Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore Suspended Friday For Gay Marriage Opposition, Faces Removal A Second Time For Judicial Misconduct

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    May 07, 2016 1:53 PM GMT
    With apologies to our RJ member metta, whose link I poached. But it was buried at the end of a long thread, and I thought this news deserved a thread of its own.

    Alabama Chief justice Roy Moore has been suspended and faces possible removal from office after a state commission Friday night charged him with six counts of ethics violations surrounding his actions against same-sex marriage. Moore in January ordered all probate judges in Alabama to not issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, despite the Supreme Court having ruled same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marriage.

    http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/breaking_alabama_chief_justice_roy_moore_suspended_over_actions_against_same_sex_marriage

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-chief-justice-roy-moore-faces-ouster-after-gay-marriage-n569771
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    May 07, 2016 2:44 PM GMT
    What is wrong with the citizens of Alabama who repeatedly vote this religious zealot homophobe into a position fo influence and authority?

    Does this crazy old coot accurately reflect the thoughts and beliefs of a majority of Alabamians?






    icon_rolleyes.gif
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14342

    May 07, 2016 3:02 PM GMT
    But all the narrow minded bible thumping screwballs will try to re elect him as state Supreme Court justice if he runs for that post again. If he decides to run for Alabama Governor, he could be a possible shoo in. With the exceptions of Auburn, Birmingham, and Tuscaloosa, most of Alabama is very religious and very conservative.
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    May 07, 2016 3:41 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidBut all the narrow minded bible thumping screwballs will try to re elect him as state Supreme Court justice if he runs for that post again. If he decides to run for Alabama Governor, he could be a possible shoo in. With the exceptions of Auburn, Birmingham, and Tuscaloosa, most of Alabama is very religious and very conservative.

    True. Montgomery isn't too bad, either, nor Mobile on the Gulf. But not enough sane people in those places to overcome the fanatical Christian rednecks throughout the rest of the State. I lived there for 2 years.
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    May 07, 2016 3:44 PM GMT
    rnch said
    What is wrong with the citizens of Alabama who repeatedly vote this religious zealot homophobe into a position of influence and authority?

    Does this crazy old coot accurately reflect the thoughts and beliefs of a majority of Alabamians?

    Evidently among the voters he does. He's been elected Chief Justice twice. And has a good shot at becoming Governor.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    May 07, 2016 5:26 PM GMT
    Roy can't be unethical! He's just doing what God wants. After all, he has breakfast with God on Tuesdays. That's why Alabama loves him.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14342

    May 07, 2016 6:14 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    roadbikeRob saidBut all the narrow minded bible thumping screwballs will try to re elect him as state Supreme Court justice if he runs for that post again. If he decides to run for Alabama Governor, he could be a possible shoo in. With the exceptions of Auburn, Birmingham, and Tuscaloosa, most of Alabama is very religious and very conservative.

    True. Montgomery isn't too bad, either, nor Mobile on the Gulf. But not enough sane people in those places to overcome the fanatical Christian rednecks throughout the rest of the State. I lived there for 2 years.
    I have heard that Huntsville isn't too bad neither. Well if Huntsville, Mobile, Montgomery in addition to the three cities I mentioned are not backward and ultra conservative and the six of them combined have a large percentage of the population, than what is the problem with getting saner more open minded politicians elected in Alabamaicon_question.gifOutside these six cities it is mostly small towns and rural areas which would be a minority of the state's population.
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    May 07, 2016 6:26 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    Art_Deco said
    roadbikeRob saidBut all the narrow minded bible thumping screwballs will try to re elect him as state Supreme Court justice if he runs for that post again. If he decides to run for Alabama Governor, he could be a possible shoo in. With the exceptions of Auburn, Birmingham, and Tuscaloosa, most of Alabama is very religious and very conservative.

    True. Montgomery isn't too bad, either, nor Mobile on the Gulf. But not enough sane people in those places to overcome the fanatical Christian rednecks throughout the rest of the State. I lived there for 2 years.
    I have heard that Huntsville isn't too bad neither. Well if Huntsville, Mobile, Montgomery in addition to the three cities I mentioned are not backward and ultra conservative and the six of them combined have a large percentage of the population, than what is the problem with getting saner more open minded politicians elected in Alabamaicon_question.gifOutside these six cities it is mostly small towns and rural areas which would be a minority of the state's population.

    Even in those urban centers there are plenty of Bible thumpers. They may not always be in the majority, but it's close. So that when the overwhelmingly Republican redneck rural areas are added to the mix statewide the overall balance tips to the Bible thumpers.

