Do you think there are more gay men than we realize, or are there less gay men than we think...and most guys are straight?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 10, 2016 7:42 AM GMT
    In my attempt to wean myself off of gay dating apps, which are slowly distorting my perception of the gay male species...I decided to do more in-person approaching of men. Any guy I see who looks interesting whether gay or straight, I try to talk to them first. No expectation or agenda, but just to practice. Just to see what happens. Sometimes I'm bold, other times I'm more subtle. I don't go only for obviously gay men, but my gaydar sometimes send me over to straight guys 70% of the time (or gay guys who aren't into me). Why lord, why does it need to be so hard for me?

    Lately, my eyes have just been opened up as to how much of a minority gay men are, and then add gay BLACK...oh, you're talking about a rarity in some places. You just feel like a dummy. Everywhere you go, there's kids and families and men with girlfriends. I'm starting to understand why some gays anchor themselves to big gay neighborhoods like New York and San Fran. I'm so sick of feeling like the misfit single guy with no girl or kids. Yet, I don't fucking want a girl or kids either lol.

    However, I've recently had 2 experiences: I was at a hotel and a guy who appeared straight was asking where he could get high. Long story short, he was straight, but bi under the influence...so I fucked him

    Another experience, I made the first move on a guy at the gym because he was sexy, but also because I was visiting and knew I wouldn't have to see him everyday after. I waited until he got near me, then I asked if he was using a certain machine...then told him he had a nice body. From there, we exchanged numbers on the spot. I asked and he gave it to me. But then, later that day...after I responded back with some very mildly flirty texts, to "test him" without necessarily showing my hand, he told me that he wasn't gay or bi..but that he didn't have an issue with it. We stayed in touch for a few more days, but then he flaked.

    I wasn't mad at all, but It made me question life. Like damn, why can't this guy be gay? Lol. Why do I have to be gay? It seems like nowadays straight guys are more accepting of gays, but it seems like gays only exist in gay bars, mall department stores and phone apps. Of course that's not true...but why does it feel like we're so vastly outnumbered by pussy fuckers?
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    May 10, 2016 10:49 AM GMT
    I personally believe in the Kinsey scale. So my belief is that 10% of of the population exclusively like the same sex, 10% exclusively like the opposite sex, and the rest are bisexual to some degree, whether that be 50/50, 25/75, 10/90, etc.

    What I think you're experiancing is that the majority of bisexual men often choose women over men. This happenss for a variety of reasons. They want to start a family, have kids...basically be 'normal'. Because let"s not kid ourselves, it can be hard to be gay. It's much easier to date a woman and have a normal family. So when they have that choice, they choose the easier lifestyle. But that's just my theory.

    I've met a few straight guys who are secretly bi, and their masculinity/femininity had nothing to do it. It's shocking how many "straight' guys will mess around with you, given the chance. Which is why I believe this theory so much.
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    May 10, 2016 11:14 AM GMT
    Brannon said

    What I think you're experiancing is that the majority of bisexual men often choose women over men. This happenss for a variety of reasons. They want to start a family, have kids...basically be 'normal'. Because let"s not kid ourselves, it can be hard to be gay. It's much easier to date a woman and have a normal family. So when they have that choice, they choose the easier lifestyle. But that's just my theory.

    Yeah, there are some reasons why many gay men don't want to date bisexuals. And I'm talking about "dating", not "hooking up". That's one of the big reason why. And not to mention if they live in a conservative society. In other words, they (the gays) don't know for sure (whether the bi guys will eventually end up with women or not), but lots of them just don't want to risk it.
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    May 10, 2016 12:19 PM GMT
    I agree with what other people wrote. I feel like many are not always straight, maybe bisexual, but choose women because there is stability there when settling down. Gay scene is pretty promiscious and ranchy and unstable (in regards to relationship). Just my opinion.

    I understand what you mean about seeing everyone being in straight relationships and having families. I do catch some gay couples here and there but it's rare. At times, it does make you wonder about the world and feel a bit left out. But I don't really get down. People appear more happier than they really are. Everyone I know, either married or coupled, are miserable, except for one. So don't feel so down, there's a reason most that by 40, many people are divorced/single back on the market. It is what it is.

