Harvard study debunks police shootings myth

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 11, 2016 10:23 PM GMT
    "What if the popular narrative about police racism that’s being pushed by Black Lives Matters and others in the wake of last week’s fatal shootings is based on unfounded assumptions? That’s the question we are forced to confront today after the publication of a new study conducted by Harvard University’s Rolando G. Fryer Jr. that shows there is no evidence that blacks are more likely than whites to be shot by cops."

    https://www.commentarymagazine.com/american-society/harvard-study-debunks-police-shootings-myth/

    What are your thoughts on that?
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    Jul 12, 2016 1:58 AM GMT
    The Harvard study is correct.

    Rudy Giuliani: "Of course black lives matter, and they matter greatly, but when you focus in on one percent of less than 1 percent of the murder that’s going on in America, and you make it a national thing, and all of you in the media make it much bigger than the black kid who’s getting killed in Chicago every 14 hours, you create a disproportion."

  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jul 12, 2016 4:44 AM GMT
    well that's not the narrative the main stream media is pushing icon_lol.gif
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    Jul 12, 2016 9:45 AM GMT
    possible simple play with numbers:
    blacks are 8-12% of the general population. Say if there were equally 200 white people shot and 200 black people shot a lot more black citizens are getting shot per encounter.

    no standard for reporting police shootings
    recently the Washing Post has taken it upon them selves to keep a data base but local police departments have lots of incentive not to report a shooting. Denver over the last 10 yeas has spent $30 million in compensation and this dosnt count legal costs. Just last year Denver had to pay out 4.5 million in a single case. Again dosnt include legal costs. No reason this stuff is getting reported.

    no reports on the quality of the Harvard study
    for example; remember Austin Texas University's Mark Regnerus study on gay parenting and again recall who paid for the study. Recall how small and phucked up the sample size was.
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    Jul 12, 2016 2:19 PM GMT
    To clarify, it's not so much a Harvard study as it is a working paper by a Harvard professor for the National Bureau of Economic Research. Its conclusions seem less definitive and more directional, self-admitting that its data base might be flawed but that using best practices, this is what it found with what it had.

    So what did it have and what did it find?

    With regard to shootings, it looked at about 4% of the population in areas serving more black people than average. It looked at only information made available by those police departments (and not by, say, a police department which might have had stats indicating otherwise) and then it looked only at police reports of incidents and not at what witnesses saw or what citizens involved saw or felt for that matter. Also, with regard to lethal incidents, it looked only at death by gunshot and not other deaths occurring while within police custody.

    The paper does not deny that a plurality of black men die by the hand of police (whether or not those deaths might be justified). Nor does it deny--but rather reaffirms--that in non-lethal incidents, more force is experienced by blacks and Hispanics than by whites at the hands of police. What is the surprising find of the study which ought not be removed from the light of these considerations is not that the study debunks any shooting myth as the title of this thread presupposes, but rather an oddity that while use of force is found to be racially determined in nonlethal actions, by the methods of study and the questionable data, there was determined to be no racial motivator in applying lethal action with regard to bullets.

    So, again, it doesn't say blacks won't be pulled over more in their cars, they will be. It doesn't say blacks and Hispanics won't experience more force by police than will whites in similar non-lethal circumstances, they will be. But oddly, when more blacks are shot to death than are white suspects as a percentage of their respective populations, they are killed without prejudice (at least according to the police reports). So that's the thing about this that many might not have expected.

    If I understand this right, it's not the over-abundance of killings which reveal discrimination, but it is the non-lethal actions which reveal discrimination.

    So, while interesting to ponder, this does not close the conversation by any stretch of the imagination.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 12, 2016 6:52 PM GMT
    Race is such an imaginary divide. I feel dumbstruck at any race oriented movement, negative, or positive, from any spectrum. It's an unnecessary distraction from the problems we face as.... A species.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Jul 12, 2016 7:21 PM GMT
    Garbage in, garbage out.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/11/12149468/racism-police-shootings-data"He wanted to know what happens between the moment a police officer stops someone and the moment he pulls the trigger — and how those sequences of events vary by race.

    But when people talk about racial disparities in police use of force, they’re usually not asking, Is a black American stopped by police treated the same as a white American in the same circumstances? They’re making a broader critique of the “greater structural problems” in society in general and the criminal justice system in particular. They’re saying that black Americans are more likely to get stopped by police, which makes them more likely to get killed...

    Controlling for variables is an extremely important thing in social science. It allows you to figure out which factors actually matter and which ones don’t. In this case, Fryer and his team have given us suggestive evidence that among major-city police forces, police in tense situations are not unusually likely to shoot black suspects. They’ve made a valuable addition to the literature. But it’s just that: an addition, not a discovery, and not the last word."


    The study 1) pulls data from only a few selected cities and 2) does not account for the fact that police are more likely to stop, pull over, harass, and detain blacks and is therefore useless until completed and peer reviewed. You can't extrapolate broad conclusions from an unfinished "study" with such a limited, selected sample and that doesn't control for variables. It hasn't debunked anything -- yet -- but Trumpublicans are always prematurely ejaculating.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Jul 12, 2016 7:41 PM GMT
    desertmuscl saidThe Harvard study is correct.

    Rudy Giuliani: "Of course black lives matter, and they matter greatly, but when you focus in on one percent of less than 1 percent of the murder that’s going on in America, and you make it a national thing, and all of you in the media make it much bigger than the black kid who’s getting killed in Chicago every 14 hours, you create a disproportion."



    Chicago has a lower per capita murder rate than plenty of majority white Republican jurisdictions in states with Republican leadership -- including Indianapolis, IN; Dayton, OH; Memphis, TN; South Bend, IN; Kansas City, KS; Wilmington, NC; and Chattanooga, TN.

    Of course, you'll never heard that from mealy-mouthed Trumpublican bigots like Rudy Giuliani, who prefer to scaremonger about black crime to hide the fact that most crime in America is committed by straight white males aged 17-44, who comprise less than 15% of the population while committing most of the crime.
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    Jul 12, 2016 9:37 PM GMT
    We saw it on FOX news so the Harvard report must be true
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    Jul 12, 2016 9:39 PM GMT
    Studies are not infallible and all data are subject to interpretation. The fact of the matter is that many of us look at black people. and black men in particular, with suspicion. Our values and beliefs dictate our behavior, and we must not pretend that our beliefs (sometimes nurtured by years of misinformation and irrational distinctions) can be easily changed without deliberate effort.
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    Jul 12, 2016 10:42 PM GMT
    desertmuscl saidThe Harvard study is correct.

    Rudy Giuliani: "Of course black lives matter, and they matter greatly, but when you focus in on one percent of less than 1 percent of the murder that’s going on in America, and you make it a national thing, and all of you in the media make it much bigger than the black kid who’s getting killed in Chicago every 14 hours, you create a disproportion."



    The Harvard study is correct....
    Are you being sarcastic?
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    Jul 12, 2016 10:44 PM GMT
    UMayNeverKnow saidThat's nothing new. Many of us here have provided links to numerous other studies that basically say the same thing. People gonna believe what they want to believe, the facts are irrelevant.

    You repeat a lie enough times and people will believe it's the truth.


    Two black men were killed by police last week.
    Name two white men that were killed by police in similar circumstances.