  • May 07, 2016 7:45 PM GMT
    rnch saidWhat is wrong with the citizens of Alabama who repeatedly vote this religious zealot homophobe into a position fo influence and authority?

    Does this crazy old coot accurately reflect the thoughts and beliefs of a majority of Alabamians?


    icon_rolleyes.gif



    "Stupid is as stupid does"
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    May 08, 2016 1:06 AM GMT
    well Justice Roy Moore is suspended. Likely the end of his judicial career and at the age of 70 he had a good run.
  • OutdoorAdvent...

    Posts: 361

    May 08, 2016 1:07 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    rnch said
    What is wrong with the citizens of Alabama who repeatedly vote this religious zealot homophobe into a position of influence and authority?

    Does this crazy old coot accurately reflect the thoughts and beliefs of a majority of Alabamians?

    Evidently among the voters he does. He's been elected Chief Justice twice. And has a good shot at becoming Governor.


    Is one elected Chief Justice?
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    May 08, 2016 1:33 AM GMT
    OutdoorAdventurist said
    Art_Deco said
    rnch said
    What is wrong with the citizens of Alabama who repeatedly vote this religious zealot homophobe into a position of influence and authority?

    Does this crazy old coot accurately reflect the thoughts and beliefs of a majority of Alabamians?

    Evidently among the voters he does. He's been elected Chief Justice twice. And has a good shot at becoming Governor.

    Is one elected Chief Justice?

    Yes, it varies by State. In Alabama it's an elected position. Versus for the US Supreme Court. Where the Chief Justice, as well as the Associate Justices, are nominated by the President. And then must go through an approval process by the US Senate to be granted confirmation.
  • OutdoorAdvent...

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    May 08, 2016 6:04 AM GMT
    ...except when Republicans control congress, then nothing is done when a (Democratic) President nominates a Justice.
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    May 08, 2016 11:40 AM GMT
    OutdoorAdventurist said
    ...except when Republicans control congress, then nothing is done when a (Democratic) President nominates a Justice.

    Yeah, like the new Constitutional provision that Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell recently created. A sitting final-year President loses his Constitutional authority to nominate a Justice to the Supreme Court and have him/her considered by the Senate.

    The confirmation process has to wait an entire year, and the Court limp through its current session and into the next with a vacancy that whole time, until the "people can decide". So who exactly decisively elected President Obama, currently enjoying an exceptionally high late term approval rating, if not "the people"?

    Some foreigners chose Obama, perhaps? Are the President's powers as Commander in Chief of the military also diminished as the clock runs down on his tenure? Do Generals and Admirals no longer have to obey him, until the "people decide" on his successor? Does the President become increasingly powerless and irrelevant? Well, maybe not, should McConnell's Kentucky need a Federal emergency disaster relief order from the President, and then I'm sure his powers will be fully restored.

    But McConnell's game plan was because he was betting that a Republican would take the oath of office as President in January, 2017. If it's Hillary and not Trump, and worse for him, if Democrats regain the Senate, that Supreme Court nominee will likely be far more liberal than Obama's candidate is. And get confirmed.

    So that McConnell's blocking of Constitutional provisions in order to advance Republican political goals may backfire on him, and he's screwed. Good. (Incidentally, some leading Conservatives, also foreseeing the possibility of a Hillary Clinton Presidency and a Democratic Senate, are urging that Obama's more moderate Court nominee be considered by the Senate without delay)
  • OutdoorAdvent...

    Posts: 361

    May 08, 2016 5:10 PM GMT
    Exactly. The Party of No turned Congress dysfunctional, then the Executive branch, and now the Judiciary. After decades of racisim, mysogynoy, homophobia, and zenophopia Donald Trump now leads their party. A perfect fit. Let's hope where that leads is to a Democratic President, Senate, and House and a return to government of, by, and for the people. A pity we don't have Bernie, but Hillary will do.
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    May 08, 2016 8:08 PM GMT

    Roy Moore and his personal belief systems are what is wrong with the entire justice system. "Blind Justice" is a crock of shit when you have such corrupt and one sided people within the system. You cant have a blind justice system when you have people that are suppose to interpret laws based on fact rather than interjecting their feelings or emotions. If you have ever been in front of a judge or even a court clerk, you will notice they usually have no expression, stone faced. (Im not talking about judge TV shows like Judge Judy for entertainment purpose)

    I as go thru my own personal struggles with this system, obviously "its rigged". We just have to understand the 'who' is behind this rig and of course 'why'. If justice is supposed to be blind, then why do so many find themselves 'victims' of bias within this system? Those within this system who have chosen to ignore, blind justice, and its founding principles are indeed evil beings. If a persons moral bias character is already sketchy before they enter this system as a 'law interpreter', if you do probability, the outcome of that interpretation will also be bias or sketchy.