    In regards to your story, no offense, but it annoys me when gays want to try and hook up with "straight" guys. I understand you appeal, and being unsure of their sexuality, but some guys (not really so much you but others) are so fixated on trying to "convert" them or hook up with them when the opportunity arises. It gives gays a bad name and perpetuates a stereotype. It's like how straight guys are so insistent and pushy when trying to hook up with girls that are uninterested. Not everyone is into that. And it's inappropriate. Respect people and their boundaries. I write that because you wrote how he was bi when uder the influence. It's like you were just awaiting any opportunity to hookup. It's distasteful, in my opinion.

    All the best, man.
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    May 10, 2016 12:22 PM GMT
    FuzzyPecs28 said.
    ...but why does it feel like we're so vastly outnumbered by pussy fuckers?

    Because we are indeed outnumbered. Brannon above quotes Kinsey, putting us at 10%. Other estimates range around 3-5%. Nobody really knows for sure, but we are definitely a small minority. And when you take into account the guys who are closeted for various reasons (employment, family, social, etc), or are already taken, that doesn't leave you with a lot of available men. Finding gays where they typically congregate has always been a reliable tactic.

    Regarding your apparent negative views about being gay yourself, I wouldn't want it any other way for myself. I stupidly lived that other life, miserably, until I finally realized that wasn't me. We're happiest living the way we were made. Don't get caught in the "grass is greener" syndrome.

    As for gay population density, if that's important to you then a solution is to move. I live where it's not 10% who are gay, but closer to 70 per the last Census. And some claim it's even higher, due to underreporting. It's like this whole area is one big gay club for miles around. It's as difficult to find a straight guy as you say you're having finding gay ones.

    As any fisherman will tell you, if there's few fish in your lake, find another lake. Talking about it doesn't produce more fish. Nor more gay men.
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    May 10, 2016 12:49 PM GMT
    I live in a small college town, all engineering so nothing that tend to gather gay men, and there are A LOT of gay/bi curious guys.

    When I first got here, I used to think my gaydar was broke because of the amount of "gay vibes" I got from the students; but times goes by and I found out that they are actually gay or bi. Of course we're still a small minority, and everybody is in the closed, but it's definitely not so rare as the OP's view.

    In my opinion, guys today, specially in a college environment, are more open to being curious. Even if it's just until graduation.
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    May 10, 2016 1:02 PM GMT
    As more and more non-stereotypical men come out, are represented on tv, show their clear faces online, hold hands in public etc, we'll get closer to finding out how many of us are really out there. I came out pretty late and in my quest to find more masculine guys who shared my interest in sports I've run into a lot of "consistently curious" guys. Here in Austin, the number of bi/gay guys who are in relationships with women is eye popping.
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    May 10, 2016 1:13 PM GMT
    I only came out Oct 2014, and I've been absolutely floored by the number and different types of gay/bi men out there. Who knew they weren't all nancy boys with bent wrists and a lisp (not that there's anything wrong with that.)

    I believe as more people are out and proud, you will find more guys willing to accept that they are more than just bi curious, and are actually bisexual.
  • jeep334

    Posts: 406

    May 10, 2016 1:25 PM GMT
    I honestly find all of this fascinating. Accolades to everyone so far for their non-hostile and sincere ways you have presented your views.

    There is no doubt in my mind that men, of all persuasions, crave sex. I trained with a guy once for three months. He was hot, young and way over the edge with his requirement for sex. Although he was straight, the one thing he craved most of all was for the woman to finger his ass as they came close to cumming. My suspicion was that he really didn't care what was in his ass be it a finger of a woman, a man, a penis, a dildo or whatever. I also believe that this is not an uncommon desire. As men explore their own sexuality more and more, it will only lead to more and more unconventional means.

    While the OP's actions of fucking the guy after they got high might seem like something agreeable between two adults, it's only a quick fix, a band aid of sorts. I'm not suggesting that this method is all out of order, I'm only suggesting that it is simply a process and not lasting whatsoever. Therfore, back to my thought that men crave sex and satisfying that fixation quickly is high on their to-do list. But then it's over. And so is the 'relationship' as well as any long-lasting connection. Many, many men are satisfied with this situation but apparently not the OP which is understandable.

    I agree that you need to be at the lake where there is fish. It might even be in the same lake you're already at, only in a different part of the lake.

