Palestinian Student Activist Jailed by Palestinian Authority for Calling the PA Rotten

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    Jun 06, 2016 12:32 AM GMT
    https://electronicintifada.net/content/jailed-calling-palestinian-authority-rotten/16871Kifah Quzmar was at a café in downtown Ramallah when a few men followed him to the toilet. After grabbing him, they dragged him out to a car with a yellow Israeli license plate.

    The men, it soon transpired, were undercover police working for the Palestinian Authority. They apprehended Quzmar at the West Bank café on 11 May because of comments he had made on Facebook...
    160528-kifah-quzmar.jpg?itok=AP7-G-Xj×t

    ...Palestinian scholar Abdel Sattar Qassem argued that such arrests expose the moral bankruptcy and illegitimacy of the PA and its leadership.

    Qassem, a political science professor at An-Najah University in the West Bank city of Nablus, has himself been recently arrested for speaking out against the PA.

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  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Jun 06, 2016 4:01 AM GMT
    GymFreak saidPalestinian Authority (Fatah) is Israel's little ninja ("car with a yellow Israeli license plate")... I can see why a lot of Palestinians are Hamas supporters.

    Right, because Gazans have so much more rights and political freedoms than the Palestinian Arabs living under PA rule.
    NOT.

    Kifah Quzmar, who's a pretty good looking guy (GF would normally point this out, but here he hates Israel more), is not a Hamas supporter.

    The arrest was made in Area A, which is under PA security control.
    This has nothing to do with Israel.

    (The throw away line - to which GF clutches - about yellow Israeli license plates is not repeated by other media sources and is completely meaningless. He was arrested by PA security services for insulting the PA authorities and was held in a PA jail. He has since been released - by a PA judge - on bail.)

    Why does GF consider the PA to be Israel's puppet?
    For the same reason AyaTrolLiar founcer considers them "quislings".
    Because Abbas (perhaps realizing that violence kills more Palestinian Arabs than Israeli Jews) has pursued peace rather than violence.
    They're against that.

    Let's talk peace: The two-state solution
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4180210
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    Jun 06, 2016 3:51 PM GMT
    I'm with the OP (crazy as he is). The PA has been exposed over and over again as a vicious racket, living the high life at the Palestinians' expense. It's no different to any of the other US-supported tyrannies ("moderates") in the region, except that its function primarily is to serve as Israel's prophylactic* in the Occupied Territories, policing the occupation and ushering in an era of "permanent" "neo-colonial dependency", to quote Israel's former chief negotiator with the Palestinians and foreign minister during the Oslo "peace process" Shlomo Ben-Ami.

    * The analogy is not mine. It was Moshe Dayan (considered among the more liberal Israeli leaders in regard to the Palestinians) who, before the Oslo fix, advocated that the Palestinians be forced to "live like dogs" under occupation, conjuring the horrific imagery of rape (of a little girl by a dirty Bedouin of course) to declare "You Palestinians, as a nation, don't want us today, but we'll change your attitude by forcing our presence on you."

    Mahmoud Abbas is about as dumb an Arab leader as one can get lumped with (which is why the US and Israel like him). Before him, it was King Hussein of Jordan, the "plucky little king", who was all the rage among Western "liberals".

    Gaza has for decades been poor and massively overpopulated (80% of its families don't originate there), and for almost 10 years has been languishing under a debilitating blockade. The difference between this immiserated strip of land and the West Bank, where donor aid and a credit bubble sustain the fiction of an economy (or Salam Fayyad's economic genius, to give it its technical term) ought to be like night and day.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Jun 06, 2016 5:39 PM GMT
    JTheM saidThe PA has been exposed over and over again as a vicious racket, living the high life at the Palestinians' expense. It's no different to...

    Hamas, which AyaTrolLiar founcer embraces.

    Hamas "Prime Minister" Haniyeh is worth Millions.
    Hamas oligarch (now plutocrat) Khaled Mashal is worth Billions.