    I can apply this same theory to my own work in problem solving in manufacturing, through what's known as Six Sigma. In my line of work, we have an old saying, "garbage in, garbage out". Meaning if you have garbage data going into the system of measurement, you probably will have garbage data coming out as results. You have to start with "good hearted people" to begin with, before becoming a judge or arbitrator within our current system, there should be a litmus test on whether or not the person actually will abide by the blind justice principles. THAT is the true nature of "morality and fairness". Roy Moore was the 'garbage' that entered the system, therefore his interpretations are 'garbage' coming out of the system. icon_idea.gif


    Lady Justice
    [url] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice
    [/url]

    Iustitia, Justitia or Lady Justice (Latin: Iustitia,[1] the Roman goddess of Justice, who is equivalent to the Greek goddess Themis) is an allegorical personification of the moral force in judicial systems.[2][3] Her attributes are a blindfold, a balance and a sword. She often appears as a pair with Prudentia, who holds a mirror and a snake

    The personification of justice balancing the scales dates back to the Goddess Maat, and later Isis, of ancient Egypt. The Hellenic deities Themis and Dike were later goddesses of justice. Themis was the embodiment of divine order, law, and custom, in her aspect as the personification of the divine rightness of law. However, a more direct connection is to Themis' daughter Dike, who was portrayed carrying scales.

    "If some god had been holding level the balance of goddess which is Dike" is a surviving fragment of Bacchylides' poetry. Ancient Rome adopted the image of a female goddess of justice, which it called Iustitia.[1] Since Roman times, Iustitia has frequently been depicted carrying scales and a sword, and wearing a blindfold. Her modern iconography frequently adorns courthouses and courtrooms, and conflates the attributes of several goddesses who embodied Right Rule for Greeks and Romans, blending Roman blindfolded Fortuna (fate) with Hellenistic Greek Tyche (luck), and sword-carrying Nemesis (retribution).

    Lady Justice is most often depicted with a set of scales typically suspended from her left hand, upon which she measures the strengths of a case's support and opposition.[citation needed] She is also often seen carrying a double-edged sword in her right hand, symbolizing the power of Reason and Justice, which may be wielded either for or against any party

    Since the 15th century, Lady Justice has often been depicted wearing a blindfold. The blindfold represents objectivity, in that justice is or should be meted out objectively, without fear or favour, regardless of money, wealth, fame, power, or identity; blind justice and impartiality. The earliest Roman coins depicted Justitia with the sword in one hand and the scale in the other, but with her eyes uncovered.[4] Justitia was only commonly represented as "blind" since about the end of the 15th century. The first known representation of blind Justice is Hans Gieng's 1543 statue on the Gerechtigkeitsbrunnen (Fountain of Justice) in Berne


    HK_Central_Statue_Square_Legislative_Cou
  • OutdoorAdvent...

    Posts: 361

    May 08, 2016 8:39 PM GMT
    The difficulty with the above is that it is humans, not gods, who administer our system of justice. Complicating that is that so many defendants, plaintifs, and witnesses, when appearing before judges and juries, and enabled by their lawyers, misrepresent what they know to be the truth. Thus the difficulty judges and juries face is not to simply balance the arguments of the opposing sides, but to determine what the misrepresentations are.

    This, and the biases of human beings that are so difficult to put aside, is often why, I believe, justice is not served, but rather injustice is compunded by our judicial system.

    As the plaintiff in a case that was decided in favor of the defendant, a lawyer once explained to me that the difficulty I was having in understanding the ruling was that I was confusing justice with the law. At that point, the ducks lined up for me.
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    May 08, 2016 9:05 PM GMT
    OutdoorAdventurist said
    ...so many defendants, plaintifs, and witnesses, when appearing before judges and juries, and enabled by their lawyers, misrepresent what they know to be the truth.

    Or they have their own visions of the "truth". Many of us see things through an emotional lens, not an objective camera lens, and often a self-serving lens, as well. Hence the classic "lineup" identification is falling out of legal favor. Too many false convictions later having to be remedied.

