Hillary’s Big Dilemma: Go Left or Go Center?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 03, 2016 2:51 PM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    [url]http://prospect.org/article/hillary%E2%80%99s-big-dilemma[/url]
    now clickable: http://goo.gl/AvW0R5
    Even against Trump, attracting both moderate Republicans and Sanders supporters will not be easy for Clinton.

    Hillary Clinton and her advisers now face an excruciating dilemma for the November election. Go left or go center?

    Typically, a Democrat moves left to win the nomination and then moves center to capture swing voters in the general election. But this is no ordinary election.

    For starters, the Sanders campaign has been the source of energy and excitement—not just the kids, but the white working class voters whom Hillary will need to win back.

    Polls suggest that few Sanders backers will defect to Trump. That’s not the problem.

    The problem is how many will just disengage, stay home, refuse to work hard for the ticket, or even vote for the Green Party candidate, Jill Stein.

    And what it would take for Clinton to win over disaffected blue-collar voters who were once Democrats but who now are inclined to vote for a pseudo-populist Republican?

    ...If she moves left, according to this advice, the moderate Republicans and traditional swing voters stay home.

    One of the first signals she will send will be her choice of running mate. For a while the moderate of choice seemed to be Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julian Castro. But Clinton doesn’t really need a Hispanic running mate. Trump will take care of Hispanic turnout for the Democrat. (lol) ...

    ...If she goes the other way, and names Sanders himself, or a progressive like Al Franken or Elizabeth Warren, that could mobilize some Sanders voters—but not win the hearts of those elusive moderate Republicans (of course I think those are three great choices)...

    ...She might declare the platform process open to convention delegates and let them define the party program. That could well give Sanders supporters the sense that they succeeded on pushing the Democrats to the left...

    ...Face it: There is no good way of reassuring both Sanders supporters and Republican moderates...

    elephant-sway-o.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 03, 2016 5:30 PM GMT
    There's no dilemma, as a pathological liar she's doing both at the same time.
  • interestingch...

    Posts: 694

    May 03, 2016 5:39 PM GMT
    Go to prison would be a good bet.

    BENGHAZI etc etc etc, the list goes on
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    May 03, 2016 6:06 PM GMT
    I think moderate republicans are a better bet for her than Sanders supporters. Most of the other Sanders supporters I know and see on Facebook wanna see Crooked/Pandering Hillary's head on a platter.
  • interestingch...

    Posts: 694

    May 03, 2016 8:31 PM GMT
    CODY4U saidI think moderate republicans are a better bet for her than Sanders supporters. Most of the other Sanders supporters I know and see on Facebook wanna see Crooked/Pandering Hillary's head on a platter.


    Tony Blair amongst others should also go to prison for the lies about weapons of mass destruction, 500,000 children died in Iraq because of their lies, well over a million people in total, does anyone think thats acceptable?
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    May 04, 2016 12:42 AM GMT
    CODY4U saidI think moderate republicans are a better bet for her than Sanders supporters. Most of the other Sanders supporters I know and see on Facebook wanna see Crooked/Pandering Hillary's head on a platter.

    Relatively speaking, yes, but with a great, big capital R.
    Nice to see Trump win big in my home state today, and knock out not only Cruz, but the Cruzist GOP senate contender along the way. A double-load of buckshot for Pernicious Mike Pence. icon_cool.gif
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    May 04, 2016 1:52 AM GMT
    I'm not saying this would be best for the nation or the world but...

    If the only criterion is what will be best for Hillary politically--- I'd think she would hang left socially and economically to mobilize the Bernie fans and hang right militarily to get the non-leftists. I think the leftists care more about economics than foreign policy and the right wing could be won over with tough military talk.

    As for my own views, I still "feel the Bern" and believe he could defeat Trump, but I don't think at this point that Bernie will secure the Democratic nomination or run as an independent. And God help us if he does run as an independent because if that happens we will be looking at a President Trump.
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    May 04, 2016 2:27 AM GMT
    I'm sure she's got it focus-grouped and calculated down to the last percentage point.

