49 Years Ago Today, Israel Killed 34 American Military, and Wounded 171, When It bombed and Torpedoed the US Navy Ship Liberty in International Waters

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 07, 2016 4:01 PM GMT
    Normally, I would not post a non-gay post in All Things Gay, but it recently seems to have become normal in RJ. OTOH, out of the 205 naval personnel killed or wounded by Israel, the odds are that at least 15 of them were gay. Some of them were bound to be Jewish as well.

    And yet the USA government never stopped treating as a favored ally.
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    Jun 07, 2016 4:23 PM GMT
    theantijock%20engage%20stalker%20reducti

    Puppenjunge saidNormally, I would not post a non-gay post in All Things Gay, but it recently seems to have become normal in RJ. OTOH, out of the 205 naval personnel killed or wounded by Israel, the odds are that at least 15 of them were gay. Some of them were bound to be Jewish as well.

    And yet the USA government never stopped treating as a favored ally.


    But the guy posting anti-Israel into All Things Gay as well as digging up to spam old threads into News as well as spamming my picture everywhere as he just obsessively did above is the anti-Semitic OnTarget who I suspect is the anti-Semitic gymfreak.

    So by your posting this thread into this forum, as does he, while I have no idea who you are, your action seems to make you a bit of a douchebag yourself.

    Meanwhile:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
    ...Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[6] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity...

    ...the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 (US$22.6 million 2016) in compensation to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the final U.S. bill of $17,132,709 for material damage to Liberty herself plus 13 years' interest...[
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    Jun 08, 2016 6:09 PM GMT
    "It remains our best judgment that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was not made in malice toward the United States and was a mistake." Admiral Stansfield Turner, Director of Central Intelligence, Feb 27, 1978,
    uss%20liberty_zpsbgrs3csj.gif
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stansfield_Turner
    M. Turner (born December 1, 1923) is a retired admiral in the United States Navy and former Director of Central Intelligence and President of the Naval War College. He was formerly a senior research scholar at the University of Maryland, College Park School of Public Policy....

    ...He was a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford University while serving in the Navy, earning a degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics in 1950. During his naval career he served as commanding officer of an ocean mine sweeper (MSO), executive officer of the destroyer USS Morton (DD-948 ) in 1961 and 1962, and as commanding officer of the Guided Missile Cruiser USS Horne (DLG-30) [1].

    He later commanded Cruiser-Destroyer Flotilla 8 as a rear admiral, leading a task group in 1970-71 consisting of the aircraft carriers Independence and John F. Kennedy monitoring the Soviet Fifth Eskadra in the Mediterranean. Later he served as NATO Commander in Chief, Allied Forces Southern Europe, headquartered in Naples.
    800px-Admiral_Stansfield_Turner%2C_offic
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 08, 2016 6:31 PM GMT
    U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry
    FINDINGS OF FACT
    …the attack on LIBERTY on 8 June was in fact a case of mistaken identity…
    …there is no available indications that the attack was intended against a U.S. ship…

    Signed:
    Isaac C. Kidd Jr, Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy president
    Berard J. Lauff, Captain, U.S. Navy
    Bert N. Atkinson Jr, Captain, U.S. Navy
    Ward Boston Jr, Captain, U.S. Navy, counsel for the court


    USS%20liberty1_zpszrz2odlr.gif

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_C._Kidd_Jr.
    Isaac Campbell Kidd Jr. (August 14, 1919 – June 27, 1999) was an American Admiral in the United States Navy who served as the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO's Atlantic Fleet, and also as commander in chief of the U.S. Atlantic Fleet from 1975 to 1978. He was the son of Rear Admiral Isaac C. Kidd, who was killed on the bridge of the battleship Arizona during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
    Isaac_C._Kidd%2C_Jr._portrait.jpg
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    Jun 09, 2016 4:45 PM GMT
    theantijock said

    Puppenjunge saidNormally, I would not post a non-gay post in All Things Gay, but it recently seems to have become normal in RJ. OTOH, out of the 205 naval personnel killed or wounded by Israel, the odds are that at least 15 of them were gay. Some of them were bound to be Jewish as well.

    And yet the USA government never stopped treating as a favored ally.


    But the guy posting anti-Israel into All Things Gay as well as digging up to spam old threads into News as well as spamming my picture everywhere as he just obsessively did above is the anti-Semitic OnTarget who I suspect is the anti-Semitic gymfreak.

    So by your posting this thread into this forum, as does he, while I have no idea who you are, your action seems to make you a bit of a douchebag yourself.

    Meanwhile:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
    ...Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[6] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity...

    ...the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 (US$22.6 million 2016) in compensation to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the final U.S. bill of $17,132,709 for material damage to Liberty herself plus 13 years' interest...[


    Of course, I don't know who you are either, Hidden Member, although why hide? (And why all the stupid images? Is this madman Antijock, off your meds again? The usual suspects in Pro and Anti Israel propaganda on RJ are well known.