    This isn't knew. It was just as true in the 1970s, but then the PLO was engaged exclusively in attacking Israel and Jews worldwide.
    For AyaTrolLiar founcer, those were the good old days.
    When the PLO finally gave peace a chance in the 1990s, forming the PA, is when in his sick mind they became "quislings" and rotten.

    Let's look at how Orwell would pose this:

    Corrupt PLO attacking Israel/Jews = good.
    Corrupt PA seeking peace with Israel/Jews = bad.

    Corruption really isn't an issue in their good/bad equation.
    It's whether they attack Israel/Jews or not that is the distinction for such haters.
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    Jun 06, 2016 6:00 PM GMT
    mwolverine said
    GymFreak saidPalestinian Authority (Fatah) is Israel's little ninja ("car with a yellow Israeli license plate")... I can see why a lot of Palestinians are Hamas supporters.

    Right, because Gazans have so much more rights and political freedoms than the Palestinian Arabs living under PA rule.
    NOT.

    Kifah Quzmar, who's a pretty good looking guy (GF would normally point this out, but here he hates Israel more), is not a Hamas supporter.

    The arrest was made in Area A, which is under PA security control.
    This has nothing to do with Israel.

    (The throw away line - to which GF clutches - about yellow Israeli license plates is not repeated by other media sources and is completely meaningless. He was arrested by PA security services for insulting the PA authorities and was held in a PA jail. He has since been released - by a PA judge - on bail.)

    Why does GF consider the PA to be Israel's puppet?
    For the same reason AyaTrolLiar founcer considers them "quislings".
    Because Abbas (perhaps realizing that violence kills more Palestinian Arabs than Israeli Jews) has pursued peace rather than violence.
    They're against that.

    Let's talk peace: The two-state solution
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4180210


    You're way more informed on all this than I'll ever be but that sounds pretty much my take on this too. Though that the license plate would be an issue? I had no idea. To me that did nothing but indicate location of the car's registration, nothing that needed to be read into.

    What this story signifies to me is that they can't find peace even within themselves. And not that the old joke isn't that if any particular group didn't have someone to fight against they'd fight amongst themselves instead. But these guys just seem to fight in any and all directions under every circumstance. Are there maybe outside forces encouraging that, possibly, but even were that so, it's up to community to overcome. Or should we let the anti-trans idiots destroy LGBT community, or idiots complaining about our having fun at pride parade, even if those insecurities and subsequent infighting might be encouraged by the homophobes.

    But then to not have either faction of your side on your side? That you can't speak freely, or that a founder of Hamas's gay grandson should have to flee to America to escape the disgustingly termed "honor killing" by his own family? Yikes fucking yikes. Where's the peace in that? Six feet under?

    So what did he do instead? He converted to Christianity and took refuge in Jewish NYC lolol. Finally this Palestinian kid feels safe.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/hamas-executes-three-men-in-gaza-as-a-deterrent-against-rising-crime/2016/05/31/cf30dc1e-273c-11e6-8329-6104954928d2_story.html
    GAZA CITY — Gaza’s Islamist Hamas government executed three men convicted of murder Tuesday morning, highlighting its power struggle with the rival Palestinian faction Fatah and resuming a practice widely criticized by international human rights groups.

    Hamas said the executions would serve as a deterrent against rising crime in the coastal enclave.

    Human rights groups had attempted to stop the executions....

    “The deep flaws in the Gaza Strip’s justice system, with repeated reports pointing to the widespread use of torture, make today’s executions particularly egregious. The Hamas authorities must halt any further plans to carry out executions and immediately establish an official moratorium,” he said.

    Sari Bashi, from Human Rights Watch, said Hamas was using the death penalty as a deterrent instead of addressing the issues that have led to a rise in crime.

    According to Hamas, the executions were carried out after all necessary legal procedures had been completed. The sentences were not, however, ratified by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, as is required by Palestinian law....
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    Jun 06, 2016 7:25 PM GMT
    No one glorified Hamas (as if it's necessary to condemn the PA), but they DO have the merit of having been elected. The PA are usurpers.