    Odd though, there were a bunch of blue collar-type Sanders voters interviewed in Indiana today who said they would go for Trump in the general election.

    Forget this left, right, center stuff. Go crazy or go home.
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    May 04, 2016 3:17 AM GMT
    Trump will kick sum butt...that's why she's worried. Maybe she will be a conservative. After all, Trump's the new Liberal!
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    May 04, 2016 4:32 AM GMT
    mindgarden saidI'm sure she's got it focus-grouped and calculated down to the last percentage point.

    Odd though, there were a bunch of blue collar-type Sanders voters interviewed in Indiana today who said they would go for Trump in the general election.

    Forget this left, right, center stuff. Go crazy or go home.


    Bernie tonight on CNN when asked if he was worried about Trump targeting the BernieOrBust crazies suggested that perhaps anyone who would vote Trump was not really Bernie's base of support.
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    May 04, 2016 4:44 AM GMT
    duluthrunner said...As for my own views, I still "feel the Bern" and believe he could defeat Trump, but I don't think at this point that Bernie will secure the Democratic nomination or run as an independent. And God help us if he does run as an independent because if that happens we will be looking at a President Trump.


    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/277676-jane-sanders-bernie-will-not-be-running-as-an-independent
    Jane Sanders dismisses Trump's advice: Bernie won't run 'as an independent'

    Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders won't run as an independent, his wife Jane Sanders said Tuesday, dismissing advice from Republican front-runner Donald Trump.

    "I think we've been very clear right from the beginning that we will not play the role of spoiler," Jane Sanders said on CNN's "Wolf." "Bernie will not be running as an independent."
  • NerdLifter

    Posts: 1509

    May 04, 2016 5:06 AM GMT
    If she doesn't go left, much of the progressive base will choose not to show up to the polls come November. That's just a reality; it's amazing how little these political consultants understand the progressive base. The conventional wisdom that you have to "pivot to the center" is garbage 1990s politics. We don't live in that world anymore. For politicians on both the left and the right, "pivoting to the center" comes off as one thing: a liar. She has to earn progressive's vote. Instead she just takes them for granted and basically has said: who else are you going to vote for? That kind of reasoning is the quintessential way to discourage someone from voting for you.

    And god for her VP, if she picks someone like Julian Castro or Cory Booker, both of which are complete tools. I'll actively vote against her in the general, and I can tell you of 5 people I know who are actively voting Green party in protest unless she does something to earn their vote, which she has so far not done. And yes, contrary to how we've been conditioned by the parties, politicians have to earn your vote.
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    May 04, 2016 6:11 AM GMT
    For politicians on both the left and the right, "pivoting to the center" comes off as one thing: a liar


    You forget how Romney's poll numbers jumped after his first debate with Obama. He pivoted to the centre in a way which was almost unimaginable and had Obama actually nearly speechless about how cynical and obvious it was....and that was from a guy with a reputation as already being fake. It worked for him he just couldn't keep it up.

    Most people pay very little attention and form all their opinions based on what the media reports other people's opinions are.

    and I can tell you of 5 people I know who are actively voting Green party in protest unless she does something to earn their vote, which she has so far not done


    I can tell you 5 people that are going to help elect a republican party who will put Sarah Palin on the supreme court so that 30 years from now they can ban science and declare anti-cancer vaccines can be sold for 100,000 dollars and how it's legal to make it illegal to import from other countries cause their quality can't be verified.

    If you are going to vote for a party that denies globabl warming is a problem and wants to allow companies to dump whatever they want wherever they want as some sort of mass tantrum, that's wonderful. It worked so great with everyone voting for Nader and now we have the Iraq war and what is left of it and Citizens United and all the damage that will do.


    I hope Bernie wins, he won't but the solution isn't putting in someone who is going to set back his agenda and seek to cement that it becomes impossible to even get to where things are now.