    Good thread. icon_cool.gif
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    May 10, 2016 1:43 PM GMT
    to the OP:
    why the rush to get into a relationship. Chances are if you really want something you will get it, than what. Just exactly what will you do with it?

    actually Kinsey was all about the 1940's and they were not math inclined back when dirt was rock. So; expect 3-5% general population to be gay, definitely not the 10% they said we were. It varies by location and time of day as well. The numbers are small, the 3% could feel like 10% on a good day. Limited gay dating pool.



    FuzzyPecs28 said... at a hotel and a guy who appeared straight was asking where he could get high. Long story short, he was straight, but bi under the influence...so I fucked him
    give up and just use grinder.
  • rdberg1957

    Posts: 661

    May 10, 2016 1:54 PM GMT
    Let's not misquote Kinsey. The Kinsey sample was not representative or random. 10% of the sample were found to have homosexual relations for 3 or more years of their lives. 4% were found to have homosexual relations for their entire lives.

    Counting is very difficult because many men make different choices at different points in their lives. Depending on which study you quote, 25-37% of men have a sexual experience with a man at some point in their lives. Most men never do.

    In the 1970's there was a great migration of men from rural and suburban America to urban San Francisco, LA, NYC, etc. Men moved to cities where they could blend in, meet other men, and belong. This was the time of the sexual revolution and straight and gay men alike were experimenting different ways to be sexual. Some men had sex often with many partners.

    HIV had a major impact and many men went back into the closet while others came out more. Personally, I hid in 12-step groups, trying to avoid an early death. It saved my life, but I also lost a lot.

    At 59, I still want a relationship, but I have lost the sexual exuberance of my youth. I have lost my gaydar for picking out men in public. When I came out, my gaydar was much better because gay men use to signify that they were gay through their choice of clothing and accessories. Now, I found it hard to distinguish gay from straight.
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    May 10, 2016 1:55 PM GMT
    There are substantially more "straight" men who like to suck cock and/or get fucked than the general population thinks. I live in an area where at least half of the men I've hooked up with were married to a woman, engaged to a woman, or dating a woman. "Straight" men who switch teams on occasion have great instincts in figuring out who's authentically discreet, and they tend to go all the way when they find someone they think they can trust.
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    May 10, 2016 2:13 PM GMT
    kzen64 said
    I only came out Oct 2014, and I've been absolutely floored by the number and different types of gay/bi men out there. Who knew they weren't all nancy boys with bent wrists and a lisp

    My dear, that's the very thing that kept me in denial for half my life. The stereotypical image of gays that existed in the 1950s and '60s when I was growing up. I wasn't anything like that, ergo, being gay myself (we called it queer, homo, fairy, fag back then) was the last thing that would occur to me.
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    May 10, 2016 2:17 PM GMT
    I respect trying to date more so from face to face interactions a lot more than apps and commend you for that, but some of the posts on here are just purely sexually driven to the point where it begs the question as to why even try to find guys in real life if it's just going to be diminished to sex? Just stick to online then, it's a lot easier.

    This also has nothing to do with whose gay, who isn't, number crunching etc, it has to do with the fact that is still painfully awkward to attempt to hit on another man, when it was shamed in most of our childhood to connect with other guys. Even now with straight guys, the ones that are even remotely attentive, emotionally connected to each other, and/or can show affection, are ones I consider to be pretty brave and abnormally healthy. For me, my ability to show base level affection for males in public is non existent because of my childhood, and ultimately the more comfortable you are just engaging with other guys because you purely enjoy interacting with them, and you're not attached to desperately wanting one to be gay and have sex with you, the more likely you actually will find someone.

    I see tons of guys who I know are into guys and would probably be into me in person, and there's something that always pulls me back. A part of it is how intimidating everyone feels I am in public, and I don't want to accidentally threaten anyone, another part of it is I don't assume people want to be picked up: maybe they go to bars for that and in real life they just want to do their tasks in peace. The last reason is that if I can tell you're into dudes from looking at you, i'm turned off. I'm attracted to guys who are into men, but are normal like any average guy gay or straight. It makes me feel more close to the world instead of feeling like i'm with someone who is only exposed to a tiny sub culture of life.
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    May 10, 2016 2:25 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    kzen64 said
    I only came out Oct 2014, and I've been absolutely floored by the number and different types of gay/bi men out there. Who knew they weren't all nancy boys with bent wrists and a lisp

    My dear, that's the very thing that kept me in denial for half my life. The stereotypical image of gays that existed in the 1950s and '60s when I was growing up. I wasn't anything like that, ergo, being gay myself (we called it queer, homo, fairy, fag back then) was the last thing that would occur to me.


