failing companies

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 09, 2009 11:47 PM GMT
    Now i know this is information yall can get on yahoo, but this popped up this morning when I was getting ready.... Now we all know the United States is at this point in time royally fucked and all companies are hurting. To be honest, I considered most of these companies shutting down, the U.S. trimming the fat, no big deal. Example: Mervyns, Circuit City, BFD right???! But this morning.... this morning I see that Loehmann's clothing retailer, my personal go to for high end fashion at low prices, and Landry's Restaurants which operates Rainforest Cafe, one of my favorite chain restaruants is close to going under!!!! WTF!!!! it's one thing when companies I dont give a shit about disappear, but Loehmans? WHY GODicon_exclaim.gifWHYicon_exclaim.gificon_question.gif
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    Feb 10, 2009 12:41 AM GMT
    NiCkWoLf saidWHY GODicon_exclaim.gifWHYicon_exclaim.gificon_question.gif

    Because these companies threw in their lot with the Republicans. Let them perish with the Republicans.

    The myth was that the Republicans help business, and the Democrats hurt it. But the truth is that the Repubs gave carte blanche to business, if you call that help, and unregulated business ran wild and destroyed itself. Just like it did in the 1920s.

    Let the corrupt American economy of the Republicans collapse. What will arise will destroy the Republican elitism that hates the ordinary workers, hates unions, hates fair wages, hates the people. And certainly hates gays.
  • UncleverName

    Posts: 741

    Feb 10, 2009 2:21 AM GMT
    Man, Red: that was way too serious a response to the OP (and just a tad oversimplifying)
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    Feb 10, 2009 2:33 AM GMT
    The current crisis was caused by Democrats first, and Republicans later. they are all culpable. and it aint over yet.

    oh and Nick, these companies are going down not because they threw their lot in with the republicans, but because the whole system is going down.

    Red is correct in pointing to the 1920s, but simplifying the reasons behind it.
    the Depression was not caused by unregulated and wild business practices, but it was caused by government sanctioning and facilitating of such practices. The Federal Reserve in the 20s inflated the economy by providing the liquidity and created the "boom" of the 20s, encouraging the ravenous spending and overproduction... it was an inflated boom, totally illusory, hence, why it collapsed.

    the current crisis was not caused by "unregulated free market fundamentalism" as we are most often told, but by Government-sanctioned market fundamentalism. in the 90s, when the dot.com bubble burst, the Federal Reserve decided to create the housing bubble to stave off and delay the inevitable crisis. then government agencies like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (the housing lending/loan agencies, etc) encouraged the private banks to make bad loans to high risk individuals, as the Fed pumped the money into the economy, inflating and creating the illusory boom in housing.

    bubbles burst. and the housing bubble burst. but it aint over, there is another bubble to burst... the debt bubble. the US is $45 trillion in debt (cumulatively), which is not the result of Bush, but successive administrations for decades, Bush just increased the debt greater than any other president before him (so much for being conservative), and that bubble has yet to burst.

    when it does, or before it does... the US will likely fall into a new great depression, bringing the world with it.

    so, your fav companies may be going out of business now, because this is still just the beginning of the crisis. give it time, and there may actually be no favourite companies left.

    and on that cheerful note...
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    Feb 10, 2009 3:53 AM GMT
    MeOhMy saidThe US is $45 trillion in debt (cumulatively), which is not the result of Bush, but successive administrations for decades


    Didn't the Clinton admin bring about the largest budget surplus in the history of the US, I remember reading if Bush had stayed the course and continued paying down the debt that figure would be zero by 2015?


    Instead he slashed taxes for the upper and middle class and started a multi trillion dollar war.....

    and then pillaged the money to pay the interest on the money he borrowed from infrastructure, healthcare and education......