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    May 04, 2016 6:58 AM GMT
    As far as I am concerned she can go to Hell.
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    May 04, 2016 12:08 PM GMT
    With Trump as the Republican presidential nominee, Clinton has to remain center-left. Extreme positions (extreme right or extreme left) are never good.
  • NerdLifter

    Posts: 1509

    May 04, 2016 2:15 PM GMT
    badbug saidFor politicians on both the left and the right, "pivoting to the center" comes off as one thing: a liar


    You forget how Romney's poll numbers jumped after his first debate with Obama. He pivoted to the centre in a way which was almost unimaginable and had Obama actually nearly speechless about how cynical and obvious it was....and that was from a guy with a reputation as already being fake. It worked for him he just couldn't keep it up.

    Most people pay very little attention and form all their opinions based on what the media reports other people's opinions are.

    and I can tell you of 5 people I know who are actively voting Green party in protest unless she does something to earn their vote, which she has so far not done


    I can tell you 5 people that are going to help elect a republican party who will put Sarah Palin on the supreme court so that 30 years from now they can ban science and declare anti-cancer vaccines can be sold for 100,000 dollars and how it's legal to make it illegal to import from other countries cause their quality can't be verified.

    If you are going to vote for a party that denies globabl warming is a problem and wants to allow companies to dump whatever they want wherever they want as some sort of mass tantrum, that's wonderful. It worked so great with everyone voting for Nader and now we have the Iraq war and what is left of it and Citizens United and all the damage that will do.


    I hope Bernie wins, he won't but the solution isn't putting in someone who is going to set back his agenda and seek to cement that it becomes impossible to even get to where things are now.



    Then have Hillary move further to the left. Again, she has to earn people's vote. She has to encourage left-wing voters to want to show up to vote for her. When asked what would she do to win over those voters, she has actually scoffed at the notion on live TV. And leftists are supposed to feel energized to vote for her? She's such a terrible candidate from a purely political perspective.

    Do you want to know why Bernie Sanders wins independents overwhelmingly over her? It's because he is a *true* centrist and unabashedly so, and when I say centrist, I don't mean in terms of mass media American politics, I mean in terms of Eisenhower era politics and in terms of every-other-modern-nation politics. The Overton window has shifted so far right in this country that people arguing for Hillary and on the right seem to have lost sight of what is truly "far left" and by extension what is truly "center".

    So yeah, in a way, she has to move to the center, but that center is the true center, so that means she has to move left. Romney moving to the center was him moving to the center from a position so far right, so of course it pushed up his numbers. Hillary is already center-right, being dragged to the left by Bernie. The smart political choice would be for her to move left, not further right.
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    May 04, 2016 4:08 PM GMT
    NerdLifter said
    badbug saidFor politicians on both the left and the right, "pivoting to the center" comes off as one thing: a liar


    You forget how Romney's poll numbers jumped after his first debate with Obama. He pivoted to the centre in a way which was almost unimaginable and had Obama actually nearly speechless about how cynical and obvious it was....and that was from a guy with a reputation as already being fake. It worked for him he just couldn't keep it up.

    Most people pay very little attention and form all their opinions based on what the media reports other people's opinions are.

    and I can tell you of 5 people I know who are actively voting Green party in protest unless she does something to earn their vote, which she has so far not done


    I can tell you 5 people that are going to help elect a republican party who will put Sarah Palin on the supreme court so that 30 years from now they can ban science and declare anti-cancer vaccines can be sold for 100,000 dollars and how it's legal to make it illegal to import from other countries cause their quality can't be verified.

    If you are going to vote for a party that denies globabl warming is a problem and wants to allow companies to dump whatever they want wherever they want as some sort of mass tantrum, that's wonderful. It worked so great with everyone voting for Nader and now we have the Iraq war and what is left of it and Citizens United and all the damage that will do.


    I hope Bernie wins, he won't but the solution isn't putting in someone who is going to set back his agenda and seek to cement that it becomes impossible to even get to where things are now.



    Then have Hillary move further to the left. Again, she has to earn people's vote. She has to encourage left-wing voters to want to show up to vote for her. When asked what would she do to win over those voters, she has actually scoffed at the notion on live TV. And leftists are supposed to feel energized to vote for her? She's such a terrible candidate from a purely political perspective.