    Yeah, I knew when I was 11 or 12 that I was attracted to both guys and gals. Fooled around a little with a best friend (male,) and guys weren't afraid of wiping it out and jacking off to the communal porn in our 'playhouse/fort' we had in the woods behind my friends apartment building. Then I fell out of a tree, broke my wrist and moved away just before turning 13. Then I added 11 inches to my height in one year and felt so awkward after that.
  • FitBlackCuddl...

    Posts: 800

    May 10, 2016 2:26 PM GMT
    "Do you think there are more gay men than we realize, or are there less gay men than we think...and most guys are straight?"

    "Straight/gay" are just human social terms...do not think either are real. ANY human can be attracted to ANY OTHER human, regardless of gender or age, depending on conditions.

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    May 10, 2016 2:31 PM GMT
    rdberg1957 said
    ...Personally, I hid in 12-step groups, trying to avoid an early death. It saved my life, but I also lost a lot.

    At 59, I still want a relationship, but I have lost the sexual exuberance of my youth. I have lost my gaydar for picking out men in public. When I came out, my gaydar was much better because gay men use to signify that they were gay through their choice of clothing and accessories. Now, I found it hard to distinguish gay from straight.

    Interesting life story, thanks for sharing. I don't know what a 12-step group is.

    My gaydar fluctuates. When I was single it was very accurate. I read a lot of things with a guy, from clothing, posture, gestures, vocabulary, vocal tones - it's the total man approach. Now that I'm monogamous I kinda turn my gaydar off, I don't really need it, except perhaps out of curiosity.

    I suppose gaydar is based on your need. The more you need it, the more refined it becomes.
  • jeep334

    Posts: 406

    May 10, 2016 2:55 PM GMT
    FitBlackCuddler said"Do you think there are more gay men than we realize, or are there less gay men than we think...and most guys are straight?"

    "Straight/gay" are just human social terms...do not think either are real. ANY human can be attracted to ANY OTHER human, regardless of gender or age, depending on conditions.



    This is right on spot. Good evaluation.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 10, 2016 3:03 PM GMT
    There are definately more gay men than we realize. I think it's about half for all sexuallities. I guess that now in the world most people say they are straight but of course they say that because of a fear of coming out. We should allow people to feel comfortable about themselves so they are comfortable coming out. It's sad that in many areas everywhere this does not happen.

    I think many people are still in the closet because of many reasons like getting fired from a job for being gay in many states etc. so when it comes to being online i understand why many guys dont show their face or are not out of the closet because there is a fear of coming out. I feel like we are getting to a better place as time goes on and we are seeing more sexualities on tv and in public.

    Seeing this is good for younger people too because it will help them learn about their own sexuality and that other people are the same. I didnt see any of that growing up so for a while i thought i had a "crush" on a girl but it turned out that im gay. Maybe i just didnt know the definition of the word "crush". Haha icon_eek.gif
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    May 10, 2016 3:10 PM GMT
    rdberg1957 said
    At 59, I still want a relationship, but I have lost the sexual exuberance of my youth. I have lost my gaydar for picking out men in public. When I came out, my gaydar was much better because gay men use to signify that they were gay through their choice of clothing and accessories. Now, I found it hard to distinguish gay from straight.

    I was 55 when my first partner died. I was destroyed. It took an interventions by gay friends to drag me out of my office in which I had holed up for months. And to clean my kitchen, untouched since January 1st, and take down the Christmas tree and other decorations, now being mid-April.

    But thanks to them I snapped out of it. And realized I needed to live again. And started dating.

    I moved from North Dakota, with its memories of my partner's death, to Texas for a while. Where I had met my late partner and previously lived for 4 years.

    But Texas was too homophobic and uninteresting, so I next tried South Florida. Another place I've known a long time, since 1973.

    And met a guy who proposed to me after 6 months of dating. Me then being 58. I accepted, and we're now together 8 years.