    Anyone who seriously believes what the CIA, State Department or the Israleis later said about the incident is a complete fool. The CIA of course never lies to the public, when it deigns to say anything. It happened; the Israleis intended the attack to wipe out US ship's surveillance capability at the time, and what was said afterward was a coverup. Are you really so naive as to believe that governments don't lie? I guess you believe Putin's story about Russian involvement in shooting down an airliner in the Ukrane; that the Pakistani ISSI never funded or aided the Taliban; that the US never bombed in Laos or Cambodia; that Israel doesn't possess nuclear weapons.

    That Israel gave money to victims actually absolves them of the crime? Under our laws, one cannot murder, and then be off the hook by paying damages. Only nations can do that. And it doesn't wipe the crime off the books. We can continue to aid Israel, after all, it is the USA's dog in the region, but the Generals/Admirals who collaborated on the strike against the Libery ought to be hanged. That used to be the usual punishment for war criminals.

    And finally, of course you believe Wikipedia - because it gets its "facts" straight from god - of course..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 09, 2016 4:52 PM GMT
    theantijock said"It remains our best judgment that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was not made in malice toward the United States and was a mistake." Admiral Stansfield Turner, Director of Central Intelligence, Feb 27, 1978,
    uss%20liberty_zpsbgrs3csj.gif
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stansfield_Turner
    M. Turner (born December 1, 1923) is a retired admiral in the United States Navy and former Director of Central Intelligence


    Right, CIA.

    The agency that always lies when it serves some purpose of it (That's what spy agencies do - It's in the very nature of their being) which is why no credibility should ever be given to their pronouncements.
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    Jun 09, 2016 5:26 PM GMT
    Your intent is now clear.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 5727

    Jun 10, 2016 6:36 AM GMT
    USS LIBERTY - FRIENDLY FIRE RESULTING FROM A TRAGIC SERIES OF ERRORS

    The USS Liberty was sent to the eastern Med to eavesdrop on an escalating situation: Egyptian president Nasser and his Syrian ally were not only sabre-rattling, but had ordered UN peacekeepers to leave and had advanced troops into a buffer zone and onto Israel's border. By the time the ship arrived, war was already underway.

    In an era of instant satellite communications, it's hard to comprehend that the US Navy could have trouble reaching one of its own ships. However, for stealth purposes, the Liberty relied upon a system that bounced signals off the moon (meaning there were lengthy stretches when no communication was possible). A total of 5 messages were supposed to be sent ordering the Liberty to withdraw 100 miles. A couple failed to be sent and those which were sent were not received. The US did have "steam valves" (secure phones) at the time - but they were all deployed in Viet Nam. Absent confirmation that the Liberty had received the orders, a Major at the JCS wanted to send the Liberty a plain radio transmission but this request was denied by the Deputy Chief of Staff at CINCUSNAVEUR/MJH.

    Indeed, prior to the attack, Israel inquired with the US and was told that it had no ship within a hundred miles of where the Liberty was. People who find it hard to believe that Israel failed to identify an American vessel should ponder that the US Navy itself had no idea where its own ship was.

    Independently, the Liberty's Captain (McGonagle) wanted to move the ship out of harms way (beyond the horizon), but the NSA operations officer advised him that this would reduce the ships eavesdropping (spying) ability by 80%. Unaware of the ship's mission, and cut off from his commanding officers, he was unable to correlate the importance of the mission with the safety of the ship and he opted to stay put.

    At 6am on 8 June 1967, an Israeli naval reconnaissance plane spotted the vessel and correctly identified it (using a copy of "Jane's Fighting Ships", a complete catalog of ships). However, the Liberty spotted the plane first and in order to fool it, temporarily changed direction.

    At the time, the Israeli Navy was a small organization of only about 5,000 people. In the 1956 war it had managed to capture an Egyptian destroyer, but in 1967 - while the Israeli Air Force was getting all the credit - all it had managed to do was almost bomb itself (yup, friendly fire). The Israeli Navy, headquartered in Haifa, wasn't yet part of Central Command (in Tel Aviv) and there was no secure communications between the two. When the ship was spotted at 6am, it was placed on a board - a physical board! By noon, the intelligence officer was off duty and the ship (the information being out-of-date) was removed from the board. No one who knew there had been an American ship present in the area was still on duty by the afternoon.