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    Feb 10, 2009 4:12 AM GMT
    Meoh, I dont know whether to thank you for your answer, or break out in tears wondering what my future will hold based on Bushes fuck ups. icon_sad.gif
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    Feb 10, 2009 4:33 AM GMT
    MeOhMy saidThe current crisis was caused by Democrats first, and Republicans later. they are all culpable. and it aint over yet.

    oh and Nick, these companies are going down not because they threw their lot in with the republicans, but because the whole system is going down.

    Red is correct in pointing to the 1920s, but simplifying the reasons behind it.
    the Depression was not caused by unregulated and wild business practices, but it was caused by government sanctioning and facilitating of such practices. The Federal Reserve in the 20s inflated the economy by providing the liquidity and created the "boom" of the 20s, encouraging the ravenous spending and overproduction... it was an inflated boom, totally illusory, hence, why it collapsed.

    the current crisis was not caused by "unregulated free market fundamentalism" as we are most often told, but by Government-sanctioned market fundamentalism. in the 90s, when the dot.com bubble burst, the Federal Reserve decided to create the housing bubble to stave off and delay the inevitable crisis. then government agencies like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (the housing lending/loan agencies, etc) encouraged the private banks to make bad loans to high risk individuals, as the Fed pumped the money into the economy, inflating and creating the illusory boom in housing.

    bubbles burst. and the housing bubble burst. but it aint over, there is another bubble to burst... the debt bubble. the US is $45 trillion in debt (cumulatively), which is not the result of Bush, but successive administrations for decades, Bush just increased the debt greater than any other president before him (so much for being conservative), and that bubble has yet to burst.

    when it does, or before it does... the US will likely fall into a new great depression, bringing the world with it.

    so, your fav companies may be going out of business now, because this is still just the beginning of the crisis. give it time, and there may actually be no favourite companies left.

    and on that cheerful note...


    You are so right! Who knew that there were such rational thinkers on here?

    I always ask myself why people are so quick to trust the government and equally as quick to vilify corporations. Yes there is corporate corruption, but equally as much corruption in government (Blagojevich anyone?) The difference is that corporations don't take your money at gunpoint, the government does.

    Sorry to say, but the more that government gets involved, the worse off we will be. The companies that survive government won't be the great companies you love that offer the best products and services at the lowest prices, but those who give the most money to the right political campaigns. On top of that, when government bails out failing companies "for the good of the American people" it will save a few jobs short-term. However, it just encourages companies to become big employers, "essential" to the American economy, regardless of whether they make good products or even make any money (which is where worker's salary comes from, not the government. Well, maybe not anymore). On the other hand, these companies had a great example of fiscal responsibility... Wait, the government can't even control it's own finances and we want it to try and control finances for the entire American economy?
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    Feb 10, 2009 5:25 AM GMT
    All this is the result of irresponsiblity and lack of accountability from all sides of our government and from the people aswell. All we can do now is try to fix it. Lord knows if it'll work but we gotta start somewhere.
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    Feb 10, 2009 5:40 AM GMT
    bsubioguy saidSorry to say, but the more that government gets involved, the worse off we will be. The companies that survive government won't be the great companies you love that offer the best products and services at the lowest prices, but those who give the most money to the right political campaigns. On top of that, when government bails out failing companies "for the good of the American people" it will save a few jobs short-term. However, it just encourages companies to become big employers, "essential" to the American economy, regardless of whether they make good products or even make any money (which is where worker's salary comes from, not the government. Well, maybe not anymore). On the other hand, these companies had a great example of fiscal responsibility... Wait, the government can't even control it's own finances and we want it to try and control finances for the entire American economy?
    What a complete rambling mess. I think your economics professor gave you a passing grade just so she wouldn't have to listen to you.
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    Feb 10, 2009 5:42 AM GMT
    NiCkWoLf saidwhat my future will hold based on Bushes fuck ups. icon_sad.gif

    MeOhMy saidThe current crisis was caused by Democrats first, and Republicans later. they are all culpable. and it aint over yet.


