, we're still together and I can't be prouder of him and of my love for him.

    So my advice to any masculine or feminine gay man is: be yourself, don't let tags stop you from being happy, don't think less of yourself or others for not fitting inside a category you didn't create.
  • rdberg1957

    Posts: 662

    May 02, 2016 12:23 PM GMT
    I like your story. Change is good, especially in a loving direction.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 02, 2016 12:44 PM GMT
    I love fem guys. I find them to be much braver, more authentic, and usually more interesting than many "straight-acting" guys. I find many fem guys sexy as hell. Plus there's a large variety of fem guys in New York. I see bearded, tattooed, pierced, brawny guys and muscle guys who are totally fem...and I see twinks who are totally butch.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 02, 2016 1:59 PM GMT
    feminine men, gay or straight, were put on this earth to teach us about acceptance and love.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 02, 2016 3:28 PM GMT
    The best advice I can give, is to always be yourself, whether you're fem, masc. or somewhere in between. It is not worth it to change yourself for anyone that isn't interested in the real you. Stay beautiful on the inside and the man of your dreams will see that beauty and won't be able to resist you!

    Best of luck!
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    May 02, 2016 4:13 PM GMT
    I think what you say makes sense intellectually, but may not be true. Just a simple observation, look at couples. It has gotten to be a bit of entertainment for me to notice couples, and this can even be hetero buddies that hang out together at the beach, gym, etc. Couples do look a lot alike! It started when my guy would explode with "TWIN!" every time we got ready to go out and we were accidentally wearing the exact same thing, often even the colors. Now couples logically do echo each other, your partner gets a haircut you like so you try one similar, buys a shirt you like so you buy one, too, etc. But if you watch, it is frequently body type and similar levels of athleticism, interests, usually age. No one is just Fem, and no one is just Masc. We are all somewhere along a continuum and may be Fem in one area and Masc in another. Sometimes we match our partner in one one and complement him in another. Opposite in another. Remember, all you need to find is just that ONE guy. So stats and percentages really don't matter. Find the ONE. And be open to being surprised. He may be totally not at all the guy you thought you were looking for.