    For the record, Mishal (head of the Hamas politbureau) is barred from entering Gaza, while Haniyeh (the last prime minister Palestinians ever elected) lives in a refugee camp among the people.

    There was also much corruption (and wealth) in the ANC and IRA.
    It takes a curious type of "liberal" to withold support from groups on such grounds.

    One reason Palestinians voted for Hamas was that they were actually LESS corrupt than the PA.
    And of course even that is as nothing as compared to the financial scandals that erupt in Israel practically every week.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Jun 06, 2016 8:16 PM GMT
    JTheM saidNo one glorified Hamas (as if it's necessary to condemn the PA), but they DO have the merit of having been elected. The PA are usurpers.

    For the record, Haniyeh (head of the Hamas politbureau) is barred from entering Gaza, while Haniyeh (the last prime minister Palestinians ever elected) lives in a refugee camp among the people.

    The trolls have all been apologists for and routinely defend Hamas, as we see here.

    For the record, Prime Ministers are not directly "elected".
    The last directly elected President is Abbas.
    Hamas won a plurality of votes (44%) in a legislative election.
    And then seized all power (including executive and judicial) in a violent coup.
    One that is only supported by 20% of Gazans, and of course by AyaTrolLiar founcer.

    Hamas is the party that has blocked further elections and the trolls have tried to justify that by saying that the electorate new Hamas and that they would suspend democracy and thus that is legitimate. (As if a minority of 44% can vote to suspend democracy?!)

    Hamas Commander, Accused of Gay Sex, Is Killed by His Own
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4188753

    Hamas admits it lied about Casualties... Yet some RJers still attempt to spam & perpetuate those propaganda lies-for-the-cause?!
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1217613

    Amnesty International: Rocket and mortar attacks by Palestinian armed groups is unlawful and deadly
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4030802

    Intellectual dishonesty hall of shame:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1443151
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    Jun 06, 2016 8:38 PM GMT
    The lies and half-truths (selectively presented for the cause) continue.

    For the record:

    M1. Prime Ministers are elected indirectly through parliament seats (of which Hamas got a majority). Salam Fayyad and Rami Hamdallah were APPOINTED Prime Ministers.

    M2. Abbas is seven years beyond his term, in what was supposed to be a figurehead presidency.

    M3. Hamas has no power to call fresh elections. That authority rests with Abbas, who is too afraid.

    M4. Hamas took power in a counter-coup, after foiling a plot by the PA, backed by the US and Israel (to try to regain by the sword that which they lost at the ballot).

    M5. As of current polling, more Palestinians want Mishal as their President than Abbas.

    I have to say I sympathize (very slightly) on point three however. Back in the day Fatah used to win all the Palestinian elections, which is why Israel had to ban them...
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    Jun 06, 2016 10:15 PM GMT
    “The number of human rights violations committed by PA authorities in the West Bank was significantly greater than those for which Hamas was responsible.” (Which is why the US prefers the PA and calls Hamas a terrorist organization)

    http://www.euromedmonitor.org/en/article/1142/New-report-documents-abusive-detentions-by-both-PA-and-Hamas-to-stifle-freedom-of-expression
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Jun 06, 2016 11:01 PM GMT
    ATLf> the last prime minister Palestinians ever elected

    Prime Ministers are not directly "elected".

    ATLF> Prime Ministers are elected indirectly through parliament seats

    Still wrong. Prime Ministers with the most votes get an opportunity to form coalitions.
    Haniyeh was NOT elected by the Palestinian people or parliament as Prime Minister.

    There was a power sharing agreement, known as the Mecca Agreement, brokered by the Saudis and violently broken by Hamas.


    ATLF> Salam Fayyad and Rami Hamdallah were APPOINTED Prime Ministers.

    In accordance with the Palestinian Constitution.
    Unlike the Hamas terrorist "government", which has no basis in law.


    The last directly elected President is Abbas.