    There are many people to blame and it is correct to blame the Bush administration in part, but not in full. I am not a Bush fan, but I would rather not propagate the ignorance that he created the world financial crisis. This was a Jenga puzzle waiting to crumble. I just hope it has fallen and that we can start lining up the pieces again.
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    Feb 10, 2009 7:18 AM GMT
    AMT87 said
    MeOhMy saidThe US is $45 trillion in debt (cumulatively), which is not the result of Bush, but successive administrations for decades


    Didn't the Clinton admin bring about the largest budget surplus in the history of the US, I remember reading if Bush had stayed the course and continued paying down the debt that figure would be zero by 2015?


    Instead he slashed taxes for the upper and middle class and started a multi trillion dollar war.....

    and then pillaged the money to pay the interest on the money he borrowed from infrastructure, healthcare and education......



    first of all... the Clinton surplus was a myth. it never happened. the national debt is made up of public debt and intergovernmental holdings. public debt is held by the public (treasury bills, bonds, etc). Intergovernmental debt is debt collected when the government borrows from itself (as in, from the Federal Reserve, social security, etc)

    CLinton oversaw a reduction in public debt, but a massive increase in intergovernmental holdings, which did not even out, resulting in an increased total national debt each year.

    also, the debt numbers of $45 trillion is related to not simply national deficit, but total government, corporate and personal debt. so even if Clinton reduced the debt and created a surplus (which he did not, its only a surplus by conveniently removing or "forgetting" massive variables in the debt system), he still oversaw a period in rapid expansion of corporate and personal debt.

    all the evidence you need is to look at the standards of livings of Americans, and even canadians and all people of the western industrialized world over the past 5 decades. the standard of living has drastically fallen, as people survive off debt, credit, bank, etc... even with two parents constantly working in a family, it is hard to make ends meet, this was not always the case. the middle class is evaporating, and has been for several decades, and yet... we still find it viable to say that the 90s were a period of economic success and prosperity.... for whom, exactly?

    here is a helpful link:
    http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

    Note: this was not the source of my information, but i did a quick google search to see if there was something useful as a sort of introduction. hope it helps
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    Feb 10, 2009 9:58 AM GMT
    Hmmmm if we hit another Depression, what will we do?

    Anyone know what actually ended the Great Depression? A famous event which occured at an island in Hawaii on Decemeber 7th 1941.


    In today's terms... compared to the 1930's and 1940's... it's kinda interesting and scary to make connections and predictions.
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    Feb 10, 2009 10:00 AM GMT
    NiCkWoLf saidNow i know this is information yall can get on yahoo, but this popped up this morning when I was getting ready.... Now we all know the United States is at this point in time royally fucked and all companies are hurting. To be honest, I considered most of these companies shutting down, the U.S. trimming the fat, no big deal. Example: Mervyns, Circuit City, BFD right???! But this morning.... this morning I see that Loehmann's clothing retailer, my personal go to for high end fashion at low prices, and Landry's Restaurants which operates Rainforest Cafe, one of my favorite chain restaruants is close to going under!!!! WTF!!!! it's one thing when companies I dont give a shit about disappear, but Loehmans? WHY GODicon_exclaim.gifWHYicon_exclaim.gificon_question.gif
    Its sad, but I think they did it to themselves.
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    Feb 10, 2009 10:00 AM GMT
    Concerning the national debt...

    Didn't we just finish paying off our debts from the American Civil War a few years ago? lol
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    Feb 10, 2009 10:28 AM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    bsubioguy saidSorry to say, but the more that government gets involved, the worse off we will be. The companies that survive government won't be the great companies you love that offer the best products and services at the lowest prices, but those who give the most money to the right political campaigns. On top of that, when government bails out failing companies "for the good of the American people" it will save a few jobs short-term. However, it just encourages companies to become big employers, "essential" to the American economy, regardless of whether they make good products or even make any money (which is where worker's salary comes from, not the government. Well, maybe not anymore). On the other hand, these companies had a great example of fiscal responsibility... Wait, the government can't even control it's own finances and we want it to try and control finances for the entire American economy?
    What a complete rambling mess. I think your economics professor gave you a passing grade just so she wouldn't have to listen to you.