    Do you want to know why Bernie Sanders wins independents overwhelmingly over her? It's because he is a *true* centrist and unabashedly so, and when I say centrist, I don't mean in terms of mass media American politics, I mean in terms of Eisenhower era politics and in terms of every-other-modern-nation politics. The Overton window has shifted so far right in this country that people arguing for Hillary and on the right seem to have lost sight of what is truly "far left" and by extension what is truly "center".

    So yeah, in a way, she has to move to the center, but that center is the true center, so that means she has to move left. Romney moving to the center was him moving to the center from a position so far right, so of course it pushed up his numbers. Hillary is already center-right, being dragged to the left by Bernie. The smart political choice would be for her to move left, not further right.


    Well stated, NerdLifter. +1
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    May 04, 2016 5:00 PM GMT
    mindgarden saidI'm sure she's got it focus-grouped and calculated down to the last percentage point.

    Odd though, there were a bunch of blue collar-type Sanders voters interviewed in Indiana today who said they would go for Trump in the general election.

    Forget this left, right, center stuff. Go crazy or go home.



    Yep. I'm not voting for Trump but I think that if Trump stopped with the bigoted/racist/hateful talk he would have a very good shot at winning the race. A betting site is currently estimating that Hillary has an over 70% chance of winning right now. But a lot of people are sick of the dirty money in politics. They don't think that things can change until we get it out and Sanders and Trump are the only two people not taking that money. Hillary has grabbed it any place she could get it.

    I do know a few Sanders supporters that plan on voting for Trump if Sanders does not win but not a lot of them. He could swing more over if he would change what has been saying. Sanders supporters are not going to support bigotry.
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    May 04, 2016 5:13 PM GMT
    It's not really a big dilemma. Most Sanders supporters will get behind Clinton. Given the alternative, it's just common sense.

    Will Sanders supporters vote for Clinton?

    Our random sampling of attendees at the rally included more than a dozen diehards who were "feeling the Bern," but only one person told us they wouldn't be willing to cast a vote for Clinton come November if Sanders weren't an option. Two others told us they weren't sure what they would do.

    "I'm not an idiot. I'm still gonna vote for Hillary Clinton," one young man said. "Lesser of two evils here. I'm not gonna say I'm one of the votes that's responsible for Donald Trump being in office."


    http://www.aol.com/article/2016/04/15/will-sanders-supporters-vote-for-clinton/21344901/
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14360

    Jun 28, 2016 6:20 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidIt's not really a big dilemma. Most Sanders supporters will get behind Clinton. Given the alternative, it's just common sense.

    Will Sanders supporters vote for Clinton?

    Our random sampling of attendees at the rally included more than a dozen diehards who were "feeling the Bern," but only one person told us they wouldn't be willing to cast a vote for Clinton come November if Sanders weren't an option. Two others told us they weren't sure what they would do.

    "I'm not an idiot. I'm still gonna vote for Hillary Clinton," one young man said. "Lesser of two evils here. I'm not gonna say I'm one of the votes that's responsible for Donald Trump being in office."


    http://www.aol.com/article/2016/04/15/will-sanders-supporters-vote-for-clinton/21344901/
    That young man is an idiot if he votes for Hillary in November. It is Trump that is the lesser of two evils and that young voter needs to get his head out of his ass by switching his support to Trump.
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    Jun 28, 2016 10:01 PM GMT
    http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/06/27/24266849/the-democratic-party-platform-moves-slightly-left-thanks-to-sandersThe Democratic Party Platform Moves Slightly Left, Thanks to Sanders

    Keep your eye on the ball, progressives.

    Late last week, members of the Democratic National Committee adopted some important lefty positions after a marathon debate between the Sanders and Clinton appointees to its platform drafting board...

    $15 minimum wage
    Abolish the death penalty
    Regulating banks


    http://www.nationalmemo.com/how-far-left-will-the-democratic-party-move-draft-platform-tells-us/How Far Left Will The Democratic Party Move? Draft Platform Tells Us

    The Democratic Platform Drafting Committee on Saturday released a draft of policy positions that reflect a slight move to the left pushed by presidential candidate Bernie Sanders.