    ATLF> [ignored]


    Hamas won a plurality of votes (44%) in a legislative election.
    And then seized all power (including executive and judicial) in a violent coup.
    One that is only supported by 20% of Gazans, and of course by AyaTrolLiar founcer.


    ATLF> a counter-coup, after foiling a plot

    Conspiracy theory.

    Again, the vast majority of Gazans reject that coup.
    Our Hamas apologists celebrate and glorify it.


    Hamas is the party that has blocked further elections and the trolls have tried to justify that by saying that the electorate new Hamas and that they would suspend democracy and thus that is legitimate. (As if a minority of 44% can vote to suspend democracy?!)

    ATLF> Abbas is seven years beyond his term, in what was supposed to be a figurehead presidency.

    Suddenly you are against the suspension of democracy?

    The office of President in the PA constitution is not that of a figurehead.
    For example, laws passed by the legislature must be ratified by the President (Article 80).
    The President also heads the Council of Ministers (120) and during a state of emergency (124).

    The President is the "supreme head" of the national security forces (126).
    Other armed militias (e.g. Hamas) are outlawed (153).


    ATLF> Hamas has no power to call fresh elections. That authority rests with Abbas, who is too afraid.
    As of current polling, more Palestinians want Mishal as their President than Abbas.

    If it wanted to, Hamas could hold elections just within Gaza. It doesn't want to.

    Abbas is 80. I don't expect him to run, assuming elections are ever held again.

    It is Hamas that has generally blocked further elections (which the useless idiots previously excused).

    Mishal only gets 5% of the vote.
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    Jun 07, 2016 12:36 AM GMT
    Very Ugly Idiot> Still wrong. Prime Ministers with the most votes get an opportunity to form coalitions.

    Still wrong I'm afraid. It has nothing to do with "votes" but seats. And Hamas, a party represented by Haniyeh in the legislature, won a majority, making a coalition unnecessary (though of course forcefully imposed). Even had Hamas gained only a plurality, the option of forming a minority government was theirs to take.

    It was violated by the PA who were hell-bent on launching a coup. Which they did.

    VUI> Conspiracy theory.

    Unfortunately for you, we have the documents.


    Salam Fayyad and Rami Hamdallah were APPOINTED Prime Ministers.

    VUI> In accordance with the Palestinian Constitution

    Wrong. Abbas violated the Constitution by appointing a new (unelected) government.

    What's stronger eh? Their contempt for democracy or their contempt for Palestinian law?


    VUI> [prattles on about the President]

    Yes but you are ignoring the nature of the elections, which were designed to be a transition to a parliamentary system of government. Of course, you don't get much more hypocritical than Abbas, who resented Arafat's use of an executive presidency to sideline him, but wielded it shamelessly when it came time to sideline those who had fairly beaten him.

    Again, the President has the power to unite the country and call further elections, not a few people, blockaded by land and sea, in tiny Gaza.


    VUI> Abbas is 80. I don't expect him to run, assuming elections are ever held again

    Abbas is like Chalabi and Dahlan. We won't be rid of him until someone hammers a stake into his heart​.


    (Correction) Ismail Haniyeh, the elected prime minister, would defeat Abbas if a Presidential election were held today by over 10 percentage points.

    As of now, 51% of Palestinians blame the PA for the breakdown and underperformance of the unity government, while only 20% blame Hamas.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Jun 07, 2016 3:57 AM GMT
    ATLf> the last prime minister Palestinians ever elected

    Prime Ministers are not directly "elected".

    ATLF> Prime Ministers are elected indirectly through parliament seats

    Still wrong. Prime Ministers with the most votes get an opportunity to form coalitions.
    Haniyeh was NOT elected by the Palestinian people or parliament as Prime Minister.

    ATLF> It has nothing to do with "votes" but seats. And Hamas, a party represented by Haniyeh in the legislature, won a majority, making a coalition unnecessary (though of course forcefully imposed). Even had Hamas gained only a plurality, the option of forming a minority government was theirs to take.