    It's basic free market economics, and it does work. State run economies are historically notoriously inefficient, stagnant, and short lived. That is what we are moving towards.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Feb 10, 2009 10:56 AM GMT
    We are witnessing the crash and burn of the cut taxes and Gov't is the bad guy politics that reared its ugly head when Ronald Reagan came into power

    It is the republican led Grover Norquist model that you shrink government so much that it becomes ineffective
    so you can kill it way of doing business
    where the treasury is looted at the expense of the middle class
    where the top 1% holds 50% of the assets????
    This is the United States that we want?
    The democrats sat by and let it happen but this is the republican credo
    You saw it with your own eyes over the last 8 years
    and they are STILL doing it today????

    MORE tax cuts?
    Are you freakin' kidding me?
    Like they helped before?
    Time to get a clue .... we need the republicans that remain out of there so we can clean up this toxic waste of a mess they made
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    Feb 10, 2009 1:13 PM GMT
    People on RJ give politicians far too much credit or blame for the economy. I would recommend everyone spend some quality time reading the business oriented websites such as Bloomberg.com, The Financial Times or The Economist, to find out some of the reasons why the world economy is now in the toilet.

    As for these particular companies, they probably had financial issues before the latest recession which pushed them over the edge.

    Almost all companies are faced with a "perfect storm" of plummeting demand from consumers (who are scared and have too much debt) and very tight credit markets due to banks losing billions of dollars.
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    Feb 11, 2009 3:22 AM GMT
    cjcscuba1984 saidHmmmm if we hit another Depression, what will we do?

    Anyone know what actually ended the Great Depression? A famous event which occured at an island in Hawaii on Decemeber 7th 1941.


    In today's terms... compared to the 1930's and 1940's... it's kinda interesting and scary to make connections and predictions.



    interesting and scary indeed... and good point.
    unfortunately, i think it will be a repeat of what got us out of the last one... although, this time, i think we (the west) are the bad guys, the aggressors.

    but yes, thats where i think it is going to... another world war. and it will probably start with Iran, as in... if anyone (Israel, US) take military action against Iran, China and Russia won't just sit there like they did with Iraq.

    and on that happy note, cheers!
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    Feb 11, 2009 5:26 AM GMT
    I think you are right about the debt bubble, but I would say it is broader - it's the 'Financial Sector' bubble.

    I think that we would have the best increase in standard of living if the financial sector was made part of the government - it is a function of government to provide a trusted currency usable for all transactions and enforced by the power of the state.

    If big purchases need to be made, let the government provide the capital to finance them. The government can outsource the financing and banking functions to private firms, but they have to operate on a non-profit basis - because taking the cost of money out of the equation as much as possible will give consumers the most quality of life for their hard labor.

    Interest rates can be tied directly to the inflation of the dollar. If it is 1.87% for the year, that's the interest rate the government charges. The add'l charge to cover cost to run the banks would be figured not on the need for marble floors, advertising departments and CEO bonuses, but on cheap but secure office rental, standard forms, clerk salaries and productiving bonuses for front-line staff.

    But what about all the rich people who want to grow their money by lending it? Sorry. Force them to lend in competition with the gov't rates - which will be no way to increase a fortune. Or, imagine that, they can buy companies or invest in start-ups.

    Rich people get what they put their money behind - good service company or good manufacturing company or profitable financial company.

    When they get excited about the latter - consumers suffer. And that's why we have a Financial Sector bubble.

    The goal of government in a Market Economy should be to provide the currency and limit by any means the cost of using that currency to allow exchange of goods and services. Adam Smith couldn't figure out the government's role, he just shrugged and said they should stand off to the side.

    And so continues today the Market Economists bewilderment about any role the gov't can play, so they say completely-disconnected-from-reality-and-history things like 'the gov't needs to do nothing - just stay out of the way of the free market'.