    Early in the afternoon (as the Liberty itself witnessed), there was fighting in El Arish (the northwestern tip of the Sinai peninsula). The Israeli army could see a warship on the horizon and assumed that this was the source of attack - as it had been the day before. So the Israeli army called in the air force for support. The air force alerted the Navy which dispatched 3 Motor Torpedo Boats to investigate. When they picked up the Liberty on radar, they saw that it was headed toward Port Said (in Egypt) at a speed of 28-30 knots (this was a calculation error. The Liberty was doing about 5 knots). Realizing that the MTBs could not acquire the target before it got away (and that such a speed definitely identified it as a warship), the Israeli Navy reluctantly called in the Air Force for help.

    Why reluctantly? Because there's competition between the branches and the Navy was running 3rd fiddle to the Air Force (which had already destroyed its Egyptian counterpart. The Army had liberated the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem. But the Navy had so far only succeeded in crashing 2 of its ships). If they thought they could have handled the situation themselves, the Navy would have done so (especially since the day before, due to radar echoes, the Navy had called the IAF for support and almost ended up having its own ships bombed).

    The IAF scrambled a couple Mirage planes with the authority to fire on any warships other than the 3 MTBs heading that way. Thus began the first strafing run. Then two Mystere planes arrived from the Sinai where they had been fighting tanks. They dropped napalm on the ship and fired 30mm guns. The IAF was attempting to get a plane with iron bombs out there to sink the ship (lest the Navy get the job done), but started getting concerned that there was no anti-aircraft fire. As they came around to attack from the side, in an attempt to target the boilers and disable the ship, the pilot identified the ship as "CTR-5". Actually, it was "GTR-5". But the pilot saw "C" - as in "CCCP", and thus the IAF concluded that it had attacked a Soviet spy ship.

    The Israeli Navy, off in Haifa, was still in the dark and steaming toward the Liberty even as the IAF was gloomy because they feared that now the Russians had an excuse to enter the war. The MTBs signaled the ship to identify itself (as Liberty's Captain McGonagle testified) and then the commander of the MTB (a veteran of a 1956 battle with an Egyptian destroyer) thought he saw signals reminiscent of an Egyptian ploy back then. Without Jane's (the Israeli Navy couldn't afford to put a copy on each ship) and merely a copy of an Israeli issued booklet listing only Arab vessels, the MTBs mis-identify the Liberty as the El Quesir. The Navy reported that it was engaging an Egyptian ship (to a sigh of relief at IAF/Army command center).

    Then the Navy says that it sees a red flag through the smoke. The gloom returns to the war room - it's Russian. Finally, the Navy makes a definitive and correct identification. The Israeli AF breathes a sad sigh of relief. Ironically, back in Washington, the same thing happens in reverse. Reports come in that a US Navy ship was attacked and torpedoed. The top brass is meeting to discuss this with President Johnson on the way to join them. Was it the Egyptians - or the Russians? It was a painful relief when the President walked in and announced that he had received word from Israel that it had mistakenly attacked the ship.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 5727

    Jun 10, 2016 6:37 AM GMT
    Some have argued that the pilots who first attacked the ship should have seen the US Flag. Yet both US and Israeli pictures from the scene show that smoke from the burning ship rose straight up - meaning there was no wind and the flag was drooping.

    Others have argued that it was a clear and sunny day. A perfect day, normally, for a picnic, except that on this particular day there happened to be a war raging. It should also be noted that even with much newer technology and communications, friendly fire between forces are still all too common today. In the first Gulf War, the US killed more British soldiers than Iraqi forces did - and a US jet shot down a couple of US helicopters. On a clear and sunny day, with their (painted) flags and markings visible.

    Israel had no motive to attack the vessel. Claims by James Ennes that it was trying to prevent the US from discovering plans to counter-attack Syria were deflated when the US declassified documents showing that Israel has already informed the US of its plans to do so. Claims by Peter Bamford that Israel was trying to cover up a massive massacre of Egyptian POWs is disputed by all of his own sources - except an anonymous Egyptian source which cannot be verified (yet there is no evidence of any such massacre). Claims Israel wanted the US to enter the war are problematic given that the war was progressing so well that it would be over on the 6th day, 3 days later.

    If Israel had premeditated the attack rather than responding to an ad hoc perceived threat, it would have used munitions suitable for sinking a ship (iron bombs, not napalm) and it could have attacked the vessel under cover of darkness.

    More than a dozen investigations have concluded that the incident was the result of a tragic series of mistakes - today used as a case study by the US Naval Academy.

    Every piece of information declassified in recent years (e.g. NSA transcripts of intercepted communications of Israeli pilots) supports this.

    Israel accepted responsibility, apologized and paid reparations.

    None of which prevents people, often feigning concern for US sailors, from muckraking this incident - nearly 50 years later - to demonize Israel. Sadly, these muckers usually support more recent attacks against the USS Stark and the USS Cole and are indifferent regarding the contemporary attack on the USS El Pueblo (the Liberty's sister ship, which suffered from some of the same problems/mistakes).