    So at 59 I wouldn't write yourself off. My own husband, who was older than you when he proposed to me, had also lost a partner to AIDS.

    Not that you have lost anyone, but that's often considered the final curtain for having any more gay partners. Well, it wasn't for us. If we could both overcome those double obstacles then you can do it at 59, if you want it. Just letting you know there's some precedent for it.

    Don't give up yet!
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    May 10, 2016 3:40 PM GMT
    Yeah for older guys finding real relationships. I just got engaged several weeks ago to my guy. We're together 1 year come this Thursday.

    When I met him, I was already swearing off hookups and young guys. Young guys just were carrying to much drama. Then this 24 year old guy brought over his 19 year old friend to party and have a little fun. Didn't work out as planned as the 24yo got super jealous that the 19yo was paying more attention to my roommate at the time, and that was only sitting on his lap.

    A week later the 19yo needed a place to chill out and collect his thoughts, he had some traumatic events occur to and around him. He came over, and has been with me ever since.

    A serious, committed, long term relationship was the last thing I was looking for. I was still getting divorced from my wife of 21 years.
  • LJay

    Posts: 11612

    May 10, 2016 3:44 PM GMT
    TO23 saidI respect trying to date more so from face to face interactions a lot more than apps and commend you for that, but some of the posts on here are just purely sexually driven to the point where it begs the question as to why even try to find guys in real life if it's just going to be diminished to sex? Just stick to online then, it's a lot easier.

    This also has nothing to do with whose gay, who isn't, number crunching etc, it has to do with the fact that is still painfully awkward to attempt to hit on another man, when it was shamed in most of our childhood to connect with other guys. Even now with straight guys, the ones that are even remotely attentive, emotionally connected to each other, and/or can show affection, are ones I consider to be pretty brave and abnormally healthy. For me, my ability to show base level affection for males in public is non existent because of my childhood, and ultimately the more comfortable you are just engaging with other guys because you purely enjoy interacting with them, and you're not attached to desperately wanting one to be gay and have sex with you, the more likely you actually will find someone.

    I see tons of guys who I know are into guys and would probably be into me in person, and there's something that always pulls me back. A part of it is how intimidating everyone feels I am in public, and I don't want to accidentally threaten anyone, another part of it is I don't assume people want to be picked up: maybe they go to bars for that and in real life they just want to do their tasks in peace. The last reason is that if I can tell you're into dudes from looking at you, i'm turned off. I'm attracted to guys who are into men, but are normal like any average guy gay or straight. It makes me feel more close to the world instead of feeling like i'm with someone who is only exposed to a tiny sub culture of life.


    Amen.
  • LJay

    Posts: 11612

    May 10, 2016 3:47 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    rdberg1957 said
    ...Personally, I hid in 12-step groups, trying to avoid an early death. It saved my life, but I also lost a lot.

    At 59, I still want a relationship, but I have lost the sexual exuberance of my youth. I have lost my gaydar for picking out men in public. When I came out, my gaydar was much better because gay men use to signify that they were gay through their choice of clothing and accessories. Now, I found it hard to distinguish gay from straight.

    Interesting life story, thanks for sharing. I don't know what a 12-step group is.

    My gaydar fluctuates. When I was single it was very accurate. I read a lot of things, from clothing, posture, gestures, vocabulary, vocal tones - it's the total man approach. Now that I'm monogamous I kinda turn my gaydar off, I don't really need it, except perhaps out of curiosity.

    I suppose gaydar is based on your need. The more you need it, the more refined it becomes.


    Gee, Unca Bob, I am surprised. a 12-step group is one that bases behavioral change on a progression of steps, like Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, etc.
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    May 10, 2016 5:22 PM GMT
    look at the population distribution as in skin color. they can not hide like gay men. Black citizens are about 14%, maybe 3x the number of gay men. All good. The issue is where you work, live how many people are black if not your self. The restaurants and bars where you hang out. Your school whatever...

    the population of gay men will vary like this.

    close your eyes, can you tell who is black or white. Likely but how good are you at this?
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    May 10, 2016 5:50 PM GMT
    Im not sure there is really any way to accurately assess or gauge numbers on sexual orientation. I do, however, think most people fall somewhere in between homo and hetero, that is to say, more bisexual people than both the others.