    A famous cinematic example of this complex human phenomena is the 1950 Japanese movie "Rashomon". I recommend its viewing to you. It's actually screened in some college law courses. The term "Rashomon effect" refers to real-world situations in which multiple eye-witness testimonies of an event contain conflicting information.
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    May 08, 2016 9:07 PM GMT
    OutdoorAdventurist saidThe difficulty with the above is that it is humans, not gods, who administer our system of justice. Complicating that is that so many defendants, plaintifs, and witnesses, when appearing before judges and juries, and enabled by their lawyers, misrepresent what they know to be the truth. Thus the difficulty judges and juries face is not to simply balance the arguments of the opposing sides, but to determine what the misrepresentations are.

    This, and the biases of human beings that are so difficult to put aside, is often why, I believe, justice is so often not served by our judicial system.

    As the plaintiff in a case that was decided in favor of the defendant, a lawyer once explained to me that the difficulty I was having in understanding the ruling was that I was confusing justice with the law. All the ducks lined up for me with that simple "truth".



    Well, here is the "truth" about our current system.

    If you are accused of a crime or misdemeanor, you are automatically entitled to a defense of some kind, if you cannot afford one, one will be appointed for you. Your mailbox will be inundated with offers from law firms or attorneys to represent you. If you have been physically injured by someone or something else, you will have no problem finding someone to represent you.

    If you are a victim of a crime or have been wronged by others, there is an uphill battle in receiving the same benefit as being a criminal or someone that was physically injured. Here lies the unfairness in the system. "Crime does pay" because you will be defended no matter what. However, those of us who are not criminals, deviant sociopaths, liars, cheats, backstabbers, jealous feigns, clumsy people who get hurt or those who try to 'use the system', there is no legal representation unless those of us who have been wronged scream at the top of our lungs or go on television and "drum up support" for our wronged cause. Its sickening that "blind Justice" only works one way. I can go rob a store or flee from police and become an instant 'celebrity' within the justice system

    Sometimes I feel I would be better off being on the side of the criminal, whether white collar, blue collar or corporate. Being a law abiding citizen does not pay in this country, you get run over by the system when you are wronged, you have to move mountains to get this system to listen to you. Being a criminal and getting caught, you don't have to move mountains, you are provided for icon_confused.gif


  • OutdoorAdvent...

    Posts: 361

    May 08, 2016 11:58 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    OutdoorAdventurist said
    ...so many defendants, plaintifs, and witnesses, when appearing before judges and juries, and enabled by their lawyers, misrepresent what they know to be the truth.

    Or they have their own visions of the "truth". Many of us see things through an emotional lens, not an objective camera lens, and often a self-serving lens, as well. Hence the classic "lineup" identification is falling out of legal favor. Too many false convictions later having to be remedied.

    A famous cinematic example of this complex human phenomena is the 1950 Japanese movie "Rashomon". I recommend its viewing to you. It's actually screened in some college law courses. The term "Rashomon effect" refers to real-world situations in which multiple eye-witness testimonies of an event contain conflicting information.


    I'm happy to accomodate this post-modern view of truth...in some cases. Yet, without being, I hope, overly cynical, the world is full of people, facilitated by their lawyers, who knowingly, intentionally, and while under oath misrepresent in front of judges and juries what they themselves know to be true.
  • OutdoorAdvent...

    Posts: 361

    May 09, 2016 12:01 AM GMT
    Thankfully, this is also the case...
    "...Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism..."
    Desiderata
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    May 09, 2016 12:27 AM GMT
    OutdoorAdventurist said
    I'm happy to accomodate this post-modern view of truth...in some cases. Yet, without being, I hope, overly cynical, the world is full of people, facilitated by their lawyers, who knowingly, intentionally, and while under oath misrepresent in front of judges and juries what they themselves know to be true.

    I totally agree with you. Now watch "Rashomon" if you haven't already. Not easy going, you gotta get the English subtitles version. And it has a different kind of staging & acting, from early post-war Japan.

    But Akira Kurosawa is my favorite Japanese director. I have a collection of his work, often featuring the actor Toshiro Mifune, another one of my favorites.
  • OutdoorAdvent...

    Posts: 361

    May 09, 2016 1:55 AM GMT
    Will do. Thanks.
  • Hotgymguy22

    Posts: 98

    May 09, 2016 3:28 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidBut all the narrow minded bible thumping screwballs will try to re elect him as state Supreme Court justice if he runs for that post again. If he decides to run for Alabama Governor, he could be a possible shoo in. With the exceptions of Auburn, Birmingham, and Tuscaloosa, most of Alabama is very religious and very conservative.


    Roy Moore tried the governor thing and it didn't work; he didn't win the republican primary. Auburn is NOT progressive at all. They shouldn't be on your list. It might be the home of Auburn University, but research it a bit and you'll reach a different conclusion. Mobile is probably the most progressive city in the state.