    Nuance, like math, isn't his forte. The voters didn't know the outcome at the time they voted. As he himself said, they were voting for "seats", not for Prime Minister.

    In some parliamentary systems the PM is voted for directly. That was NOT the case here.
    (If it was, Haniyeh might not have been elected.)


    There was a power sharing agreement, known as the Mecca Agreement, brokered by the Saudis and violently broken by Hamas.

    ATLF> It was violated by the PA who were hell-bent on launching a coup. Which they did.

    They did?!


    Salam Fayyad and Rami Hamdallah were appointed Prime Ministers.
    In accordance with the Palestinian Constitution.
    Unlike the Hamas terrorist "government", which has no basis in law.


    ATLF> Abbas violated the Constitution by appointing a new (unelected) government.

    Given the violent Hamas coup, Abbas had the power to appoint a PM and did so.


    The last directly elected President is Abbas.

    ATLF> the nature of the elections, which were designed to be a transition to a parliamentary system of government.

    Did you make that up, too? That the PA Constitution, which outlines these powers, was in "transition"?!


    Hamas won a plurality of votes (44%) in a legislative election.
    And then seized all power (including executive and judicial) in a violent coup.
    One that is only supported by 20% of Gazans, and of course by AyaTrolLiar founcer.
    Our Hamas apologists celebrate and glorify it.


    ATLF> [proudly so]


    Hamas is the party that has blocked further elections and the trolls have tried to justify that by saying that the electorate new Hamas and that they would suspend democracy and thus that is legitimate. (As if a minority of 44% can vote to suspend democracy?!)

    ATLF> [crawled back under his rock]


    ATLF> Abbas is seven years beyond his term, in what was supposed to be a figurehead presidency.

    Suddenly you are against the suspension of democracy?

    The office of President in the PA constitution is not that of a figurehead.
    For example, laws passed by the legislature must be ratified by the President (Article 80).
    The President also heads the Council of Ministers (120) and during a state of emergency (124).

    The President is the "supreme head" of the national security forces (126).
    Other armed militias (e.g. Hamas) are outlawed (153).


    ATLF> Hamas has no power to call fresh elections. That authority rests with Abbas, who is too afraid.

    If it wanted to, Hamas could hold elections just within Gaza. It doesn't want to.

    ATLF> [nada]


    It is Hamas that has generally blocked further elections (which the useless idiots previously excused).

    ATLF> [ignored again]


    Abbas is 80. I don't expect him to run, assuming elections are ever held again.

    ATLF> We won't be rid of him until someone hammers a stake into his heart​.

    Yup, that's how much he hates this "quisling", because he has forsaken violence.


    ATLF> Haniyeh, the elected [sic] prime minister, would defeat Abbas if a Presidential election were held today by over 10 percentage points.

    The usual half-truth fail. The very next sentence from his source:

    || if the competition is between Marwan Barghouti, for Fatah, and Haniyeh, the former would win by a margin of 18 percentage points

    Furthermore, while it is true that the present poll puts Haniyeh 11 points ahead of Abbas, this has not been the case over time. Right after the violent Hamas coup, Fatah polled 10 points ahead of Hamas, with Abbas beating Haniyeh by 7 points (Barghouti by a whopping 24 points).

    So we see why Hamas rejected new elections then, despite 75% of the people supporting that.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3381

    Jun 07, 2016 4:03 AM GMT
    JTheM said
    The number of human rights violations committed by PA authorities in the West Bank was significantly greater than those for which Hamas was responsible.” (Which is why the US prefers the PA and calls Hamas a terrorist organization)

    Yes folks, the "all around sh*tty excuse of a human being", as Sharkspeare noted, really is that dense.
    He thinks others will believe that the US supports, in a vacuum, the party allegedly responsible for more human rights violations.

    In reality, he couldn't care less about human rights violations except when expedient to bash others (case in point).
    Just as the AyaTrolLiar hasn't chosen his horse by who is less corrupt but uses that for vapid propaganda.

