Untold history - '' It was for us as if the Lord had send us the angels''

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    May 27, 2016 5:18 PM GMT



    While the most of people sees nazis as nothing but pure evil, In Eastern Europe nazis are still remembered and those easterner Europeans who fought in the world war 2 - respected. Since most of the world only knows about bad doings of nazis, they have no clue that for Eastern Europeans nazis, although temporalry, freed them from horrors of communists which by comparison was far worse than nazi regime. So those Balts and Ukrainians who fought on the nazi side for their countries are not exactly honored, but are seen as brothers, sons, friends and fathers, who were lost in WW2 and deserve to be remembered.

    Of course jewish and Russian media are twisting that part of the history and trying to make Eastern Europe as nazis that glorify Hitler, but truth will not be untold, eastern European people remember fallen soldiers on nazi side, because they fought against communists and for their independence not for what Hitler stood for.

    6 million jews were killed in WW2, it has been reminded and repeated over and over again, but how many of you know that in Ukraine alone, in just one winter, more than 7 million ukrainians were starved to death by Stalin?
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    May 27, 2016 6:04 PM GMT
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    May 27, 2016 6:08 PM GMT
    theantijock said



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    May 27, 2016 8:46 PM GMT
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    May 28, 2016 4:02 PM GMT
    Bonaparts saidtruth will not be untold


    ...but we can always rely on you to twist it, in your lame attempts at attention-seeking.

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    May 28, 2016 4:09 PM GMT
    ^ ignorant, spoiled and bitter as always

    Everything I presented here is a part of history and resonates till this day, whether your uneducated brain accepts it or not.
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    May 28, 2016 4:21 PM GMT
    Bonaparts said
    Everything I presented here is a part of history and resonates till this day, whether your uneducated brain accepts it or not.


    No, some of it is history, to which you have added your own idiotic spin, in a pathetic attempt to stir up a bit of outrage. Lame.
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    May 28, 2016 4:37 PM GMT
    any facts or just your blah blah blah? what spin?
    and I think it is very disrespectful to those people who died from communist oppressions and to those who were brought into nazi side to fight against communism and yes to those who till this day sees Balts or ukrainians brought into nazi side as people who fought for their countries and independence and against terror of communism and till this day waffen ss legions are more respected than communists in Eastern Europe who are seen as traitors


    I don't even know why you commented here, you have no facts and nothing to say, you are not capable of having a constructive discussion, all you have is your subjective opinions about me, which is fine, but this is not the place, I made a thread how stupid are you, you can go there and express your inner conflict
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    May 28, 2016 5:19 PM GMT
    so it is possible to save the under educated citizens of Ohio?
    827bbb.jpg
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    May 28, 2016 6:24 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8:

    Whether you like Bonaparts approach or not, it is a fact that Russia, lead by Stalin, killed as many or more people of specific ethnicities and 'persuasions (ie., gay, gypsy, intellectual, Jewish, etc.) in WW2, and especially after WW2.

    I think the thing to remember here is that the US would have attacked the country which attacked Britain - whether it would have been Russia or Germany. Remember, in the late 1930s and early 1940s, there were many economically and politically connected people in the US who actually supported Nazi German - check out the Heast papers' coverage of Germany at those times. And don't forget all the scientific and research and propaganda people from Nazi Germany who were brought very silently to the US after the war. Isn't it rather 'funny' that our government gave refuge and cover to so many of our declared enemy? Our government has a history of using military and economic means to gain/keep its advantage. Look to the National Security Council papers from the 1940s and early 1950s, which have been declassified, to see the actual reasoning and ideology used to set US foreign policy in post-WW2 America. Those papers reveal a much more sinister side to US government foreign policy. It isn't about 'freedom', 'democracy', or 'helping the oppressed'. Our foreign policy has been one to increase America's economic influence throughout the world, even if it meant using a dictator or two, or overthrowing democratically elected governments (which happened to be too 'Leftist' for the USA) and installing our own puppets (think Iran, think Central America, think South America, think Philippines).

    US history isn't as 'great' as many want to colour it. It is full of bad decisions, less-than-ideal 'solutions', and actions which are directly opposite all the rhetoric we hear during campaign speeches and the 'fight' in DC. The US is not a promoter of democracy and freedom - we export that which gives us control and protects US corporations. And the latter now feel so high and mighty that they don't believe they should pay taxes for the services our US military provides in giving them access to markets.
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    May 28, 2016 9:42 PM GMT
    ^
    I appreciate your considered and balanced comments above and I don't disagree with any of them.

    If Bonaparts' intention was merely to give us a history lesson, I wouldn't have a problem with that. As usual, however, you only have to read his comments to see there is an ulterior (and unpleasant) agenda at play here. If I were feeling charitable, I might speculate that his clumsy and crass presentation of the 'facts' in this instance may be down to English not being his first language (though, oddly enough, his English comprehension and usage appear to be near-perfect when it comes to shit-stirring and throwing insults around).
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    May 28, 2016 9:56 PM GMT
    what agenda? why are you accusing me without any ground? Where are your '' facts'' ? All you are capable of is making your subjective assumptions about me and NOT A SINGLE WORD about the topic, ridiculous. And it is appearS not appear, not so perfect in english yourself are you
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    May 29, 2016 1:31 AM GMT
    CrabNebula saidWhether you like Bonaparts approach or not, it is a fact that Russia, lead by Stalin, killed as many or more people of specific ethnicities and 'persuasions (ie., gay, gypsy, intellectual, Jewish, etc.) in WW2, and especially after WW2. ...

    I wouldn't argue against any of this. But it sounds like you're trying to make the argument that two wrongs make a right, which would be inexcusable. It's plain and simple; the Germans were the master planners of and orchestrated the holocaust.
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    May 29, 2016 5:57 AM GMT
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    Jun 02, 2016 2:48 AM GMT
    LumpyOatmeal:

    I'm not arguing for 2 wrongs making a right. But to point at Nazi Germany and their campaign to exterminate Jews, gays, gypsies, etc. and claim they are the bad ones, while turning a blind eye to all the similar actions taken by our government and citizens in the past 300 years, is to ignore our role in creating the world's current political environment. Estimates of 30-50+ million Native Americans in the 1600-1700s, and how many now ? All those deaths virtually attributable to the colonists and then the US government. Sept. 8, 2000, Kevin Gover, head of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, formally apologized for the department's participation in the "ethnic cleansing" (quote from Gover's speech) of the Western Tribes.

    My main point is we can't really call the kettle black, especially as we continue to pursue our current path/brand of foreign policy. It isn't easy to admit to our mistakes, but it seems to be even harder for our politicians to turn away from policies which only give us black eyes and make us the world's largest hypocrite.
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    Jun 03, 2016 12:08 AM GMT
    CrabNebula saidI'm not arguing for 2 wrongs making a right. But to point at Nazi Germany and their campaign to exterminate Jews, gays, gypsies, etc. and claim they are the bad ones, while turning a blind eye to all the similar actions taken by our government and citizens in the past 300 years, is to ignore our role in creating the world's current political environment. Estimates of 30-50+ million Native Americans in the 1600-1700s, and how many now ? All those deaths virtually attributable to the colonists and then the US government. Sept. 8, 2000, Kevin Gover, head of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, formally apologized for the department's participation in the "ethnic cleansing" (quote from Gover's speech) of the Western Tribes.

    My main point is we can't really call the kettle black, especially as we continue to pursue our current path/brand of foreign policy. It isn't easy to admit to our mistakes, but it seems to be even harder for our politicians to turn away from policies which only give us black eyes and make us the world's largest hypocrite.


    So because of how early Americans, descended of Europeans, treated Native Americans, that's calling the kettle black 100s of years later? Does that mean that Americans today can't judge and fight the sex slave industry because of southern plantations? How does one thing make invalid the other? How about if the champion fighting human trade today in the courts happens to live a sexual slave/master fantasy in bed? Does his sex life invalidate his professional efforts?

    I think that on one hand, we can judge things separately but even if you're looking at some continuum, then isn't there a bit of relativity to consider as well, or would you say that someone who justifies (I'm not one of them) capital punishment by using injection has no right to call hanging, drawing and quartering barbaric? How about microsurgery today which operates through a smaller hole, can it not judge rib spreaders, because, well, a little prick is invasive too?
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    Jun 10, 2016 5:43 PM GMT
    We fight the sex slave trade and human trafficking, while US corps employ/use sweat factories in other countries for production. US corps buy fish from foreign vendors who use slave labor to catch and process said fish. Those corps knowingly admit they are aware of the slave labor, but just can't seem to bring themselves to the point of not buying the cheap fish - after all, who in America would pay for a product that had to support a real living wage to produce the product? We all want our food and goods as cheap as possible, and slaves provide the cheapest labor.

    Our government supports other countries who practice ethnic cleansing. On the 'continuum', the US has policies and actions which land on both sides of the fence, so whether you look back 1 day, 1 year, 100 or 300 years, it's hypocritical for us to call the kettle black.

    As to your question about a sex slave fantasy in bed, note the key word here - fantasy. To fulfill the fantasy, it takes at least 2 people who agree on all the parameters of the fantasy and acting it out - including a possible key word that can stop the whole scenario if it goes too far. I doubt one of the slave laborers has agreed to the parameters of her/his enslavement, let alone has a key word which can end the whole 'scenario' if it goes too far.