    He hates the PLO-turned-PA because they have forsaken violence and given peace a chance.
    He embraces, glorifies and is an apologist for Hamas because they are committed to violence.
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    Jun 07, 2016 4:11 PM GMT
    mwolverine said
    JTheM said
    The number of human rights violations committed by PA authorities in the West Bank was significantly greater than those for which Hamas was responsible.” (Which is why the US prefers the PA and calls Hamas a terrorist organization)

    Yes folks, the "all around sh*tty excuse of a human being", as Sharkspeare noted, really is that dense.
    He thinks others will believe that the US supports, in a vacuum, the party allegedly responsible for more human rights violations.


    The US has been supporting corrupt usurpers over democratically elected governments they don't like for about 70 years.

    But I suspect that's a "conspiracy theory" to hacks like you. icon_rolleyes.gif

    FACT: The US supports the democratically defeated party in Palestinian national politics.

    FACT: That party is more oppressive than Hamas, as well as being a lot more corrupt.
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    Jun 07, 2016 4:22 PM GMT
    Very Ugly Idiot> The voters didn't know the outcome at the time they voted. As he himself said, they were voting for "seats",

    Yup. Seats for a party to gain and form the government (including Prime Minister).

    But just look at the comedy:

    Very Ugly Idiot> Prime Ministers with the most votes get an opportunity to form coalitions.

    "Prime Ministers with the most votes"?
    Careful shill, you're almost letting the cat out the bag...

    Of course he couldnt get it right to save his life.
    Prime Ministers in parliamentary systems have the right to form the government if their party wins a majority of SEATS (nothing to do with "votes" - which is his red herring).

    Hamas didn't just come first in the election (eg. no one party gaining a majority but Hamas gaining a plurality - which would necessitate either a coalition or Hamas minority government), they WON the election, with a MAJORITY. That means they had been given a MANDATE from the Palestinian people to govern the territories.

    It was an act of remarkable generosity for Hamas even to agree to enter into coalition with the unambiguous LOSERS of the election, who the voting public had just rejected (Fatah).


    [The Mecca Agreement] was violated by the PA who were hell-bent on launching a coup. Which they did.

    Very Ugly Idiot> Conspiracy theory.

    Unfortunately for you, we have the documents.

    Very Ugly Idiot> They did [launch a coup]?

    Yup, as the documents show, Muhammad Dahlan's gang of thugs "moved toon soon."


    Very Ugly Idiot> Abbas had the power to appoint a PM and did so.

    False. Abbas did so without the consent of parliament, and was condemned by the framers of the Constitution for doing so.


    [T]he elections ... were designed to be a transition to a parliamentary system of government.

    Very Ugly Idiot> Did you make that up, too? That the PA Constitution, which outlines these powers, was in "transition"?!

    It was designed by Arafat to vest the powers of an executive presidency more accountably within the parliament. For a contemporary analog, just check out the changes taking place today in Turkey (except the other way around).


    As I said, Haniyeh, were Abbas not afraid to call a national election, would defeat the old man for the Presidency tomorrow.

    Barghouti (who opposes Abbas and would dismantle the PA, were he released from prison) is of course the most popular of all.


    Very Ugly Idiot> He hates the PLO-turned-PA because they have forsaken violence and given peace a chance.
    He embraces, glorifies and is an apologist for Hamas because they are committed to violence

    "Forsaken violence"?!
    I just quoted the violence these anti-democratic thugs commit against their own people.

    What creeps like Leeron like about the PA is that they've turned their guns on these same people, and now collaborate with the occupier for money. Which is why Israel recognises them even though they long ago lost the people's confidence. Just as Israel refused to recognize them (and favoured Islamists) back when the people voted for them.

    Israel of course had no problem recognizing Fatah after it had been bribed over to the cause (to create a "neo-colonial dependency" - per Ben-Ami), 25 years after the rest of the world... icon_rolleyes.gif